This primer aims to be a guide for new players on how to understand and analyze Dota 2.
For starters, why should we analyze and discuss strategy on Dota 2?
Right now, Dota 2 suffers from the absence of comprehensive metrics that tells a player if they're improving or not. Such a problem might never be solved at all given the nature of the game and the near-impossibility of finding a metric that clearly separates good teamplay from bad teamplay. But players often spontaneously ask other players to watch their games and give them criticism, and when this happens people suddenly become analysts. In fact, producing replay analysis has been a tradition since the original DotA, with sites like DotaCommentaries having tons of replay-analysis. I also wrote a lot of them on GosuGamers. Valve should definitely prioritize this now that the game was released. They must facilitate the existence of replay analysis and bring important features that would enable it, such as group replay watching and the ability to add annotations on replays. Not only would it help the players figure out if they're improving or not, but it would add value to the replay. People already buy tickets in order to have access to professional matches, but what if the replay is annotated by a pro-player or a very experienced player? There would be an even bigger incentive to buy access.
This primer started as something to help StarCraft 2 players avoid being mere strangers in a strange land, but it quickly grew bigger than that. The plan is to expand this based on feedback. Immediate plans are to list and discuss typical tactical decisions, discuss how to evaluate positions and whatever feels cool. For now, the objective is to cover the basics and introduce the most important vocabulary. If you think you can contribute or just want to help me make this look prettier, drop me a message and we can talk.
Also, I probably lied when I said this will be a "small" primer.
Many thanks to Decency for the help.
The three fundamentals in Dota 2 strategy
According to the Dota 2 Lore, there are four fundamentals in Dota 2. But, when we talk about strategy, there are only three.
Virtually every Dota 2 strategy can be broken down into varying degrees of these three fundamental elements: Push, Gank, and Farm. Each of these elements in various ways serves the purpose of managing the three main resources in the game: Gold, Experience, and Time. While Gold and Experience are something that teams want to accumulate, Time is a more subtle resource to manage. Furthermore, some strategies revolve around preventing the opposition from earning and well-managing these resources. It’s thus very important to properly balance the amount of time spent exerting pressure in each realm.
It's impossible to destroy the enemy ancient without destroying towers. This very fact makes every Dota 2 strategy, to some degree, a push strategy, since you're forced to take tower destruction into consideration. At the same time, without ganking, where you deter the enemy from accumulating resources and attempt to earn kills, it can be very hard to get into a advantageous position and win the game. Finally, without getting gold it is impossible to get anywhere in Dota 2. The specific mix of these three categories and the different tactical decisions are what makes strategies unique and different from each other, and make each game completely versatile from the start. It's impossible to talk about Push without mentioning Gank or Farm, but, for simplicity’s sake and to introduce the common vocabulary, let's talk separately (and in no order of importance) about each of these three categories.
The First Fundamental: Farm
and an introduction to the Carry
Farm refers to the whole process of obtaining and distributing gold to your five heroes. Dota 2 is a game where you have three lanes of creeps to kill and two jungles full of neutral creeps that also gives gold and experience. Consider two things: space to farm is limited, and some heroes are more dependent on items than others. This means teams need to allocate and distribute the farm to their heroes as intelligently as possible. Let's say you are running a push strategy and you need a certain item to start pushing, such as a Mekansm - that's a good reason to give priority to the hero that is going to get this item. Another example would be a teamfight-focused team allocating farm to an initiating hero so he can collect his Blink Dagger. Having to figure out the best way to distribute the items and finding possible windows of opportunity where your team is stronger than the other for some reason (let's say you manage to get an item advantage over the opponent that will last two or three minutes) is similar to managing your economy in SC2.
Usually, the highest priority hero in terms of farm is what we call the Carry. The concept of a “carry” is one of constant discussion and people will give you different answers of what a carry truly is, but the idea is that the carry is the hero that is going to win you the game if he gets really farmed. A carry hero is usually weak in the early game, but later on the game, with items that increase his ability to deal damage, carry heroes can become unstoppable. There are several examples of carry heroes and each one has its own flavor: Anti-Mage is really good against intelligence heroes, is very resistant to magic damage and hard to kill due to his ability to Blink; Alchemist earns gold very quickly, has a ton of Hit Points and helps his team with skills that disable or reduce the enemy armor; Phantom Assassin is excellent against physical damage due to her evasion and can execute heroes in a single blow with her Coup de Grace; Phantom Lancer is an army within a hero due to his illusions; Spectre has the ability to join a crucial teamfight from anywhere on the map; etc. Each carry hero has its own singularities, but the main factor is that a carry hero benefits more from items than a non-carry hero, typically due to scaling abilities. They can thus make better use of gold and have a higher farm priority.
There are also heroes which have deep impacts on the game, but aren't quite as strong as regular carries in the very late game. Such heroes are usually called semi-carries, because their ability to carry are limited. Heroes like Mirana, Slardar, Necrolyte, and Queen of Pain are good examples of semi-carry heroes.
Saying that the carry is the highest priority hero doesn't only mean he'll get most of the farm, but also means he will be protected by the other heroes. It's normal to see support heroes sacrificing themselves for the carry, or even teams playing 4v5 while the carry hero farms, reaching to the extreme "4-protect-1" where four heroes are entirely devoted to protect the all-important carry from the enemy.
Focusing on farm means you're threatening to overrun the opponent late in the game. How does one deal with this? There are different answers to this. You can, for example, simply farm more and faster than the opponent. Or you can just strike first, and this leads us to the next fundamental: Push.
The Second Fundamental: Push
and an introduction to the Support
Typically, what are referred to as "push strategies" are strategies which focus on destroying towers. This is valuable for multiple reasons: when you bring a tower down, your whole team gains gold, and the enemy loses a lot of map control as towers are important for controlling key points of the map. Many things help push strategies; some examples would be adding bonus armor, damage or attack speed to allied heroes and creeps (Vengeful Spirit, Beastmaster, Luna), the ability to kill creepwaves quickly and efficiently (Death Prophet, Keeper of the Light), skills that do a lot of damage to towers (Dragon Knight, Lone Druid, Pugna), and the ability to summon additional units to aid in a push (Enigma, Nature's Prophet, Lycanthrope, Chen). It is also very important to choose items properly when executing a push strategy. Those chosen generally share a few properties: they benefit multiple allies rather than just the wielder, and they are immediately cost-effective. A simple Ring of Basilius gives extra armor as an aura to allied creeps and makes them tougher to bring down. Items like Urn, Mekansm, and Arcane Boots give sustainability to the team, allowing them to stick around pushing instead of wasting time returning to the fountain to heal. Items like Vladmir’s Offering and Drums of Endurance give allies valuable auras for a small price. Offensively, Desolator and Assault Cuirass reduce the armor of enemy towers and thus can also assist with pushing.
A push strategy will focus on getting key items on their heroes and quickly building a gold advantage by destroying enemy towers while protecting their own. What triggers the start of the push is usually the timing on their key items, but many things can trigger pushes, such as a successful gank, a potential tower trade, or a key level up on a core hero. Having a tower advantage will often mean you're ahead on gold and have more map control, allowing you to continue forcing action. Such a strategy usually banks on this advantage to build towards a victory. With push strategies, quickly destroying any 2nd tier tower leaves the enemy team in a very disadvantageous position, because their base is now susceptible to being attacked. There are also strategies where teams relentlessly push while giving up on any late-game potential; this kind of strategy is built around a window of opportunity, and thus has an innate countdown. If the enemy can prevent you from achieving sufficient key objectives, they can convert this into a crushing victory with their late game heroes. This tends to play out similarly to all-ins we see in Starcraft 2.
Making sure you're destroying towers is really important for a certain kind of heroes in the game. There are heroes that aren't that dependant on having much farm, which can be a lower farm-priority hero and not have many problems because of it. We call this hero Support, and his mission in the game is self-explanatory: he's there to support. They are the heroes that fall from a single mistake, sometimes not even their own, while they help the team to work more coherently together. They must be as efficient as possible with whatever scraps of resources are available while keeping aware of the state of the game as a whole and making important calls. In professional play, captains and key decision makers are typically support players.
At the beginning of the game, a Support hero has more initial power than others, but loses strength as the game flows and all heroes become stronger. Support heroes are frequently placed into a delicate position, because while they're not high farm-priority heroes, if they don't get enough experience and farm they risk becoming a liability to the team. Once again, we can see the importance of good farm distribution.
There are many ways to deal with an opposing team that seems intent to push. I'll mention two: heroes that are good at destroying creepwaves are usually good at defending towers - which means that some heroes that are good at pushing are also good at anti-pushing. But what's really good to deal with pushes is the next fundamental category we'll discuss: gank.
The Third Fundamental: Gank
and an introduction to the Solo
To gank means you're trying to steal something from the enemy, be it their lives or map control. Ganking requires mobility (Queen of Pain, Bounty Hunter, Night Stalker, Storm Spirit), disables (Venomancer for slows, Shadow Shaman and Lion for hexes, etc.) and the ability to deal lots of damage quickly but many other elements are key to understanding why and when to gank. It's normal, for example, to see ganks happening close to the sixth minute mark, because this is when the first set of wards (usually placed at the beginning of the game) fade away. Quick ganks also creates situations where one team has more heroes in a skirmish than the other, enabling pushes and limiting their farm. Ganks are a strong way to deal with push because you can kill the push before it even starts. A push strategy wants the enemy to be behind their towers. But if you gank then before a tower is being sieged, you won't have problems with the push at all.
Most team compositions feature a hero that goes alone to a lane against another solitary enemy hero. That means he'll have an entire lane of gold and experience for himself to make use of. This lane is often, but not always the middle lane, and we call this the Solo hero. For the early stages of the game, the solo hero has the opportunity to have as much farm as the carry. Many heroes can be used as solo-heroes, from really high-octane heroes that just need a small amount of gold to start fighting and spreading chaos (for example, Beastmaster, Queen of Pain) to more conservative choices that scale well into the late game and can act as a second carry (Outworld Devourer, Dragon Knight, Shadow Fiend).
With the mere threat of gank, one team can limit the farm of the other while having the whole map to farm all their heroes, reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution. If you're able to make your opponent feel pressed, he'll be forced to adjust and move away from his plans. You don't even NEED to exert pressure, but to make him feel pressured. You don't need to go for the win instantly. You can always let the opponent feel the heat and try to profit with it, be it with the mistakes that are bound to happen when under pressure, be it when the enemy goes conservative and opens a whole map for you to farm.
Positions and Lineups
It became a convention to give Positions to heroes based on their farm priority. 1 is the highest priority hero in terms of farm, usually the carry hero in the safe lane; 2 is the second high priority, usually the solo mid hero; 3 is usually the hero placed into the unsafe lane to earn whatever possible, while 4 and 5 are usually the support heroes. However, these positions are not set in stone and can vary wildly based on laning setups, the heroes themselves, or the way a game progresses. Sometimes, a hero might start at position 2 in order to get key items, then move to a lesser position as he spends more time being active on the map while another hero takes the opportunity to earn additional farm. No sane strategy simply sets farm priorities on stone, it's all about circumstance and figuring out ways to give your team an advantage.
From the very beginning of the game, in the Ban & Pick stages, teams must find an adequate lineup that combines these three fundamental elements. A team wants to have a lineup and not only just five strong heroes. The game will offer very different positions and situations based on time: at the beginning of the game, some heroes will be very stronger than others, and the same can be said about the mid and late game. It's possible, but risky, to focus on one of these timings. It'll give a team a huge advantage on the said timing, but it means you're giving up your possibilities on the others. You might go for a very strong early game, but your late game might be under threat if you don't manage to punish enough the enemy. A sound strategy usually try to create a lineup that doesn't contain weak points on the early, mid and late game. A lineup, in this sense, is a combination of five heroes that synergizes and work together into realizing a gameplan or strategy, and not merely five strong heroes.
It's also possible, but risky, to go all-in towards Push, Gank or Farm. A pure Push strategy might be destroyed by ganks or by having nothing to resort to if they lose momentum; a pure Gank strategy might fail if they can't deal substantial damage to the enemy farm and allow their carry to emerge with items; a pure Farm strategy might find themselves without any space at all to farm because of the enemy ganks and pushes. A sound strategy is one which is versatile and adaptable to the pace and occurences in the game, and means you'll have more than one tool to get into a good position to destroy the enemy Ancient and earn a victory.
I'll leave this in Dota 2 general for a few days and then move to a permanent home in the strategy forum. We will use this as a continually updated resource for newcomers and a place to discuss basic and general strategy questions, so feel free to give feedback or ask for any clarifications.
On August 05 2013 07:33 legoboomette wrote: Nice guide, but surely something like map control would be a fundamental/resource too. Would also translate pretty well for Starcraft players.
It's a discussion. Surely it's a fundamental stuff, but not a resource. It's even more subtle than time.
Pretty good stuff to help newer players ease into a basic understanding of competitive dota. Would also like to see some more advanced strategy writeups from TL writers. I know you have some skilled and experienced players on staff so would be good to see something, for example, careful dissection of rotations and movements of top tier supports or something like that with analysis on everything, etc. afaik sc2 section gets periodic staff-produced guides and things so why not do the same for dota2 strategy?
On August 05 2013 07:57 shizaep wrote: Pretty good stuff to help newer players ease into a basic understanding of competitive dota. Would also like to see some more advanced strategy writeups from TL writers. I know you have some skilled and experienced players on staff so would be good to see something, for example, careful dissection of rotations and movements of top tier supports or something like that with analysis on everything, etc. afaik sc2 section gets periodic staff-produced guides and things so why not do the same for dota2 strategy?
We have plans, but TI3 is getting the best of everyone for quite a time. And honestly I wrote this because of the free marketing Blizzard made with their scheduling of WCS. It became necessary after that.
I like this a lot. I have been writing a universal dota guide for more than a year now, still unpolished and unfinished since I find myself more often playing than actually writing stuff down. Especially now that I finally have a team to work with.
One note that hit my eye the most was the fact that the ganks start happening at the 6 minute mark not only because a possible set of wards has expired, but mostly because night time begins.
On August 05 2013 09:42 Nakwa wrote: Short guide to dota2:
Don't make mistakes, force the other team to make mistakes, keep control and pressure.
That is like saying short guide to starcraft: win engagements, gather more resouces, and spend them appropriately, its not exactly helpful to a beginner.
I feel like its a bit overcomplicated (well maybe just too much) for a newcomer but i mean, its an article so you had to add some depth and if they are going to watch TI3, reading that isnt much of a problem anyway.
I understand it as i play the other moba that should not be named though.
Still dont have a damn clue about heroes / items though, which is the biggest thing when it comes to fully understanding a moba. Recommend using a Dota wiki for any heroes / items you dont recognise while watching TI3. When you can start saying "Ahh lich's ult just bounces around and fucks people up or Ok so blink dagger lets them teleport every X seconds" instead of. Wtf is that ball of ice? How did the champ just warp across the screen?!?!! things start to make more sense lol.
*Lich used because he's like 1 of 2 heroes i learnt to play in dota.
Excellent guide - I love how there are some SC2 references in it to help new SC2 players to dota. I feel that it is missing an important concept though: counter pushing and team fight. EG. some hero are better at team fighting with large AoE disables and teams should follow up on these disables (many times I have played and some people don't follow up with the team initiating)
On August 05 2013 14:33 Capped wrote: I feel like its a bit overcomplicated (well maybe just too much) for a newcomer but i mean, its an article so you had to add some depth and if they are going to watch TI3, reading that isnt much of a problem anyway.
I understand it as i play the other moba that should not be named though.
Still dont have a damn clue about heroes / items though, which is the biggest thing when it comes to fully understanding a moba. Recommend using a Dota wiki for any heroes / items you dont recognise while watching TI3. When you can start saying "Ahh lich's ult just bounces around and fucks people up or Ok so blink dagger lets them teleport every X seconds" instead of. Wtf is that ball of ice? How did the champ just warp across the screen?!?!! things start to make more sense lol.
*Lich used because he's like 1 of 2 champs i learnt to play in dota.
lol Don't call Lich champ.
If you don't really know about heroes and items, you shouldn't expect to learn about it when watching the highest level of plays in TI, because it doesn't mean to teach you.
Anyway, I know what you mean. It's kind of overwhelming when you don't really know about it. What they should do is making an article that summarize the popular heroes for the last 2 days, their usefulness, skills, item builds,.v..v.v so that people can start to learn about the actual gameplay instead of random rant assuming people are retards.
Granted you're only going into the basics for now, but I expected at least a mention of split push. Regardless, I'm looking forward to see what comes of this.
Very nice read, I've been playing some Dota2 but with very limited knowledge of what's going on. At my level, kills and farm is more important than the strategic aspect shown here.
Nice article, as a SC2 players I find it really helpful.
If there are more to come, I think it would help even more if there was more detailled diagrams showing everything that has been said (+ picture of heroes ?). Or maybe to a small presentation of the most played heroes with their skills (or maybe typical spells, terms used to refer to a spell (I know blink would be one of those term)). I think the most difficult thing to understand while watching a Dota2 game is team fights, every hero cast all of his spells, something happens, then one team leads (I remember watching TI1 with tobi commentating, I knew as much as I do today and I couldn't understand a thing with tobi talking so fast and using spell's name, etc.)
Found this kinda helpful with no knowledge at all. Gonna need matches though I think. Need to see a little more to undertand when there's a major WOAH That's awesome skill moment.
On August 05 2013 14:33 Capped wrote: I feel like its a bit overcomplicated (well maybe just too much) for a newcomer but i mean, its an article so you had to add some depth and if they are going to watch TI3, reading that isnt much of a problem anyway.
I understand it as i play the other moba that should not be named though.
Still dont have a damn clue about heroes / items though, which is the biggest thing when it comes to fully understanding a moba. Recommend using a Dota wiki for any heroes / items you dont recognise while watching TI3. When you can start saying "Ahh lich's ult just bounces around and fucks people up or Ok so blink dagger lets them teleport every X seconds" instead of. Wtf is that ball of ice? How did the champ just warp across the screen?!?!! things start to make more sense lol.q
*Lich used because he's like 1 of 2 champs i learnt to play in dota.
lol Don't call Lich champ.
If you don't really know about heroes and items, you shouldn't expect to learn about it when watching the highest level of plays in TI, because it doesn't mean to teach you.
Anyway, I know what you mean. It's kind of overwhelming when you don't really know about it. What they should do is making an article that summarize the popular heroes for the last 2 days, their usefulness, skills, item builds,.v..v.v so that people can start to learn about the actual gameplay instead of random rant assuming people are retards.
Given that there were picked more than 60 different heroes at only the first day it would be kinda much.
Heros who stand out, like weaver, are kinda hard to explain. Telling a noob weaver is good cause he gets away all the time and plays a good offlane is not as intuitiv.
Guide wrote: "reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution"
Yeah...
Anyway, I have stupid questions as I've never played but plan to watch some TI3: How is it determined which team is the radiant and which is the dire? (Or was that LoL? I mean the dark and the bright side.) Are all heroes available for both sides given that the other team hasn't picked that hero or do both sides have their own heroes? Can items be purchased at any time if you have gold or does that require some kind of shop? How about abilities? Can you choose those immediately upon leveling up or do you need to go to a specific location?
Guide wrote: "reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution"
Yeah...
Anyway, I have stupid questions as I've never played but plan to watch some TI3: How is it determined which team is the radiant and which is the dire? (Or was that LoL? I mean the dark and the bright side.) Are all heroes available for both sides given that the other team hasn't picked that hero or do both sides have their own heroes? Can items be purchased at any time if you have gold or does that require some kind of shop? How about abilities? Can you choose those immediately upon leveling up or do you need to go to a specific location?
edit. great guide!
* Depends on tournament. I think for TI3 group stage its a coin flip and winner decides which side. * All heroes are available for both sides as long as they haven't been picked or banned already. * Items have to be purchased at shops but you don't actually have to be there to buy it. However to actually get the item you need to go get it or have the courier bring it to you. * Abilities can be taken as soon as you level.
Guide wrote: "reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution"
Yeah...
Anyway, I have stupid questions as I've never played but plan to watch some TI3: How is it determined which team is the radiant and which is the dire? (Or was that LoL? I mean the dark and the bright side.) Are all heroes available for both sides given that the other team hasn't picked that hero or do both sides have their own heroes? Can items be purchased at any time if you have gold or does that require some kind of shop? How about abilities? Can you choose those immediately upon leveling up or do you need to go to a specific location?
edit. great guide!
* Depends on tournament. I think for TI3 group stage its a coin flip and winner decides which side. * All heroes are available for both sides as long as they haven't been picked or banned already. * Items have to be purchased at shops but you don't actually have to be there to buy it. However to actually get the item you need to go get it or have the courier bring it to you. * Abilities can be taken as soon as you level.
Thanks. That helps but I guess I'll need to play at least a little to really get into it. No free time is the problem. I also don't feel like being abused online for being a noob. That's a team game issue.
Right now, Dota 2 suffers from the absence of comprehensive metrics that tells a player if they're improving or not. Such a problem might never be solved ...
Is that really true? Why would every other gaming company hide peoples MMR then? As far as I understood, most companies hide them because showing your progress (or maybe often lack of?) adds pressure on players to improve which scares a lot of casual players away. I mean, "ladder anxiety" isnt a concept in neither the DOTA nor LoL world, is it? Being faced with the fact that you're actually quite a bad player, and you arent improving either, does likely deter quite a few people away from games. Hiding your progress makes people enjoy the game for what it is, not for how good you can become at it.
Guide wrote: "reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution"
Yeah...
Anyway, I have stupid questions as I've never played but plan to watch some TI3: How is it determined which team is the radiant and which is the dire? (Or was that LoL? I mean the dark and the bright side.) Are all heroes available for both sides given that the other team hasn't picked that hero or do both sides have their own heroes? Can items be purchased at any time if you have gold or does that require some kind of shop? How about abilities? Can you choose those immediately upon leveling up or do you need to go to a specific location?
edit. great guide!
* Depends on tournament. I think for TI3 group stage its a coin flip and winner decides which side. * All heroes are available for both sides as long as they haven't been picked or banned already. * Items have to be purchased at shops but you don't actually have to be there to buy it. However to actually get the item you need to go get it or have the courier bring it to you. * Abilities can be taken as soon as you level.
Thanks. That helps but I guess I'll need to play at least a little to really get into it. No free time is the problem. I also don't feel like being abused online for being a noob. That's a team game issue.
valve's system is doing a pretty good job at sorting out guys who are impolite. You will still get flamed for being a noob sometimes, but it never got out of hand when i played.
Dota2 has a tutorial now btw.
On August 05 2013 20:52 Kreb wrote: The first part....
Right now, Dota 2 suffers from the absence of comprehensive metrics that tells a player if they're improving or not. Such a problem might never be solved ...
Is that really true? Why would every other gaming company hide peoples MMR then? As far as I understood, most companies hide them because showing your progress (or maybe often lack of?) adds pressure on players to improve which scares a lot of casual players away. I mean, "ladder anxiety" isnt a concept in neither the DOTA nor LoL world, is it? Being faced with the fact that you're actually quite a bad player, and you arent improving either, does likely deter quite a few people away from games. Hiding your progress makes people enjoy the game for what it is, not for how good you can become at it.
I think it's relatively easy to say if you are improving, just watch your own replays a week ago and now. CS, positioning mistakes etc are good indicators. Besides you can see your mmr-region in dota2, it's just not as omnipresent as in sc2.
Right now, Dota 2 suffers from the absence of comprehensive metrics that tells a player if they're improving or not. Such a problem might never be solved ...
Is that really true? Why would every other gaming company hide peoples MMR then? As far as I understood, most companies hide them because showing your progress (or maybe often lack of?) adds pressure on players to improve which scares a lot of casual players away. I mean, "ladder anxiety" isnt a concept in neither the DOTA nor LoL world, is it? Being faced with the fact that you're actually quite a bad player, and you arent improving either, does likely deter quite a few people away from games. Hiding your progress makes people enjoy the game for what it is, not for how good you can become at it.
I have to agree. Playing HoN where the MMRs were on display, as well as how much you stood to gain/lose added quite a bit of unnecessary pressure to the game.
Right now, Dota 2 suffers from the absence of comprehensive metrics that tells a player if they're improving or not. Such a problem might never be solved ...
Is that really true? Why would every other gaming company hide peoples MMR then? As far as I understood, most companies hide them because showing your progress (or maybe often lack of?) adds pressure on players to improve which scares a lot of casual players away. I mean, "ladder anxiety" isnt a concept in neither the DOTA nor LoL world, is it? Being faced with the fact that you're actually quite a bad player, and you arent improving either, does likely deter quite a few people away from games. Hiding your progress makes people enjoy the game for what it is, not for how good you can become at it.
There are ways to tell you are improving without using some ladder rank. Gold per minute, creep score(this is huge), denies and over all score is a good way to tell how good you are doing. Unlike SC2 and LoL, which just gives you a rank, Dota 2 requires that you actually look at your play and attempt to review it based on how you played previously.
Also, with no ladder rank, there is no reason to be worried about losing a game beyond the fact that you lost. There are rankings for 5 man teams, however, since that is the full package of Dota 2.
Pretty certain that the author means you can't easily evaluate or quantify your gamesense, your decision making, overall strategy understanding, teamplay synergy, pick and ban analysis etc. Sure, you could be improving your raw stats, and still it could be that you are not improving on the above things.
I don't know anything about Dota2, and am interested in learning.
I didn't understand the section on ganking. Can you give some examples of what it means to "steal something", like one of their lives? Does this mean that my team tries to focus down one of their heroes? How can I steal map control?
On August 05 2013 23:45 Random_0 wrote: I don't know anything about Dota2, and am interested in learning.
I didn't understand the section on ganking. Can you give some examples of what it means to "steal something", like one of their lives? Does this mean that my team tries to focus down one of their heroes? How can I steal map control?
"Steal" was used in a very abstract way. Yes, it can mean their lives and their gold, as any kill achieves, but successful ganks can, for example, make a team unable to farm their own jungle because of the threat of new ganks, "stealing" map control. Don't take it too literally.
On August 05 2013 23:45 Random_0 wrote: I don't know anything about Dota2, and am interested in learning.
I didn't understand the section on ganking. Can you give some examples of what it means to "steal something", like one of their lives? Does this mean that my team tries to focus down one of their heroes? How can I steal map control?
The threat of the gank or the gank itself takes control away from the solo lane player. If a strong ganking line up, that player has to be more careful and cannot be caught out of position. So if one team picks a strong off lane hero to push that really hard and the other team picks a good ganking line up, it “removes” some of the power from the off lane hero. They are unable to push as far, may lose farm because they cannot move around the map as efficiently at they would like and so on. Because the players don’t have all the information or location of every enemy hero, the risk is constant.
Or to put it another way, it limits their ability to fuck up, while improves the ganking teams ability to punish mistakes.
On August 05 2013 23:45 Random_0 wrote: I don't know anything about Dota2, and am interested in learning.
I didn't understand the section on ganking. Can you give some examples of what it means to "steal something", like one of their lives? Does this mean that my team tries to focus down one of their heroes? How can I steal map control?
The threat of the gank or the gank itself takes control away from the solo lane player. If a strong ganking line up, that player has to be more careful and cannot be caught out of position. So if one team picks a strong off lane hero to push that really hard and the other team picks a good ganking line up, it “removes” some of the power from the off lane hero. They are unable to push as far, may lose farm because they cannot move around the map as efficiently at they would like and so on. Because the players don’t have all the information or location of every enemy hero, the risk is constant.
Or to put it another way, it limits their ability to fuck up, while improves the ganking teams ability to punish mistakes.
It sounds from this explanation that "gank" is kind of like "snipe", where you focus your efforts temporarily on picking off one unit (a hero in this case.)
On August 05 2013 09:30 wei2coolman wrote: Okay. This is so much better. Thought the viewer's guide was a bit toooooooooooooooo simplistic.
It was perfect for someone like me. I all about SC2 and I've been trying to get into Dota2 (just watching, not even playing) but it's so damn confusing, all those different hero's moves/spells and item combinations is so much information to take in. As someone mentioned in the views guide topic there doesn't seem to be a "Tasteless" in the Dota casting community, someone who always explains things in layman's or occasionally goes over the basics again on the off chance that there are new viewers watching. I was constantly clueless when phrases like "BKB" were been continuosly thrown around and the viewers guide really helped out with that.
On August 05 2013 23:55 Random_0 wrote: So what exactly is a "gank"? This is the concept that translates least well for me from SC2.
You find a hero out of position or that is to far up, jump them with one or more heroes and murder them realy, really, good. It is an ambush. There is a think called a Smoke Gank, which is a single item that makes everyone in a small area "cloaked" and gives them a speed boost(along with sweet music). It is the standard way to move a large number of players around the map, avoiding wards. Even sentry wards(which reveal cloaked stuff) do not show the "smoked" heroes on the mini-map. You have to see them on the main screen when they are within vision of the sentry ward.
On August 05 2013 23:45 Random_0 wrote: I don't know anything about Dota2, and am interested in learning.
I didn't understand the section on ganking. Can you give some examples of what it means to "steal something", like one of their lives? Does this mean that my team tries to focus down one of their heroes? How can I steal map control?
The threat of the gank or the gank itself takes control away from the solo lane player. If a strong ganking line up, that player has to be more careful and cannot be caught out of position. So if one team picks a strong off lane hero to push that really hard and the other team picks a good ganking line up, it “removes” some of the power from the off lane hero. They are unable to push as far, may lose farm because they cannot move around the map as efficiently at they would like and so on. Because the players don’t have all the information or location of every enemy hero, the risk is constant.
Or to put it another way, it limits their ability to fuck up, while improves the ganking teams ability to punish mistakes.
It sounds from this explanation that "gank" is kind of like "snipe", where you focus your efforts temporarily on picking off one unit (a hero in this case.)
Exactly, and they don't need to kill them, just drive them out of lane. Any time a core hero is out of lane, it is similar to lost mining time. Only in gank heavy line ups, they remove potential mining time. Its like the threat of DTs to a terran forcing them to save up for scans.
On August 05 2013 09:30 wei2coolman wrote: Okay. This is so much better. Thought the viewer's guide was a bit toooooooooooooooo simplistic.
It was perfect for someone like me. I all about SC2 and I've been trying to get into Dota2 (just watching, not even playing) but it's so damn confusing, all those different hero's moves/spells and item combinations is so much information to take in. As someone mentioned in the views guide topic there doesn't seem to be a "Tasteless" in the Dota casting community, someone who always explains things in layman's or occasionally goes over the basics again on the off chance that there are new viewers watching. I was constantly clueless when phrases like "BKB" were been continuosly thrown around and the viewers guide really helped out with that.
That was well said. This pretty much sums up my feelings towrds Dota2 as well.
Guide wrote: "reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution"
Yeah...
Anyway, I have stupid questions as I've never played but plan to watch some TI3: How is it determined which team is the radiant and which is the dire? (Or was that LoL? I mean the dark and the bright side.) Are all heroes available for both sides given that the other team hasn't picked that hero or do both sides have their own heroes? Can items be purchased at any time if you have gold or does that require some kind of shop? How about abilities? Can you choose those immediately upon leveling up or do you need to go to a specific location?
edit. great guide!
* Depends on tournament. I think for TI3 group stage its a coin flip and winner decides which side. * All heroes are available for both sides as long as they haven't been picked or banned already. * Items have to be purchased at shops but you don't actually have to be there to buy it. However to actually get the item you need to go get it or have the courier bring it to you. * Abilities can be taken as soon as you level.
Is there actually any tactical advantage to choosing Dire or Radiant? Both jungles look slightly different (not mirrored) and Roshan appears to be closer to the Dire. Or does it all even out in the grand scheme of things?
On August 05 2013 09:30 wei2coolman wrote: Okay. This is so much better. Thought the viewer's guide was a bit toooooooooooooooo simplistic.
It was perfect for someone like me. I all about SC2 and I've been trying to get into Dota2 (just watching, not even playing) but it's so damn confusing, all those different hero's moves/spells and item combinations is so much information to take in. As someone mentioned in the views guide topic there doesn't seem to be a "Tasteless" in the Dota casting community, someone who always explains things in layman's or occasionally goes over the basics again on the off chance that there are new viewers watching. I was constantly clueless when phrases like "BKB" were been continuosly thrown around and the viewers guide really helped out with that.
That was well said. This pretty much sums up my feelings towrds Dota2 as well.
As for items, just remember they all have things they do and provide stats, which make heroes have more damage, HP or attack speed:
BKB: Makes you immune to a lot of spells, but not every one. Gets worse the more you use it. It is a key items for team fights for a lot of heroes that need to get their abilities off.
Mek: A mass healing item that provides armor and regen. Super important for team fights. Supports get this item and often rush it.
Pipe: like mek, except that is provides a shield against all enemy spells to a set damage amount. Super support item. People get mek first, because healing is bad ass.
Blink Dagger: Has one job, you know what it is. Super awesome, can do it every 12 seconds.
Drums: Provides passive movement speed buff and has charges to make everyone go faster.
Force staff: support item. Moves a hero forward in the direction they are facing super fast. Any hero, friendly, or enemy and including the holder.
Manta sytle: Damage item that lets the hero make illusions of himself, that can be controls and do damage(but less than the hero)
Butterfly: Super power end game carry item. Adds lots of damage, attack speed and a flat 30%(could be wrong) dodge chance. Costs a fuck ton.
Smoke: makes everyone cloaked and makes them go faster. Used for ganks.
Dust: does the exact opposit of what smoke does, but to enemy players. All cloaked heroes are not cloaked and slowed. Its a scan with time warp.
Battle fury: the farming item for carries. Gives them an AOE that does less damage, but lets them farm super fast. It is the mule of Dota 2. How soon a carry gets the Battle fury tells you how well they are doing. I think 15 minutes is pretty good.
The rest you can kinda find out, but just watch more and you will learn. Just remember that Antimage is a dick and everyone will freak out if we see meepo(we won't see meepo)
Guide wrote: "reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution"
Yeah...
Anyway, I have stupid questions as I've never played but plan to watch some TI3: How is it determined which team is the radiant and which is the dire? (Or was that LoL? I mean the dark and the bright side.) Are all heroes available for both sides given that the other team hasn't picked that hero or do both sides have their own heroes? Can items be purchased at any time if you have gold or does that require some kind of shop? How about abilities? Can you choose those immediately upon leveling up or do you need to go to a specific location?
edit. great guide!
* Depends on tournament. I think for TI3 group stage its a coin flip and winner decides which side. * All heroes are available for both sides as long as they haven't been picked or banned already. * Items have to be purchased at shops but you don't actually have to be there to buy it. However to actually get the item you need to go get it or have the courier bring it to you. * Abilities can be taken as soon as you level.
Is there actually any tactical advantage to choosing Dire or Radiant? Both jungles look slightly different (not mirrored) and Roshan appears to be closer to the Dire. Or does it all even out in the grand scheme of things?
The Roshan part can be significant because the Dire can take it a bit easier, and when there's a stand-off in the general pit area, they can farm their ancients meanwhile. It's also possible to pull the big camp on the dire jungle to the lanes, so you drag your creep wave to the neutrals, but you cant do that easily on the Radiant side.
But it's honestly just the Roshan part in the grand scheme of things.
Guide wrote: "reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution"
Yeah...
Anyway, I have stupid questions as I've never played but plan to watch some TI3: How is it determined which team is the radiant and which is the dire? (Or was that LoL? I mean the dark and the bright side.) Are all heroes available for both sides given that the other team hasn't picked that hero or do both sides have their own heroes? Can items be purchased at any time if you have gold or does that require some kind of shop? How about abilities? Can you choose those immediately upon leveling up or do you need to go to a specific location?
edit. great guide!
* Depends on tournament. I think for TI3 group stage its a coin flip and winner decides which side. * All heroes are available for both sides as long as they haven't been picked or banned already. * Items have to be purchased at shops but you don't actually have to be there to buy it. However to actually get the item you need to go get it or have the courier bring it to you. * Abilities can be taken as soon as you level.
Is there actually any tactical advantage to choosing Dire or Radiant? Both jungles look slightly different (not mirrored) and Roshan appears to be closer to the Dire. Or does it all even out in the grand scheme of things?
The Roshan part can be significant because the Dire can take it a bit easier, and when there's a stand-off in the general pit area, they can farm their ancients meanwhile. It's also possible to pull the big camp on the dire jungle to the lanes, so you drag your creep wave to the neutrals, but you cant do that easily on the Radiant side.
But it's honestly just the Roshan part in the grand scheme of things.
You see, I would argue that Radiant has a way better approach to the Roshan pit, with the the Y double-ramp and nearly three escape routes. It think in the end it is a wash because the real area that matters is right outside the pit, where all the magic(murder) happens.
Edit: You should all watch Firebolt below, he knows what he is doing. You might learn something. Harass him till he plays Meepo or invoker if you want to see the deepest, dumbest Dota that is out there.
So because of all the people commenting that they find the commentators commentary confusing as hell, I will be streaming myself watching the games while providing my own basic-newbie-friendly commentary while answering questions in my stream chat at www.twitch.tv/firebolt145
Guide wrote: "reaffirming Nimzowitsch's idea that the threat is stronger than the execution"
Yeah...
Anyway, I have stupid questions as I've never played but plan to watch some TI3: How is it determined which team is the radiant and which is the dire? (Or was that LoL? I mean the dark and the bright side.) Are all heroes available for both sides given that the other team hasn't picked that hero or do both sides have their own heroes? Can items be purchased at any time if you have gold or does that require some kind of shop? How about abilities? Can you choose those immediately upon leveling up or do you need to go to a specific location?
edit. great guide!
* Depends on tournament. I think for TI3 group stage its a coin flip and winner decides which side. * All heroes are available for both sides as long as they haven't been picked or banned already. * Items have to be purchased at shops but you don't actually have to be there to buy it. However to actually get the item you need to go get it or have the courier bring it to you. * Abilities can be taken as soon as you level.
Is there actually any tactical advantage to choosing Dire or Radiant? Both jungles look slightly different (not mirrored) and Roshan appears to be closer to the Dire. Or does it all even out in the grand scheme of things?
Dire has better Rosh access. Due to this, its ancient stack is also a bit easier to farm/stack since the Rosh area will normally be heavily warded (and thus safe from nearly all ganks).
Radiant jungle (I'd argue) is much friendlier to the lane though. The double pull is much easier to pull off, and the ward spot can cover both the rune, the river, and the jungle (very cost efficient to ward). I also feel it's much harder to gank the safe lane since the mid will have only one real path towards bot (near the rune/rosh area) whereas from radiant, you can choose the rune ramp or the ramp near the tier 1 mid tower.
Due to this, I prefer to be radiant when aiming for the late game, since the jungle becomes very important in finding exp and farm for supports, as well as farm for the carry when the lanes are pushed. Bot lane is also really easy to push. For early-mid though, dire is friendlier.
Hello, I've just installed Dota 2 yesterday and have a quick question:
What would be the better way to learn: either playing some customs while learning an item and skill build for one hero and then trying to play with only that hero (kind of like BO practice in SC), or just throwing yourself into the game and trying a sip of everything?
Wish to at least get some fundamentals so that i can at least have some fun playing. Thanks a bunch!
On August 07 2013 02:58 McRatyn wrote: Hello, I've just installed Dota 2 yesterday and have a quick question:
What would be the better way to learn: either playing some customs while learning an item and skill build for one hero and then trying to play with only that hero (kind of like BO practice in SC), or just throwing yourself into the game and trying a sip of everything?
Wish to at least get some fundamentals so that i can at least have some fun playing. Thanks a bunch!
Cut your teeth in bot matches and play a "carry" to learn to farm. Do not play all pick at very low level, its a terrible place. Once you get an idea how to play, I recommend random or single draft try heroes out. That is how I learned, the heard way. Be fearless.
On August 07 2013 02:58 McRatyn wrote: Hello, I've just installed Dota 2 yesterday and have a quick question:
What would be the better way to learn: either playing some customs while learning an item and skill build for one hero and then trying to play with only that hero (kind of like BO practice in SC), or just throwing yourself into the game and trying a sip of everything?
Wish to at least get some fundamentals so that i can at least have some fun playing. Thanks a bunch!
Cut your teeth in bot matches and play a "carry" to learn to farm. Do not play all pick at very low level, its a terrible place. Once you get an idea how to play, I recommend random or single draft try heroes out. That is how I learned, the heard way. Be fearless.
Thank you for such a quick reply! Actually i read in some article about Dota 2 for beginners, it mentioned avoiding carries if you're a newbie cause they require very good last hitting an other all-around skills to be effective and focusing on more beefy tanky/support like heroes. What would your take on that be?
On August 07 2013 02:58 McRatyn wrote: Hello, I've just installed Dota 2 yesterday and have a quick question:
What would be the better way to learn: either playing some customs while learning an item and skill build for one hero and then trying to play with only that hero (kind of like BO practice in SC), or just throwing yourself into the game and trying a sip of everything?
Wish to at least get some fundamentals so that i can at least have some fun playing. Thanks a bunch!
Cut your teeth in bot matches and play a "carry" to learn to farm. Do not play all pick at very low level, its a terrible place. Once you get an idea how to play, I recommend random or single draft try heroes out. That is how I learned, the heard way. Be fearless.
Thank you for such a quick reply! Actually i read in some article about Dota 2 for beginners, it mentioned avoiding carries if you're a newbie cause they require very good last hitting an other all-around skills to be effective and focusing on more beefy tanky/support like heroes. What would your take on that be?
I play carries in bot matches just to practice last hitting. I should have been clear. Supports are best for your first "real" game. If I am my first normal game, I would play a low gold(5 postion) like Earth Shaker, Lion or Litch. Just remember that in the early game (levels 1-6) you have mana and not to spam your abilities. Also, don't auto attack creeps unless you are trying to push the lane. Beyond that, just play, learn try not to feed. The hardest part of Dota 2 is to learn that sometimes your job is to do nothing.
The problem with Dota 2 for me is the amount of heros and their ability. It seems that initiation of a fight can be made by a lot of heroes and its mostly same but with different heroes the skill has a different name. When caster uses the name of skill instead of explaining what's going on in general im confused. All the other stuff is pretty simple to understand, but items and heroes are the biggest problem for me. I'd love to watch a stream provided by someone who will be, like somebody mentioned earlier, like "Tasteless" and will explain everything more newbie friendly.
On August 13 2013 21:07 Kylo55 wrote: The problem with Dota 2 for me is the amount of heros and their ability. It seems that initiation of a fight can be made by a lot of heroes and its mostly same but with different heroes the skill has a different name. When caster uses the name of skill instead of explaining what's going on in general im confused. All the other stuff is pretty simple to understand, but items and heroes are the biggest problem for me. I'd love to watch a stream provided by someone who will be, like somebody mentioned earlier, like "Tasteless" and will explain everything more newbie friendly.
I agree this is a problem for a first time viewer. The number of heroes, abilities, and items that used to keep me from enjoying playing and watching Dota, are now the reason I keep coming back. I've yet to see an identical game. Whereas SC2 (which I still enjoy watching) seems to have more clear-cut scenarios playing out. Icefrog does a great job of shifting the metagame with frequent balance patches which also creates new and exciting scenarios to watch. The Dota 2 client itself is a huge resource. The library tab has all the information on heroes, abilities, and items. The spectating part of the client is even greater. Up until recently, I did not realize it was powerful enough to make Twitch obsolete for me. You can watch games and listen to casters in multiple languages from the client. And if you have a question, you can talk with the other spectators in-game. Thank you for this write-up by the way-- very useful.