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Ever since I moved from MVP Phoenix to Hot6, I've had more free time since our current team's name value doesn't compare to my former team's so we get a lot less invites to tournaments and I'll be attending to less LAN events for the forseeable future.
I've played this game for a very long time. Mechanically speaking, I'm pretty washed up compared to my former self but I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the game and its various aspects such as growth as a team.
Talking to ahswtini last night reminded myself that I enjoy talking about DotA because I have a lot of thoughts about the game but it's only when I have to put them in words to answer questions that I feel I can organize my thoughts logically. Sometimes I only have a gut feeling about a topic but when I have to explain it, I can finally put my finger on it which is really satisfying.
Not all things in this game are objective so don't expect me to give you the absolute truth. It'll often end up being my 2 cents. I like giving detailed answers if possible so just shoot and I'll try my best to help out.
Advice on specific heroes, itemization, how to make progress as a team, things that aren't easily googled etc.
I might dodge questions if I'm not confident enough though! Stuff like Syllabear, ew. I don't play that hero.
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should put ya name in the title!
not really strategy but can you give us a little bit more background info on why you got moved?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
what are your favourite uncommon ward spots?
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On April 11 2015 14:54 Hydrolisko wrote:
should put ya name in the title!
not really strategy but can you give us a little bit more background info on why you got moved?
We had a great run on the previous Phoenix but in the end I think our incompatibilities got the best of us. Almost a full year without a single roster change is pretty impressive if I might say so.
For example, instead of having 1~3 position cores, it felt like we had three 2 position cores at times and that affected the draft quite a bit. It's ironic because earlier on, when we were inexperienced, we were more united in our vision of DotA however flawed or naive it may have been. With more experience and skill, each player started developing his own vision of DotA and we agreed that we couldn't satisfy everyone's goal.
We got along well on a person to person level. But on a player to player level, we had a lot of disagreements which later led to trust issues.
We're still on very good terms after the split though.
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If you were a fan of a starcraft brood war team, which were yours?
+ How the hell do you reliably break high ground vs sniper ;_; (is it a big a thing in the korean metagame?)
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How close do you think the Korean scene is to catching up with China and the best of the West?
Which heroes do you think are undervalued/underrated right now?
How do you think is the best way to learn from replays? How do you balance watching your own replays vs replays of tournaments or pub games of other top players?
Do you think it's best if one player makes the calls the whole game, or if the call-shotter should be one person but change to a different person at different points in the game (e.g. maybe a support calls the plays early, but mid takes over a little later, and carry after that or something)? How do you avoid chaos over the mic? If two players have two contradicting ideas of how to proceed in a game, how do you quickly resolve that quickly?
Are there any heroes you think could be at least situationally be really strong in a role other than how they're most commonly played at high level?
What percent of the time do you study or practice the roles and heroes other than what you main as?
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On April 11 2015 15:53 opterown wrote:
what are your favourite uncommon ward spots?
http://imgur.com/zHhXBhd,IQXFhTN,Ds5Unp6,0s0mO0r,1PyC5dA,pwhf2tc,SJz4hYk#0
I picked some spots I like to put when I'm radiant.
My views on warding are simple.
1. The deeper the wards, the better.
2. A ward with less vision that is alive is better than an imba ward which gets dewarded anyway.
3. You only need selective vision anyway, especially late game, in order to tell what the opponents are up to, so sneaky wards that pick up on suspicious movements are equally valuable as ones that give more vision. All you need are clues, not the whole picture.
4. Wards that give vision in common smoke spots can be game-breaking.
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On April 11 2015 16:24 Iplaythings wrote:
If you were a fan of a starcraft brood war team, which were yours?
+ How the hell do you reliably break high ground vs sniper ;_; (is it a big a thing in the korean metagame?)
I usually rooted for players, not teams but if I had to pick one, probably SKT1 during Boxer and iloveoov's prime.
vs sniper you need a reliable way to instagib him obviously but you might be trying too early to break high ground especially if there's a good chance sniper has buyback.
The alternative is to kill his key teammates because sniper is actually pretty helpless for base defense without teammates unlike medusa for example.
The worst thing that can happen when you go high ground vs sniper is to commit to him but fail (or he buys back and it turns out you commited too heavily). So reliable yolo heroes like void, spectre, gap closing abyssal carriers who often have BKB as well are good. If the heroes are already picked and you don't have the best anti-sniper tools, you should try dealing with his teammates. It's definitely not easy but a common mistake I see is people tunnel visioning on the sniper and sometimes that's exactly what the sniper wants/expects.
Generally you want to have good map/rosh control before sniper hits 3+ core items which is where he starts getting the best of both worlds: damage and control.
Edit: if you can force sniper to get unusual items such as blink, BKB, shadow blade, force staff and such as a counter measure, it's a good sign.
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Heen, if you are ever at MLG Anaheim, are you down for some Korean BBQ?
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If you had to nerf troll, what would you do?
Any other hero you would like to see buffed/nerfed in the next patch?
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On April 11 2015 16:35 Nightmarjoo wrote:
How close do you think the Korean scene is to catching up with China and the best of the West?
Which heroes do you think are undervalued/underrated right now?
How do you think is the best way to learn from replays? How do you balance watching your own replays vs replays of tournaments or pub games of other top players?
Do you think it's best if one player makes the calls the whole game, or if the call-shotter should be one person but change to a different person at different points in the game (e.g. maybe a support calls the plays early, but mid takes over a little later, and carry after that or something)? How do you avoid chaos over the mic? If two players have two contradicting ideas of how to proceed in a game, how do you quickly resolve that quickly?
Are there any heroes you think could be at least situationally be really strong in a role other than how they're most commonly played at high level?
What percent of the time do you study or practice the roles and heroes other than what you main as?
The Korean 'scene' will not catch up easily. But a few select teams that are on top of the food chain are closer than most people think. I think what the Korean teams lack is stability. When we did beat foreign teams, both Chinese and Western, we did it pretty convincingly I feel but when we lost, it was often one-sided. I think it's because the experience we can build up within Korea/SEA is limited so we can't confidently evaluate our strengths and weaknesses. Drafts sometimes feel like gambles because we've never tried them against top calibre teams.
I think Tree is underrated because you can afford to draft greedy these days and he doesn't fall off late game. Also I'm a bigger fan of lina support than core.
The nature of replays is that they've already happened. What you're watching is going to be with hindsight. Don't be result oriented. Evaluate replays with the same fairness that you would if it were live. If you're watching a replay of a top tier team, you should get more out of it than 'they picked X to counter Y and won.' Figure out how and why both the winning and losing team got to their respective situations. Realizing the big ideas and making it your own is really important.
You should try to watch replays from one team's perspective then watch it again with both team's vision to get an overview. I don't watch pub games of other top players unless it's some unorthodox hero that is on the rise. Like broodmother when it first got released in -cm.
If you're watching your own replay, it's even more important not to be result oriented. It's easy to think 'I should've backed' after you watch yourself die but that's not realistic. If retreating was the correct move, you should figure out a reason for it that can be applied in future games. Even twitch.tv retards who are probably all terrible can talk like they know it all because they're not in the driver's seat.
From a drafter's point, I try to keep an eye out for what 'kind' of hero certain teams draft in certain situations. Drafting has a lot to do with expertise and hero pool even at the top level so you shouldn't look too much into details but what each player contributes to the team.
I don't believe there is a definitive answer to shot-calling but usually the people with the power to change things should be calling the shots. Like you say, early game is often supports followed by late game being whoever is most powerful. Some people just don't talk as much as other so this isn't always the easiest though.
In Korean culture, there's some sort of hierarchy based on age and since I'm the oldest on my team I usually have authority over my teammates. It's convenient to have an authority figure in a team so you can control the communication and overrule certain decisions. In our team, we have a rule about no discussions/arguments during a game. So when there are disagreements, we say 'after the game' and move on or make a quick decision and nobody is allowed to object to it during game.
I situationally draft mirana carry but almost no team does this any more. It might be a hero preference thing since Forev enjoys playing the hero but people usually assume it's a support during the drafting stage and are unprepared for it in the game because she comes online faster than a lot of carries. When you stomp early game with mirana, it's easy to keep the pressure on. A lot of people will disagree with me but I think she's also good vs a lot of common heroes today such as storm, troll etc.
I don't practice support heroes outside of -cm mode unless it's a hero expertise issue. I usually play cores and try to get a better feeling of what type of games they excel at since I'm the drafter that's responsible for all 5 positions. My offlane is my worst role so I want to practice it to get a better understanding but it's hard to get a good sense of how the offlane works outside of -cm mode.
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On April 11 2015 17:13 deadmau wrote:
Heen, if you are ever at MLG Anaheim, are you down for some Korean BBQ?
I prefer non-Korean food when I'm abroad but sure 
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On April 11 2015 17:49 HammerKick wrote:
If you had to nerf troll, what would you do?
Any other hero you would like to see buffed/nerfed in the next patch?
Keeping in mind how icefrog patches, nerf his strength gain and tweak his Q.
My long standing belief that 3 conditions make a hero OP (not inherently) are:
1. threatening
2. tanky or hard to kill
3. mobile
(different heroes satisfy these conditions with different items)
For spectre, it's radiance + 1 or 2 core items.
AM, pretty close to full slot.
Storm, any 2 items including bloodstone usually.
Bristleback, 1 vanguard for the early game and after that he has smooth item progression anyway so he's an imba pig.
I feel like troll gets to this stage too fast and his ability to lock down and kill an enemy core even more reliably than an aghanims doom is what makes him unfun to play against.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
what kind of support heroes would you recommend starting players learn to support on, and why?
what are the best kind of support heroes for a usually-core player to play?
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
if a big western team offered you a place on their roster after ti5, would u take it? basically, would u want to leave korea for dota
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When you play support, are there any tips you could give for effective roaming as a support? Sometimes i feel like i will leave the safe lane and try and smoke gank mid, only to have their mid tp to our safelane and gank our carry. Or just wander around ineffectually.
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On April 11 2015 17:49 HammerKick wrote:
Any other hero you would like to see buffed/nerfed in the next patch?
Sniper: sharpnel mana cost 50 to 75, does damage after 1 tick instead of insta damage on cast
Zeus: static field damage no longer disables blink dagger
Dragon Knight: reduced mana cost on Breathe fire
Death Prophet: Ult cd reduced by 15 seconds
because it's too easy to hold high ground in this patch and these kind of heroes get punished too heavily when you make mistakes and the games become quickly unwinnable.
Kunkka: armor from 2 to 4
Shadow demon: ult can be used on allies and gives movement buff instead of slow
Broodmother: removed from -cm
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On April 11 2015 18:56 opterown wrote:
what kind of support heroes would you recommend starting players learn to support on, and why?
what are the best kind of support heroes for a usually-core player to play?
Skywrath because he's easy to play early game and the nature of the hero benefiting a lot from needing good setups makes you think about your rotations and he's not too pressured with item timings and has a smooth item progression so you can be flexible in every game. You can kind of just play to the tune of the game and not worry about things like blink timings.
Witch doctor for similar reasons but he's a lot different from Skywrath in terms of play style so you learn more on counter playing opponents. Also he wrecks hard if you manage to get good XP/gold on him so people can realize how impactful support play can pay off and allow you to pretty much carry games.
For usually core-players, it might be easier to play supports who have similar options to cores.
Lina, Rhasta, Enigma, Zeus, Sand king strike me as heroes that would be easy to transition to since they have the ability to farm and benefit a lot from it. They have better comeback mechanisms than lich or crystal maiden for example.
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On April 11 2015 19:18 ahswtini wrote:
if a big western team offered you a place on their roster after ti5, would u take it? basically, would u want to leave korea for dota
Realistically no since I doubt the stability of most DotA teams and being away from home probably sucks. Maybe the younger me would have been more eager though. Now I'm just a cynical old man.
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On April 11 2015 19:19 Sassback wrote:
When you play support, are there any tips you could give for effective roaming as a support? Sometimes i feel like i will leave the safe lane and try and smoke gank mid, only to have their mid tp to our safelane and gank our carry. Or just wander around ineffectually.
You can try smoking between 2-4 min mark when it's still day time and you're lvl 2+ and the opponent has a false sense of security. You have to read the creep equilibrium before you go or communicate with your mid player so that the opposing mid is going to be vulnerable.
The second timing is usually at first night where your mid now has ult (ex. storm, puck) and your angle for engaging is more varied. You generally want to pull back the wave on your side of the lane or push waves into their tower range. The worst scenario is where the creeps are just outside their tower range and the tower is going to hit heroes only when you go for the kill.
The important thing is to realize how practical your ganks are depending on who you're vsing and who's complying with your ganks. Some heroes are just incapable of making successful rotations unless the opponent fucks up. If you're going to do the job, you have to do it right.
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what made the MVP roster changes happen (for both teams)
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Hi Heen.
Which single game from last year's KDL (out of all 4 season) was most memorable for you and why?
Not necessarily the one where you performed the cleanest, but the one where, after the game, you were like "holy shit, this is why I play Dota."
What about from TI4 Qualifier?
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Howdy Heen! What are your expectations for Korean teams going into TI Qualifiers? Also I've noticed in recent months that whenever Rave plays against MVP.P they seem to have their number. Any particular reason for this, or is it all just hoodoo?
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What do you think of Winter Wyvern and Oracle from both a fun perspective and competitive viability perspective?
Would you play them if they were added to captain's mode?
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Which teams do you predict will perform the best at TI5? Understandably this is a very early question as not all the teams are set in stone but if there is a general idea it would be nice if you could answer this.
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how to improve as a mid player something like when to farm andwhen to gank item choice i really want to know thank you
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Hi Heen just wanted to say thanks for always being gracious in victory and defeat. It owned having you guys as rivals, and I have you have a lot of success with Hot6ix!
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When you're in a heavily contested lane as a safelane carry who happens to be a relatively weak laner, say Slark, and whenever you try to CS you end up taking loads of rightclicks and possibly die to spells from the enemy heroes, what do you do to get farm? Do you even forsake farm in favor of rotating to make something happen somewhere else on the map once you have enough levels?
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Do you realistically see Dota 2 in Korea getting significantly more popular than it is now? What do you think is required if you think it's possible?
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What happened with Reisen?
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I really like you guys' gameplay during starladder. That warlock pick where noone could counter.
I noticed LoL influence on MVP Phoenix gameplay e.g tanking creeps so tower doesn't hit them. Though i think it's unnecessary because tower in dota2 hit for less damage and creeps damage is pretty significant to hero. My question is how develop/supportive/big is dota2 community in korea?
Sucks for you(to get shuffled out), your main team highly probable gonna get direct invite because there isn't many highly competitive teams on SEA. Anyway, haven't watched any hot6 games so couldn't comment on your guys games. I used to cheer for your team because it was unorthodox and over-aggressive. I found that korean team lacks versality and good composition heroes e.g EG has sumail and PPD could draft anything like treant + phoenix, batrider + earthshaker/lion. Which team you guys usually scrim with?
Not an expert of dota2 but a long time player. I would suggest batrider or axe for offlane. If you could farm dagger so fast or dominate your lane, it's basically easy mid game. Seems like they fit current "comeback mechanic", you could pressure a single high-farmed hero. Another thing i notice is you guys rarely stack ancients. I remember i saw Cloud9.EternalEnvy's excel spreadsheet that show exp and gold gain on ancient stacks, it was humongous. Since you are playing offlane, it could be great to stack it and farm it. Good luck on TI wildcard though! I wish dota2 could grow as big if not bigger than LoL in Korea.
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How would you describe your current team's play-style and what aspects/weakness are you guys focused on improving, if any?
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On April 11 2015 23:07 acidviper wrote:
What happened with Reisen?
Reisen mentioned on his Facebook that he was taking a break because a family member passed away.
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Good to see you on AMA! What is the plan for hotsix at the moment?
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On April 11 2015 21:25 teddyoojo wrote:
what made the MVP roster changes happen (for both teams)
I sort of answered this question already but our internal problems were always there. We just made compromises and overcame our differences when we needed to. Leading up to DAC, we had split views on what kind of DotA we wanted to play so were underprepared because we lacked strats that were approved by every player. And at DAC we started falling apart because we were picking random shit and it was almost like ranked matchmaking where each player would try to pick his own hero.
March and I both wanted to captain but we had opposite ideas about how to progress so we agreed to disagree and decided to part ways. It wasn't an easy decision especially since there are a shortage of players in Korea and it would most likely be a downgrade for both teams but if we're so fundamentally split, it seemed unhealthy to continue the team as it was long term.
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On April 11 2015 21:45 don_kyuhote wrote:
Hi Heen.
Which single game from last year's KDL (out of all 4 season) was most memorable for you and why?
Not necessarily the one where you performed the cleanest, but the one where, after the game, you were like "holy shit, this is why I play Dota."
What about from TI4 Qualifier?
I think our game vs PKF when ember was first released was most memorable since we were getting so wrecked and we would've easily lost if we played even 1% worse. Our team was known for deathballing with an early lead before it was popular (death prophet when nobody used it for example) so we rarely made comebacks. Comebacks are usually the most memorable and it wasn't a lame drag out the game with split push comeback. We were so behind we had to play with fire to win. I remember being nervous throughout the entire game.
In TI4 Qualis I think the game vs. Mineski was that kind of game. We were in a bad spot and the enemy Tinker had a hex but their invoker cycloned QO so he was able to BKB or something (might've been slark ult) and we instawon the team fight and won. A lot of the games in TI4 Qualis were stompy so that's the only one I remember.
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On April 11 2015 21:58 LimitSEA wrote:
Howdy Heen! What are your expectations for Korean teams going into TI Qualifiers? Also I've noticed in recent months that whenever Rave plays against MVP.P they seem to have their number. Any particular reason for this, or is it all just hoodoo?
I'm going to guess that Rave gets a direct invite for the SEA region. MVP.P will have a pretty good shot at getting 1st in the qualifiers. Rave excels at late game whereas MVP.P's style is focused on securing a lead and inflating it enough to finish the game before things get out of control. I think a lot of it is mental because if you're pressured by time, you definitely won't play your best and you're prone to tunnel visioning and stuff.
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On April 11 2015 22:18 DropBear wrote:
What do you think of Winter Wyvern and Oracle from both a fun perspective and competitive viability perspective?
Would you play them if they were added to captain's mode?
They're surprisingly unfun to play imo but definitely viable in competitive. Oracle is probably ridiculously good in a coordinated setting. I'm surprised WW wasn't considered that imba in DotA1. Maybe it changed a little but his ult and physical immunity seem perfect for this meta.
I prefer playing defensive, counter-play supports so I'd play them if they were added but I'm afraid I would need to grind them in pubs before I could play them at an acceptable level.
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why dont you stream anymore?
and would you move to a caster/analyses type role if given the chance?
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What do you think needs to change to level up the field between Radiant and Dire ?
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Thanks for doing this. I have couple of questions:
1/ How was the addition of jeraxai materialized? And how do you value your team right now compare to before his arrival?
2/ What is your team primary way to practice? If you scrim, which teams are your go to scrim partners aside from MVP.P?
3/ If given a chance, would you go to another country(China/Malaysia/Sweden/US etc..) to play for a foreign team?
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Pretty cool to see do this AMA, I'm one of your few stream viewers ^^
Where's the team house located? Any chance of making a video like teamliquid used to do for their teamhouse? Always nice to see how's it like for progamers.
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On April 11 2015 22:23 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Which teams do you predict will perform the best at TI5? Understandably this is a very early question as not all the teams are set in stone but if there is a general idea it would be nice if you could answer this.
EG because they have stability in both gameplay and draft.
VG because they're super skilled although I don't understand a lot of their drafts.
I think those 2 teams have been the best performers overall since TI4. Yeah, they got 1st and 2nd at DAC respectively but I don't think there was ever a time when people considered them to be slumping or washed up. Stability is really important because it relates to confidence. And confidence matters a lot in LAN.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
So how is Dota performing in Korea? In terms of the pub scene/raw number of players/numbers of competitive-worthy players?
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On April 11 2015 22:45 soilcow wrote:
how to improve as a mid player something like when to farm andwhen to gank item choice i really want to know thank you
You should focus on a few heroes at a time and slowly expand your hero pool once you feel you've somewhat mastered key ideas on those heroes to the point that it's not efficient to improve any more. On a scale of 0 to 10, improving a hero from 4 to 6 is easier than improving a hero from 6 to 8. Set a goal for yourself, let's say 8. Practice a hero until you hit 8. Then move on to another.
You should look up replays of good performances on your hero of choice and watch the player closely. You have to establish what he's doing that allows him to be impactful rather than memorizing his skill builds and item builds. Try to watch 2-3 games each of 2-3 different players. This way you don't get a biased version of how the hero is 'supposed' to be played. Even TI level players do stuff out of preference and habit so you have to decide for yourself what's worth copying and what's open to interpretation.
If you play too diverse of a hero pool, it's hard to tell how much progress you're making. Stay disciplined.
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On April 11 2015 22:57 Blitz wrote:
Hi Heen just wanted to say thanks for always being gracious in victory and defeat. It owned having you guys as rivals, and I have you have a lot of success with Hot6ix!
Blitzu! Thanks for the kind words. I hope we bump into each other at some LAN soon!
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Hello Heen!
Thank you for doing this!
However, I was wondering why you did not do this on reddit since you could have potentially gotten the team and yourself more exposure.
How has JerAx help strengthen the team? Providing new insight on the game? More Western type style of playing?
Where is Dubu now? I think he has potential the same way with Reisen to be really good on support.
Do you see any of the other Korean eSports organizations (eg: CJ Entus, Samsung, SK Telecom, Jin Air, KT Rolster, NaJin) picking up a DotA2 team any time soon?
Thank you again and good luck to MVPHot6ix hope you guys get invited to TI5 Qualifiers
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On April 11 2015 22:57 Fencar wrote:
When you're in a heavily contested lane as a safelane carry who happens to be a relatively weak laner, say Slark, and whenever you try to CS you end up taking loads of rightclicks and possibly die to spells from the enemy heroes, what do you do to get farm? Do you even forsake farm in favor of rotating to make something happen somewhere else on the map once you have enough levels?
If it's something ridiculous like a slark dual lane vs axe dual lane, I'd try to get a feeling of whether I can outskill the lane. Once I establish that farming the lane takes a lot of risk, I would either ask my laning partner to leave the lane and create noise somewhere else or leave myself. This is because if gold is not a practical reward in the lane, making the lane solo so that the XP is efficient is better than investing multiple people to suffer.
Each hero has its own strengths. For slark, you can recover by maxing dark pact and jungling, which only requires levels.
Accept that the lane is unwinnable and check runes, clear small/medium camp, maybe stack for mid if it's convenient etc. XP is generally more important than gold to make come backs from a bad laning stage.
If you put yourself in the opponent's shoes, dominant lanes are only fun when your opponents are trying to do something about it when they can't. When a slark gets a random invis rune @ minute 4 and ganks mid successfully, things don't seem so fun any more.
Also, on slark if you can manage to get some cs on the first few waves before the lane gets out of control, you can rush PMS and orb of venom and cheese the lane @ lvl 2 and beat stuff like Viper before it becomes too late.
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Hello, would like to ask 2 questions
1) what do you think of ta mid with regards to the current meta?
2) any particular reasons why most of the troll we see nowadays are playing position 1, rather than mid lane which was the most common spot for him during his previous surge of popularity (back before the whirling axe damage nerf)
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On April 11 2015 23:06 Namarot wrote:
Do you realistically see Dota 2 in Korea getting significantly more popular than it is now? What do you think is required if you think it's possible?
I don't. It's hard to explain why though. It's a combination of Koreans being drawn to games that give you a feeling of progress/growth and good exposure in the media. DotA is neither here.
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On April 11 2015 23:07 acidviper wrote:
What happened with Reisen?
I don't think he'll be playing DotA competitively for some time. He's playing LoL for fun these days...
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How was your experience in the Korean military?
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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On April 11 2015 23:16 PagePincher wrote:
I really like you guys' gameplay during starladder. That warlock pick where noone could counter.
I noticed LoL influence on MVP Phoenix gameplay e.g tanking creeps so tower doesn't hit them. Though i think it's unnecessary because tower in dota2 hit for less damage and creeps damage is pretty significant to hero. My question is how develop/supportive/big is dota2 community in korea?
Sucks for you(to get shuffled out), your main team highly probable gonna get direct invite because there isn't many highly competitive teams on SEA. Anyway, haven't watched any hot6 games so couldn't comment on your guys games. I used to cheer for your team because it was unorthodox and over-aggressive. I found that korean team lacks versality and good composition heroes e.g EG has sumail and PPD could draft anything like treant + phoenix, batrider + earthshaker/lion. Which team you guys usually scrim with?
Not an expert of dota2 but a long time player. I would suggest batrider or axe for offlane. If you could farm dagger so fast or dominate your lane, it's basically easy mid game. Seems like they fit current "comeback mechanic", you could pressure a single high-farmed hero. Another thing i notice is you guys rarely stack ancients. I remember i saw Cloud9.EternalEnvy's excel spreadsheet that show exp and gold gain on ancient stacks, it was humongous. Since you are playing offlane, it could be great to stack it and farm it. Good luck on TI wildcard though! I wish dota2 could grow as big if not bigger than LoL in Korea.
I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about on towers and creeps. LoL had nothing to do with how we played -0-
A lot of people don't understand that teams are made up of human beings and they have weaknesses. Comfort zones are a real thing and not many teams have the balls to YOLO and draft something they haven't tested extensively in a match over thousands of dollars. If anything I'd say EG's strength in draft is consistency rather than diversity.
We usually scrim SEA teams (most of the major ones) and occasionally the lesser known Korean/Chinese teams.
The ancient stacking thing is a fair point and we've gotten better at it recently. Jerax is an efficiency mania.
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On April 12 2015 01:16 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 23:06 Namarot wrote:
Do you realistically see Dota 2 in Korea getting significantly more popular than it is now? What do you think is required if you think it's possible? I don't. It's hard to explain why though. It's a combination of Koreans being drawn to games that give you a feeling of progress/growth and good exposure in the media. DotA is neither here.
I see what you mean. I guess not even just marketing from Valve/Nexon by itself would help the situation and there would have to be more than just MMR and cosmetic item drops as "progression". Even if those happened, it would take a miracle to get people away from LoL. Unfortunate.
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On April 11 2015 23:22 stopthatdude wrote:
How would you describe your current team's play-style and what aspects/weakness are you guys focused on improving, if any?
Sorry, I don't feel comfortable answering this question since this thread is public.
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On April 11 2015 23:38 AquaHeartNJH wrote:
Good to see you on AMA! What is the plan for hotsix at the moment?
Hello Aqua nim~
I don't know to be honest lol!
We qualified for MPGL so we're going to Malaysia in May and we're playing some lesser known tournaments and keeping it humble for the time being. Our immediate goal is to prove that we're worthy of a TI quali invite.
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On April 12 2015 00:20 vizuaLize wrote:
why dont you stream anymore?
and would you move to a caster/analyses type role if given the chance?
I blame our sleeping schedules which have been super random. We scrim almost daily and I have to analyze replays so there's less time than you might think. I don't like streaming for a few hours at a time. I prefer epic streaming sessions of at least 10+ hours :p
I would love to try casting/analysis if I had to move on from being a player but I'm not sure how I would do. Thinking and speaking are completely different!
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On April 12 2015 00:23 SpiZe wrote:
What do you think needs to change to level up the field between Radiant and Dire ?
Which side are you implying has the upper hand?
Based on the coin-toss in matches, it seems mostly a matter of preference.
Relative to past versions, the map itself is pretty balanced so far but some asymmetries I don't agree with are:
Radiant ancients being safer to farm than Dire ancients.
Blindly dewarding radiant pull camp being a crap shoot instead of detective work.
Radiant having better ward spots centered around mid T1s.
Radiant rubick being able to cliff offlaners on their rune check attempts is retarded. How is it that Pudge and Vengeful were once forbidden from carrying blink daggers for this same reason but now it's possible at level 1?
Even then, I try to be careful about these kind of things because DotA's asymmetrical map is pretty well balanced and it's hard to know what side-effects 'intuitive' changes will bring.
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Well maybe it's just my own impression I don't know.
Nowadays I just feel like it's easier to play Radiant, you have a really accessible jungle camp as a mid, allowing to even out a lane thats not going so well or farm faster without relying on your teammates, even the mid lane in itself feels safer. I feel it's a bit harder as Dire where you don't have this easy way out of the early game. Just wanted to know how you felt
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Do you have a map for the neutral creep camps, indicating wards to block them, when to pull (into which direction etc.?
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On April 12 2015 00:29 NB wrote:
Thanks for doing this. I have couple of questions:
1/ How was the addition of jeraxai materialized? And how do you value your team right now compare to before his arrival?
2/ What is your team primary way to practice? If you scrim, which teams are your go to scrim partners aside from MVP.P?
3/ If given a chance, would you go to another country(China/Malaysia/Sweden/US etc..) to play for a foreign team?
1. At first we had some different ideas about the game but we've made a lot of progress aligning our vision of DotA. I think we're blending nicely because Jerax has a very active, aggressive play style whereas I'm more passive and focus on stability. Basically we balance each other out as a support duo so that we're aggressive enough without taking too many risks.
2. We try to scrim as many teams as possible in order to encounter as many strats. In the long term, it's not healthy to scrim a handful of teams because you start taking certain things for granted even though you shouldn't. I believe we've scrimmed vs most of the known teams in the SEA region. We enjoy playing vs the Chinese occasionally because they have a completely different style of drafting/playing. I think it's important to actively discuss what you learned after a game so that everyone gets on the same page about how they think about the game. Execution errors are not as important as discussing the big ideas so people aren't confused about what purpose they serve in the game. Like I mentioned earlier, it's impractical to have discussions during a game. So talking about what went well and poorly after every game prevents the need for discussions in future games.
3. I would rather not leave Korea but if I had to choose I would probably go with Europe or America simply because I've seen enough of Asia
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On April 11 2015 17:59 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 17:13 deadmau wrote:
Heen, if you are ever at MLG Anaheim, are you down for some Korean BBQ? I prefer non-Korean food when I'm abroad but sure
In that case some Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles? XD
On a more serious note, are there any especially bad lanes that you can recall drafting/having drafted against you? (the worse the better)
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On April 12 2015 00:46 drsnuggles wrote:
Pretty cool to see do this AMA, I'm one of your few stream viewers ^^
Where's the team house located? Any chance of making a video like teamliquid used to do for their teamhouse? Always nice to see how's it like for progamers.
We're located in an apartment in Incheon, 1 hour drive from Seoul. I don't think we'll do a video any time soon but it's nothing special to be honest. It's like a permanent LAN party where we scrim for a few hours every day and how to spend the rest is up to you. It's like a regular house minus the personal space.
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On April 12 2015 00:56 opterown wrote:
So how is Dota performing in Korea? In terms of the pub scene/raw number of players/numbers of competitive-worthy players?
Too few I'm afraid.
https://rjackson.me/tools/mmstats/ shows how unpopulated the Korean server is.
Korean games can be really clowny because 6k players can get matched with 2k calibre players.
There are some people who have potential to play competitively but I don't think there are enough tournaments and incentive to bother doing it. For it to be worth it for people to commit fully, they have to look to foreign tournaments which is a big step from playing for fun.
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On April 12 2015 01:07 AznJDragon wrote:
Hello Heen!
Thank you for doing this!
However, I was wondering why you did not do this on reddit since you could have potentially gotten the team and yourself more exposure.
How has JerAx help strengthen the team? Providing new insight on the game? More Western type style of playing?
Where is Dubu now? I think he has potential the same way with Reisen to be really good on support.
Do you see any of the other Korean eSports organizations (eg: CJ Entus, Samsung, SK Telecom, Jin Air, KT Rolster, NaJin) picking up a DotA2 team any time soon?
Thank you again and good luck to MVPHot6ix hope you guys get invited to TI5 Qualifiers
I don't think I can keep up with reddit's response rate since I answer these questions in between games and free time.
Jerax had a noticeably European mindset when he first came here. I'm in the process of brainwashing him into the Korean ways of 5 manning because we feel like it. Jokes aside though, he offers a lot of different perspectives about the game. He values efficiency and risk/reward a lot. In a way, it's nice because SEA/Korea has a simpler way of looking at DotA imo.
DuBu is grinding games as he is teamless but lives in our team house. He gets some friendly flame amongst us but he's a super tryharder so maybe he'll blossom one day!
Big Korean organizations probably won't jump in unless the DotA scene gets bigger in Korea and we make waves in the international scene. It doesn't work the other way around sadly.
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Oh wow that's really poor - what happened there? Do you think there is something Valve could have done differently to popularize Dota in Korea in the past?
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On April 12 2015 01:11 zelphin wrote:
Hello, would like to ask 2 questions
1) what do you think of ta mid with regards to the current meta?
2) any particular reasons why most of the troll we see nowadays are playing position 1, rather than mid lane which was the most common spot for him during his previous surge of popularity (back before the whirling axe damage nerf)
TA is underrated by most teams imo. Her refraction+blink buff was pretty big and on a hero-to-hero level, she's good on paper vs a lot of the popular heroes in circulation today. She's strong enough that if a player is confident enough in the hero, she can overcome a lot of seemingly bad matchups. She's heavily reliant on aegis though. So you have to draft a lineup that gives her a good shot at getting timely roshans.
Troll doesn't benefit that much from levels as he does gold. Troll hitting lvl 6 at mid doesn't set off alarms. Side shop is really convenient for him since most of his early purchases can be made there. He's a strong laner but there a lot of things about mid that aren't as advantageous for him such as
- not having enough chasing room
- him being pretty squishy early on
- not the best wave-clear or anti-wave clear
Also it's better for a carry to go into the jungle so that someone else can take the free lane since offlaners aren't as threatening. If troll is mid and he tries to share the lane efficiency by going into the jungle, supports can't just take his place vs heroes like sniper or lina.
People also figured out that he's a lot stronger as the #1 farm priority carry than people gave him credit for.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On April 12 2015 03:30 LemOn wrote:
Oh wow that's really poor - what happened there? Do you think there is something Valve could have done differently to popularize Dota in Korea in the past?
honestly it was just that riot got there first and did their marketing REALLY well. also as heen put it, korean ppl like the account progression idea (i mean maplestory the king of grindy mmos is korean)
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On April 12 2015 01:19 Wala.Revolution wrote:
How was your experience in the Korean military?
It was satisfying enough. People worry that you might have to spend time with a bad bunch if you're unlucky. I was fortunate enough to be stationed with reasonable, likeable people for the most part. It sucked that I barely played any DotA for 2 years so I felt mega washed up when I was discharged but mostly good memories compared to bad ones.
You have to deal with a lot of irrational bullshit sometimes but that can be a virtue, right? You sort of develop a humbled view of life. Appreciation for the little things! I remember thinking I would pay $1000 just to sit on a sofa for an hour during bootcamp.
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On April 12 2015 03:10 les wrote:
Do you have a map for the neutral creep camps, indicating wards to block them, when to pull (into which direction etc.?
Some of my teammates have screenshots but I sort of memorize them although I still have a lot of holes in my warding knowledge.
I don't think you should learn how to pull based on time. You should do it based on visual information of your creeps on the minimap. It's more reliable since when you pull can change depending on what camps you get and there can be random movements like an offlaner trying to cut your wave which delays the creeps.
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I don't have anything to ask, just want to say thanks heen for doing this ama.
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On April 12 2015 03:13 Froadac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 17:59 Heen wrote:On April 11 2015 17:13 deadmau wrote:
Heen, if you are ever at MLG Anaheim, are you down for some Korean BBQ? I prefer non-Korean food when I'm abroad but sure In that case some Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles? XD On a more serious note, are there any especially bad lanes that you can recall drafting/having drafted against you? (the worse the better)
Sure!
In a minor tournament, some unknown team drafted tidehunter. I picked gyrocopter, blocked his ancients and sat in front of his tower with rocket barrage ready. I think he was level 1 @ 8 minutes.
In another game, we picked zeus mid and they sent wisp/ck. Blood was shed.
I think the most one-sided ones are axe aggro lanes when you made the mistake of assuming it was an axe solo offlane and drafted greedy heroes.
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On April 12 2015 05:05 GranDGranT wrote:
Do you miss Jubei?
No doubt.
I'm not sure if he feels the same though 
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Heen! High five!
Not a question, but no matter what happens now, I'll always remember the big plays you and everyone else in the old MVP.P made. It's a shame it didn't work out.
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How do you even play undying? Some sort of aggressive offlane like maybe with skywrath seems to be ok. Do you want to focus on getting decay down to a 4 sec cd or getting that tombstone hp higher or is maxing soul rip the choice? Do you even choose to skip the ultimate at 6? I'm not even sure what items to go on him. Phase boots with an oov? Tranq & soul ring? Atos, mek, blademail? This hero seems so in-versatile in the draft and yet his skill build and item build are so game dependent. Any thoughts on the hero would be nice.
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On April 12 2015 01:10 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 22:57 Fencar wrote:
When you're in a heavily contested lane as a safelane carry who happens to be a relatively weak laner, say Slark, and whenever you try to CS you end up taking loads of rightclicks and possibly die to spells from the enemy heroes, what do you do to get farm? Do you even forsake farm in favor of rotating to make something happen somewhere else on the map once you have enough levels? If it's something ridiculous like a slark dual lane vs axe dual lane, I'd try to get a feeling of whether I can outskill the lane. Once I establish that farming the lane takes a lot of risk, I would either ask my laning partner to leave the lane and create noise somewhere else or leave myself. This is because if gold is not a practical reward in the lane, making the lane solo so that the XP is efficient is better than investing multiple people to suffer. Each hero has its own strengths. For slark, you can recover by maxing dark pact and jungling, which only requires levels. Accept that the lane is unwinnable and check runes, clear small/medium camp, maybe stack for mid if it's convenient etc. XP is generally more important than gold to make come backs from a bad laning stage. If you put yourself in the opponent's shoes, dominant lanes are only fun when your opponents are trying to do something about it when they can't. When a slark gets a random invis rune @ minute 4 and ganks mid successfully, things don't seem so fun any more. Also, on slark if you can manage to get some cs on the first few waves before the lane gets out of control, you can rush PMS and orb of venom and cheese the lane @ lvl 2 and beat stuff like Viper before it becomes too late.
Sounds good, I'll try out PMS OOV combo sometime!
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On April 11 2015 17:59 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2015 17:13 deadmau wrote:
Heen, if you are ever at MLG Anaheim, are you down for some Korean BBQ? I prefer non-Korean food when I'm abroad but sure
I'm not claiming to be an expert in Korean food, that would be a terrible insult to you. I would like to show you how great the Korean experience is here from my PoV though, maybe you will be surprised. Beef + Soju, how can you go wrong?
I just watched the match against EG, congrats, I was cheering so hard.
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Sad to see the TI4 MvP line-up part ways but I hope both teams can do well!
+ Show Spoiler + ;~;
Anyone heroes this patch you think are underutilized and not given enough pro play time atm?
Predictions for TI5 top 5...Chinese dominance this year again?
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What is the best way for a position 5 support to get gold? Particularly if you die a lot (squishy supports being prime early game targets) it seems to be difficult when playing in a 5stack to get any farm (in pubs it's easier because people farm poorly). At best by the end of the game I might have brown boots, an urn, and wards/tp/smoke/dust throughout the game.
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On April 12 2015 01:29 Namarot wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 01:16 Heen wrote:On April 11 2015 23:06 Namarot wrote:
Do you realistically see Dota 2 in Korea getting significantly more popular than it is now? What do you think is required if you think it's possible? I don't. It's hard to explain why though. It's a combination of Koreans being drawn to games that give you a feeling of progress/growth and good exposure in the media. DotA is neither here. I see what you mean. I guess not even just marketing from Valve/Nexon by itself would help the situation and there would have to be more than just MMR and cosmetic item drops as "progression". Even if those happened, it would take a miracle to get people away from LoL. Unfortunate.
I wonder if Valve gonna get involve in this and did what they did like CS in Korea. Made it free and "progressive" gain.
I think dota2 always depend on the community such as website, exposure to games replay in your language and constant hype. Such a shame, since dota2 fit the LAN cafe environment more than LoL.
On April 12 2015 03:30 LemOn wrote:
Oh wow that's really poor - what happened there? Do you think there is something Valve could have done differently to popularize Dota in Korea in the past?
If only they released the game earlier than LoL, it could have boomed. It was perfect timing. SC2 wasn't well received and Broodwar was basically killed by Blizzard. Imo, it would be great if they do consistent small korean tournaments to attract new players first. Most of overseas tournament are english speaking which doesn't appeal to most koreans.
Are there korean community dota2 website? Like gosugamers or TLdota? How big is it?
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Lalalaland34495 Posts
Thanks Heen for the amazing ama!
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heen, how to be sexy like you?
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On April 12 2015 06:00 recomence wrote:
How do you even play undying? Some sort of aggressive offlane like maybe with skywrath seems to be ok. Do you want to focus on getting decay down to a 4 sec cd or getting that tombstone hp higher or is maxing soul rip the choice? Do you even choose to skip the ultimate at 6? I'm not even sure what items to go on him. Phase boots with an oov? Tranq & soul ring? Atos, mek, blademail? This hero seems so in-versatile in the draft and yet his skill build and item build are so game dependent. Any thoughts on the hero would be nice.
I don't really enjoy playing Undying but a lot of Undying's strengths lie in laning and tombstone abuse.
You don't have to get tombstone maxed by lvl 7 sharp but if you aren't maxing it relatively early, I don't see much point to picking the hero. I personally prefer going 1-1-4-1 or 2-1-4-0 at lvl 7.
Your role should be acting as an anchor for your team to take good engagements. Phase boots+OoV implies that you're gonna hit people and be on the outskirts of your team's formation. I think tranqs are much better because there aren't many ways to get armor on him other than mek/blademail which are situational items on this hero. If you have great start, Arcane's might pay off better though. You're job isn't to do damage, it's to be a semi frontline for your team that's annoying enough to draw aggro but tanky enough to make their job hard.
Mek
Blademail
Atos
Pipe
Crimson Guard
Bloodstone
Urn
Eul's
Shiva's guard
are all good choices because it suits your needs for being useful and more importantly have good buildup so that you don't fall off so quickly.
You want to force your opponents to take fights where it's hard to commit too much because of Undying. This usually includes objectives such as rosh or tower. I feel the best use of Undying is to force the opponents to take bad trades or risk getting fucked over by running into Undying's full arsenal. One example might be having a batrider on your team where you can lasso someone and you run in with ult and put a tombstone down so that you either get a free kill or they have to run into uncomfortable territory. Venge is really nice too because you can offensive swap and set up a tombstone so it's almost like fighting inside your tower.
It's hard to make good use of Undying without these types of catch where you forcefully change their position because if you just put a tombstone down before you take action to make them commit (initiation), they can move out of Tombstone range and fight in a more comfortable spot.
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On April 12 2015 07:03 DeMoN. wrote:
Hi Heen, do you miss me?
Come back to Korea for TI6!
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Thanks for the reply. Very interesting idea to bring them into your tomb and that it's like fighting under tower. I never thought of it this way.
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Russian Federation8 Posts
How did you feel when at TI4 you lost to Liquid after a win over Virtus.Pro and thus stopped one step from the actual groupstage? What did you do for all these days? Just watched TI as a bunch of common spectators?
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Hi Heen,
I've been playing alot of DP but it's been pretty much not so effective so i got to ask after phase euls
when do you buy drums/shivas/heart/etc other items over the other ? also when should i pick DP ?
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On April 12 2015 07:33 RiceSeoul wrote:Sad to see the TI4 MvP line-up part ways but I hope both teams can do well! + Show Spoiler + ;~;Anyone heroes this patch you think are underutilized and not given enough pro play time atm? Predictions for TI5 top 5...Chinese dominance this year again?
Tree is pretty good because of rubberband mechanics and his anti-BKB ult.
Omniknight since high ground is all the craze these days.
I haven't tried enough but I think Chaos Knight can be potentially really good even without wisp.
I don't think the Chinese will be that dominant. Neither have they been for a long time. I think top 5 TI5 will be a 2/3 split either way between the west and east.
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On April 12 2015 11:05 Birdie wrote:
What is the best way for a position 5 support to get gold? Particularly if you die a lot (squishy supports being prime early game targets) it seems to be difficult when playing in a 5stack to get any farm (in pubs it's easier because people farm poorly). At best by the end of the game I might have brown boots, an urn, and wards/tp/smoke/dust throughout the game.
It really depends on which hero you're playing but generally if you want to stay relevant, you have to keep an eye out for free lanes that the cores can't go to. For example, when your mid SF is clearly jungle stacks, you want to be leeching mid. Tranq + soul ring combo generally provides you with the sustain to mimic flash farm.
You should also plan your item builds smartly. By that I mean you need item progression that is appropriate for your rate of income. You don't want to queue blink dagger too early in the game because it's the most expensive purchase you can make as a support.
Always queue next items so you lose less gold on death by using up your unreliable gold. If you're building mek for example, and you happen to have 600 gold, hold on to it and see if you can build up to 900 gold then buy the recipe first.
In a winning game, you should buy a gem if you have your core items so that you don't over purchase consumables. It also puts a lot of pressure on the enemy supports so you'll widen the gap between yourself and them.
80% of being a good 5 is being at the right place at the right time though. There are limits to how much farm a 5 can get but you shouldn't be struggling with brown boots and crap items post-mid game, especially in pubs. Piggy back off your cores. Help them secure objectives. You get richer just by surviving fights. As weird as it might sound, getting a respectable level of farm on a 5 is less about farming and more about being efficient with your gold and survival instincts.
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On April 13 2015 00:39 Firebolt145 wrote:
Thanks Heen for the amazing ama!
np, glad you're enjoying it!
On April 13 2015 00:47 CodeskyE wrote:
heen, how to be sexy like you?
Play more Rhasta.
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On April 13 2015 18:48 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 07:33 RiceSeoul wrote:Sad to see the TI4 MvP line-up part ways but I hope both teams can do well! + Show Spoiler + ;~;Anyone heroes this patch you think are underutilized and not given enough pro play time atm? Predictions for TI5 top 5...Chinese dominance this year again? Tree is pretty good because of rubberband mechanics and his anti-BKB ult. Omniknight since high ground is all the craze these days. I haven't tried enough but I think Chaos Knight can be potentially really good even without wisp. I don't think the Chinese will be that dominant. Neither have they been for a long time. I think top 5 TI5 will be a 2/3 split either way between the west and east.
hi. would you suggest a support or offlane omni?
also any heroes you think are underrated on the offlane either as a solo or apart of a dual lane?
thanks .
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On April 13 2015 02:58 ultra_v1olence wrote:
How did you feel when at TI4 you lost to Liquid after a win over Virtus.Pro and thus stopped one step from the actual groupstage? What did you do for all these days? Just watched TI as a bunch of common spectators?
We were pretty heart broken for a day or two since we threw hard on the 1st game.
Mostly we used the practice lounge to grind MMR. We'd watch the games as well but keeping busy was the easiest way to wash away the sadness of broken dreams!
You tend to get hungry for more if good things happen to you in life. When we first secured our trip to Seattle, we were super happy and honored to have made it to TI. But when we didn't make it through the Wildcard, it was still just as hard to accept that we failed our mission
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On April 13 2015 22:29 goody153 wrote:
Heen senpai ignored me Your question was stupidly vague (in the sense of being related to Heen), not surprising - go ask it in SQSA.
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On April 13 2015 22:35 JD. wrote: Your question was stupidly vague (in the sense of being related to Heen), not surprising - go ask it in SQSA.
no, heen is just replying in order.
also many of the questions have been regarding general strategy too.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On April 13 2015 22:35 JD. wrote: Your question was stupidly vague (in the sense of being related to Heen), not surprising - go ask it in SQSA.
no it wasnt
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On April 14 2015 00:51 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:35 JD. wrote:On April 13 2015 22:29 goody153 wrote:
Heen senpai ignored me Your question was stupidly vague (in the sense of being related to Heen), not surprising - go ask it in SQSA. no it wasnt
Oh come on, I'm all for Heen answering it with his opinion but "what to buy after phase/euls?" And "when to pick DP?" can't go in Simple Questions, Simple Answers?
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What's most important to pay attention to when analyzing one's own replays?
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On April 13 2015 03:26 goody153 wrote:
Hi Heen,
I've been playing alot of DP but it's been pretty much not so effective so i got to ask after phase euls
when do you buy drums/shivas/heart/etc other items over the other ? also when should i pick DP ?
I dislike drums on DP because it doesn't really do much. The stats seem nice when you first get it but DP usually has slot issues.
You'll almost always end up going Bottle Phase Euls.
After that you should choose between:
Bloodstone
BKB
Atos
Heart
Shivas
You might notice that they're all survivability increasing items. You're still squishy with phase euls so you need more survivability.
Bloodstone: this is a nice item if you can get it early enough. It solves all mana issues (Euls is not enough) so you can itemize afterwards without thinking about mana sustain (Heart+shivas for example). DP is usually a high priority target so later on you might get bursted and your team cleans up and you can revive faster than they do and follow up on objectives. Also, never forget the +heal on death.
BKB: a must have item vs compositions that can burst you down (tidehunter centaur lina skywrath etc.) If they go on you, you want to Euls yourself first so your teammates can get in position and if they seem to commit anyway, preclick BKB so that you BKB on the first frame you land. You don't want to BKB every time a vengeful throws a stun at you. You wanna Euls yourself and see how far they are willing to commit.
Atos: This is a really aggresive item on DP. It's particularly useful vs heroes that don't want to purchase an early BKB and are useless if kited. TA, Bristleback, Wraith King, etc. Even after they get BKB, Atos can force them to use BKB at sub-optimal timings.
Heart: Pure tank item that you would go instead of BKB if BKB weren't to help much. I think in the current patch, heart is less desirable as a followup to Euls. It's nice to be able to tank towers indefinitely and never have to worry about sustain though.
Shivas: Good vs. Physical heavy lineups that need to be kited as well. Bonus points if their physical DPS has low attack speed to begin with (Slardar, TA, Razor etc).
As for when to pick DP, you should take it when you have good enough control heroes but no one to really hit objectives. Clockwerk, Batrider, Centaur, Slardar, Lion etc. I don't think DP is good in pushing lineups any more. Straight up pushing in an honest fashion is too inefficient. You want to use DP as a tool to secure your team objectives after pickoffs. Apply pressure on the map, get a pickoff, get a tower or rosh and repeat. Or you can push all the lanes and trap them to a smaller area and then push so there's no need to deal with split push shenanigans.
Also, I think refresher orb is a must late-game. At least as one of your full-slot items. Sometimes, you have to use your ult even for 1 kill but if you can't go high ground because of that, this hero sucks.
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I don't think DP is good in pushing lineups any more. Straight up pushing in an honest fashion is too inefficient. You want to use DP as a tool to secure your team objectives after pickoffs. Apply pressure on the map, get a pickoff, get a tower or rosh and repeat.
That's actually why i play dp yey at least i got one thing right lol
I mean from what i've noticed when i don't go drums after euls the hero feels too squishy and the next item is always too long to attain(shivas./heart or something and i don't like bloodstone feels like it doesn't give that much hp) that's why i go drums.
If you don't mind i'm gonna ask again. What's the usual timing in getting the other items after euls especially expensive ones like heart ? also when do determine if i should go use ult for a kill ? sometimes i use the ult but it doesn't do anything and i feel like it's a waste
also thanks for the answer heen-senpai
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On April 13 2015 21:44 Sizmo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 18:48 Heen wrote:On April 12 2015 07:33 RiceSeoul wrote:Sad to see the TI4 MvP line-up part ways but I hope both teams can do well! + Show Spoiler + ;~;Anyone heroes this patch you think are underutilized and not given enough pro play time atm? Predictions for TI5 top 5...Chinese dominance this year again? Tree is pretty good because of rubberband mechanics and his anti-BKB ult. Omniknight since high ground is all the craze these days. I haven't tried enough but I think Chaos Knight can be potentially really good even without wisp. I don't think the Chinese will be that dominant. Neither have they been for a long time. I think top 5 TI5 will be a 2/3 split either way between the west and east. hi. would you suggest a support or offlane omni? also any heroes you think are underrated on the offlane either as a solo or apart of a dual lane? thanks .
Our team used more offlane omni than support so I might be biased but if you see an angle for omni offlane, I think it pays off more. Early on, you need levels on that hero more than anything. Later on, he does need items which forces him to have a decent farm priority. He's actually capable of being much more aggressive than most people give him credit for. People don't respect degen aura + Orb of Venom. My rationale for omni offlane is that you want him to be lvl 7+ when your other cores hit their first peak timings. Think SF mek, blink puck/brewmaster, Vanguard bristleback.
I'm pretty conservative about drafting anything out of the textbook offlaners so I lack ideas but zeus as a dual offlane supporter is underrated. You can go to the offlane with mass clarities and make it difficult for their safelane to zone out your primary offlaner because of his arc lightning burst and how safely you can do it. When you need to clarity up, you can check runes or stack ancients. It doesn't always work though. The best uses are when you enable your offlaner to get something out of your presence because zeus in the safe lane doesn't do shit other than pull.
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On April 14 2015 02:44 Buckyman wrote:
What's most important to pay attention to when analyzing one's own replays?
You need ways to improve future decision making that isn't hindsight based. If something bad happened, go back in time to the point where it all began and find out if there were any clues that could've helped you not run into that situation in the first place.
Compare the game flow to your itemization. If you went mek but haven't used it impactfully, it was probably the wrong choice. If you went Medallion but haven't cleared ancients or rosh, you probably didn't need to.
Honestly, you look for different things for different heroes though. On AM, you should pay attention to your farming routes and efficiency. On batrider, you should pay attention to how long your lasso is off cooldown in relation to how often you're being shown on the map.
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On April 14 2015 03:25 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +I don't think DP is good in pushing lineups any more. Straight up pushing in an honest fashion is too inefficient. You want to use DP as a tool to secure your team objectives after pickoffs. Apply pressure on the map, get a pickoff, get a tower or rosh and repeat. That's actually why i play dp yey at least i got one thing right lol I mean from what i've noticed when i don't go drums after euls the hero feels too squishy and the next item is always too long to attain(shivas./heart or something and i don't like bloodstone feels like it doesn't give that much hp) that's why i go drums. If you don't mind i'm gonna ask again. What's the usual timing in getting the other items after euls especially expensive ones like heart ? also when do determine if i should go use ult for a kill ? sometimes i use the ult but it doesn't do anything and i feel like it's a waste also thanks for the answer heen-senpai
9 strength doesn't really change anything and surely lack of movement speed is not the reason you're dying. A casual vit booster arguably gives you better survivability for less gold. DP is mostly about positioning. The reason for tanking up is because your opponents are going to have gap closers or better ways of doing damage to you other than walking up. At the point you have Phase Bottle Euls (somewhere around 10~14 minutes), not much can kill you unless you choose to fight back. I'm not sure about the standard timings on DP other than up to eul's but item timings are different for every skill bracket anyway so it's not that important.
Shivas and Heart don't have the best item progression. That might be why you're finding it hard. Bloodstone is easy to make and gives better farm so you can try that. Also, DP can contribute to the team by pushing out waves so that it creates a better environment for your team to get pickoffs. The sustain from Eul's alone isn't enough to farm your heart out anyway. Try giving it a shot.
You should ult for any important kills (usually cores or someone who has a significant streak/bounty). Sometimes it's because they're worth a lot and other times it's because if you use your ult to kill someone important, you don't need your ult for objectives afterwards because the other team can't contest without the dead guy.
Eul's -> ult -> silence -> swarm should give you pretty reliable kills for a large portion of early-mid game. Maybe you're ulting when you don't have enough control so that your opponents can run away at the sight of you.
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Eul's -> ult -> silence -> swarm should give you pretty reliable kills for a large portion of early-mid game.
actually i have not thought of that i usually ult then rely on the team's stun/slow to hold the target . I usually play very aggressive and just use the euls --> silence + swarm --> chase the target combo for killing people
DP is mostly about positioning.
'
so it's like ember then ? i don't go for stop casual euls-->silence+swarm harass if i think i can't kill them
alright i'll try the bloodstone and stop building drums(is a casual bracer enough ?) i've noticed that i go home alot if i don't pick up runes too. thanks
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How do you judge creep equilibrium for a smoke gank on mid, and how can the mid on your team help with it?
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On April 14 2015 04:04 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +Eul's -> ult -> silence -> swarm should give you pretty reliable kills for a large portion of early-mid game. actually i have not thought of that i usually ult then rely on the team's stun/slow to hold the target . I usually play very aggressive and just use the euls --> silence + swarm --> chase the target combo for killing people ' so it's like ember then ? i don't go for stop casual euls-->silence+swarm harass if i think i can't kill them alright i'll try the bloodstone and stop building drums(is a casual bracer enough ?) i've noticed that i go home alot if i don't pick up runes too. thanks
Well, you could say positioning is important for just about any hero. But no, DP is nothing like ember spirit. DP has a unique ability of being able to damage while moving. I say positioning is important because you have to play around your teammates. It's your team's job to help you if they can and it's your job to not go out of position and get bursted down before they can help. You should position yourself so that you can't be flanked. Your nuke and silence are only efficient in narrow engagements where you can hit multiple heroes with them.
DP actually has surprisingly high kill potential vs underfarmed heroes thanks to her 4 sec cd nuke and movement speed. You shouldn't Euls -> silence swarm harass. That's a lot of commitment. You're using Eul's and waiting 2.5 seconds to get a single swarm in. You're going to get punished for that by better opponents. You're better off Silence->Swarming, auto attacking with phase boots and Euls -> Swarming if you think there's a kill potential. That's 600 damage + autoattacks in the duration of 4-6 seconds and you can hold on to your Eul's active until you're more certain of a kill potential.
If you want to talk about Ember, Ember is more about recognizing how aggressive you're allowed to be in any given situation. You need to gauge how much potential damage and stun/silence they have in relation to your escape plan. This knowledge is a must for Ember nowadays. He's no longer early 2014 Ember that just blindly gets +300 damage crit/cleave items and expects to win games. Getting massive damage output on this hero is now a reward for your space creation. It's your retirement plan from mid game. It's no longer a means to winning late game.
You can sneak a bracer in there if you think the extra bit will help. A bracer can be the difference between life and death early game, especially vs heroes that are combo based and have a limit to their damage output (Storm Spirit, Lina etc.) Honestly, my only beef with drums is that DP farms fast enough that she usually sells it before using all the charges. Phase Boots Euls TP Null (From the laning stage) leaves you with 2 open slots. I prefer reserving those 2 slots for an expendable item (magic wand/bracer etc.) and the components of my next item such as
Bloodstone: point booster + vit booster
BKB: magic wand + ogre club
Heart or Atos: magic wand + vit booster (then sell magic wand for reaver)
Atos: 2 wizardry staves
Drums are for heroes that need a convenient +all stats item which is mana supplement focused but my point is that you're an int hero building Eul's anyway. You have no need for the +agi +int. The movement speed is going to be overkill in most scenarios.
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Hope to see you at TI5 Heen, and nice sig 
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On April 14 2015 05:20 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
How do you judge creep equilibrium for a smoke gank on mid, and how can the mid on your team help with it?
It depends a lot on which heroes are matched up at mid. The earlier the game is, the wave will bounce back and forth less.
Ideally, you want the creep wave to be on your mid's ramp/tower range or inside your opponent mid's tower range.
Let's say it's a QoP (your team) vs Sniper matchup. The wave is on Sniper's side of the ramp. There's no incentive for sniper to push the wave back. It's exactly where he wants it. And this is early game where QoP is either level 2 or 3. She doesn't want to use scream anyway. You probably don't want to gank unless you have a special set of heroes like Rubick that can lift the sniper out into a more exposed area.
If it's a Lina (your team) vs Storm matchup and the wave is on the same position, you can have the Lina dragon slave the Storm through the creepwave so that it pushes. This will eventually shove the wave into Storm's tower range. You and your buddy (if you have one) can dive into range since your creeps will tank the tower and combo the Storm and finish him with auto attacks.
Ogre magi is really good for early dives because he can tank tower hits pretty well and his ignite is imba @ lvl 1.
At later levels, when the mid is higher level, it becomes easier for the mid laner to help reposition the creep waves. Their wave clearing abilities are maxed. They can nuke the wave and usually the opponent mid will probably nuke the wave back since he doesn't want to last hit under the tower. Take SF vs Storm as an example. SF has no setup skill so creep equilibrium is important for the gank to work out. And again, the wave is on Storm's side of the ramp. You can ask the SF to nuke the wave and go back and body block the next wave. Storm should most likely use a remnant or two to farm his creeps under his tower. There are 0 creeps between the two T1 towers at mid now. The next wave is coming but SF was already blocking so the equilibrium should be above average in your favor. The lane has been reset so Storm is probably going to be on the edge of his ramp waiting to cs. This is your time go hex him. Usually when this happens it's night time so it should be pretty hard for him to react.
Judging the creep equilibrium ahead of time is hard to do to be honest. You just have to know which creep equilibrium has the highest chance of failing or has a high turnaround potential and avoid it.
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holy shit do you have a new fan with all theese long answers and still answering!
my question is about my favorite hero storm. it's the hero i've studied the most, played the most and has brought me to 4.6k
I know my way around the common matchups (thanks to blitz videos!), i think i know when to go for bloodstone instead of orchid, i know when to hide and farm the orchid and i know when i can take over enemy jungle and get consistent farm and pickoffs without much danger. i also know my items lategame, oftentimes getting items like heart/deso/daedalus/mjolnir if i rack up a lot of bloodstone charges.
so most games i have my plan and i execute it successfully. what can i do to improve further?
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How did you learn to speak English so well? I'm quite impressed. Seems like most of the Korean progamers I know of speak very, very little English, if any at all.
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Can't really think of anything to ask myself but just wanted to let you know it's been a real treat reading all the well thought out answers you've been providing. :D
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I'll be in korea next month!
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United States33465 Posts
What environmental factors do you think allowed KHAOS to be such a success in its time over similar games/clones (notably AllStars)?
Similarly, what factors allowed LoL to come out of nowhere (somewhat) as a word-of-mouth game in Korea in an environment where similar, competing games existed?
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On April 14 2015 06:25 rexob wrote:
holy shit do you have a new fan with all theese long answers and still answering!
my question is about my favorite hero storm. it's the hero i've studied the most, played the most and has brought me to 4.6k
I know my way around the common matchups (thanks to blitz videos!), i think i know when to go for bloodstone instead of orchid, i know when to hide and farm the orchid and i know when i can take over enemy jungle and get consistent farm and pickoffs without much danger. i also know my items lategame, oftentimes getting items like heart/deso/daedalus/mjolnir if i rack up a lot of bloodstone charges.
so most games i have my plan and i execute it successfully. what can i do to improve further?
It seems like you've learned to learn on Storm. Storm is one of those heroes you can spam to grind 6k+
If you aren't confused about the big ideas, I suppose the only improvements you can make are mechanical/decision making ones. Even 7k+ players make less than optimal decisions. You're probably making 10x more less than ideal plays if you look closely.
A big part of playing a good Storm is rotation/farming route/off-map presence, basically pressure. Try looking at how exposed you are from the opponent's perspective.
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On April 14 2015 06:29 dutchfriese wrote:
How did you learn to speak English so well? I'm quite impressed. Seems like most of the Korean progamers I know of speak very, very little English, if any at all.
I lived in the US for 6 years and have a lot of English speaking friends in Korea that help me not get too rusty :p
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On April 14 2015 09:37 rebdomine wrote:
Can't really think of anything to ask myself but just wanted to let you know it's been a real treat reading all the well thought out answers you've been providing. :D
np, I answer when I have free time. I try my best to give detailed responses because what's obvious to me might be insightful to less experienced players.
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On April 14 2015 06:18 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 05:20 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
How do you judge creep equilibrium for a smoke gank on mid, and how can the mid on your team help with it? It depends a lot on which heroes are matched up at mid. The earlier the game is, the wave will bounce back and forth less. Ideally, you want the creep wave to be on your mid's ramp/tower range or inside your opponent mid's tower range. Let's say it's a QoP (your team) vs Sniper matchup. The wave is on Sniper's side of the ramp. There's no incentive for sniper to push the wave back. It's exactly where he wants it. And this is early game where QoP is either level 2 or 3. She doesn't want to use scream anyway. You probably don't want to gank unless you have a special set of heroes like Rubick that can lift the sniper out into a more exposed area. If it's a Lina (your team) vs Storm matchup and the wave is on the same position, you can have the Lina dragon slave the Storm through the creepwave so that it pushes. This will eventually shove the wave into Storm's tower range. You and your buddy (if you have one) can dive into range since your creeps will tank the tower and combo the Storm and finish him with auto attacks. Ogre magi is really good for early dives because he can tank tower hits pretty well and his ignite is imba @ lvl 1. At later levels, when the mid is higher level, it becomes easier for the mid laner to help reposition the creep waves. Their wave clearing abilities are maxed. They can nuke the wave and usually the opponent mid will probably nuke the wave back since he doesn't want to last hit under the tower. Take SF vs Storm as an example. SF has no setup skill so creep equilibrium is important for the gank to work out. And again, the wave is on Storm's side of the ramp. You can ask the SF to nuke the wave and go back and body block the next wave. Storm should most likely use a remnant or two to farm his creeps under his tower. There are 0 creeps between the two T1 towers at mid now. The next wave is coming but SF was already blocking so the equilibrium should be above average in your favor. The lane has been reset so Storm is probably going to be on the edge of his ramp waiting to cs. This is your time go hex him. Usually when this happens it's night time so it should be pretty hard for him to react. Judging the creep equilibrium ahead of time is hard to do to be honest. You just have to know which creep equilibrium has the highest chance of failing or has a high turnaround potential and avoid it.
Ty
A follow up question: what support duos are very strong with gank potential all around the map, like SWM/SK?
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Heen do you play on PW(chinese) servers?
btw i tried the bloodstone suggestion and it was pretty good .. i really didn't have sustain problems i almost never went home all game but i have yet where i didn't snowball
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Hey Heen you were always one of my fav players when I was in Korea, I hope you find success with your new lineup and I'll come back and visit Korea one day
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On April 14 2015 13:25 Ack1027 wrote:
I'll be in korea next month!
For how long? We're going to Malaysia for MPGL in early May I think.
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On April 14 2015 17:03 Waxangel wrote:
What environmental factors do you think allowed KHAOS to be such a success in its time over similar games/clones (notably AllStars)?
Similarly, what factors allowed LoL to come out of nowhere (somewhat) as a word-of-mouth game in Korea in an environment where similar, competing games existed?
Well, first of all DotA not legible for most Korean users was a big problem. If you need a friend to learn how to play the game, people just give up. An argument made back in the day was that DotA was less newb friendly with mechanics like denying being in the game whereas Chaos had invulenerable/insta teleporting couriers but I don't really believe that. Koreans pride themselves on discipline and achieving new limits of skill cap, I doubt that DotA being too hard of a game was the reason.
I don't know when LoL became a huge success. It seemed to explode in popularity somewhere during 2011. I remember playing a few games of it during 2009-2010 because of some friends who vouched for it but it was still an uknown game in Korea. Koreans had to play in US servers. The game itself was awful back then. There were like ~30 champions. Maybe it's because LoL shared more similarities with Chaos than DotA. I'm too inexperience with Chaos to jump to conclusions though.
Art also has something to do with it? For example, I don't think HoN could ever have made it big in Korea because of the art. League has its unique fairy tale flavor and appealed to the inner pedo of Koreans.
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On April 14 2015 21:51 Howie_Dewitt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 06:18 Heen wrote:On April 14 2015 05:20 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
How do you judge creep equilibrium for a smoke gank on mid, and how can the mid on your team help with it? It depends a lot on which heroes are matched up at mid. The earlier the game is, the wave will bounce back and forth less. Ideally, you want the creep wave to be on your mid's ramp/tower range or inside your opponent mid's tower range. Let's say it's a QoP (your team) vs Sniper matchup. The wave is on Sniper's side of the ramp. There's no incentive for sniper to push the wave back. It's exactly where he wants it. And this is early game where QoP is either level 2 or 3. She doesn't want to use scream anyway. You probably don't want to gank unless you have a special set of heroes like Rubick that can lift the sniper out into a more exposed area. If it's a Lina (your team) vs Storm matchup and the wave is on the same position, you can have the Lina dragon slave the Storm through the creepwave so that it pushes. This will eventually shove the wave into Storm's tower range. You and your buddy (if you have one) can dive into range since your creeps will tank the tower and combo the Storm and finish him with auto attacks. Ogre magi is really good for early dives because he can tank tower hits pretty well and his ignite is imba @ lvl 1. At later levels, when the mid is higher level, it becomes easier for the mid laner to help reposition the creep waves. Their wave clearing abilities are maxed. They can nuke the wave and usually the opponent mid will probably nuke the wave back since he doesn't want to last hit under the tower. Take SF vs Storm as an example. SF has no setup skill so creep equilibrium is important for the gank to work out. And again, the wave is on Storm's side of the ramp. You can ask the SF to nuke the wave and go back and body block the next wave. Storm should most likely use a remnant or two to farm his creeps under his tower. There are 0 creeps between the two T1 towers at mid now. The next wave is coming but SF was already blocking so the equilibrium should be above average in your favor. The lane has been reset so Storm is probably going to be on the edge of his ramp waiting to cs. This is your time go hex him. Usually when this happens it's night time so it should be pretty hard for him to react. Judging the creep equilibrium ahead of time is hard to do to be honest. You just have to know which creep equilibrium has the highest chance of failing or has a high turnaround potential and avoid it. Ty A follow up question: what support duos are very strong with gank potential all around the map, like SWM/SK?
Ogre Sky: tanky frontline support backed by pure offensive support
Shadow Demon Lina: damage
AA Rubick: cold feet + lift is nice but more importantly Rubick does 0 damage but AA provides all the damage early game.
Earthshaker Lion: crown control + single target control. They can both bypass BKBs because of their insta-stun nature and have good off-map presence.
I prefer support duos that share different strengths/weaknesses so that they compliment each other. Stun+Damage is better than Stun+Stun or Damage+Damage.
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On April 15 2015 02:34 goody153 wrote:
Heen do you play on PW(chinese) servers?
btw i tried the bloodstone suggestion and it was pretty good .. i really didn't have sustain problems i almost never went home all game but i have yet where i didn't snowball
Sometimes. I rarely play ranked MM so... rarely for me. But a lot of my teammates play on Chinese servers by default. The games are higher quality on China than any other server for sure.
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On April 15 2015 06:35 Whiplash wrote:Hey Heen you were always one of my fav players when I was in Korea, I hope you find success with your new lineup and I'll come back and visit Korea one day
<3
DotA seems so hard sometimes. Playing as a team... it's so cliche but people don't understand the effort it takes to truly get to that stage.
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Yo Heen
Can I get your in game autograph?
^_^
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Why the name heen?
What is your opinion of QO and MentalProtector in terms of their style? QO seem to play a lot of carry mid like rtz.
Assuming no ego or personal issues, who is in your dream all star Korean line up?
What is march's best role?
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Was it season 3 that you guys (MVP.Phoenix) went undefeated in KDL?
What were some of the things that separated you guys from the likes of Zephyr, Rave, and Pokerface?
What did you guys have that your competition lacked? Because you guys did seem to be on a level of your own during that time.
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On April 15 2015 09:47 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 17:03 Waxangel wrote:
What environmental factors do you think allowed KHAOS to be such a success in its time over similar games/clones (notably AllStars)?
Similarly, what factors allowed LoL to come out of nowhere (somewhat) as a word-of-mouth game in Korea in an environment where similar, competing games existed? Well, first of all DotA not legible for most Korean users was a big problem. If you need a friend to learn how to play the game, people just give up. An argument made back in the day was that DotA was less newb friendly with mechanics like denying being in the game whereas Chaos had invulenerable/insta teleporting couriers but I don't really believe that. Koreans pride themselves on discipline and achieving new limits of skill cap, I doubt that DotA being too hard of a game was the reason. I don't know when LoL became a huge success. It seemed to explode in popularity somewhere during 2011. I remember playing a few games of it during 2009-2010 because of some friends who vouched for it but it was still an uknown game in Korea. Koreans had to play in US servers. The game itself was awful back then. There were like ~30 champions. Maybe it's because LoL shared more similarities with Chaos than DotA. I'm too inexperience with Chaos to jump to conclusions though. Art also has something to do with it? For example, I don't think HoN could ever have made it big in Korea because of the art. League has its unique fairy tale flavor and appealed to the inner pedo of Koreans.
Damn, it could have been dota2 that exploded but the closed beta test really hurt them i guess. LoL has grown too big now to get topple over. I am still hoping for dota2 to get more popular in korea but i won't be anytime soon. I heard Japanese has a thing for LoL too. Well i guess dota2 won't get popular because of their intimidating arts.
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Are you planning on going to TI if your team doesnt qualify?
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On April 15 2015 14:56 Tricks wrote:
Yo Heen
Can I get your in game autograph?
^_^
I'd have to find them first :p We got like a thousand cards each and we were supposed to give them out TI but we ended coming back home with 500+ left
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On April 15 2015 17:54 DucK- wrote:
Why the name heen?
What is your opinion of QO and MentalProtector in terms of their style? QO seem to play a lot of carry mid like rtz.
Assuming no ego or personal issues, who is in your dream all star Korean line up?
What is march's best role?
I have pale skin so when I was a kid, my nickname was Heendoong (흰둥). It's a common name for white colored dogs. I used the same alias for gaming when I was a kid but later on people started abbreviating for me.
I'm not sure if it's QO's conscious choice to play carry oriented mids or if it was the patch. Probably a bit of both.
QO is super aggressive. He believes in the psychological factor of actively making your opponents feel pressured. He doesn't believe in consequences because what might be or might not be is hypothetical during the game. You go the fuck in and find out according to him, lol. He'll never flame a teammate for being too aggressive. Only for being a pussy.
MP is more calculating. He'll take risks but not nearly as much as QO. He's said himself that his role until joining our team was to be the reactionary DPS. So he's going to wait and see while his team does the dirty work and strikes at the perfect moment. QO was the opposite. He goes in and creates chaos and confusion then the rest of the team joins in and helps clean up.
Ego and personal issues aside, my dream all star Korean lineup would consist most of former MVP Phoenix players. Something like,
1 - QO
2 - MP
3 - Forev
4 and 5 - March and myself
but people are people and we wouldn't have split up if it could've been worked out.
March's best role is probably carry but he has his own ideas about how the role needs to be played. I don't really know. He's all over the place. He's played every single role in the past year.
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On April 15 2015 18:05 macmann wrote:
Was it season 3 that you guys (MVP.Phoenix) went undefeated in KDL?
What were some of the things that separated you guys from the likes of Zephyr, Rave, and Pokerface?
What did you guys have that your competition lacked? Because you guys did seem to be on a level of your own during that time.
Yes, season 3, which was right after TI4.
I feel like at the time we simply summarized the TI4 meta the best among the KDL teams. Most teams knew what the meta heroes were but didn't abuse them fully.
We recognized that gold swings (or comebacks) rarely happen in that patch, picked strong enough lanes that usually included a hero that hits a peak around the 10 min mark (blink brew, mek razor, blink batrider etc.) and constant 5 man off of that. A lot of our games ended pre 20 minutes because our opponents didn't have the tools to deal with our death ball. It was too early, too fast for split push to be an answer. We got minimal farm to execute the style that we wanted and took initiative earlier than our opponents anticipated.
Going 12-0 was unexpected though. Even when we had a 6-0 start, we figured we're going to get studied and lose soon.
Also there was the fact that we just came back from TI4. We didn't make it through the Wildcards but every LAN experience is precious in boosting a team's confidence.
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On April 15 2015 19:00 Kraznaya wrote:
Are you planning on going to TI if your team doesnt qualify?
I doubt it unless I'm needed/invited for some other purpose than playing.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
what about as an analyst for the korean commentary
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I just drop by to say how an awesome man you are. Thank you.
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On April 16 2015 19:31 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 17:54 DucK- wrote:
Why the name heen?
What is your opinion of QO and MentalProtector in terms of their style? QO seem to play a lot of carry mid like rtz.
Assuming no ego or personal issues, who is in your dream all star Korean line up?
What is march's best role? I have pale skin so when I was a kid, my nickname was Heendoong (흰둥). It's a common name for white colored dogs. I used the same alias for gaming when I was a kid but later on people started abbreviating for me. I'm not sure if it's QO's conscious choice to play carry oriented mids or if it was the patch. Probably a bit of both. QO is super aggressive. He believes in the psychological factor of actively making your opponents feel pressured. He doesn't believe in consequences because what might be or might not be is hypothetical during the game. You go the fuck in and find out according to him, lol. He'll never flame a teammate for being too aggressive. Only for being a pussy. MP is more calculating. He'll take risks but not nearly as much as QO. He's said himself that his role until joining our team was to be the reactionary DPS. So he's going to wait and see while his team does the dirty work and strikes at the perfect moment. QO was the opposite. He goes in and creates chaos and confusion then the rest of the team joins in and helps clean up. Ego and personal issues aside, my dream all star Korean lineup would consist most of former MVP Phoenix players. Something like, 1 - QO 2 - MP 3 - Forev 4 and 5 - March and myself but people are people and we wouldn't have split up if it could've been worked out. March's best role is probably carry but he has his own ideas about how the role needs to be played. I don't really know. He's all over the place. He's played every single role in the past year.
Dang QO sounds like a player I really like to have in my team :D
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What are the best level one gankers in your opinion?
The only one I know is veno with the slow.
Carries would be nice too if you know any
Ty heen
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On April 18 2015 21:41 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
What are the best level one gankers in your opinion?
The only one I know is veno with the slow.
Carries would be nice too if you know any
Ty heen
Mirana, Earthshaker, Ogre, Tree, Bane, Shadow Demon, Earth Spirit
lvl 1 Gank potentials are situational. Some heroes that aren't known for their ganking might be super valuable in the right situations. Let's say a tusk with the perfect shard block, or a glimpse on Disruptor.
For carries good at level 1 gank assisting (or bounty rune contest), I would say burst damage is important
Juggernaut, Sniper, Chaos Knight, Tiny, Bristleback, Ursa
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On April 20 2015 19:17 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2015 21:41 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
What are the best level one gankers in your opinion?
The only one I know is veno with the slow.
Carries would be nice too if you know any
Ty heen Mirana, Earthshaker, Ogre, Tree, Bane, Shadow Demon, Earth Spirit lvl 1 Gank potentials are situational. Some heroes that aren't known for their ganking might be super valuable in the right situations. Let's say a tusk with the perfect shard block, or a glimpse on Disruptor. For carries good at level 1 gank assisting (or bounty rune contest), I would say burst damage is important Juggernaut, Sniper, Chaos Knight, Tiny, Bristleback, Ursa
not slark / gyro?
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If i wanna increase my solo mmr would the following heroes be ok for climbing SEA server ? What heroes should i be usually be playing if i don't just wanna increase my mmr but i also wanna improve too ? I usually play farming core either mid or safelane. Generally just cores that farm.
naga , meepo, TA , Storm, Doom(if all lanes are taken ), mirana , SF, ember , lina
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On April 20 2015 19:23 VelJa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2015 19:17 Heen wrote:On April 18 2015 21:41 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
What are the best level one gankers in your opinion?
The only one I know is veno with the slow.
Carries would be nice too if you know any
Ty heen Mirana, Earthshaker, Ogre, Tree, Bane, Shadow Demon, Earth Spirit lvl 1 Gank potentials are situational. Some heroes that aren't known for their ganking might be super valuable in the right situations. Let's say a tusk with the perfect shard block, or a glimpse on Disruptor. For carries good at level 1 gank assisting (or bounty rune contest), I would say burst damage is important Juggernaut, Sniper, Chaos Knight, Tiny, Bristleback, Ursa not slark / gyro?
Slark is good in safelane 2v1 or 3v1 scenarios. He's not good at contesting runes at lvl 1. You'll only get kills because your opponents were being stupid/greedy. He has terrible stats so the only way you're getting kills is in one-sided skirmishes.
The only thing Gyro has to offer @ lvl 1 is Rocket barrage and again, if you could kill someone @ lvl 1 with Gyro, you probably could've done so with most other heroes who have anything useful to offer @ lvl 1.
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On April 20 2015 19:50 goody153 wrote:
If i wanna increase my solo mmr would the following heroes be ok for climbing SEA server ? What heroes should i be usually be playing if i don't just wanna increase my mmr but i also wanna improve too ? I usually play farming core either mid or safelane. Generally just cores that farm.
naga , meepo, TA , Storm, Doom(if all lanes are taken ), mirana , SF, ember , lina
You can climb the ladder with almost any hero that can realistically snowball.
That said, if you want to improve while grinding MMR, you should look into heroes that require skillsets that transfer to other heroes. So unique heroes that have to be specialized aren't the most promising. I would consider stuff like Meepo cheesy because spamming Meepo doesn't really help you understand the game better compared to other 'more standard' heroes. And a lot of your wins will be thanks to your opponents disrespecting your hero's capabilities.
Stick to aggressive heroes if you can. Naga is not fun to play with nor to play against. Fun factor aside though, all the way to the top skill bracket, there are holes in pubs. Playing elusive farm heroes doesn't allow you to learn how to recognize these holes in the game and punish them.
Heroes you can comfortably first pick are good. It allows you to stick to an agenda instead of trying to get the best fit for each game by last picking since you're going to end up all over the place that way.
QoP, Storm, TA, Shadow Fiend, Sniper, Juggernaut, Void etc.
Honestly anything that you're willing to stick to is fine.
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On April 20 2015 21:02 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2015 19:50 goody153 wrote:
If i wanna increase my solo mmr would the following heroes be ok for climbing SEA server ? What heroes should i be usually be playing if i don't just wanna increase my mmr but i also wanna improve too ? I usually play farming core either mid or safelane. Generally just cores that farm.
naga , meepo, TA , Storm, Doom(if all lanes are taken ), mirana , SF, ember , lina
You can climb the ladder with almost any hero that can realistically snowball. That said, if you want to improve while grinding MMR, you should look into heroes that require skillsets that transfer to other heroes. So unique heroes that have to be specialized aren't the most promising. I would consider stuff like Meepo cheesy because spamming Meepo doesn't really help you understand the game better compared to other 'more standard' heroes. And a lot of your wins will be thanks to your opponents disrespecting your hero's capabilities. Stick to aggressive heroes if you can. Naga is not fun to play with nor to play against. Fun factor aside though, all the way to the top skill bracket, there are holes in pubs. Playing elusive farm heroes doesn't allow you to learn how to recognize these holes in the game and punish them. Heroes you can comfortably first pick are good. It allows you to stick to an agenda instead of trying to get the best fit for each game by last picking since you're going to end up all over the place that way. QoP, Storm, TA, Shadow Fiend, Sniper, Juggernaut, Void etc. Honestly anything that you're willing to stick to is fine.
I actually like playing naga alot . It's my most played hero and probably my best.
i don't really wanna pick void/juggernaut/sniper if possible .. but i'll stick to TA/sf/qop/storm i guess .. Thanks
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On April 21 2015 01:25 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2015 21:02 Heen wrote:On April 20 2015 19:50 goody153 wrote:
If i wanna increase my solo mmr would the following heroes be ok for climbing SEA server ? What heroes should i be usually be playing if i don't just wanna increase my mmr but i also wanna improve too ? I usually play farming core either mid or safelane. Generally just cores that farm.
naga , meepo, TA , Storm, Doom(if all lanes are taken ), mirana , SF, ember , lina
You can climb the ladder with almost any hero that can realistically snowball. That said, if you want to improve while grinding MMR, you should look into heroes that require skillsets that transfer to other heroes. So unique heroes that have to be specialized aren't the most promising. I would consider stuff like Meepo cheesy because spamming Meepo doesn't really help you understand the game better compared to other 'more standard' heroes. And a lot of your wins will be thanks to your opponents disrespecting your hero's capabilities. Stick to aggressive heroes if you can. Naga is not fun to play with nor to play against. Fun factor aside though, all the way to the top skill bracket, there are holes in pubs. Playing elusive farm heroes doesn't allow you to learn how to recognize these holes in the game and punish them. Heroes you can comfortably first pick are good. It allows you to stick to an agenda instead of trying to get the best fit for each game by last picking since you're going to end up all over the place that way. QoP, Storm, TA, Shadow Fiend, Sniper, Juggernaut, Void etc. Honestly anything that you're willing to stick to is fine. I actually like playing naga alot . It's my most played hero and probably my best. i don't really wanna pick void/juggernaut/sniper if possible .. but i'll stick to TA/sf/qop/storm i guess .. Thanks
I think Heen is saying that your own team won't wanna play with naga
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On April 21 2015 02:32 Koromon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 01:25 goody153 wrote:On April 20 2015 21:02 Heen wrote:On April 20 2015 19:50 goody153 wrote:
If i wanna increase my solo mmr would the following heroes be ok for climbing SEA server ? What heroes should i be usually be playing if i don't just wanna increase my mmr but i also wanna improve too ? I usually play farming core either mid or safelane. Generally just cores that farm.
naga , meepo, TA , Storm, Doom(if all lanes are taken ), mirana , SF, ember , lina
You can climb the ladder with almost any hero that can realistically snowball. That said, if you want to improve while grinding MMR, you should look into heroes that require skillsets that transfer to other heroes. So unique heroes that have to be specialized aren't the most promising. I would consider stuff like Meepo cheesy because spamming Meepo doesn't really help you understand the game better compared to other 'more standard' heroes. And a lot of your wins will be thanks to your opponents disrespecting your hero's capabilities. Stick to aggressive heroes if you can. Naga is not fun to play with nor to play against. Fun factor aside though, all the way to the top skill bracket, there are holes in pubs. Playing elusive farm heroes doesn't allow you to learn how to recognize these holes in the game and punish them. Heroes you can comfortably first pick are good. It allows you to stick to an agenda instead of trying to get the best fit for each game by last picking since you're going to end up all over the place that way. QoP, Storm, TA, Shadow Fiend, Sniper, Juggernaut, Void etc. Honestly anything that you're willing to stick to is fine. I actually like playing naga alot . It's my most played hero and probably my best. i don't really wanna pick void/juggernaut/sniper if possible .. but i'll stick to TA/sf/qop/storm i guess .. Thanks I think Heen is saying that your own team won't wanna play with naga
ah i see .. well he's right about that
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What would you add to the shop if you could?
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Hey Heen, thanks for doing this, you've definitely made a fan in me from this.
Onto my question! Me and my friend are both not very good at this game, but we play a lot together and have as much fun as we can. We have a bit so-so success though, so what I want to ask is what are some very strong duo lanes? Even if they aren't necessarily all that viable in higher level play. Things along the lines of Centaur/Bane.
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On April 23 2015 15:59 Dysisa wrote:
Hey Heen, thanks for doing this, you've definitely made a fan in me from this.
Onto my question! Me and my friend are both not very good at this game, but we play a lot together and have as much fun as we can. We have a bit so-so success though, so what I want to ask is what are some very strong duo lanes? Even if they aren't necessarily all that viable in higher level play. Things along the lines of Centaur/Bane.
Hey dude, I'm not heen but just try sniper/drow. Go for treads mass wraith band build. this is sooo cool when u are with ur mate.
I just have to say this ^^ sry
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Congrats to Heen and MVP.Hot6 winning the MPGL SEA LAN. Good luck in the upcoming months especially TI qualifiers.
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On April 23 2015 15:59 Dysisa wrote:
Hey Heen, thanks for doing this, you've definitely made a fan in me from this.
Onto my question! Me and my friend are both not very good at this game, but we play a lot together and have as much fun as we can. We have a bit so-so success though, so what I want to ask is what are some very strong duo lanes? Even if they aren't necessarily all that viable in higher level play. Things along the lines of Centaur/Bane.
Hey, sorry I've been a bit busy.
Let's see, strong dual lanes hmmm..
Lina CM: quadruple nuke @ lvl 2 (or 3) depending on when CM takes aura
Wisp + anything aggressive: Gyro Bristle CK Ember
Weaver Abaddon: Classic combo with lots of dive potential as well as turn around
Pudge Omni: Nasty combo that does well at all stages of the game
Axe Sky: strong lane and a natural duo
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On May 14 2015 19:22 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 15:59 Dysisa wrote:
Hey Heen, thanks for doing this, you've definitely made a fan in me from this.
Onto my question! Me and my friend are both not very good at this game, but we play a lot together and have as much fun as we can. We have a bit so-so success though, so what I want to ask is what are some very strong duo lanes? Even if they aren't necessarily all that viable in higher level play. Things along the lines of Centaur/Bane. Hey, sorry I've been a bit busy. Let's see, strong dual lanes hmmm.. Lina CM: quadruple nuke @ lvl 2 (or 3) depending on when CM takes aura Wisp + anything aggressive: Gyro Bristle CK Ember Weaver Abaddon: Classic combo with lots of dive potential as well as turn around Pudge Omni: Nasty combo that does well at all stages of the game Axe Sky: strong lane and a natural duo
No worries about the late answer, I'm just glad I got an answer at all. All of these sound perfect, gonna try them out and hopefully have a lot of fun later today. Thank you very much, and good luck in the TI5 qualifiers!
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Hello Heen,
I read EternaLEnVy's blog and he talked about having Nexon as host for a major and how by doing so it could potential promote DotA2 in Korea. Say Nexon was a host for one of the majors do you think more Koreans could potentially get interested in DotA2 and as a result help increase the popularity of the game in the country?
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sup heen
i have a question which im curious to hear your thoughts on
any past or present players in the korean scene you think didnt/havent lived up to their full potential?
people who had potential but didnt make the effort or people who just werent presented a chance to play at bigger teams/stages
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On May 22 2015 08:56 AznJDragon wrote:
Hello Heen,
I read EternaLEnVy's blog and he talked about having Nexon as host for a major and how by doing so it could potential promote DotA2 in Korea. Say Nexon was a host for one of the majors do you think more Koreans could potentially get interested in DotA2 and as a result help increase the popularity of the game in the country?
I think it's clear now that throwing money at the game won't directly help the game's popularity.
A lot of casual players who are already playing DotA don't pay attention to tournaments. Hosting a major won't interest anyone who wasn't already following the competitive scene anyway.
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On May 22 2015 15:40 evilfatsh1t wrote:
sup heen
i have a question which im curious to hear your thoughts on
any past or present players in the korean scene you think didnt/havent lived up to their full potential?
people who had potential but didnt make the effort or people who just werent presented a chance to play at bigger teams/stages
sup sup
Looking back at the DotA 1 days, there were lots of players who had potential as competitive players but we were all playing for pennies back then so they slowly ended up quitting and moving on.
There are players in Korea who have potential, but they don't have the balls to go competitive because that would mean expectations would follow and they're going to have to accept the fact that they're going to face failure (at least in the beginning) and realize that a fully functional team is not nearly as easy as it looks. Typical twitch chat mentality in every region.
I won't name any individuals who could have but didn't break out into the scene because I think going competitive on a skill level isn't so hard. It's all about being mature enough and being self-aware.
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On May 24 2015 00:43 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 08:56 AznJDragon wrote:
Hello Heen,
I read EternaLEnVy's blog and he talked about having Nexon as host for a major and how by doing so it could potential promote DotA2 in Korea. Say Nexon was a host for one of the majors do you think more Koreans could potentially get interested in DotA2 and as a result help increase the popularity of the game in the country? I think it's clear now that throwing money at the game won't directly help the game's popularity. A lot of casual players who are already playing DotA don't pay attention to tournaments. Hosting a major won't interest anyone who wasn't already following the competitive scene anyway.
I was thinking more along the lines of Nexon hosts a major and advertise it to people in Korea not just causal players to get people interested in the game. Valve's approach for TI1 was to host it in Europe in Gamescom to advertise it to many people. I think the way EnVy's and I view was more of Nexon hosts a major to try and advertise it to more Koreans. Like Koreans walk around and hopefully check it out. I mean if a big event is in your home country and you have a chance to check it out then I mean why not? The way I see it is if Nexon runs a successful enough major in South Korea that gets enough hype around worldwide and hype in Korea then maybe it could get more Koreans interested in DotA2. But I understand what you're coming from considering how you witness the growth of DotA2 in Korea directly even with the KDL and NSL.
On May 24 2015 01:40 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 15:40 evilfatsh1t wrote:
sup heen
i have a question which im curious to hear your thoughts on
any past or present players in the korean scene you think didnt/havent lived up to their full potential?
people who had potential but didnt make the effort or people who just werent presented a chance to play at bigger teams/stages
sup sup Looking back at the DotA 1 days, there were lots of players who had potential as competitive players but we were all playing for pennies back then so they slowly ended up quitting and moving on. There are players in Korea who have potential, but they don't have the balls to go competitive because that would mean expectations would follow and they're going to have to accept the fact that they're going to face failure (at least in the beginning) and realize that a fully functional team is not nearly as easy as it looks. Typical twitch chat mentality in every region. I won't name any individuals who could have but didn't break out into the scene because I think going competitive on a skill level isn't so hard. It's all about being mature enough and being self-aware.
I think some of the potential DotA1 Korean pro players went off to League since by that time players had a higher chance to be a pro player and get payed in League like Faker.
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ilovecats
United States265 Posts
Dear Heeeeeneeeeeeeeeeeen,
I'm waking up from a long nap just to send you this warm greeting from a rainy town in Texas. Even though I suspect most "boys" on this forum these days don't really have a clue who I am (or was), those who do and were part of our story should unanimously agree that I'm your #1 fan in the world, regardless if proven by degrees of sincerity, measured in number of repeating e's when screaming your name, or considered from the perspective of verifiable TL DotA history.
The other day out of pure boredom and stress from work, I treated myself with some twitch.tv entertainment after a long absence from anything related to gaming. When I saw the familiar name Heen show up on screen, my eyes lit up and my mouth watered. I was fully expecting to see some steaming hot mid SF action, but instead you played some ward ***** Rhasta in a badly losing game that was almost too cruel to watch. A subsequent Google search led me to this thread. I have to admit that I don't know much about your competitive DotA 2 career, though I do know there must be a good reason you're playing support on your competitive team. But boy don't we all miss the good old days of bnet pubs where you taught us noobs how the game worked. Then came the TL IH era where you, under the unforgiving handicap of latency generated by distance and yesterday's technology, had to miraculously and often single-handily carry your side of the team against a fiercely determined Testie. How can we forget your hax Drow Ranger who always had more gold than most of us could understand, or the the deadly Viper, the lightening fast Razor, the team wiping OD... By the way, you probably don't even remember this, once you invited me to play on a Korean server to witness your "host pudge" where you landed hooks after hooks in a much faster paced game than what I was used to, and it was so overwhelming that I had to GG quit after just a couple of games citing "lag" reasons. Hehe, all these must have been something close to a decade ago. How time really flies!
You said you're pretty "washed up" after playing DotA for so long. Well, eight years ago we were all enthusiastically watching the replays of Merlini and SK.Loda. Imagine if you were to tell me that one of them would come play with us, I probably would (pretend to) have died of the then undiscovered disease of "Kreygasm". Now when I take a look at the guys today, one has become a caster and the other, while fairly accomplished with a TI title and all, still seems to get beaten up on a regular basis by the youngsters. People have to eventually grow up,grow stale and grow old. What you probably don't realize is how lucky you're to be in the 0.01% of this game, even if it's "just a game", for life has always taught me that it's really difficult to be the elite of anything in this competitive world.
You said you consider yourself to be very knowledgeable of the game, and that I do not doubt the slightest. What you didn't say, of course, is that you're such a nice and humble person with excellent manners and a truly genuine attitude that is absolutely a gem in this infamous community filled with ego, rudeness, immaturity and arrogance. I'm pretty sure everyone around you shares my view, and just to set the records straight here, for all the childish and exaggerated fanboy chants I had ever thrown at you in my younger years, my deep respect for your skills and your personally as well as my appreciation for all your helpful tips and advice were 100% sincere and honest.
I read that you were the pioneer of professional Korean DotA, and certainly that doesn't surprise me the least, though it surely sounds like a title that would put some weight on your shoulder, which in turn may inevitably lead to setbacks and frustrations at times. But I believe you can handle them and in the end come up with the right decisions at the right times. I don't know how life has been for you, or whether you have some other plans for yourself in the future. But I do want you to know that no matter what happens, an old friend here wholeheartedly wishes you the best in each and everything you do.
May this post bring back some of the fond memories and give you a smile on your face plus some warm feelings in your heart. With that I shall go back to my nap.
Sincerey yours,
"cats"
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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28091 Posts
Nice to see you going to TI5 Heen. How excited are you and what do you think your chances are?
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Baltimore, USA22256 Posts
Goooooooooooo Heeeeeeeeeeeeen!!
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Oh cats, you forgot his 42-0 THD.
Heen's currently being punished with his Pugna at 0-6-3 in 22 mins, but JerAx's max poison SD build surprised Phoenix and MP came back from very low Bloodstone charges to reach 17 now. Blink Leshrac ftw !
ZOMG GO HOT6 !
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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grats heen!
how does it feel to beat phoenix hahahahah
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*heaps praise onto the heroes of the hour*
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I'm so happy for you man!
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Lalalaland34495 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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How do you communicate with JerAx as a team? I know you're fluent in English, does he speak English and you translate for him, does he do his own thing, does he speak in Finnish and hope you get the general idea of what he means?
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1. Woo, congrats!
2. Hey it's ilovecats! rip sc2.org
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Osaka27154 Posts
1) Holy shit Heen good job man!
2) Holy shit cats wtf man!
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congrats Heen! Have fun in Seattle :D
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Sanya12364 Posts
Direct qualification!
Super congratulations!!
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United States33465 Posts
grats man, keep killin' em
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Congratulations on getting to TI5! Rooting for you guys to go far!
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Congrats Heen! Really enjoyed your game 2 in the qualifier grand finals. Good luck for the big one!
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Your stream got me back into dota1 after my HON times. Thanks for that and congrats on TI5!
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On June 01 2015 16:22 ilovecats wrote:
Dear Heeeeeneeeeeeeeeeeen,
I'm waking up from a long nap just to send you this warm greeting from a rainy town in Texas. Even though I suspect most "boys" on this forum these days don't really have a clue who I am (or was), those who do and were part of our story should unanimously agree that I'm your #1 fan in the world, regardless if proven by degrees of sincerity, measured in number of repeating e's when screaming your name, or considered from the perspective of verifiable TL DotA history.
The other day out of pure boredom and stress from work, I treated myself with some twitch.tv entertainment after a long absence from anything related to gaming. When I saw the familiar name Heen show up on screen, my eyes lit up and my mouth watered. I was fully expecting to see some steaming hot mid SF action, but instead you played some ward ***** Rhasta in a badly losing game that was almost too cruel to watch. A subsequent Google search led me to this thread. I have to admit that I don't know much about your competitive DotA 2 career, though I do know there must be a good reason you're playing support on your competitive team. But boy don't we all miss the good old days of bnet pubs where you taught us noobs how the game worked. Then came the TL IH era where you, under the unforgiving handicap of latency generated by distance and yesterday's technology, had to miraculously and often single-handily carry your side of the team against a fiercely determined Testie. How can we forget your hax Drow Ranger who always had more gold than most of us could understand, or the the deadly Viper, the lightening fast Razor, the team wiping OD... By the way, you probably don't even remember this, once you invited me to play on a Korean server to witness your "host pudge" where you landed hooks after hooks in a much faster paced game than what I was used to, and it was so overwhelming that I had to GG quit after just a couple of games citing "lag" reasons. Hehe, all these must have been something close to a decade ago. How time really flies!
You said you're pretty "washed up" after playing DotA for so long. Well, eight years ago we were all enthusiastically watching the replays of Merlini and SK.Loda. Imagine if you were to tell me that one of them would come play with us, I probably would (pretend to) have died of the then undiscovered disease of "Kreygasm". Now when I take a look at the guys today, one has become a caster and the other, while fairly accomplished with a TI title and all, still seems to get beaten up on a regular basis by the youngsters. People have to eventually grow up,grow stale and grow old. What you probably don't realize is how lucky you're to be in the 0.01% of this game, even if it's "just a game", for life has always taught me that it's really difficult to be the elite of anything in this competitive world.
You said you consider yourself to be very knowledgeable of the game, and that I do not doubt the slightest. What you didn't say, of course, is that you're such a nice and humble person with excellent manners and a truly genuine attitude that is absolutely a gem in this infamous community filled with ego, rudeness, immaturity and arrogance. I'm pretty sure everyone around you shares my view, and just to set the records straight here, for all the childish and exaggerated fanboy chants I had ever thrown at you in my younger years, my deep respect for your skills and your personally as well as my appreciation for all your helpful tips and advice were 100% sincere and honest.
I read that you were the pioneer of professional Korean DotA, and certainly that doesn't surprise me the least, though it surely sounds like a title that would put some weight on your shoulder, which in turn may inevitably lead to setbacks and frustrations at times. But I believe you can handle them and in the end come up with the right decisions at the right times. I don't know how life has been for you, or whether you have some other plans for yourself in the future. But I do want you to know that no matter what happens, an old friend here wholeheartedly wishes you the best in each and everything you do.
May this post bring back some of the fond memories and give you a smile on your face plus some warm feelings in your heart. With that I shall go back to my nap.
Sincerey yours,
"cats"
Holy shit! cats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How are you doing my friend?
You talking about the old days makes me appreciate where I am today. Back then I never imagined DotA would grow as much as it did and I just kept on playing for the love of the game. You described me as a good sport but truth be told, I was still an ego freak and immature kid. In a way, I'm glad that I went to the army and got washed up because it humbled me. Even until recently, I was butthurt about getting 'demoted' to support thinking I was meant for something more important and impactful. Two months ago, I was worried our team wouldn't even get an invite to the qualifiers. Now that we've made it through, I'm glad I could put aside my petty ambitions and I could contribute something that was unique to me as the old man of the team.
Thanks for all the kind words and though we've never met in person, this post did put a warm smile on my face and made our victory that much sweeter as I'm reminded that there are people who truly feel happy for me.
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On June 01 2015 16:27 TheEmulator wrote:
Nice to see you going to TI5 Heen. How excited are you and what do you think your chances are?
I'm super excited obviously but I'm trying to calm down and realize that going to TI5 is only a blessing if we put in the work. I don't want a repeat of the embarassment that was DAC lol
Personally I think people give the SEA region too much shit about how low skilled we are. It's going to be a hard journey. In a weird way I'm glad that most people think we'll undoubtedly be bottom 2. Less pressure is always better.
Slightly unrelated but I've noticed that people find our drafts super clowny and non-standard at times. A hero is only as good as you believe it is to be. 99% of the people in DotA think heroes are good or bad depending on what the top top tier teams are drafting anyways. I don't want to believe anything other than my(our) first hand experience. Why not pick gyrocopter? Because I think it's a trash hero. We've never lost to a gyrocopter in a scrim and have no reason to believe it's good. Maybe SEA is just bad at the hero. I used to think Tidehunter was a trash hero but then we played iceiceice's Tidehunter and changed our mind completely. There was a reason he was 19-2 at the hero in officials. But my point is your ideas about the game have to be first-hand or it's not genuine. It's just a copycat mentality.
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grats for the win heen .. are you guys attending any tournament pre-TI5 ?
also i'm curious how is jerax as a teammate ?
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On June 01 2015 17:15 chiflutz wrote:
Oh cats, you forgot his 42-0 THD.
Heen's currently being punished with his Pugna at 0-6-3 in 22 mins, but JerAx's max poison SD build surprised Phoenix and MP came back from very low Bloodstone charges to reach 17 now. Blink Leshrac ftw !
ZOMG GO HOT6 !
I think the 42-0 THD was Lonery, another Korean I lured into the TL IHs so I could have a 200+ ping companion, not me.
It probably wasn't the best game to play pugna support in our last game but they were pretty uncomfortable playing against pugna so it ended up ok. 1 ironwoodbranch @ 5 min full 6 position pugna ftw!
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On June 01 2015 21:12 plasmidghost wrote:
How do you communicate with JerAx as a team? I know you're fluent in English, does he speak English and you translate for him, does he do his own thing, does he speak in Finnish and hope you get the general idea of what he means?
We speak English. Everyone but Forev has fluent English so the only times we speak Korean are from and to Forev when something not so simple has to be communicated fast and I'll try to do a rough translation if Jerax is required to understand as well.
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Thanks for all the support that I didn't individually respond to. It's a strange power to know that there are people out there rooting for you!
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On June 03 2015 02:27 goody153 wrote:
grats for the win heen .. are you guys attending any tournament pre-TI5 ?
also i'm curious how is jerax as a teammate ?
Probably no tournaments pre-TI5. Since we're one of the biggest underdogs in the tournament, it's probably wiser to keep our development from now until the main event concealed.
Jerax doesn't buy wards. Trashtalks opponents when he feeds. Goes bloodstone first on witch doctor.
Just kidding.
He's easy to work with. He has (maybe had?) a very different view about the game from me so we initially struggled a lot. He's farm heavy and aggressive whereas I'm more selfless and counterplay focused. We've managed to align our interests over time and made great improvements in synergy as a support duo.
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On June 03 2015 02:38 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 02:27 goody153 wrote:
grats for the win heen .. are you guys attending any tournament pre-TI5 ?
also i'm curious how is jerax as a teammate ? Probably no tournaments pre-TI5. Since we're one of the biggest underdogs in the tournament, it's probably wiser to keep our development from now until the main event concealed. Jerax doesn't buy wards. Trashtalks opponents when he feeds. Goes bloodstone first on witch doctor. Just kidding. He's easy to work with. He has (maybe had?) a very different view about the game from me so we initially struggled a lot. He's farm heavy and aggressive whereas I'm more selfless and counterplay focused. We've managed to align our interests over time and made great improvements in synergy as a support duo.
Interesting . Last follow up question.
Do you guys also hang out outside the game like outside like go karaoke or eat outside or generally just chill out ?
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On June 03 2015 02:52 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 02:38 Heen wrote:On June 03 2015 02:27 goody153 wrote:
grats for the win heen .. are you guys attending any tournament pre-TI5 ?
also i'm curious how is jerax as a teammate ? Probably no tournaments pre-TI5. Since we're one of the biggest underdogs in the tournament, it's probably wiser to keep our development from now until the main event concealed. Jerax doesn't buy wards. Trashtalks opponents when he feeds. Goes bloodstone first on witch doctor. Just kidding. He's easy to work with. He has (maybe had?) a very different view about the game from me so we initially struggled a lot. He's farm heavy and aggressive whereas I'm more selfless and counterplay focused. We've managed to align our interests over time and made great improvements in synergy as a support duo. Interesting . Last follow up question. Do you guys also hang out outside the game like outside like go karaoke or eat outside or generally just chill out ?
We'll eat together often although we've been training hard for the past month or two so there wasn't enough hanging out time. After the qualifiers everyone loaded up WC3 and played Uther party (except me lawl) and had a blast. We realized we should have more fun outside of DotA together. It helps bond the team.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
save ur wc3 rpgs for until after u win ti5
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On June 03 2015 03:21 ahswtini wrote:
save ur wc3 rpgs for until after u win ti5
NewBee certainly made that clear for everyone else :D
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Congrats on the win Heen!!!
I knew both MVP squads would make it through the TI5 SEA Qualifiers!
On June 03 2015 02:13 Heen wrote:
Slightly unrelated but I've noticed that people find our drafts super clowny and non-standard at times. A hero is only as good as you believe it is to be. 99% of the people in DotA think heroes are good or bad depending on what the top top tier teams are drafting anyways. I don't want to believe anything other than my(our) first hand experience. Why not pick gyrocopter? Because I think it's a trash hero. We've never lost to a gyrocopter in a scrim and have no reason to believe it's good. Maybe SEA is just bad at the hero. I used to think Tidehunter was a trash hero but then we played iceiceice's Tidehunter and changed our mind completely. There was a reason he was 19-2 at the hero in officials. But my point is your ideas about the game have to be first-hand or it's not genuine. It's just a copycat mentality.
However don't you feel that could potentially hurt the team potential? I mean there is a reason Xboct wins on Gyrocopter and reason certain teams pick it as well. I think it also helps to try out new strategies and heroes as well. I mean you do not have to do a copy cat but more of taking certain heroes in consideration for their potential.
Anyways best of luck and keep practicing to solidify a strong position in TI5 and so MVP Phoenix can get enough practice and experience as well to end up in one of the 16 teams in TI5 as well.
P.S. Do you guys get to scrim Chinese teams as well as SEA teams? It would be interesting to see that you guys scrim with iG, Newbee, LGD, VG, and EHOME.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
they've found it hard to scrim Chinese teams because of the lag going across the great firewall. I believe they bootcamped in China before ti4 and may do it again this year
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Hey Heen, I'll be cheering you guys on at Ti5.
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Corinthos
Canada1842 Posts
Congrats Heen!
re: hi cats! hi mani!
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Whooooo go Heen! Will definitely be cheering for you guys in Seattle. Hey, you should do a fan meet up or something!
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Hello Heen,
I have a question about certain heroes that were not used as much during your time in MVP.Phoenix and maybe the lack of hero utilization.
So my biggest hero question is: Why did you guys rarely utilize or play Puck (during MVP.Phoenix) when many of the top teams are constantly drafting it? (Well I know most teams have really good puck players like S4, Dendi, 430, Fata)
Other questions:
Why did you guys never really develop the Tiny+Wisp combo? (Given that you guys started using the Bristleback+Wisp [IMO I think you guys popularized it after Dreamleague S2])
Could you guys (if given the chance be able to) showcase a strong showing with Anti Mage, Morphling, and Gyrocopter against top tier teams (as both MVP. Phoenix and MVP. Hot6ix?
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Hi Heen, is the rumor true that you guys took Black^ to coach both MVP teams? Not that I question your organization's decision, but I'm honestly worried about this. I actually think this would do more harm than good.
I like Black^ as a player, and his farming skills is definitely top notch. but with his passive, farm oriented playstyle, don't you guys think he isn't the right person to coach a team that mostly drafts aggresive, team fight oriented lineups?
I like Forev and QO's aggresiveness and I'm afraid that Black^ will influence them to play more passively and therefore, will affect team synergy. The current patch doesn't favor heavy farmers so I'm not sure if Black^ could be the right coach.
Just my thoughts on this, but hey, maybe it might work out.
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please excuse my formatting and runny message.
Hey Heen and or Heen's teammates, i just want you to know that your experiences at TI5 were well worth it and that i'm proud of you guys. It made my experience of the tournament better as well.
This is just coming from someone who wishes they could be doing what you're doing!
In fact, a lot of people dreamed of being like you or your teammates even if they don't quite realize it.
I believe it's all emphasized by how we grew up as teenagers with a profound sense of discovery and care for every little thing whenever we played a game. While it used to be a bit of a stigma to game back then, it then became a privilege for those of us kids who had to try that much harder to get a game in or tried our hardest to convince our parents that this was something we really cared about.
I also feel it's a little known fact that it takes a lot of positive rl skills to get anywhere in competitive gaming in the first place, not the least of which a set of leadership and communication skills.
If you ever feel as though the things you've been doing are a waste, please remember the sensation of treating it like it's do-or-die and not knowing the heights you could have reached.
As is stands now, i think you guys are plenty capable even if you'd rather be playing things differently.
That is my honest opinion and i know how difficult it is to lead a group of individuals who aren't necessarily on the same page for w/e reason.
"...Empathy requires inquiry as much as imagination. Empathy requires knowing you know nothing.
[It] means acknowledging a horizon of context that extends perpetually beyond what you can see."
I hope you guys continue enjoying the game and continue to feel injected with inspirational ideas from each day to the next.
Keep your mind open to the flow of things (ingame) and good luck!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lkegWmQ.png)
gratz
