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On May 29 2015 16:39 hunter_x wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2015 16:35 FHDH wrote:
Qojqva is terribly overrated. Maybe if he was full-time he'd become more robust but his playstyle is very narrow and outside of a small handful of heroes his play is just not that impressive. It's been like this. Ok i think i give up. The Qojqva is so Bad bandwagon is just to strong here. Talking about overrated i know a Secret Player too..
Bandwagon? This isn't a recent thing. I didn't even watch the finals; I took a nap and woke up expecting they won. Among those of us who have been watching Tinker all year, many of us came to this conclusion a long time ago.
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On May 29 2015 13:02 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2015 10:12 shouldbeworking wrote:On May 29 2015 09:39 ref4 wrote:
I bet if Black sees any VG players in real life right now he'll straight up murder them in cold blood rofl
from guaranteed TI invite to not even be able to go as the wild card it must have sucked for him. Why? He should be thankful. Its obvious now that they carried him. He never carried them like Hao did on his PL on some games. After/during DAC black was getting universal praise that I recall. His decision making (especially on his medusa) was heavily praised as well as his farming. Support was the position where the other teams outplayed tinker hard. Some poor drafts hurt them as well (or poorly executed).
You are right. I don't think that Black^ is the only problem with Mouz/Tinker. No idea how their team dynamic is, but as we see now it's not close to tier1 yet. Dota is harder than ever now with teams putting so much effort into the game. Mechanical skills and experience isn't worth as much now when top teams have star captains and coaches. Even ridiculously skilled teams like VG is having problems now. EG, Secret, and LGD have well proven shot callers and I predict those 3 teams will be top 4 at TI5 for sure.
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If Qojqva played for EG, it wouldn't be a big shock if he also developed to become a better player within that team. A lot of players are probably capable of playing on a t1 team, but very few are people who heavily push a team towards becoming better. For example with EG one could probably switch Sumail with some other players and eventually the team wouldn't be all that different, but if PPD went away the team probably wouldn't be even close to as good as it is now. This is really taking nothing away from Sumail, just that I think there are a lot more people who can be competent mid players than there are people who can lead a group of 5 people towards becoming a better team, both through understanding the draft and the flow of the game and through improving the team outside of the game.
For Qojqva I think the "problem" in terms of joining an even better team is that what exactly has he done that would make teams like Secret, c9 or EG want him in their team? At least from the outside looking in these past few seasons don't look so good for him. Both TL (although their TI performance ended up being pretty good) and TT have crumbled pretty hard as a team. Of course without knowing what happened it would be stupid to blame Qojqva for this, but at the very least it doesn't seem like he has been able to make the teams work better.
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On May 29 2015 16:42 FHDH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2015 16:39 hunter_x wrote:On May 29 2015 16:35 FHDH wrote:
Qojqva is terribly overrated. Maybe if he was full-time he'd become more robust but his playstyle is very narrow and outside of a small handful of heroes his play is just not that impressive. It's been like this. Ok i think i give up. The Qojqva is so Bad bandwagon is just to strong here. Talking about overrated i know a Secret Player too.. Bandwagon? This isn't a recent thing. I didn't even watch the finals; I took a nap and woke up expecting they won. Among those of us who have been watching Tinker all year, many of us came to this conclusion a long time ago.
This. From the early deays of Tinker we were a lot to already say he was only good at hitting creep. When Black^ join I was the first to raise the obvious problem of having a second guy that is more or less only good at hitting creeps too. There's nothing new here and it ends as should have been expected (especially with this meta).
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On May 29 2015 17:02 Furikawari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2015 16:42 FHDH wrote:On May 29 2015 16:39 hunter_x wrote:On May 29 2015 16:35 FHDH wrote:
Qojqva is terribly overrated. Maybe if he was full-time he'd become more robust but his playstyle is very narrow and outside of a small handful of heroes his play is just not that impressive. It's been like this. Ok i think i give up. The Qojqva is so Bad bandwagon is just to strong here. Talking about overrated i know a Secret Player too.. Bandwagon? This isn't a recent thing. I didn't even watch the finals; I took a nap and woke up expecting they won. Among those of us who have been watching Tinker all year, many of us came to this conclusion a long time ago. This. From the early deays of Tinker we were a lot to already say he was only good at hitting creep. When Black^ join I was the first to raise the obvious problem of having a second guy that is more or less only good at hitting creeps too. There's nothing new here and it ends as should have been expected (especially with this meta).
Forget just the early days of Tinker, people have been saying it about Qojqva since Liquid, and that's basically when he was the biggest thing keeping them scene relevant.
And Black, in general, isn't that greedy of a player anymore. When he first came to Tinker, I think his most played heroes were QoP and Axe. He's a decent playmaker, just not enough for a team that is forced to live and die by dominating 4p+1.
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On May 29 2015 16:55 spudde123 wrote:
For Qojqva I think the "problem" in terms of joining an even better team is that what exactly has he done that would make teams like Secret, c9 or EG want him in their team?
Exactly this. The top players that get poached from relatively unknown team usually manage to achieve something greater than expected.
Last year DK is a perfect example of this. ICE3 and Mushi both managed to get impressive results with their standout play at TI3.
If the COL squad manages to get break top 6 at TI5 then it would be easy to assume the standout players might get poached/leave for greener pastures.
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Black has history of making unknow team into somehting. Did not he last year make absolutly unknow yang playes chinese team into TI? They themself did not expected it and sudddenly they need to get visas, et. If that is not an example of positive influence by black nohting will be. But yes, he is not a strategist like PPD for example, but even from his position as a carry he made his team mach better and he did not played only safelane position on that team, he often played mid invoker for example.
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I remember a game that they lost because they had a terribly undefarmed chen
You know whqt was the problem ? Chen was never really pressure, it was black and qojqva havinf to kill "just 1 more creep"
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All and all i think its bad for the scene in general that 3 of the 5 players arent at ti this year.
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Can we just have a few pages of silence for our team? Out of respect and all, also has any one seen shaella? is he ok? This is a traumatic time for some of us.
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?
I'm fine.
Honestly not even mad, just disappointed.
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On May 29 2015 22:11 Shaella wrote:
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I'm fine.
Honestly not even mad, just disappointed.
Dito....
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On May 29 2015 22:11 Shaella wrote:
?
I'm fine.
Honestly not even mad, just disappointed.
your not alone while i don't favor TT over the other teams i like .. i certainly like them over those NA teams and expected them to win
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Germany3128 Posts
qojqva retiring. Not sure if I've seen this somewhere before so I will post it here
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So, this was a hobby of his until he finished school? I'm...deeply irritated about this.
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qoqjva tweeted that he's not "retiring" hes just on break until after TI5 basically he's done with team tinker
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TC is very stable player, but unfortunately he can not make the plays qojqva can.
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On June 05 2015 03:16 NInoff wrote:
TC is very stable player, but unfortunately he can not make the plays qojqva can.
you mean farm and stay put ?
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On June 05 2015 03:24 Faruko wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 03:16 NInoff wrote:
TC is very stable player, but unfortunately he can not make the plays qojqva can.
you mean farm and stay put ?
Qojqva on a whole 'nother level with the farm and stay put plays
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Their performance yesterday was actually pretty good.
If they make TC a regular and have the patience to stay mostly intact after the post-TI 5 shuffle, I could see this team actually being pretty good. They accomplish everything they need to early and mid game, but they seem to crumble after 60 minutes into the game pretty much every time.
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EPT
