EPTPSG.LGD Discussion - Page 7
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Kamille
Monaco1035 Posts
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goody153
44282 Posts
On November 19 2015 22:53 Kamille wrote: Come back xiao8! not if Newbee gets him first ! | ||
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lolnoty
United States7166 Posts
On paper looks like the best chinese team in a long time. | ||
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goody153
44282 Posts
Best aggressive 1 position, best midlaner , MMY has always been consistent as fuck as a support + the best chinese captain. My only question would be xz since i have no idea how well the dude plays offlane. Secret 2.0 china version If this works out we finally get a chinese team that can contest the championship contending western teams at last. Hopefully our west vs east action gets revived. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On March 07 2016 22:59 goody153 wrote: This rumored lineup man. I hope this is true. Best aggressive 1 position, best midlaner , MMY has always been consistent as fuck as a support + the best chinese captain. My only question would be xz since i have no idea how well the dude plays offlane. Secret 2.0 china version If this works out we finally get a chinese team that can contest the championship contending western teams at last. Hopefully our west vs east action gets revived. xz is top 2 offlaners in china any time..he is pretty stable and was one of the most stable offlaners at TI5. moon is a big fan of him and treated him as his idol after TI5 also ,there is some huge drama going on between sylar and ruru over sylar leaving LGD .they took everything on weibo.it's translated here https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/49ckln/rurus_response_to_sylars_acquisition/ LGD offered Sylar 1M RMB (160K USD) to extend the contract, Sylar said: Fuck off, you gave lazy guy MMY (a player didn't try hard as me) 1M and me the same? | ||
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CxWiLL
China830 Posts
According to Zhou in his stream, Sylar is a gunman, he never get involved in B/P or any decision making, he just delivers in his role. But there may be something wrong with his personality. Left LGD for VG when VG is a non-factor and back to LGD after getting 2nd place TI4. And now this. | ||
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Diavlo
Belgium2915 Posts
On March 07 2016 22:59 goody153 wrote: This rumored lineup man. I hope this is true. Best aggressive 1 position, best midlaner , MMY has always been consistent as fuck as a support + the best chinese captain. My only question would be xz since i have no idea how well the dude plays offlane. Secret 2.0 china version If this works out we finally get a chinese team that can contest the championship contending western teams at last. Hopefully our west vs east action gets revived. Every Chinese shuffle there is 1 or 2 Secret 2.0 china version and in the past year all of them failed. Remember the VG + Hao team, the previous LGD with Xiao8, the IG with Burning and Ferrari? On paper they were all super star teams and they were all incredibly disappointing. As for xz, he is good although just like the rest of CDEC he has a pretty small hero pool. China has a pretty shallow pool of good offlaners it's kind of weird. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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goody153
44282 Posts
I think this one will work out. Aggressif, MMY and Maybe are really skilled individually. Besides it's xiao8 doing the captaining so i guess i have faith that this will work out imo(well hopefully i want more east vs west). Assuming the roster is true Kinda funny that now that i think about that time nobody expected ehome and CDEC to do well but they did. Well there were people who expected LGD since it has xiao8 and friends. | ||
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lolnoty
United States7166 Posts
On March 08 2016 02:26 Diavlo wrote: Every Chinese shuffle there is 1 or 2 Secret 2.0 china version and in the past year all of them failed. Remember the VG + Hao team, the previous LGD with Xiao8, the IG with Burning and Ferrari? On paper they were all super star teams and they were all incredibly disappointing. As for xz, he is good although just like the rest of CDEC he has a pretty small hero pool. China has a pretty shallow pool of good offlaners it's kind of weird. I didn't get hyped for any of those teams except the xiao8. By all measures his team did well at TI5. He's easily the best captain in China and that's what wins games. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On March 08 2016 02:32 rabidch wrote: VG + Hao in 6.83 was top 2 world, but there weren't a lot of big tournaments at the end of that patch. A lot of people forget that... they were top 2 with black in 6.83 too..it was because their supports were doing pretty good that patch.. | ||
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Pathetic
Canada63 Posts
On November 19 2015 22:53 Kamille wrote: Come back xiao8! I would love to see something like Big God 2.0, that team was so hyped during DAC. Would be fantastic to see something similar hopefully with a ton of drive to win a big event or the next major. | ||
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caiovigg
Brazil1802 Posts
On March 08 2016 02:26 Diavlo wrote: Every Chinese shuffle there is 1 or 2 Secret 2.0 china version and in the past year all of them failed. Remember the VG + Hao team, the previous LGD with Xiao8, the IG with Burning and Ferrari? On paper they were all super star teams and they were all incredibly disappointing. As for xz, he is good although just like the rest of CDEC he has a pretty small hero pool. China has a pretty shallow pool of good offlaners it's kind of weird. IG with burning and Ferrari were considered an all star team? I always expected them to be bad/in the middle of the Chinese teams | ||
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Diavlo
Belgium2915 Posts
On March 08 2016 02:32 rabidch wrote: VG + Hao in 6.83 was top 2 world, but there weren't a lot of big tournaments at the end of that patch. A lot of people forget that... I don't know about the patch but VG and Hao played 6 premier tournaments together. They got : - 1st at SL where Secret tanked and EG was absent. - 2nd in iLeague without EG or Secret (and got wrecked by LGD) - 3d at the Summit behind Secret and EG - 4th at MDL behind Secret, EG and C9 and at TI5 - didn't place at ESL where they lost to EG. That's not the results of a top 2 world team. And LGD did worse than VG in the same period (and let's not even talk about ig). I'm by no mean saying that those teams are bad but literally every shuffle season they switch 3-4 big names and people call 1 or 2 of the remaining teams "all-stars" and these teams don't actually do any better than they did before. The worst was after TI4 when every team was "all-stars" LGD with Maybe, MMY and Sylar? All-stars, Nb with Rabbit? All-stars, VG with fy, Fenrir, Super and ice3/Black? All-stars... And this team, well I don't know, is Aggressif a better carry than Sylar? I don't think so. Is xiao8 a better support than DDC? I don't think so either. A better captain than ROTK? Yes but I don't think by a huge margin. Is xz a better offlaner than ROTK? Absolutely. But LGD sucked in this iteration so you would need a pretty big improvement for this team to rival the western top dogs. | ||
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lolnoty
United States7166 Posts
On March 08 2016 06:09 Diavlo wrote: I don't know about the patch but VG and Hao played 6 premier tournaments together. They got : - 1st at SL where Secret tanked and EG was absent. - 2nd in iLeague without EG or Secret (and got wrecked by LGD) - 3d at the Summit behind Secret and EG - 4th at MDL behind Secret, EG and C9 and at TI5 - didn't place at ESL where they lost to EG. That's not the results of a top 2 world team. And LGD did worse than VG in the same period (and let's not even talk about ig). I'm by no mean saying that those teams are bad but literally every shuffle season they switch 3-4 big names and people call 1 or 2 of the remaining teams "all-stars" and these teams don't actually do any better than they did before. The worst was after TI4 when every team was "all-stars" LGD with Maybe, MMY and Sylar? All-stars, Nb with Rabbit? All-stars, VG with fy, Fenrir, Super and ice3/Black? All-stars... And this team, well I don't know, is Aggressif a better carry than Sylar? I don't think so. Is xiao8 a better support than DDC? I don't think so either. A better captain than ROTK? Yes but I don't think by a huge margin. Is xz a better offlaner than ROTK? Absolutely. But LGD sucked in this iteration so you would need a pretty big improvement for this team to rival the western top dogs. Aggressif is a better carry than sylar because he works in multiple metas. Sylar by his own admission struggled in certain metas because they didn't suit him and demanded active, low-farm carries. His own Drama on reddit said he liked this patch because it suits him. Sylar advocates really, really focus on stats far too much and not what is given up or oppertunities lost for those stats. I'm not saying he's BAD, but there's been a trend of people thinking he's the best because he's farming a lot, not dying. Yet his team is losing hard core... there's a link there and it's similar to why people who think rtz/ee are bad carries because they take risks and die don't understand dota. Aggressif is one of those carries that takes the risks, won't put up as much numbers, but will work better around how dota2 is played these days. Xiao8 is a better support than DDC, and I didn't know it was in question. DDC is another person who has a name at the position, but Xiao8 played a brilliant support for a lot of TI5. Xiao8 is SUCH a better captain than rOTK that your statement just disturbs me completely. Forget the matches Xiao8's team destroyed rOtk in 2014/2015, he straight up outdrafted rOtk in the majority of their matches captain vs captain. Like lose 3 lanes into zero plan outdrafted, and frequently. This roster is better as a whole than even TI4 newbee (which literally only worked with Xiao8 wrangling the ex-tongfu idiots from throwing constantly, check out the TI4 bootcamp docu) and the past TI5 LGD (which is a success to get 3rd by all measures). I don't think LGD will dominate at Manilla, but for TI think this will be the top placing Chinese team. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
The rumored LGD roster seems very promising to me. Hard to say of course how exactly they would do, but to me at least it seems like a clear upgrade, both in terms of leadership and player ability. | ||
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goody153
44282 Posts
On March 08 2016 06:09 Diavlo wrote: I don't know about the patch but VG and Hao played 6 premier tournaments together. They got : - 1st at SL where Secret tanked and EG was absent. - 2nd in iLeague without EG or Secret (and got wrecked by LGD) - 3d at the Summit behind Secret and EG - 4th at MDL behind Secret, EG and C9 and at TI5 - didn't place at ESL where they lost to EG. That's not the results of a top 2 world team. And LGD did worse than VG in the same period (and let's not even talk about ig). I'm by no mean saying that those teams are bad but literally every shuffle season they switch 3-4 big names and people call 1 or 2 of the remaining teams "all-stars" and these teams don't actually do any better than they did before. The worst was after TI4 when every team was "all-stars" LGD with Maybe, MMY and Sylar? All-stars, Nb with Rabbit? All-stars, VG with fy, Fenrir, Super and ice3/Black? All-stars... And this team, well I don't know, is Aggressif a better carry than Sylar? I don't think so. Is xiao8 a better support than DDC? I don't think so either. A better captain than ROTK? Yes but I don't think by a huge margin. Is xz a better offlaner than ROTK? Absolutely. But LGD sucked in this iteration so you would need a pretty big improvement for this team to rival the western top dogs. I can't help but laugh at the bolded part haha (not that i disagree) I was skeptical with the rabbit addition to newbee if they were to work out since they lost xiao8. For the first LGD before xiao8 i think i thought they were gonna do good but not exactly all star. The VG with black i was also skeptical. For the post-DAC shuffle though i believed that IG, VG and LGD was gonna do good., partly cause i thought Hao was an upgrade to black and nobody is holding them back(which isn't that true anymore) and that LGD seems good except for Yao. Sylar and Aggressif play really differently but between them i would definitely take aggressif not because sylar is worse just that he's a diifferent kind of carry. Sylar prefers and excels in heavy 1 position lineups when he is given so much space, if you notice teams with sylar's team usually have this kind of drafts and he's not very good at uncomfortable spacemaking 1 pos or the neglected 1 position playstyle. So he's a bit passive and less flexible though if he is given the space he is really good at utilizing it. Aggressif is different he's active, like to his similar sounding name he is aggressive. When the meta calls for active playstyle aggressif is your guy. He is like Hao just better. The team rallies around sylar while Aggressif rallies with the team and sometimes takes the lead of the charge. Like i'd see more 1v5 lineups with sylar and with aggressif you'd see dual-tri core lineups. If it's about playing AM, morph or that kind of lineups then sylar is definitely superior but for the rest i see aggressif as better. I'd actually prefer burning over sylar honestly since burning is a lot more flexible than sylar. As for xiao8 support idk if he's better than ddc, but he's not spectacular at it either way. As a captain though, i would say he's clearly superior to ROTK not that ROTK is bad ROTK is good captaining but he's better, his drafts are clearer and the he's playing has always looked cohesize and organized as fuck. I can definitely see this working out. Just this one though the other rumored lineups like the Ehome lineup i don't trust though it looks balanced. but the question of will it work out will be shown in time if this roster is confirmed(is it ? or is it still rumors ?) as much as i trust aggressif we don't know if he's the most contributing factor to drafting, ingame strategies, morale, shotcalling or if it's somebody else or a combination of it to why CDEC had success at TI5. But judging from individual skill of the players + xiao8 yeah i am totally hyped for this On March 08 2016 16:43 spudde123 wrote: The rumored LGD roster seems very promising to me. Hard to say of course how exactly they would do, but to me at least it seems like a clear upgrade, both in terms of leadership and player ability. Yeah same. But of course we can never rule out drafting, ingame shotcalling, strategizing, morale etc which are usually equally important factors which we will never know. | ||
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Diavlo
Belgium2915 Posts
On March 08 2016 16:25 lolnoty wrote: Aggressif is a better carry than sylar because he works in multiple metas. Sylar by his own admission struggled in certain metas because they didn't suit him and demanded active, low-farm carries. His own Drama on reddit said he liked this patch because it suits him. Sylar advocates really, really focus on stats far too much and not what is given up or oppertunities lost for those stats. I'm not saying he's BAD, but there's been a trend of people thinking he's the best because he's farming a lot, not dying. Yet his team is losing hard core... there's a link there and it's similar to why people who think rtz/ee are bad carries because they take risks and die don't understand dota. Aggressif is one of those carries that takes the risks, won't put up as much numbers, but will work better around how dota2 is played these days. Xiao8 is a better support than DDC, and I didn't know it was in question. DDC is another person who has a name at the position, but Xiao8 played a brilliant support for a lot of TI5. Xiao8 is SUCH a better captain than rOTK that your statement just disturbs me completely. Forget the matches Xiao8's team destroyed rOtk in 2014/2015, he straight up outdrafted rOtk in the majority of their matches captain vs captain. Like lose 3 lanes into zero plan outdrafted, and frequently. This roster is better as a whole than even TI4 newbee (which literally only worked with Xiao8 wrangling the ex-tongfu idiots from throwing constantly, check out the TI4 bootcamp docu) and the past TI5 LGD (which is a success to get 3rd by all measures). I don't think LGD will dominate at Manilla, but for TI think this will be the top placing Chinese team. Aggressif works in multiple metas? What? CDEC did very well in one meta/ patch and once their heroes got nerfed they kind of sucked. Aggressif was an amazing gyro, Ember and PL but I haven't really been impressed with much else. As for the captain part, ROTK's teams have done consistently very well despite having him playing in them (and having arguably weaker teammates than Xiao8). Yes I think he's worse but not by a huge margin. To me this team is the exact same as the ones we've seen in the past, a collection of good players under Xiao8. They have potential like the rest of them but I wouldn't be surprised that they fall flat. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On March 08 2016 06:09 Diavlo wrote: I don't know about the patch but VG and Hao played 6 premier tournaments together. They got : - 1st at SL where Secret tanked and EG was absent. - 2nd in iLeague without EG or Secret (and got wrecked by LGD) - 3d at the Summit behind Secret and EG - 4th at MDL behind Secret, EG and C9 and at TI5 - didn't place at ESL where they lost to EG. That's not the results of a top 2 world team. And LGD did worse than VG in the same period (and let's not even talk about ig). I'm by no mean saying that those teams are bad but literally every shuffle season they switch 3-4 big names and people call 1 or 2 of the remaining teams "all-stars" and these teams don't actually do any better than they did before. The worst was after TI4 when every team was "all-stars" LGD with Maybe, MMY and Sylar? All-stars, Nb with Rabbit? All-stars, VG with fy, Fenrir, Super and ice3/Black? All-stars... And this team, well I don't know, is Aggressif a better carry than Sylar? I don't think so. Is xiao8 a better support than DDC? I don't think so either. A better captain than ROTK? Yes but I don't think by a huge margin. Is xz a better offlaner than ROTK? Absolutely. But LGD sucked in this iteration so you would need a pretty big improvement for this team to rival the western top dogs. patches mattered a hell of a lot for that roster, for 6.83 with hao they were masters of nearly every single hero that became important in that patch (sniper, troll, jugg, pl) but they failed since those were all nerfed and the meta changed to something where hao couldnt carry as hard and super couldnt play like an idiot for how ice3 and fy and fenrir played. the last 6.83 tournament was SL btw, the rest of those tournaments are 6.84. Secret was not looking good in those days because they hated the meta, and evil geniuses were their only contenders for that top 1 slot, but they lost to empire at MLG (who earlier thoroughly lost to iG at Major All Stars). EG was top 2 just on the basis of DAC and because they're far better at playing chinese teams than western teams you really have to watch VG's games at that time to see how much better they were than almost all the other teams, and far better than when they were with black | ||
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lolnoty
United States7166 Posts
On March 09 2016 03:38 Diavlo wrote: Aggressif works in multiple metas? What? CDEC did very well in one meta/ patch and once their heroes got nerfed they kind of sucked. Aggressif was an amazing gyro, Ember and PL but I haven't really been impressed with much else. As for the captain part, ROTK's teams have done consistently very well despite having him playing in them (and having arguably weaker teammates than Xiao8). Yes I think he's worse but not by a huge margin. To me this team is the exact same as the ones we've seen in the past, a collection of good players under Xiao8. They have potential like the rest of them but I wouldn't be surprised that they fall flat. His style displayed in CDEC is what works in multiple metas. He has an understanding of Carry better than Sylar, unless you think Aggressif can't farm farm farm. Sylar's areas of strength are narrow and many carries can offer you his game, aggressif's areas of strength are not common and learning them could take a long time. OK, let's talk strictly drafts Xiao8 vs rOtk. It's not mostly the same when, through your long history of vs'ing each other, you pretty frequently just draft 2-3 losing lanes into zero visible path to victory. Xiao8 beyond being very good in play (he wasn't a great pro mid, was OK offlane, but did very good as the support at TI5.) and IMO the better leader in game as evidenced by his team's consistently good decisions vs different strategies, he's just a better drafter by miles. I don't see what's wrong with this being like past LGD's, I don't understand how a non-Azarkon can consider TI5 LGD a disappointing team. They did really well. I see this team as better than that team when they can get going. TI5 Yao was not a great offlaner, I think almost any young blood is an improvement there. TI5 Aggressif > Sylar. | ||
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