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On June 05 2014 04:47 Laurens wrote:
The Summit tomorrow... we'll get another look at Na'Vi.
I've bet against them 3 times, now that they still have decent odds.
If they continue slumping, I get rares.
If they suddenly start playing well again, the fanboy in me is happy.
win-win ^^
The atmosphere should improve their mood if it is similar to Take's Homestory Cup. Should be fun to watch
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On June 01 2014 03:32 ForTehDarkseid wrote:No, they didn't. They only lost two finals to mtw. Show nested quote +
That alone gives N'avi the irregularity for me that they can just pull out their skills out of the rabbits ass whenever the international comes up
That won't be a rational assesment. NaVi were like fish in a water with TI2 meta, at TI3 West had a meta advantage over East in general, but here comes the meta that favors Asian players at most and people have all the rights in the world to question NaVi's decision to forgot Dota entirely and start anew in a last month possible.
The eastern/chinese teams did about as well as expected. All the T1 eastern teams save LGD.cn beat out every western team except Alliance and Na'vi, which was totally reasonable to expect based on the tournament results of the past 4 or so months leading up to TI. The only other big upset was Orange's run, but that was about as much evidence of West>East as if VP had knocked out Na'vi early and made a run to the finals. Aui, who actually played at TI, said he felt the eastern meta was ahead of the west, which is why, for example, Dignitas got thoroughly stomped by DK yet did better against LGD. (source: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-general/357-20-20-aui_2000 )
TI3's meta favored ALLIANCE, not the west. Not all western teams play the same, just like not all eastern teams do.
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On June 04 2014 09:28 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 04:51 HellhoundXVI wrote:
2. And, how many of those were in knock-out stage of a big tournament? Answer : none
honestly that's kinda dumb because 1) there are few big tournaments and 2) there are few knockout games so if you're gonna go with that exclusion like 95% of games don't count. for what it's worth, newbee 2-0'd DK in RO4 of MarsTV and have won their last 7 games against DK, with a lifetime 8-2 record. that's nothing to sneeze at. i don't think any other eastern team is that dominant against DK, let alone western teams. Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 04:51 HellhoundXVI wrote:
3. And, IG decimated them, by banning enchantress followed by outplay. The saving grace was the stand in factor. But, IG is supposed to be a struggling team. And, it kind of gets canceled out. and iG, your so-called struggling team, wiped DK's face in the finals 4-1 in pretty dominating fashion. sure DK is supposed to be struggling and all, but they're still a good team who wiped SL9 undefeated. iG are looking much better in their last few games, and within the eastern scene the teams are mostly very close to each other. i don't want to get into some big fight in a team discussion thread, just wanted to clear a few things.
Hello opterown,
For the first point, you need to understand that this is a navi team thread, a team that has fought back in many big tournaments on LAN. So, you have to expect that any other team we discuss here will face scrutiny based on big LAN results. Unfortunately, newbee does not have that. However, this line of discussion is not irrelevant either. Newbee had 4 chances to win/qualify for big/international LANs. They reached semi-final in WPC, and did not qualify for SL9, The Summit, and ESL. Granted, they did really well in qualifiers, but it is not enough. Since, you also brought up MarsTV, iG placed 5th in that tournament and yet they won WPC. So, am I supposed to weigh these two tournaments equally? The results follow no trend and bizarre in terms of each other. There is also a similar result happening last year. Tongfu placed 6th in Alienware Cup, but won the championship of a major Chinese LAN right after that. And, Tongfu had the best result in TI3 amongst Chinese teams.
On June 01 2014 05:23 HellhoundXVI wrote:
I will not disagree with you that the East had a meta disadvantage during TI3, but it was self-inflicted. This time, the real scary team is DK. This is a team that can play 10 strats in 10 different games and execute them crisply. DK is like the perfect opponent for even the Perfect Navi. For the other teams, newbee only seems good because they beat DK a few times. Newbee, like xiao8's LGD, will get figured out. IG gave a pretty good demonstration. However, the difference is if IG gets its form back, they will become a championship contender. The other teams are good, but not championship material. On the western side, [A] is slowly getting its form back, but still not champion-level. EG is really good, but is not even close to DK. Navi is on a big slump. So, its truly DK thats ahead on meta, not the whole eastern scene.
This was the post I made before the one you replied to. The sentences on bold should be sufficient to answer your second point.
This brings me to your last paragraph. You said that you were not looking for a fight, just wanted to clarify a few things. I was not looking for a fight either. I just made my opinion known. However, when you use phrases like "honestly that's kinda dumb", "and iG, your so-called struggling team". it conveys a rather contradicting attitude. On top of that, you completely missed what I wrote on the post before that. From the forum rules:
On May 12 2014 04:08 Heyoka wrote:
Welcome to LiquidDota.com!
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3. Think before you post.
> Careful!
Consider carefully the context of the conversation and the user you are responding to before posting. It's very important to be informed about a discussion before posting your thoughts. Do not post just for the sake of posting.
I will keep it at that.
I am really thankful for your LR threads. I perfectly understand that it is possible for you to miss things easily. But, you are also a mod. You represent LD/TL. So, every mistake you make can be amplified.
Simcerely,
Yours truly...
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opterown
Australia54748 Posts
my apologies, clearly i should have chosen my wording better, i shall try to do so next time. i should also mention that all views expressed in my posts are my own, and do not represent the interests of TL, LD, or any associated organisation.
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On June 05 2014 14:44 opterown wrote:
my apologies, clearly i should have chosen my wording better, i shall try to do so next time. i should also mention that all views expressed in my posts are my own, and do not represent the interests of TL, LD, or any associated organisation.
Apology accepted.
You are a better man than I thought. It takes courage to admit mistake. I salute you for that.
Cheers!
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I have always thought highly of Na'Vi, especially during their CS haydays but...
I am very worried for Na'Vi's general performance. They look like they have not practiced for well over a month or so. I hope when it comes to TI4 they prove me and most of their haters wrong but honestly they look... very bad at the moment.
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Hoping for some better games later in the tournament, still seem to be searching for their style and playing their first two against the chinese teams wasn't going to be easy. They seem to be putting a lot on that brew and I'd rather see Dondo on a more Dondo hero.
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On June 06 2014 06:43 giftdgecko wrote:
Hoping for some better games later in the tournament, still seem to be searching for their style and playing their first two against the chinese teams wasn't going to be easy. They seem to be putting a lot on that brew and I'd rather see Dondo on a more Dondo hero.
Well, I wouldn't say their game over EG was completely convincing.... like their game over Fnatic :D But either way they showed much more signs of life in these last two games... As for Dondo heroes... I guess Tinker's making it onto that list but I still don't really like Dendi's Ember 
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Least they're looking a bit better...
Iuno, I want to see them completely and utterly back on top once again but I guess that will take time considering they still don't practice >_>
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They showed flashes of good play today, but there were other moments where they looked completely lost. Hopefully tomorrow they continue to improve.
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On June 07 2014 12:48 Seraphic wrote:
Least they're looking a bit better...
Iuno, I want to see them completely and utterly back on top once again but I guess that will take time considering they still don't practice >_>
On the contrary, currently Na'Vi practice more then ever if you exclude The International preparations.
At least is what v1lat and their manager saying.
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opterown
Australia54748 Posts
On June 08 2014 01:41 elagrion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2014 12:48 Seraphic wrote:
Least they're looking a bit better...
Iuno, I want to see them completely and utterly back on top once again but I guess that will take time considering they still don't practice >_> On the contrary, currently Na'Vi practice more then ever if you exclude The International preparations. At least is what v1lat and their manager saying.
cool, that's nice to hear. hope they can do well here/at ESLONE
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On June 08 2014 01:41 elagrion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2014 12:48 Seraphic wrote:
Least they're looking a bit better...
Iuno, I want to see them completely and utterly back on top once again but I guess that will take time considering they still don't practice >_> On the contrary, currently Na'Vi practice more then ever if you exclude The International preparations. At least is what v1lat and their manager saying.
Not quite yet. They weren't practicing before "The Summit" because Puppey and KuroKy were at EU Hub during TI4 qualifiers. And they weren't practicing before TI4 qualifiers either, it was that time when some of their players had vacations after Starladder 9.
After The Summit they will have another 10 day break, don't know if they are going to practice during it. The real preparation should start after that with boot camp before ESL One Frankfurt.
Here is a source with Na'Vi's schedule during this time:
http://read.navi-gaming.com/en/team_news/navi_schedule_2014_1
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Na'vi coming through at TI2 and 3 was, well Na'vi, but unless they shape up I really do not see them doing it again. I'd love for them to make top 2 again even if just for the tradition to go on, but given their state of play, and that of the top teams atm... it's hard to have faith in another finish like before.
I can see them beating EU and NA teams at TI, but it's hard to imagine them going through east again like they did before. And at prize pool over 10mil likely, teams will prepare like never before. Hope I'm wrong, cause TI without Na'Vi making it to the finals will not be the same to me.
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right now navis weakness is their draft. not to mention their play is raw and unrefined, and combined with the draft leave the game completely up to the individual skills of the players and their chemistry together. so basically, not enough practice like everybody else said  . still, its still incredible to see these guys play
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I think Na'Vi are coming to grips with the "Arteezy"/DK meta - the super farming mid rather than the dynamic puck/pudge/gank type mid that was common essentially up until this year. Arteezy kind of forced EG into doing it (especially without Fear) and DK fell into it naturally on the back of 3 superhuman solo players - Burning/Mushi/IceIceIce. All (4) jokes aside I don't think it's unfair to say that Xboct is not the same kind of player as Burning/mushi/ice/dendi/arteezy so that can limit their options. I don't think he is holding back the team and he didn't throw any harder than any other member of Navi this weekend, but they do need to finalize THEIR take on the meta and confidently execute it.
We saw this weekend their synergy and execution so the individual skill is there for sure.
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I saw navi play like they knew how to play dota one game and then look completely lost the next. A lot can happen between now and the international, but at this point I am not holding out much hope. Kinda depressing tbh.
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Russian Federation3329 Posts
On June 09 2014 14:11 Iceman331 wrote:
I saw navi play like they knew how to play dota one game and then look completely lost the next. A lot can happen between now and the international, but at this point I am not holding out much hope. Kinda depressing tbh.
Well then you've seen their ceiling, which I would say is still absurdly high... Now they just have to practice like all heck depended on it, and we'll see if 5 very good individuals can become an even stronger unit as 5. Na'Vi fighting!
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EPT
