EPTNa`Vi Discussion - Page 28
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Yacobs
United States846 Posts
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
On August 29 2014 00:11 Bisu-Fan wrote: FHDH and drusalnik literally haven't said a single good constructive thing for the past few pages... they've only been spewing XBOCT hate, and it's kinda getting annoying Like everyone who's taken the time to respond, I think given some time XBOCT will get better like his TI2 and TI3 form... We just need to send him bananas Honestly Bisu don't bother responding. I see it as our old TL days when KT fans are obsessively defending Flash for cheesing everyone to death. As I said already, they are quick to judge and don't seem to take how the team has always functioned since they formed. It is how NaVi have always played. If you want a stable team, go cheer for Alliance or that hyper greedy EG. Other wise until Hvost starts to play like someone without a brain, then kick. Stop bringing up the same shit and expect people to want to hear it. | ||
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
He looked solid against Alliance tonight at least. __ I don't really understand why this idea that XBOCT is some super-lazy individual holding the team back continues to linger without [citation provided], though. He was quite active (rarely, if ever below 70/80 hours of dota a fortnight) even last year; and if the Dendi/Puppey/Kuro interviews about TI4 are anything to go by, there were other reasons for them not scrimming as a team. That also becomes even clearer when you consider that Navi are actively practicing as a team with this new lineup. Is this just a relic of his utter lack of commitment from TI2, or have I completely missed something? As far as I can tell, since TI3 he has been as active as their other cores, yet this perception seems to colour a lot of how people treat him. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
That said, no we do not know for sure what members of the old roster were at the core of the not-working problem. We know Dendi wanted to practice constantly, so that's one down. I have not seen Kuroky say something as direct but all arrows point to it not being him who did not want to practice. That leaves three. I don't believe Funn1k would obstruct pretty much anything the team wanted to do (though lol at his ten-minute stream the other day). So that leaves Puppey and Xboct by my reckoning. The logic is not flawless (maybe all of them wanted to work super-hard but when individuals got together, through no identifiable individual fault they made working impossible) but it is reasonable to consider this the line of thinking of many fans. Truthfully we may not know for a long time until someone feels comfortable spilling the beans on how the great powerhouse of Dota2 came to this sorry state. [Edit] Also a big "lol" to talk of "how the team has always functioned." If there are conflicts within the team and how it functions who are you to say one player's way of doing things is unassailable? | ||
Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On August 29 2014 04:31 Seraphic wrote: Honestly Bisu don't bother responding. I see it as our old TL days when KT fans are obsessively defending Flash for cheesing everyone to death. I don't understand; it worked, what was the issue? (I was never even much of a Flash fan). It's more like the giant fight over whether Bisu was a bonjwa  | ||
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
On August 29 2014 09:43 Elyvilon wrote: I don't understand; it worked, what was the issue? (I was never even much of a Flash fan). It's more like the giant fight over whether Bisu was a bonjwa haha that's true Conflicts within the team were well documented, albeit some of them was hearsay. In the end when change happened, it usually came out to be the truth. Na'Vi had always played a certain way. They signified aggression, that is how they were before and what they are hopefully going back to with the new changes. Hvost is quite literally how Na'Vi plays. Just by what he does is pretty much the definition of what they do as a team in general. And please read what I said a page back. Hvost has been god awful these past months, everyone knows it. I don't believe his spot on a team is safe regardless of his position within the team. Results matter, just look at Puppey and Kuro. What I find wrong in both you and dru is constantly complaining about him as a player, ignoring all of his past deeds. True he might not come back to his old form, but do you know that for certain? What's causing the both of you to constantly judge him? Other then the damn obvious to everyone else here this section that are quite tired of the both of you. While I do respect your opinion, I don't believe it's right. Until I see for myself that Hvost has sunk to such a terrible level that he doesn't deserve to be on the team. But until that happens, please just stop and find another conversation to start. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
Hvost is quite literally how Na'Vi plays. The aggression thing might be fine but you could make a huge highlight reel of straight up terrible plays, be it being caught out for no good reason, foolishly using cooldowns that he needs seconds later, blinking along the exact trajectory of an arrow (notably), and overall just getting killed for no good reason. Not because he thought he could get a kill (I hope?!) but because he was straight up in the wrong place. Everyone is just tired of him being defended because he is notoriously aggressive as though that forgives straight-up bad plays. Both some times lead to bad deaths, that's all they have in common. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
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Bisu-Fan
Russian Federation3336 Posts
On August 29 2014 09:43 Elyvilon wrote: I don't understand; it worked, what was the issue? (I was never even much of a Flash fan). It's more like the giant fight over whether Bisu was a bonjwa Just because it worked doesn't mean we couldn't hate him each time for doing it... + Show Spoiler + but alas no more BW speak On August 29 2014 11:52 FHDH wrote: The aggression thing might be fine but you could make a huge highlight reel of straight up terrible plays, be it being caught out for no good reason, foolishly using cooldowns that he needs seconds later, blinking along the exact trajectory of an arrow (notably), and overall just getting killed for no good reason. Not because he thought he could get a kill (I hope?!) but because he was straight up in the wrong place. Everyone is just tired of him being defended because he is notoriously aggressive as though that forgives straight-up bad plays. Both some times lead to bad deaths, that's all they have in common. Yes but that's the thing. That is how Na'Vi plays, and the wonder of their playstyle is turning it around when everyone is throwing up their hands in frustration saying GG, somehow Na'Vi turns it around (horrible grammar). We can't have those plays without first having the aggressive mindset to get into those situations. And from the past couple days, they're not where they used to be, but they're getting used to going in headstrong to force opponents to react like classic Na'Vi. I like it because I think opponents have forgotten how to react to such strong Na'Vi-esque aggression  At the very least, I'd say we give them some time and see how this new team meshes... I personally think XBOCT can bounce back but that might be just me. Also... watching El Classico (Na'Vi vs Alliance) wasn't the same with the new lineups. Especially Vanskor calling [A] rats when they gg'ed... like... HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO SAY THAT! Felt bad a bit after that win. but a win is a win nonetheless | ||
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
On August 29 2014 09:42 FHDH wrote: Fair points all. The degradation of the last Navi lineup to me felt less like any one player's individual issues and more the slow-boil of many issues within the team. Those included a pathetic practice schedule as a team (aka, non-existent), very little application in bootcamp as well as a lot of other factors. Still - as you say, we may never know. I do think the fact they're scrimming with the new lineup provides more support for the theory that their lack of practice was the attitude/culture between the players, though. | ||
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drusalnik
Bulgaria133 Posts
On August 29 2014 09:55 Seraphic wrote: haha that's true Conflicts within the team were well documented, albeit some of them was hearsay. In the end when change happened, it usually came out to be the truth. Na'Vi had always played a certain way. They signified aggression, that is how they were before and what they are hopefully going back to with the new changes. Hvost is quite literally how Na'Vi plays. Just by what he does is pretty much the definition of what they do as a team in general. And please read what I said a page back. Hvost has been god awful these past months, everyone knows it. I don't believe his spot on a team is safe regardless of his position within the team. Results matter, just look at Puppey and Kuro. What I find wrong in both you and dru is constantly complaining about him as a player, ignoring all of his past deeds. True he might not come back to his old form, but do you know that for certain? What's causing the both of you to constantly judge him? Other then the damn obvious to everyone else here this section that are quite tired of the both of you. While I do respect your opinion, I don't believe it's right. Until I see for myself that Hvost has sunk to such a terrible level that he doesn't deserve to be on the team. But until that happens, please just stop and find another conversation to start. And i'm tired of people like you who defend him just because he had some impressive past. We live now we wan't Na'Vi to be good now not 2years ago. He isn't he makes stupid plays he dies for no reasons he is a magnet for mirana arrows he is just straight awful. And no i do not care what causes this he either fixes it or he has to go for them to be good again. So far there hasn't been anything pointing that he is working on fixing this problem. Some one above said this is signature play for Na'Vi well guess what the game has evolved from 2-3years ago it doesn't work now wich means you ain't the top dog anymore playing cluelessly like that so you need to adjust. And don't excuse their poor results with the current meta, there are many teams who are consistent trough all metas so far.. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
there are many teams who are consistent trough all metas so far.. How about you shut the hell up if you are just typing random bullshit? There isn't nor ever been a single team you could seriously compare with Na'Vi's consistency in DotA 2. I mean, their worst result over FOUR TI tournaments is 7-8th place and everyone was going mad over how big of an underachievement it is, for god's sake. | ||
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drusalnik
Bulgaria133 Posts
On August 30 2014 01:54 Salazarz wrote: + Show Spoiler + there are many teams who are consistent trough all metas so far.. How about you shut the hell up if you are just typing random bullshit? There isn't nor ever been a single team you could seriously compare with Na'Vi's consistency in DotA 2. I mean, their worst result over FOUR TI tournaments is 7-8th place and everyone was going mad over how big of an underachievement it is, for god's sake. How about no? Maybe the sheer will of trust you have in XBOCT made them lose vs teamcoast ? Did ya even watch the plays he made? Another sad day it seems like Na'Vi are playing 4+1 and when XBOCT actually decides to play they win some. | ||
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
Ok buddy. Let's see who. Alliance? Nope. iG? Nope. EG dissolved and reformed 3 times before finding anything worth a damn. LGD? Not really either. DK? Had to reform and still didn't sustain through the patch. TongFu/Newbee played like old NaVi and got some where; VG played like old NaVi and got some where. NaVi this year didn't play like their past and made top 8. Which all things considered is decent cuz they could have been way worse. You have 0 arguments regarding this subject. 33 posts on TL, well over HALF is you complaining and whining about a single player. Get a life and give it a fucking rest. Apparently that warning above wasn't enough. Keep going and get banned so we can move on from your dumb obsession over this matter. | ||
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drusalnik
Bulgaria133 Posts
On August 30 2014 05:22 Seraphic wrote: lol yes consistent through metas. Ok buddy. Let's see who. Alliance? Nope. iG? Nope. EG dissolved and reformed 3 times before finding anything worth a damn. LGD? Not really either. DK? Had to reform and still didn't sustain through the patch. TongFu/Newbee played like old NaVi and got some where; VG played like old NaVi and got some where. NaVi this year didn't play like their past and made top 8. Which all things considered is decent cuz they could have been way worse. You have 0 arguments regarding this subject. 33 posts on TL, well over HALF is you complaining and whining about a single player. Get a life and give it a fucking rest. So what does the quantity of my posts matter? It is quite obvious i'm right when i say that XBOCT is a weak link you don't have to like it or agree but its a fact. It has made a huge impact of the plays of both funn1k and Dendi because both of them feel less comfortable playing with him in this state even tough they still try to play their styles they cannot rely on him to be a good CARRY leaving them with more to worry and damage their game. Did you watch the game vs teamcoast ? Tell me the 2 times he got cough up in the open 1 in-front of their tier2 tower bottom and again after he RESPAWNED after they lost raxes he moved forward got cough up again and DIED, allowing coast to push forward and take the other 2 lanes of raxes... How will you explain this play?This is a rookie mistakes something an experienced veteran player like him should not do. He doesn't need to be a superstar he needs to stop been stupid that is all we ask for him hes farming is still good he gets online good when they need to fight he has the items , but it seems he lacks the PLAY hes decisions are not even questionable they are TERRIBLE.. Gimme a break i understand you like the team and the guys but facts cannot be argued around. Have a nice day i really do hope they change him sooner rather then later or even better yet he finds a way to change him self and get better. I like Na'Vi i just don't like their blind followers like you who think that ignoring the problem will make it go away.. | ||
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
Good because we as a fan clearly has a say in a team decision that is based on the teams members. And we CLEARLY all know what Dendi, Funn1k, Fng and Vanskor are thinking. Please. Do you think before you respond? I'm not defending him, if you read anything I have posted the past page or so you would know. I'm only defending him from blind fans like you who like to stir up drama for the sake of yourself. At least FHDH proved his point above, you haven't. If you don't believe the quality of your post matters that is all the argument I need against you. Hvost will always be Hvost. He comes with baggage of being brilliant at the same time incredibly dumb. Get used to it. Everyone else has. If you want to continue your hate train, please feel free. I'm waiting for that one post for us to get rid of you like Azarakon. | ||
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drusalnik
Bulgaria133 Posts
I quite enjoy the fact you can't really do anything then spill this "post counts" and now you say my post quality is bad? What are you some sort of a "post" critic? Do you really think i do not share FHDH's feelings? I'm just more of a brute i don't like to use fancy words and work around making the problem feel less of a problem for the less advanced i don't sugarcoat it. That one post won't come you can keep waiting for XBOCT to get better how ever you might wait in vain. Understand this if Na'Vi want to stay at the top NOW THAT THE GAME HAS EVOLVED. XBOCT cannot be what you described above he needs to be perfect or Na'Vi might win something but it will be 1 time wonder. You still haven't answered my question about the teamcoast game tough. | ||
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
That in itself is exactly what makes who he is. Trying to even figure out what he is doing. I honestly don't care what you are even posting at this point, I doubt anyone else here on this section is bothering. And please point out where I even said he is perfect? 1 time wonder? So all of their past deeds are just PURE luck? LOL. It seems the logic is lost on you so this will be the last time I bother responding. So let me drop something on you for you to ponder. Why do teams keep certain players? Why does iG insist on keeping Luo when he has gotten a lot of hate for throwing games? (kind of like Hvost) Because, some times, all you need is a change of players, for you to have team mates that don't ditch you in a lane, for you to do better. It's something called, Trust. This is a team game, not a 4-1 like TI2. You can argue all you like about this, but it's clear from everyone else here that they are tired of even bothering to respond to you. Like Bisu-Fan and Salazar said already, you aren't worth the time to respond to. So good luck, because this will be the last time I spend 5 minutes responding to you when you haven't answered my question either. Answering a question with another question isn't an answer. I'll say this for the very last time, Hvost will ALWAYS be Hvost. You cannot get into his head, or wonder why he does the thing he does. Some times they work, some, like those games you said, are just so confusing you cannot even think of the reasons why he did the things that he did. That in itself is who Na'Vi is. THAT is Na'Vi. That is the definition of being an fan of the team. It's a fucking roller coaster ride and until you get used to it, keep complaining cuz no one will listen. | ||
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drusalnik
Bulgaria133 Posts
Why would i complain on how Na'Vi are doing they are not even the team i cheer the most for? I like them and i like their chaotic style all i'm saying is they will be better off without current XBOCT. XBOCT is the Fernnando Torres of dota did great in past Na'Vi doesn't do good in today's Na'Vi. And no i said from now on if they win something it will be a 1time wonder because the team is new and if hes not consistent it will cost them. You keep talking about past achievements like i or you or any one else can reverse them..weak argument these tournaments are in the past look to the future it is what is important... What ever you like to respond to me or not i don't make these posts for you or any of the other rose-tinted viewers .You enjoy. | ||
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
Edit: Waiting for the vods that aren't up yet... blah I'll twitch vod it >.> | ||
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