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coolsnow is the most correct person i see posting here, especially on point 2
EG's "idea of dota" for years has been "translate winning lanes super hard into winning the game" disregarding most of the draft synergy. The TI7 EG was a really ugly example of this, where they were drafting those Mirana teams that might win lanes but required pinpoint execution from minute 0 to get even single kills. They got like 12th place that time.
OG has shown that their "idea of dota" is the most correct + definitively the best known way of thinking about the game. Every team now needs to be willing to look for the gamebreaking synergies like OG does (unless the Outlanders patch drastically changes the game direction, but with the universal Aghs we are probably looking at the future of the game right now).
If nothing else, knowing these synergies and being willing to draft them makes the draft phase much, much harder for the other team. That angle consistently let OG get either 1) insanely broken heroes or 2) heroes that aren't insanely broken but still have strong synergies. EG has nothing like this imo. Just individually very dangerous heroes like Willow, Lifestealer, TB, Centaur, Storm.
artour's mechanics can't be miles ahead anymore because everyone saw what he did + rose to his level or beyond. He keeps up in skill (multiple top 10 accounts) and knows the newest lane tricks (even comes up with new stuff) but it's no longer possible to get miles ahead in overall skill in the current pro environment. Everyone fiends replays + stalks smurf accounts to find out what the new trends are. Everyone is playing 1v1 to grind their lane mechanics (talked about several times on the TI broadcasts). And still, Topson is "the best mid" by results, but often loses the first several minutes or even loses the lane entirely. His team and draft synergy just have his back in a way that other teams don't yet attempt to replicate
EG won't win a TI or probably even a major again until they drastically alter their way of thinking about the game. I hope they understand that now. The race is going to be on to be like OG, because it no longer seems like a team just gets hot for one week and takes TI. When that was true, all concepts of how to play the game seemed basically equal if you could execute. But now the greatest possible success is demonstrably reproducible, and how it was done is basically out in the open for everyone to learn + imitate. 2019-2020 DPC will be the most interesting season ever
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On August 26 2019 02:34 Sapaio wrote:
In what way did they make AM creative, did they invent new item build or new synergy with other heroes. Being creative isn't just pick new hero but having a new plan with it.
It was a creative counter-pick. AM would've made OG not able to execute their death ball at 20 mins, if AM came online at a normal time
On August 26 2019 11:21 theqat wrote:
EG won't win a TI or probably even a major again until they drastically alter their way of thinking about the game. I hope they understand that now.
Won't happen, this is basically why Misery was let go after a month.
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I want sumail and rtz to break up
I don't think either can play to their full potential with the other as a core
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In the shuffle tread there is link to reddit, the rumour is that EG new squid is RtZ, Abbed, Ramzes, Cr1t, Fly. Not sure if there is anything in it, but remember source last year was spot on but not sure if same person.
Feel this sound to greedy even more than now.
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On August 28 2019 21:37 woojaekeem wrote:
I want sumail and rtz to break up
I don't think either can play to their full potential with the other as a core
Both of them have so much skill but i feel they would only play to their potential if they found a team that could play agressive, irreverent, exploitative dota like OG.
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On August 28 2019 21:49 Sapaio wrote:
In the shuffle tread there is link to reddit, the rumour is that EG new squid is RtZ, Abbed, Ramzes, Cr1t, Fly. Not sure if there is anything in it, but remember source last year was spot on but not sure if same person.
Feel this sound to greedy even more than now.
I feel like Abed is pretty unproven on the big stage too, but not sure if this is because of him or non tier-1 teammates
However, it does give them a Meepo player.
And Ramzes offlane???
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Feel like Ramzes is better one than RtZ, but played 3 when Pasha was on leave, also heard he should be practising 3.
Also Ramzes can play BM so this line up has gotcha last pick potential.
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I think OG proved that team synergy is more important than raw talent. Not saying they don't have tier 1 players but they are better together (for example, without Ana, OG was in deep shit). Abed may not be as good as Sumail, but he may work better with RTZ.
One thing for sure is that this lineup will have a lot of cheese picks: RTZ Arc Warden, Ramzes Brood, Abed Meepo.
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United States15275 Posts
The problem with 3 position Ramzes is he plays a very select pool of STR offlaners that doesn't include most of the meta picks. He has traditionally relied on Brew, Doom, BM, and Bristle alongside certain flex heroes such as Necro and LD for lane dominance. These are greedy heroes (he plays right-click Brew) that can face-tank spells and scale with offensive items. Ramzes, to my knowledge, doesn't have much experience on Centaur, SK, Tide, Abaddon, Enchantress or any other offlaners that are highly contested in the current meta. Functionally he would be a facsimile of 33 with greater individual skill, with the additional advantage of conferring a bevy of "auto win" last picks (e.g. Brood, Ursa).
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If these rumours are true, I believe Ramzes can transition into the role of an offlaner, although his hero pool on this position may not be that big at the moment, but I am pretty sure he can learn the "traditional ones" with some time given. Let´s take GH as an example(although he is a Pos4-player): After TI7 Kuro approached him to learn playing Earth Spirit. In the forthcoming weeks/months, he played this hero in pubs till it became one of his signature ones.
I mean s4 and Fata transitioned into that role as well and I think Ramzes has more talent than any of those two. It will depend if he can adjust his playstyle from an ultraagressive carry who is often give a near free lane to a role where his main task will be not to die during the laning phase and try to delay the farm of the opposing carry as much as possible and/or create space for Arteezy.
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United States15275 Posts
s4 plays almost identically to how he used to on Alliance, which was a noticeable problem throughout his time on EG. Ditto for Fata. The old space-creating midlaners were able to transition to offlane due to the gradual easing off of pressure in that role; they essentially swapped lanes without changing their basic playstyles.
I think that's why (if the rumors are true) he wants to switch positions. Farming the safelane right now is an unforgiving role with little thanks. More often that not, it's the offlane dual combos that get sufficient freedom to harass, trade, and move in for kills. I severely doubt he can change his entire philosophy to accommodate that; even Pasha couldn't do it when he changed from offlane from carry.
to a role where his main task will be not to die during the laning phase and try to delay the farm of the opposing carry as much as possible and/or create space for Arteezy.
Which is why I've argued in other places that it would be better for Ramzes to replace Arteezy than s4. He has the hero pool that can complement and enable Sumail without sacrificing his natural inclinations. Ramzes can play super-late carries as well as hyper-aggressive early ones, and he prefers to be active in the midgame.
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I agree that Ramzes, Sumail, s4, cr1t and Fly sound way scarier than RTZ, Sumail, Ramses, cr1t, Fly. The latter is gonna be very limited in what they can do due to their greed.
But hey I never really was on the RTZ train anyways, imo he plays too much away from his team. Tbf he has shown some signs of improvements in the last season, but I'd still rather put my eggs in the Nisha, Ramzez or Miracle basket despite the latter looking shaky this season.
Also word on the street from three different sources is that Sumail is out.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Three different sources? You mean the one guy on reddit who said he was out who got a few things last year wrong. Posted Secret roster then few hours before it was released changed it saying they "made a last minute change" xD
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rtz is not a TI or even Major winning carry material, but i don't like eg anyways so hope he stays put
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On September 05 2019 04:24 Pandemona wrote:
Three different sources? You mean the one guy on reddit who said he was out who got a few things last year wrong. Posted Secret roster then few hours before it was released changed it saying they "made a last minute change" xD
Whoops you're right, it's three different mentions by one single guy. <.<
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Would be nice to finally get some official statments, I want to know what happens to my boi RTZ.
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Any inhouse rumors about the team ? Reading from reddit comments it sounds like it is a full scatter but i can't trust it
On September 05 2019 04:32 nVme wrote:
rtz is not a TI or even Major winning carry material, but i don't like eg anyways so hope he stays put
Anything can work man. Same has been said about ceeeeeeb like a few years ago. But he still won two TI's and actually showed his worth
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On September 06 2019 22:27 goody153 wrote:
Any inhouse rumors about the team ? Reading from reddit comments it sounds like it is a full scatter but i can't trust it
Nothing new. Sumail, CCNC, SVG are playing in the same stack a lot with Universe/MSS/Monkeys/Ritsu filling the remaining spots generally
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EPT
end of an era
