Evil Geniuses Discussion - Page 206

On August 25 2018 20:21 Atoissen wrote:

Wow,congrats man

On August 25 2018 20:48 PoulsenB wrote:

gratz on the kids man :D

EG has been so good this TI less than 5 hours to the match with LGD!

On August 26 2018 12:25 lolnoty wrote:
lots of hope for EG going forward, knocking out VP and liquid for 3rd is a really sick showing

On August 26 2018 12:29 dragonswarrior wrote:
While I'm sad EG didn't win the whole thing they're series against Liquid was crazy good and 3rd place isn't too bad. Wonderful TI all around.

On August 27 2018 08:24 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah very bitter pill to swallow when OG won it all, i hope the lads are motivated to beat them hard next season and take TI9 in Shanghai they have all thep potential if they can stay together, i mean beating Liquid and VP "comfortably" the way they did in the lower bracket seemed they were destined to snatch the Aegis but fell a bit short against LGD who 100% played better vs EG than they showed vs OG. Guess styles make fights though.

On August 28 2018 05:47 theqat wrote:


LGD essentially played the best version of the meta that everyone except OG was playing. That's based on winning at least 2/3 lanes and then playing very fast around the map to maintain that advantage and choke out the other team. It's what every top team thought the meta was . . . except OG

OG showed that the superior meta of 7.19 is picking heroes that are maybe slightly weaker or even in lane, but much better at teamfighting than the enemy heroes. They obviously did not try to lose lanes but they also did not prioritize winning them the same way as LGD/Liquid/EG/VP. OG would happily lose 2/3 lanes and proceed to farming in the tiny amount of space left on the map until they had the minimum items they needed. Then they would start aggressively forcing teamfights over and over. They tried to get these fights to happen near shrines as much as possible so they can buy back and extend the fight. (They also picked a lot of global heroes like Ember, Zeus, Spec, NP to make it easy to extend fights.) They would make even or poor trades in hero terms, but in gold terms, because they are behind from their poor early game, these trades now become OG-favored trades

After a few of these trades, OG have even more major items, the gold differential is evened out, and the opposing team has no hope because OG are the ones who picked good teamfight. The game must now be played on the terms of the team with the better teamfight.

Personally I think this is quite bad for Dota. If you look back at EG v OG game 3, OG's "epic" play is literally feeding their Spec and Wisp up a blind hill. Both of them die, then they buy back, and suddenly a 2rax/20k gold lead is meaningless. That's a factor of Spectre being OP in 7.19 in part, as well as some misplays by EG and some good decisions/plays by OG, but you can't ignore the increased gold rewards from being behind and buyback being instantaneous 100% health and mana (and unlimited other than cooldown)

None of this is to take anything away from OG. Obviously they still had to figure out the meta and outplay their opponents to win TI. They deserve every last thing that's coming to them. I just hope the devs see that some things about this meta are pretty gross and deserve to be changed

(If there's a patch where winning your lanes is truly the strongest strat, we're gonna see good EG results. It seems like winning lanes is their "theory of dota" or "way of thinking about dota" like you always hear Bulba + co. talk about, and they are sticking to it hard. Think back to TI7: EG wanted to pick a bunch of strong laners whose roles were unpredictable. It was bad then, it was good at TI8 but not the best. They're still playing basically the same theory.)

e: goddamn sorry this is so long

On August 29 2018 02:19 VvvV1251 wrote:
There is a reason why Spectre is known as one of the best late/ultra late game carry, and the reason is simple, it's buyback haunt into the fight, i have been following dota since forever, and whenever spectre was part of the meta, games like EG vs OG happened a lot of time, this is the strength of the hero, since dispersion make hard to kill it without taking damage, (on that game Ana' spectre had around 4k hp, if you kill it that's around 1k that you are going to take).

Saying that spectre is OP is wrong, since it is garbage in the early/mid game, as well as being an easy kill, it was just Ana who played out of his mind on that game, he avoided so many gang and managed to farm decently, If RTZ had more farm, it's would have been a different story, but he chocked and couldn't bring his best. while Ana played a close to perfect game. that what's decided the game.