• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:56
CEST 00:56
KST 07:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror2[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup8StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)67Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2316
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups? October World Ranking: herO stays #1, ByuN returns
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ]
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Fantasy returning? Sagi.gg Launcher Released BW General Discussion PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague 20-year-old Valorant player starting StarCraft
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 2v2v2v2 Tournament [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8989 users

Evil Geniuses Discussion - Page 137

Forum Index > Dota 2 Player & Team Discussion
Post a Reply
Prev 1 135 136 137 138 139 235 Next
Gaial
Profile Joined May 2014
United States313 Posts
March 01 2017 13:23 GMT
#2721
Nice catch. Glad to see EG in action before DAC, while also giving them practice.
traumatism
Profile Joined November 2010
Singapore3728 Posts
March 03 2017 11:38 GMT
#2722
Glad to FINALLY get some EG dotes
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
March 03 2017 18:05 GMT
#2723
On March 03 2017 20:38 traumatism wrote:
Glad to FINALLY get some EG dotes

True that, hoping for some good games!
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
Gaial
Profile Joined May 2014
United States313 Posts
March 25 2017 16:31 GMT
#2724
So EG got the harder group.

Definitely better for EG to play the harder teams early on. I still think they can top 2 the group with Liquid.
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4243 Posts
March 26 2017 09:58 GMT
#2725
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
TL+ Member
Bodhi
Profile Joined August 2010
United States180 Posts
March 27 2017 23:35 GMT
#2726
It's all over. May as well not even reveal strats for these next games because EG is headed straight for the losers bracket.
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
March 28 2017 06:23 GMT
#2727
Anyone else finds rtz to be very ordinary in the carry role? Always felt his talent was best in a carry mid role. EG2014 and Secret 2015 were good examples of it. Unfortunate that the mid role has evolved, and rtz isn't that good on some of the tempo heroes like invoker/qop.

Think there are many players better than him in the carry role. The real star now is suma1l
HaXxorIzed
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
Australia8434 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-28 15:02:03
March 28 2017 06:40 GMT
#2728
I haven't had a chance to watch as much of the team in the crit days, but I thought in the ppd era it was less the role of carry/mid that rtz struggled with and more the fact the team was no longer built entirely around him. When he is always prioritised the hardest farming role and the second core player has a mentality and skill set to let rtz play whatever whenever wherever he performs the best.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/HaXxorIzed
MintberryCrunchs
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany462 Posts
March 29 2017 06:38 GMT
#2729
EG is struggling so much with their laning and early game.
They often times fall behind during that stage and have to make this big midgame-comebacks based arround their incredible skilled players and teamfight excecution
This looks like a very exhausting playstyle ... and to be honest, not stable enough as a playstyle to rely on it all the time.
I hope they can fix this in some way, because i think that if they can fix this, with their mid/lategame excecution, they could establish themself at the very top ...
BreakupBoy
Profile Joined September 2016
Germany171 Posts
March 29 2017 12:00 GMT
#2730
On March 28 2017 15:23 DucK- wrote:
Anyone else finds rtz to be very ordinary in the carry role? Always felt his talent was best in a carry mid role. EG2014 and Secret 2015 were good examples of it. Unfortunate that the mid role has evolved, and rtz isn't that good on some of the tempo heroes like invoker/qop.

Think there are many players better than him in the carry role. The real star now is suma1l

I don't know if I'd go as far as saying he's ordinary but I agree somewhat that he hasn't impressed me individually but so far the only carry player that did so during DAC has been BurNIng. (I haven't seen a lot of group A so I can't really talk about them) I think with EG it's mainly a play style thing, SumaiL is often times the true carry of the team and the one who gets the opportunity to shine. I also feel that the best kind of carries to pair with a players like SumaiL/Miracle- are the n0tail/Fear types, highly flexible, space creating players that are imo often times the unsung heroes. In addition I also feel like players like Arteezy and Matumbaman are at their best when paired with players like s4/FATA-, cuz I feel like Liquid suffers from a similar problem like EG, when it comes to the dynamic of their two core players but I might be wrong.
(~ ̄▽ ̄)~
hunter_x
Profile Joined June 2014
Germany2762 Posts
March 29 2017 14:19 GMT
#2731
On March 29 2017 21:00 BreakupBoy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2017 15:23 DucK- wrote:
Anyone else finds rtz to be very ordinary in the carry role? Always felt his talent was best in a carry mid role. EG2014 and Secret 2015 were good examples of it. Unfortunate that the mid role has evolved, and rtz isn't that good on some of the tempo heroes like invoker/qop.

Think there are many players better than him in the carry role. The real star now is suma1l

I don't know if I'd go as far as saying he's ordinary but I agree somewhat that he hasn't impressed me individually but so far the only carry player that did so during DAC has been BurNIng. (I haven't seen a lot of group A so I can't really talk about them) I think with EG it's mainly a play style thing, SumaiL is often times the true carry of the team and the one who gets the opportunity to shine. I also feel that the best kind of carries to pair with a players like SumaiL/Miracle- are the n0tail/Fear types, highly flexible, space creating players that are imo often times the unsung heroes. In addition I also feel like players like Arteezy and Matumbaman are at their best when paired with players like s4/FATA-, cuz I feel like Liquid suffers from a similar problem like EG, when it comes to the dynamic of their two core players but I might be wrong.

I dont know man. I think liquid and eg have both shown they have great synergy, with exactly the players they have. You dont win tournaments otherwise. Its more like draft and little ingame problems. Both teams are capable to have a very deep lower bracket run.
BreakupBoy
Profile Joined September 2016
Germany171 Posts
March 29 2017 17:20 GMT
#2732
On March 29 2017 23:19 hunter_x wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2017 21:00 BreakupBoy wrote:
On March 28 2017 15:23 DucK- wrote:
Anyone else finds rtz to be very ordinary in the carry role? Always felt his talent was best in a carry mid role. EG2014 and Secret 2015 were good examples of it. Unfortunate that the mid role has evolved, and rtz isn't that good on some of the tempo heroes like invoker/qop.

Think there are many players better than him in the carry role. The real star now is suma1l

I don't know if I'd go as far as saying he's ordinary but I agree somewhat that he hasn't impressed me individually but so far the only carry player that did so during DAC has been BurNIng. (I haven't seen a lot of group A so I can't really talk about them) I think with EG it's mainly a play style thing, SumaiL is often times the true carry of the team and the one who gets the opportunity to shine. I also feel that the best kind of carries to pair with a players like SumaiL/Miracle- are the n0tail/Fear types, highly flexible, space creating players that are imo often times the unsung heroes. In addition I also feel like players like Arteezy and Matumbaman are at their best when paired with players like s4/FATA-, cuz I feel like Liquid suffers from a similar problem like EG, when it comes to the dynamic of their two core players but I might be wrong.

I dont know man. I think liquid and eg have both shown they have great synergy, with exactly the players they have. You dont win tournaments otherwise. Its more like draft and little ingame problems. Both teams are capable to have a very deep lower bracket run.

Oh for sure, I honestly believe it's more of a luxury problem for both teams, but even ppd said he never fully figured out how to use Arteezy and SumaiL to their fullest potential together, apparently he came close to the solution at the shanghai major but Arteezy left a few weeks later.
(~ ̄▽ ̄)~
saocyn
Profile Joined July 2011
United States937 Posts
April 01 2017 02:02 GMT
#2733
Pretty brutal watching EG lose the way they did and to BOTH IG teams. Needless to say i was a huge IG fan back in the days of ferarri Ti-3 era, but to see how they got dismantled to really basic tactics like a shadow-blade lina catching out sumail 24/7 was disheartening to watch. it's like really? anyone could have done that.
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-02 14:17:02
April 02 2017 14:16 GMT
#2734
Too bad eg is playing so early, hope they win so I can catch the last series :p
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44306 Posts
April 02 2017 16:36 GMT
#2735
this is a quote
saocyn
Profile Joined July 2011
United States937 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-03 07:21:23
April 03 2017 07:17 GMT
#2736
Don't know who posted it, but i've felt the same way about arteezy in the 1 role. not only the one role, his 2 role is also sub-par as well now. It's not to say the guy wasn't a pioneer 1-2 years back, heck at one point in time we could say he was the best mid player but now regardless of what role i see him play, he's no where near the star power he was once known for. you don't see him outplay 2-3 people and then get a 3 for 1 kill, you don't see those plays from any of his heroes anymore either regardless of how much farm or an advantage he has. it's like he's been for the lack of a better word, neutered. he no longer plays aggressively anymore and it seems like this safe style of play he's adopted has killed any sort of old arteezy we've known to love.

I no longer anticipate him to do amazing things, it's more like every time i watch him, i just HOPE he doesn't feed to something stupid. the dynamic has changed where every game we expected something that would blow our minds, now it's expecting him not to feed. he's a shadow of his old self quite sadly and i actually don't mind booting him on eg for fear to come back in the 1 role. he's no where close to as dominant as fear as on the 1 role. at least fear had a level of consistency, arteezy has no where near any level of consistency anymore sadly. and this is not a hate thread or to bash him. its just sad not seeing the star power he was once known as.

arteezy is more of a curse now for any team that brings him on board than he is a benefit. team secret had him, they lost. he's back on EG? they lose.

As far as sumail goes, sumail still has it in him but just like arteezy, we don't really get to see the kid let loose. maybe dota has gotten to a point where most innovations have been kind of fleshed out and no ones really a pioneer anymore. any attempts at anything risky gets punished hard and teams aren't willing to go down that route anymore. its all a bunch of safe plays and no one really stands out anymore. sumail had the most gold with his invoker and the guy does NOTHING with it. nothing. back then when sumail even remotely had any type of advantage he would reverse the the tides of the game in ways we never thought possible. but now even he can only do so much to change the tides of the game. universe on the other hand still looks like a god of dota, and even his plays can only get them so far sadly.
etherealfall
Profile Joined December 2011
Australia476 Posts
April 03 2017 07:25 GMT
#2737
On April 03 2017 16:17 saocyn wrote:
Don't know who posted it, but i've felt the same way about arteezy in the 1 role. not only the one role, his 2 role is also sub-par as well now. It's not to say the guy wasn't a pioneer 1-2 years back, heck at one point in time we could say he was the best mid player but now regardless of what role i see him play, he's no where near the star power he was once known for. you don't see him outplay 2-3 people and then get a 3 for 1 kill, you don't see those plays from any of his heroes anymore either regardless of how much farm or an advantage he has. it's like he's been for the lack of a better word, neutered. he no longer plays aggressively anymore and it seems like this safe style of play he's adopted has killed any sort of old arteezy we've known to love.

I no longer anticipate him to do amazing things, it's more like every time i watch him, i just HOPE he doesn't feed to something stupid. the dynamic has changed where every game we expected something that would blow our minds, now it's expecting him not to feed. he's a shadow of his old self quite sadly and i actually don't mind booting him on eg for fear to come back in the 1 role. he's no where close to as dominant as fear as on the 1 role. at least fear had a level of consistency, arteezy has no where near any level of consistency anymore sadly. and this is not a hate thread or to bash him. its just sad not seeing the star power he was once known as.

arteezy is more of a curse now for any team that brings him on board than he is a benefit. team secret had him, they lost. he's back on EG? they lose.

As far as sumail goes, sumail still has it in him but just like arteezy, we don't really get to see the kid let loose. maybe dota has gotten to a point where most innovations have been kind of fleshed out and no ones really a pioneer anymore. any attempts at anything risky gets punished hard and teams aren't willing to go down that route anymore. its all a bunch of safe plays and no one really stands out anymore. sumail had the most gold with his invoker and the guy does NOTHING with it. nothing. back then when sumail even remotely had any type of advantage he would reverse the the tides of the game in ways we never thought possible. but now even he can only do so much to change the tides of the game. universe on the other hand still looks like a god of dota, and even his plays can only get them so far sadly.


I agree.

It's like he's so bothered by the most right or optimal way that he's playing as a numbers game.

There is something about Fear that I just haven't been able to see from RTZ. Granted they have very different styles but for sure EG was much more dominant with Fear and PPD.

Similarly though - there was something super all in about the IO pick.
Caladbolg
Profile Joined March 2011
2855 Posts
April 03 2017 08:37 GMT
#2738
You guys are just sad right now. But both Sumail and Arteezy are skilled enough to carry the team.

Right now I think it's Crit's drafting and their teamfight that's the problem. Their teamfight skill used to be able to carry them through subpar drafts, but not anymore. Other teams are just as good or even better than them at teamfighting. EG's strength in this current lineup is still the 1-2 punch of Arteezy and Sumail, and they need to make sure that both get a decent start, but it seems one of them is getting sacced all the time (often Artour). But they can recover.
"I don't like the word prodigy at all. To me prodigy sounds like a person who was 'gifted' all these things rather than a person who earned all these talents by hard training... I must train harder to reach my goal." - Flash
saocyn
Profile Joined July 2011
United States937 Posts
April 04 2017 01:33 GMT
#2739
On April 03 2017 17:37 Caladbolg wrote:
You guys are just sad right now. But both Sumail and Arteezy are skilled enough to carry the team.

Right now I think it's Crit's drafting and their teamfight that's the problem. Their teamfight skill used to be able to carry them through subpar drafts, but not anymore. Other teams are just as good or even better than them at teamfighting. EG's strength in this current lineup is still the 1-2 punch of Arteezy and Sumail, and they need to make sure that both get a decent start, but it seems one of them is getting sacced all the time (often Artour). But they can recover.


fair assessment and also a point i forgot to address that may have factored into my rant. But yeah crit's drafting definitely has something to do with it. But on the other hand...you could say that crit's drafting has been what allowed them to win vs kind of when ppd was going downhill prior to quitting. his drafting more or less saved the team or did it's job more or less.
and i don't think anyone here denies the fact they have the ability to win the game that's not the point we know damn well what they're both capable of. it's more like they've fallen off...and anyone who was a fan of eg knew it's not about giving them a good start per-say, it's the fact they can edge out an advantage through pure skill in the laning phase. and they're not doing it in 1 on 1 scenarios when they should be. perhaps their confidence was shaken when they both lost the 1v1 tournament, i'm a mid player as well, and i know how much that can shake your confidence in your own ability.

in a perfect scenario yes they both would have advantages but that's not how dota goes...in a perfect scenario your mid wins, your carry wins, and your offlane wins. in most of eg scenarios it's like sumail gets an advantage arteezy does ok or gets sacked, and universe is just universe and somehow eeks a win in his lane and finds insane openings.
Atreides
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2393 Posts
April 04 2017 04:47 GMT
#2740
You guys are insane. "Ppd going downhill prior to quitting" you mean his last tournament where he got third at TI? "This team doesn't work" where they've won half the tourneys they've been in? "Rtz never has outplays or outskills" were you even watching the tourney you are presumably talking about? (DAC)

I mean obviously this conversation not worth responding to but it's laughable. (And I'm as disappointed as anyone by their DAC performance and Ofc have my own opinions, but damn try a bit harder plz.)
Prev 1 135 136 137 138 139 235 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL Open Qualifier
04:00
Jungsu & Hasu #2
ZZZero.O155
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 1074
ZZZero.O 155
Bale 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 7
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm122
League of Legends
Doublelift5296
JimRising 693
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby6663
Other Games
summit1g8793
FrodaN3058
KnowMe204
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1203
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream43
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie955
• Shiphtur184
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5m
CranKy Ducklings10
Afreeca Starleague
11h 5m
Rush vs Light
WardiTV Weekly
12h 5m
Monday Night Weeklies
17h 5m
Replay Cast
1d
Afreeca Starleague
1d 11h
Soma vs Soulkey
INu's Battles
1d 12h
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
INu's Battles
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Patches Events
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Copium Cup
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.