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On September 26 2014 05:42 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 05:34 Jotoco wrote:On September 26 2014 02:51 Comeh wrote:On September 26 2014 02:44 Acritter wrote:On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. i dont think u understand how good it is to have +hp +armor +block on the same item. (ive always wanted an hp+armor item) only 1 hero will probably be getting it I mean, the damage block mechanic could also turn out to be unbelievably limited and won't negate any damage. Okay, I'll bite, How? I've read almost all this thread and I didn't see anyone mention if Crimsom Guard will block DP, Razor and SS ultis. If so, it can negate these heroes almost entirely. Shadow Shaman wards because pure farm, DP ulti will barely tickle and Razor ulti will be a glorified minus armor spell. And someone said it would be good item in Axe (agree), Bristtle Back (agree again) and Crystal Maiden, and surprisingly it may be useful for her. She doesn't need much mana, she needs to survive the teamfights to contribute, and with her new ulti it may be even better than BKB, because BKB doesn't give much health and armor and she will be easily right clicked through it, and each CC directed towards your CM and not your carry is good for your teamfight. If something is mitigated by stout shield, it'll be mitigated by CG. Exorcism isn't.
A longe time ago Vanguard blocked exorcism, that's why I though it could block it. And with the damage type changes, I don't know, has anyone tested it already? I'm at work and 99% of sites are blocked, including the dota2 site.
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On September 26 2014 05:41 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 05:34 Jotoco wrote:On September 26 2014 02:51 Comeh wrote:On September 26 2014 02:44 Acritter wrote:On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. i dont think u understand how good it is to have +hp +armor +block on the same item. (ive always wanted an hp+armor item) only 1 hero will probably be getting it I mean, the damage block mechanic could also turn out to be unbelievably limited and won't negate any damage. Okay, I'll bite, How? I've read almost all this thread and I didn't see anyone mention if Crimsom Guard will block DP, Razor and SS ultis. If so, it can negate these heroes almost entirely. Shadow Shaman wards because pure farm, DP ulti will barely tickle and Razor ulti will be a glorified minus armor spell. And someone said it would be good item in Axe (agree), Bristtle Back (agree again) and Crystal Maiden, and surprisingly it may be useful for her. She doesn't need much mana, she needs to survive the teamfights to contribute, and with her new ulti it may be even better than BKB, because BKB doesn't give much health and armor and she will be easily right clicked through it, and each CC directed towards your CM and not your carry is good for your teamfight. There is no reason why the damage block would work diferently from the way all damage blocks work currently.
Can you clarify that? The thing blocks 50 damage before armor is applies off all physical damage for 9 seconds. It does stop stuff like the DP ult and Razor's ult. Same with WD for that matter.
It doesn't work like a stout sheild either, the active ability block 50 of damage 100% of the time.
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On September 26 2014 05:45 Jotoco wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 05:42 Daralii wrote:On September 26 2014 05:34 Jotoco wrote:On September 26 2014 02:51 Comeh wrote:On September 26 2014 02:44 Acritter wrote:On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. i dont think u understand how good it is to have +hp +armor +block on the same item. (ive always wanted an hp+armor item) only 1 hero will probably be getting it I mean, the damage block mechanic could also turn out to be unbelievably limited and won't negate any damage. Okay, I'll bite, How? I've read almost all this thread and I didn't see anyone mention if Crimsom Guard will block DP, Razor and SS ultis. If so, it can negate these heroes almost entirely. Shadow Shaman wards because pure farm, DP ulti will barely tickle and Razor ulti will be a glorified minus armor spell. And someone said it would be good item in Axe (agree), Bristtle Back (agree again) and Crystal Maiden, and surprisingly it may be useful for her. She doesn't need much mana, she needs to survive the teamfights to contribute, and with her new ulti it may be even better than BKB, because BKB doesn't give much health and armor and she will be easily right clicked through it, and each CC directed towards your CM and not your carry is good for your teamfight. If something is mitigated by stout shield, it'll be mitigated by CG. Exorcism isn't. A longe time ago Vanguard blocked exorcism, that's why I though it could block it. And with the damage type changes, I don't know, has anyone tested it already? I'm at work and 99% of sites are blocked, including the dota2 site.
Exorcism and Quill Spray are the physical abilities that aren't blocked.
There is also the fact that it will be better against other abilities that do physical damage after this patch.
On September 26 2014 05:45 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 05:41 SKC wrote:On September 26 2014 05:34 Jotoco wrote:On September 26 2014 02:51 Comeh wrote:On September 26 2014 02:44 Acritter wrote:On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. i dont think u understand how good it is to have +hp +armor +block on the same item. (ive always wanted an hp+armor item) only 1 hero will probably be getting it I mean, the damage block mechanic could also turn out to be unbelievably limited and won't negate any damage. Okay, I'll bite, How? I've read almost all this thread and I didn't see anyone mention if Crimsom Guard will block DP, Razor and SS ultis. If so, it can negate these heroes almost entirely. Shadow Shaman wards because pure farm, DP ulti will barely tickle and Razor ulti will be a glorified minus armor spell. And someone said it would be good item in Axe (agree), Bristtle Back (agree again) and Crystal Maiden, and surprisingly it may be useful for her. She doesn't need much mana, she needs to survive the teamfights to contribute, and with her new ulti it may be even better than BKB, because BKB doesn't give much health and armor and she will be easily right clicked through it, and each CC directed towards your CM and not your carry is good for your teamfight. There is no reason why the damage block would work diferently from the way all damage blocks work currently. Can you clarify that? The thing blocks 50 damage before armor is applies off all physical damage for 9 seconds. It does stop stuff like the DP ult and Razor's ult. Same with WD for that matter.
It absolutelly should not block Exorcism, if it does I would guess it is a bug.
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I wonder why DP only got a nerf on Exorcism CD, and not a giant one at that. It's not like she really falls off.
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Tebellong44238 Posts
Never trust Plansix when he's talking mechanics. He makes incredibly wild assumptions.
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On September 26 2014 05:45 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 05:41 SKC wrote:On September 26 2014 05:34 Jotoco wrote:On September 26 2014 02:51 Comeh wrote:On September 26 2014 02:44 Acritter wrote:On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. i dont think u understand how good it is to have +hp +armor +block on the same item. (ive always wanted an hp+armor item) only 1 hero will probably be getting it I mean, the damage block mechanic could also turn out to be unbelievably limited and won't negate any damage. Okay, I'll bite, How? I've read almost all this thread and I didn't see anyone mention if Crimsom Guard will block DP, Razor and SS ultis. If so, it can negate these heroes almost entirely. Shadow Shaman wards because pure farm, DP ulti will barely tickle and Razor ulti will be a glorified minus armor spell. And someone said it would be good item in Axe (agree), Bristtle Back (agree again) and Crystal Maiden, and surprisingly it may be useful for her. She doesn't need much mana, she needs to survive the teamfights to contribute, and with her new ulti it may be even better than BKB, because BKB doesn't give much health and armor and she will be easily right clicked through it, and each CC directed towards your CM and not your carry is good for your teamfight. There is no reason why the damage block would work diferently from the way all damage blocks work currently. Can you clarify that? The thing blocks 50 damage before armor is applies off all physical damage for 9 seconds. It does stop stuff like the DP ult and Razor's ult. Same with WD for that matter. It doesn't work like a stout sheild either, the active ability block 50 of damage 100% of the time.
Oh wow that's a huge nerf to to Witch Doctor if it blocks. And a team fight into wards is rough but not bad enough to deserve that 
At least ganks by Rhasta will be unaffected ;(((((
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On September 26 2014 05:47 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 05:45 Jotoco wrote:On September 26 2014 05:42 Daralii wrote:On September 26 2014 05:34 Jotoco wrote:On September 26 2014 02:51 Comeh wrote:On September 26 2014 02:44 Acritter wrote:On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. i dont think u understand how good it is to have +hp +armor +block on the same item. (ive always wanted an hp+armor item) only 1 hero will probably be getting it I mean, the damage block mechanic could also turn out to be unbelievably limited and won't negate any damage. Okay, I'll bite, How? I've read almost all this thread and I didn't see anyone mention if Crimsom Guard will block DP, Razor and SS ultis. If so, it can negate these heroes almost entirely. Shadow Shaman wards because pure farm, DP ulti will barely tickle and Razor ulti will be a glorified minus armor spell. And someone said it would be good item in Axe (agree), Bristtle Back (agree again) and Crystal Maiden, and surprisingly it may be useful for her. She doesn't need much mana, she needs to survive the teamfights to contribute, and with her new ulti it may be even better than BKB, because BKB doesn't give much health and armor and she will be easily right clicked through it, and each CC directed towards your CM and not your carry is good for your teamfight. If something is mitigated by stout shield, it'll be mitigated by CG. Exorcism isn't. A longe time ago Vanguard blocked exorcism, that's why I though it could block it. And with the damage type changes, I don't know, has anyone tested it already? I'm at work and 99% of sites are blocked, including the dota2 site. Exorcism and Quill Spray are the physical abilities that aren't blocked. There is also the fact that it will be better against other abilities that do physical damage after this patch. Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 05:45 Plansix wrote:On September 26 2014 05:41 SKC wrote:On September 26 2014 05:34 Jotoco wrote:On September 26 2014 02:51 Comeh wrote:On September 26 2014 02:44 Acritter wrote:On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. i dont think u understand how good it is to have +hp +armor +block on the same item. (ive always wanted an hp+armor item) only 1 hero will probably be getting it I mean, the damage block mechanic could also turn out to be unbelievably limited and won't negate any damage. Okay, I'll bite, How? I've read almost all this thread and I didn't see anyone mention if Crimsom Guard will block DP, Razor and SS ultis. If so, it can negate these heroes almost entirely. Shadow Shaman wards because pure farm, DP ulti will barely tickle and Razor ulti will be a glorified minus armor spell. And someone said it would be good item in Axe (agree), Bristtle Back (agree again) and Crystal Maiden, and surprisingly it may be useful for her. She doesn't need much mana, she needs to survive the teamfights to contribute, and with her new ulti it may be even better than BKB, because BKB doesn't give much health and armor and she will be easily right clicked through it, and each CC directed towards your CM and not your carry is good for your teamfight. There is no reason why the damage block would work diferently from the way all damage blocks work currently. Can you clarify that? The thing blocks 50 damage before armor is applies off all physical damage for 9 seconds. It does stop stuff like the DP ult and Razor's ult. Same with WD for that matter. It absolutelly should not block Exorcism, if it does I would guess it is a bug.
You are correct, I just looked it up on dota Wiki and it does not block any of those abilities.
On September 26 2014 05:50 FHDH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 05:45 Plansix wrote:On September 26 2014 05:41 SKC wrote:On September 26 2014 05:34 Jotoco wrote:On September 26 2014 02:51 Comeh wrote:On September 26 2014 02:44 Acritter wrote:On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. i dont think u understand how good it is to have +hp +armor +block on the same item. (ive always wanted an hp+armor item) only 1 hero will probably be getting it I mean, the damage block mechanic could also turn out to be unbelievably limited and won't negate any damage. Okay, I'll bite, How? I've read almost all this thread and I didn't see anyone mention if Crimsom Guard will block DP, Razor and SS ultis. If so, it can negate these heroes almost entirely. Shadow Shaman wards because pure farm, DP ulti will barely tickle and Razor ulti will be a glorified minus armor spell. And someone said it would be good item in Axe (agree), Bristtle Back (agree again) and Crystal Maiden, and surprisingly it may be useful for her. She doesn't need much mana, she needs to survive the teamfights to contribute, and with her new ulti it may be even better than BKB, because BKB doesn't give much health and armor and she will be easily right clicked through it, and each CC directed towards your CM and not your carry is good for your teamfight. There is no reason why the damage block would work diferently from the way all damage blocks work currently. Can you clarify that? The thing blocks 50 damage before armor is applies off all physical damage for 9 seconds. It does stop stuff like the DP ult and Razor's ult. Same with WD for that matter. It doesn't work like a stout sheild either, the active ability block 50 of damage 100% of the time. Oh wow that's a huge nerf to to Witch Doctor if it blocks. And a team fight into wards is rough but not bad enough to deserve that At least ganks by Rhasta will be unaffected ;(((((
It doesn't, that was just wishful thinking. WD is still the boss of wiping out teams with a well placed Aghs ult.
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On September 26 2014 05:48 Sn0_Man wrote:
Never trust Plansix when he's talking mechanics. He makes incredibly wild assumptions.
Still, someone who has access to the test client or unrestricted google/youtube should research it and post an answer.
Since, like I said, at a point in the past Vanguard DID block exorcism, maybe it was changed back?
If Vanguard/Crimson Guard blocks ALL physical damage, including spells, it will be a VERY good item for any front line tank that doesn't rely on items to do damage (BB, Axe, Centaur-kinda, Timbersaw-kinda, DP-kinda, Razor-kinda, etc etc etc)
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On September 26 2014 05:54 Jotoco wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 05:48 Sn0_Man wrote:
Never trust Plansix when he's talking mechanics. He makes incredibly wild assumptions. Still, someone who has access to the test client or unrestricted google/youtube should research it and post an answer. Since, like I said, at a point in the past Vanguard DID block exorcism, maybe it was changed back? If Vanguard/Crimson Guard blocks ALL physical damage, including spells, it will be a VERY good item for any front line tank that doesn't rely on items to do damage (BB, Axe, Centaur-kinda, Timbersaw-kinda, DP-kinda, Razor-kinda, etc etc etc)
Why would you expect it to change? Should we check if Rosh gives cheeses from the first kill since noone mentioned he does not? It even explicitly says it gives a 100% chance to block 50 damage, to make it consistent with other damage blocks.
All damage blocks work on physical spells. Some spells are declared exceptions to the damage block rule. It would be silly to declare them an exception to all damage blocks but the one given by Crimson Guard.
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On September 26 2014 05:47 Acritter wrote:
I wonder why DP only got a nerf on Exorcism CD, and not a giant one at that. It's not like she really falls off.
The massive nerf to tower gold is an indirect nerf to her.
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Guessing a ticking urn disables blink dagger now?
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Tebellong44238 Posts
On September 26 2014 05:58 totalpigeon wrote:
Guessing a ticking urn disables blink dagger now?
yep, as does venge wave of terror
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Oh yeah, the damage type update, that's a huge nerf to Blink Dagger. Why haven't I seen anyone talking about that?
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I am going to blame Valve's item descriptions for confusing everyone, since Linkin's Sphere, Pipe and Crimson guard, Refraction, and Living armor all use the word "Block" but all have vastly different interactions with the thing they are blocking and how they work.
They need to fine a new word for the way they describe things that stop damage.
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On September 26 2014 05:59 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 05:58 totalpigeon wrote:
Guessing a ticking urn disables blink dagger now? yep, as does venge wave of terror
shouldn't everything that was hp removal except for deathstopper aura cancel it now because its either magic/physical/pure damage now?
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Tebellong44238 Posts
Well yes but there was a pretty distinct subset of abilities that were hp removal.
Wave of terror for example was explicitly changed to HP removal because when it was originally released it was too good vs blinks and salves etc.
It's a small nightmare buff too I think.
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On September 26 2014 06:04 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well yes but there was a pretty distinct subset of abilities that were hp removal.
Wave of terror for example was explicitly changed to HP removal because when it was originally released it was too good vs blinks and salves etc.
It isn't that simple. Poison sting was magical and didn't disable salves, etc. They could keep some of those exceptions, who knows.
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On September 26 2014 06:04 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well yes but there was a pretty distinct subset of abilities that were hp removal.
Wave of terror for example was explicitly changed to HP removal because when it was originally released it was too good vs blinks and salves etc.
It's a small nightmare buff too I think.
I wouldn't be surprised if Wave and urn are changed to negative regen, like Heartstopper.
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EPT
