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On September 26 2014 02:14 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well the activated damage block costs no mana and doesn't distinguish between ranged and melee damage block so it might be justifiable.
Have to wait and see.
However, I'm pessimistic about the item as a whole. Its fucking expensive.
i will definatly try the item on heros like axe or bristle, maybe even on timbersaw.
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On September 26 2014 02:01 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 01:57 Acritter wrote:On September 26 2014 01:54 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 01:51 Acritter wrote:On September 26 2014 01:47 Sn0_Man wrote:
When he kills u at level 6 ur respawn time more than doubles
Thats how. If he has Aghs at 6 there are probably other problems in that game u dont need aghs for longer respawn. aghs only stops buyback Oh, guess it changed. It's really not all that big a deal even so. It's painful but whatever, there's not a ton that can be done in that time. The 30% was big for lategame. That's time enough to end the game. No, it didn't change lol. And 30s is literally ALWAYS equal to or longer than 30% unless they have a buyback penalty. Its a buff, straight up. PS if they have 100s death timer u should be considering an aghs to prevent buyback in the first place.
Yeah, my point is that it doesn't change all that much except in the lategame, where 30s/30% is often literally game ending. Time matters more at that stage of the game. Only other area where it could make a difference is midgame if the deathball is already rolling, and we already know how those end.
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On September 26 2014 02:15 ChunderBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 02:12 idonthinksobro wrote:On September 26 2014 02:10 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:08 Acritter wrote:On September 26 2014 01:57 CosmicSpiral wrote:On September 26 2014 01:35 Acritter wrote:On September 26 2014 01:24 CosmicSpiral wrote:On September 26 2014 00:54 Acritter wrote:On September 25 2014 23:55 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 25 2014 23:31 Plansix wrote:
Man, Merlini continues to be the guy to listen to when it come to patch notes and level headed impressions. His break down was really on point and I like how he didn’t go through each change. His analysis of the map changes were really interesting, especially about the Radiant offlane being easier to gank(I didn’t even think of that). I also like how he just moved over stuff that he couldn’t really assess without seeing it in game, like the XP and Gold changes with only a comment “the comeback is real”.
I wish more people would do it like he did, rather than rush to put something up on youtube without even thinking about the changes.
Half the point of new patch notes is to freak out and overreact, imo. For any of the more complicated changes noone is gonna know exactly how it will play out, but it's fun to theorycraft / see people theorycraft what the hell the fallout will be. I'm still on the fence on the gold/exp changes though. If it works like I think it does, it'll only take one game of some doofus deciding that he hates our whole team and intentionally feeding two or three kills to throw most of our advantage. And even if you're losing, such a high emphasis is put on pickoffs... I dunno. I'm anxious to see what it'll do to the game, but I'm afraid I won't like it that much. The problem is that the "comeback" mechanic swings the balance more in favor of 5man teamfight over farming. Advantage is only being measured by net worth and level, here. That's not the only kind of advantage. A team can gain a sudden advantage thanks to a specific level or item pickup that isn't cleanly measured on a linear chart. Hell, they can even gain an advantage simply due to good positioning or a lucky Smoke. None of these are accounted for in the formula, meaning that winning a teamfight will give more gold than it really ought to. I'm sure we've all had these experiences of the dumb 5man ult strat winning several unlikely teamfights from way behind in a row and only sometimes managing to translate that into a win. Now it's going to be inevitable for the 5man to regain all their lost ground. The worst interaction of the new mechanic is with heroes that have basically unstoppable pickoff potential: Doom and Void. A hero can absolutely wreck the laning phase, get into the midgame with a huge advantage... and will still be killed by the pair, because Doom and Chrono are really, really strong spells. Duel, for what it's worth, has much of the same pickoff quality. Black Hole is absurdly strong, but has a significantly longer cooldown. This is going to be problematic in pro games as much as pubs. I imagine teams will attempt some kind of 4 protect 1 strat with basically invulnerable heroes like Morphling, but that will quickly devolve into yet another fucking 5man meta where everyone stays close to the carry because getting caught out gives the other team too much. Anyone remember that TI3 game where Burning got 12slotted on LD because his team was too scared to push high ground? Get ready for more of it. When one bad fight can swing the game totally around, it's just gonna get harder to break the best-defended position of the game. And now you have one less minute on your free respawn, to boot. I really hope the gold change doesn't go through. That would be the logical response if teams were into the game consciously thinking about the gold/XP changes. In reality it will probably be a mixture of "OMG this change is huge, we have to shift everything" and "Meh, we're sticking to what we know until we can feel its effect". Dota trends always seem to fall into one of these 2 extremes. And in time, the logical response will come through. It simply is the case that winning a teamfight while behind makes a much bigger difference with the comeback mechanic. This means that you either want to be planning to take advantage of that, or trying to avoid ever losing a teamfight. Teams that avoid this paradigm are just going to feed gold to the other team or get teased around the map for 30 minutes. Maybe but that's not the only possible response. We could see tanky tricore lineups focused on winning midgame fights through attrition and healing. We could see the return of Batrider as first ban/pick since he can instantly turn potential engagements into lopsided fights, minimizing the risk of losing or drawing even in lategame fights. Or we could see extremely boring games where one side gets a big advantage and does nothing for 20 minutes. No one really knows. The only guaranteed thing is that all teams won't have the same reaction simultaneously. The first possibility is literally just current meta. That'll be the start, sure, because people know how to do it. Maybe it'll even turn out that the nerfs to Razor, Viper, and Mek were totally irrelevant, and we get another three months of the same damn game. I'm pretty sure we'll just see a mega teamfight lineup take over from them. Batrider can fit into any scenario. That's part of what makes him so good. The immediate responses don't matter so much. Teams have a way of falling into a stasis, given enough time. with the new item + meka nerfs there's no point in getting it on viper/razor crimson guard is probably ass on ranged heros and because Viper has more than enough mana i would still consider mek core on him. u still get +50 block when active for both ranged and melee.
yes but you will still have a vanguard for 10 minutes instead i could have a mek immediatly and a point booster + aquila 10 minutes later on viper.
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On September 26 2014 02:14 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well the activated damage block costs no mana and doesn't distinguish between ranged and melee damage block so it might be justifiable.
Have to wait and see.
However, I'm pessimistic about the item as a whole. Its fucking expensive.
Yeah, but as Merlini pointed out, it is the only item in the game that gives you both armor and health, which is nice. However, I agree it is going to be a super limited pick up on heroes. I am totally going to give that thing a spin on BB, however. The lack of mana cost is just to good to pass up for him.
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What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero.
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On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero.
i dont think u understand how good it is to have +hp +armor +block on the same item. (ive always wanted an hp+armor item)
only 1 hero will probably be getting it
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On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. only 1 hero will probably be getting it
omg, the suspense is killing me! please tell me, what hero!?!?!?
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On September 26 2014 02:23 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. only 1 hero will probably be getting it omg, the suspense is killing me! please tell me, what hero!?!?!?
it is a support item so probably crystal maiden.
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On September 26 2014 02:23 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. only 1 hero will probably be getting it omg, the suspense is killing me! please tell me, what hero!?!?!?
Bristle.
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On September 26 2014 02:23 idonthinksobro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 02:23 crms wrote:On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. only 1 hero will probably be getting it omg, the suspense is killing me! please tell me, what hero!?!?!? it is a support item so probably crystal maiden.
idontthinksobro.
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With her new ability to farm and her gimped mana pool, its like the item was built for her.
I could see someone picking it up on Doom, since he loves armor. But I still think Shiva's and blink is better.
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1 hero per team idiots not one hero in all of dota
Hence it wont be "everybody buys a vanguard"
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On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. i dont think u understand how good it is to have +hp +armor +block on the same item. (ive always wanted an hp+armor item) only 1 hero will probably be getting it
It mostly depends on how good the damage block is. It could turn out to be a super-Mek and viable on every hero. It's definitely not worth 1600 more than Vanguard for the stats alone. Van+Platemail outcompetes CG for basic stats. Mostly depends on how long the meaningful section of the teamfight lasts. Shorter than 9s? Go Go CG. Longer? Terrible item.
I mean, the damage block mechanic could also turn out to be unbelievably limited and won't negate any damage. Time will tell.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
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On September 26 2014 02:44 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 02:22 ChunderBoy wrote:On September 26 2014 02:18 Acritter wrote:
What heroes are there that need absolutely nothing but defense? Melee heroes, to be specific? Unless I underestimate how tanky CG makes you and it's viable on ranged heroes, which might send us back to the glorious days of Vanguard on every hero. i dont think u understand how good it is to have +hp +armor +block on the same item. (ive always wanted an hp+armor item) only 1 hero will probably be getting it I mean, the damage block mechanic could also turn out to be unbelievably limited and won't negate any damage.
Okay, I'll bite,
How?
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3 tanky cores. EZ 27s of block dmg.
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On September 26 2014 02:51 babysimba wrote:
3 tanky cores. EZ 27s of block dmg.
You can't stack it (like Mek + Pipe)
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On September 26 2014 02:27 Sn0_Man wrote:
1 hero per team idiots not one hero in all of dota
Hence it wont be "everybody buys a vanguard"
Stop being a fun ruiner :D That comment chain was 1,000x more fun than the hypocritical nonsense that went completely unnoticed and required grade A shit posting to break.
The thread can now return to it's regularly scheduled posting of 'i disagree with your opinion so I believe we must wait and see how it works out, but here are my opinions on other things that we don't need to wait on because it's my opinion on that thing.'
![[image loading]](http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/c/cb/Emoticon_crazy.gif)
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United States15275 Posts
So apparently Sun Strike is going through BKB. This is unintentional, right? Or is this similar to Pudge's hook?
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I don't know, Hook goes through and it has the Frog's blessing, so I have to assume that Sun Strike does as well. I mean, people rarely used BKB to avoid sunstrike damage, so I don't think its a huge deal. Funny though.
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EPT
