6.82 Balance Changes and Discussion Thread - Page 21

On September 24 2014 13:56 TheYango wrote:
If Urn really does Pure damage now and not HP removal, TA is going to have some tough times.

On September 24 2014 12:51 Ryuu314 wrote:

Bloodseeker got buffed i think. No more point and click silence is pretty huge, but the new Bloodrage is still pretty good. Blood Rite is huge disruption and the pure damage nuke is nothing to scoff at if it lands. His passive also got buffed a pretty decent amount since it grants the bonuses linearly as well as getting a small buff.

I think PL got a big nerf, personally. No more free magic resist off ult means it's a hell of a lot easier to get rid of his illusions. Add to that the pretty huge Agi gain nerf means his illusions are a lot weaker now. Granted, you get that neat 1 second dodge ability, but the cooldown is reasonably long and I'm not sure it's enough to make up for significantly weaker illusions. Phantom Rush also seems really meh. PL doesn't really have a problem chasing people down between Spirit Lance + Diffusal. This also means he loses Doppelwalk, which was really huge in letting him get big.

On September 24 2014 14:05 CosmicSpiral wrote:
I'm kinda scared that teams are going to respond to the new XP/gold changes by playing extremely passive once they get a lead.

On September 24 2014 14:32 Fleetfeet wrote:


Bloodseeker got nerfed.

Probably.

I originally misread the Bloodrage changes to where you had to cast it on a creep, and then last hit the creep in order to get the 25% creep hp heal. That isn't the case, and while basically permanently self-debuffing a %damage amp seems like a shitty option, it does seem better than being restricted on your sustain by a 12/10/8/6 second cooldown, as I had misread it to be.

But I still think he's nerfed. Why? Because there's no synergy to his kit. At all.

Thirst is cool, but you have NO harass and are relying entirely on other lanes or your supports to be poking the shit out of the enemy. And unless they get harassed a lot, you don't even have much to threaten with.

New Blood Rite is awful. Yes, 1500 cast range, 3/4/5/6s silence and 600 aoe are fantastic, glorious numbers. Three seconds of delay and a visual for the opponents makes it awful.

Rupture lost its initial damage. What. in other words, rupture is ALWAYS going to do 150/250/350 PURE damage less than it used to. That's huge. That's enormous. That's like Icefrog coming in and going "Oh, by the way, Magnus' RP no longer does damage. At all."

Lastly, New Bloodrage is ass against heroes. It used to be this:

You spot an enemy lina in lane. You cast rupture on her, with your level 8 power, then silence her so she cannot run, cannot cast spells on you, and literally has no option except to TP, or to pray her allies show up to save her. In doing this, you quite probably get kills, quite probably get boatloads of experience, and quite probably snowball.

Now, you have this:

You spot an enemy lina in lane. You cast rupture, followed shortly by Blood Rite with her on the center. She TP's. You cast two spells and did -literally zero- damage to her.

You spot an enemy crystal maiden in lane without a tp. You in your level 8 majesty cast rupture, followed shortly by blood rite with her in the center. She walks the ~325 units required to get out of the AoE, taking an astounding 65 damage from your ultimate ability....

Hell, just for shits and giggles, let's pretend a PA threw a dagger at her, and slowed her for 50% of her movespeed for 4 seconds (but for the sake of argument did no damage) before you cast blood rite. She STILL walks the ~325 units required to get out of the AoE before it gets off, taking an astounding 65 damage from your ultimate ability. She then turns and casts frostbite, and you stand awkwardly next to the bleeding-but-not-bleeding maiden, unable to hit her.

Bored, you cast bloodbath on yourself, making the Crystal maiden who has taken an astounding 65 damage from all your efforts so far -cough- very -cough- very scared of you. Bored, she begins channeling her ultimate.

No, wait, fuck it. She's level 5. She doesn't have ultimate. She has tranquil boots, three branches, a magic wand, and some of the shittiest base stats and stat growth in the fucking game. Her amazing 625 hp and 6 armour are so impressive that she's rivaling the ehp of a level 1 ogre magi against physical damage. Impressive.

But you're BLOODSEEKER. Level 8! And you have a poor man's shield so you didn't get your face bashed in in lane, and brown boots, so you weren't the slowest piece of shit on the planet! And you've also got a wraith band, because why not. You do an amazing 91 average damage with autos, plus probably 20 damage from your aura, which you maxed, because it only makes sense to get points into things that won't get you killed by unsilenced targets faster.

So because math is hard, let's assume that in the rupture -> Blood rite -> run at a mothafucka -> get fucking frostbited, 6 seconds has elapsed. It's somewhere around there, you have ~350 movespeed and CM is 1325 units from where you cast rupture, and frostbite rank 2 is 2 second duration.

She's at around 550-600 hp. You need 5-6 autoattacks to kill her, you perform about an autoattack a second, and CM has a wand with at least 3 charges. And tranquil boots. It's around there.

SO. An astounding 12 seconds after the rupture is cast, the level 8 bloodseeker prevails over the level 5 crystal maiden! Such power.

Let's look at why this happened.

1. The CM didn't have a TP.
2. The CM wasn't 6.
3. The CM had talked shit to her team earlier, which is the only possible excuse for absolutely noone tping in the twelve fucking seconds it took the bloodseeker to kill the poor support.
4. The CM was so far out of position that she couldn't just run back to a tower. I mean, hell, even if the tower is 1000 units away, you're only taking 200 damage by walking there. And there's no 50% hp thing, and no initial rupture damage, so you don't risk dropping below 50% hp and turning the bloodseeker into a feral, rabid carnivore that's going to paint the river with your segmented fleshy bits.
5. The CM autoattacks like a soggy noodle, and has two points in an aura that is incapable of damaging you, so she was deprived of the option of "Just fucking kill him".

So yeah. The hero's either a support, or trash.

(edit) sorry Nazgul! :D

On September 24 2014 15:05 Ohnoitztotoro wrote:
Thanks for explaining the Chen change Leloup. Can anyone clarify what the dark seer change means though? Changing his CD from 28.0 sec to 28?

Edit: I looked it up and I guess I just got trolled by Valve lol.

On September 24 2014 14:32 Fleetfeet wrote:


Bloodseeker got nerfed.

Probably.

I originally misread the Bloodrage changes to where you had to cast it on a creep, and then last hit the creep in order to get the 25% creep hp heal. That isn't the case, and while basically permanently self-debuffing a %damage amp seems like a shitty option, it does seem better than being restricted on your sustain by a 12/10/8/6 second cooldown, as I had misread it to be.

But I still think he's nerfed. Why? Because there's no synergy to his kit. At all.

Thirst is cool, but you have NO harass and are relying entirely on other lanes or your supports to be poking the shit out of the enemy. And unless they get harassed a lot, you don't even have much to threaten with.

New Blood Rite is awful. Yes, 1500 cast range, 3/4/5/6s silence and 600 aoe are fantastic, glorious numbers. Three seconds of delay and a visual for the opponents makes it awful.

Rupture lost its initial damage. What. in other words, rupture is ALWAYS going to do 150/250/350 PURE damage less than it used to. That's huge. That's enormous. That's like Icefrog coming in and going "Oh, by the way, Magnus' RP no longer does damage. At all."

Lastly, New Bloodrage is ass against heroes. It used to be this:

You spot an enemy lina in lane. You cast rupture on her, with your level 8 power, then silence her so she cannot run, cannot cast spells on you, and literally has no option except to TP, or to pray her allies show up to save her. In doing this, you quite probably get kills, quite probably get boatloads of experience, and quite probably snowball.

Now, you have this:

You spot an enemy lina in lane. You cast rupture, followed shortly by Blood Rite with her on the center. She TP's. You cast two spells and did -literally zero- damage to her.

You spot an enemy crystal maiden in lane without a tp. You in your level 8 majesty cast rupture, followed shortly by blood rite with her in the center. She walks the ~325 units required to get out of the AoE, taking an astounding 65 damage from your ultimate ability....

Hell, just for shits and giggles, let's pretend a PA threw a dagger at her, and slowed her for 50% of her movespeed for 4 seconds (but for the sake of argument did no damage) before you cast blood rite. She STILL walks the ~325 units required to get out of the AoE before it gets off, taking an astounding 65 damage from your ultimate ability. She then turns and casts frostbite, and you stand awkwardly next to the bleeding-but-not-bleeding maiden, unable to hit her.

Bored, you cast bloodbath on yourself, making the Crystal maiden who has taken an astounding 65 damage from all your efforts so far -cough- very -cough- very scared of you. Bored, she begins channeling her ultimate.

No, wait, fuck it. She's level 5. She doesn't have ultimate. She has tranquil boots, three branches, a magic wand, and some of the shittiest base stats and stat growth in the fucking game. Her amazing 625 hp and 6 armour are so impressive that she's rivaling the ehp of a level 1 ogre magi against physical damage. Impressive.

But you're BLOODSEEKER. Level 8! And you have a poor man's shield so you didn't get your face bashed in in lane, and brown boots, so you weren't the slowest piece of shit on the planet! And you've also got a wraith band, because why not. You do an amazing 91 average damage with autos, plus probably 20 damage from your aura, which you maxed, because it only makes sense to get points into things that won't get you killed by unsilenced targets faster.

So because math is hard, let's assume that in the rupture -> Blood rite -> run at a mothafucka -> get fucking frostbited, 6 seconds has elapsed. It's somewhere around there, you have ~350 movespeed and CM is 1325 units from where you cast rupture, and frostbite rank 2 is 2 second duration.

She's at around 550-600 hp. You need 5-6 autoattacks to kill her, you perform about an autoattack a second, and CM has a wand with at least 3 charges. And tranquil boots. It's around there.

SO. An astounding 12 seconds after the rupture is cast, the level 8 bloodseeker prevails over the level 5 crystal maiden! Such power.

Let's look at why this happened.

1. The CM didn't have a TP.
2. The CM wasn't 6.
3. The CM had talked shit to her team earlier, which is the only possible excuse for absolutely noone tping in the twelve fucking seconds it took the bloodseeker to kill the poor support.
4. The CM was so far out of position that she couldn't just run back to a tower. I mean, hell, even if the tower is 1000 units away, you're only taking 200 damage by walking there. And there's no 50% hp thing, and no initial rupture damage, so you don't risk dropping below 50% hp and turning the bloodseeker into a feral, rabid carnivore that's going to paint the river with your segmented fleshy bits.
5. The CM autoattacks like a soggy noodle, and has two points in an aura that is incapable of damaging you, so she was deprived of the option of "Just fucking kill him".

So yeah. The hero's either a support, or trash.

(edit) sorry Nazgul! :D

On September 24 2014 15:09 Fleetfeet wrote:
Chen with 3 big ancient creeps is going to be so broken. That's three creeps with 1700 (thunderhide) or 2300 (golem, dragon) hp that are magic immune. As a bonus, the Thunderhide has 1400 daytime vision... just a pity that dragons lost their "flying unit" status a few patches ago.

On September 24 2014 15:05 Ohnoitztotoro wrote:
Thanks for explaining the Chen change Leloup. Can anyone clarify what the dark seer change means though? Changing his CD from 28.0 sec to 28?

Edit: I looked it up and I guess I just got trolled by Valve lol.

On September 24 2014 15:11 hooahah wrote:


if you have Aghs with Chen and you haven't won the game yet, you've lost. Ancient creeps aren't doing shit after 20~ minutes.