• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:48
CET 09:48
KST 17:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage8Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23
StarCraft 2
General
Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top? Liquibets sc2 season 30 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 iNu's Battles #22 SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement!
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool List of top players active on ShieldBattery [BW] Looking for Clan Thread! [BSL23] RO16 Group Stage [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [$1250] International ShieldBattery League Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 14153 users

General Discussion - Page 6274

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6272 6273 6274 6275 6276 6534 Next
IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
August 26 2014 15:32 GMT
#125461
On August 27 2014 00:23 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 00:16 Acritter wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:08 TheYango wrote:
On August 26 2014 22:59 Acritter wrote:
To be perfectly honest, max Upheaval Warlock seems crazy strong if you have a team that can somewhat support it. The critical piece of the puzzle is your teammates. You need to have heroes that can really benefit from the honestly crazy zone control that the spell provides. Sniper comes to mind, for example, as does Lifestealer. Enigma has some potential too, but I personally wouldn't pick him because it gives your team zero early game. Hell, Dark Seer seems like he'd be amazing, with his Vac+Wall just doing obscene amounts of damage, and same with Disruptor. I wouldn't pick Warlock out of the blue, or with heroes like Void and Bloodseeker, but in the right lineup I can see him being crazy strong.

The thing is, because of the way Upheaval works as a spell (slow % is dependent on channel time, not on time in the AoE), you don't need to max it out that fast. At low levels, almost all heroes are going to have only 300-350 MS, so they will reach minimum MS at ~65-70% slow. After the initial buildup, the spell's slow % stays the same for the rest of the duration. While going from rank 1 to rank 2, this changes the time needed for the slow to reach minimum MS from 10s to 5, going from rank 2-3 the difference is only 5s to 4s.

I think Upheaval is a fantastic skill, but the incremental gain of the 3rd and 4th ranks isn't that high until there are heroes with higher MS in the game.

If you're playing as a support role, then you're not getting to level 7 before the other team has finished Phase Boots and Drums.

Wait, the other team has supports too, so someone has brown boots over there too. And if you get off a couple seconds of channel, it will still slow them down enough. Orb of venom only has a 12% slow, which level 1 upheaval gets after 1 second of channeling. The carry is going to care, even with phase boosts and drums.

OoV is something you do while doing something else. Namely, attacking. Comparing it to a spell is silly. Higher levels in Upheaval mean that you can instantly put major control onto the fight that can't be stopped just by stunning you. If they do stun you out of it, it's still a significant slow, and they've used one of their most valuable spells on an otherwise kind of irrelevant support.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
August 26 2014 15:34 GMT
#125462
On August 27 2014 00:32 Plansix wrote:
Once I am channeling upheaval, I have dumped all my spells as warlock and I won't be able to cast them against until the full channel ends, if not beyond that. If they want to blow a stun on me just to stop, upheaval, great. Also its has the range of a full blink dagger.

Also, we can assume both sides have teams doing stuff.
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 00:30 teddyoojo wrote:
upheavel is a very good spell but ever since they made warlock dot the best spell in dota its stupid to not go that

I don't think anyone is arguing getting it over maxing the Dot.

yes, aui and slahser are.
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
August 26 2014 15:34 GMT
#125463
Meracle playing WR on his stream, im happy.
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-26 15:40:06
August 26 2014 15:35 GMT
#125464
On August 27 2014 00:32 Plansix wrote:
Once I am channeling upheaval, I have dumped all my spells as warlock and I won't be able to cast them against until the full channel ends, if not beyond that. If they want to blow a stun on me just to stop, upheaval, great. Also its has the range of a full blink dagger.

Also, we can assume both sides have teams doing stuff.
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 00:30 teddyoojo wrote:
upheavel is a very good spell but ever since they made warlock dot the best spell in dota its stupid to not go that

I don't think anyone is arguing getting it over maxing the Dot.


actually the whole thing started becasue of the slahser video where he suggests a skill build of 1-1-4-1

but the whole discussion is flawed in the first place as warlock is usually a very high priority target if not the highest priority target to kill. You usually don't want to initiate against a warlock that has ulti, this is just suicide, you try to pick him off or force him to use a bad ulti to survive before you make your move.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 26 2014 15:37 GMT
#125465
On August 27 2014 00:32 Acritter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 00:23 Plansix wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:16 Acritter wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:08 TheYango wrote:
On August 26 2014 22:59 Acritter wrote:
To be perfectly honest, max Upheaval Warlock seems crazy strong if you have a team that can somewhat support it. The critical piece of the puzzle is your teammates. You need to have heroes that can really benefit from the honestly crazy zone control that the spell provides. Sniper comes to mind, for example, as does Lifestealer. Enigma has some potential too, but I personally wouldn't pick him because it gives your team zero early game. Hell, Dark Seer seems like he'd be amazing, with his Vac+Wall just doing obscene amounts of damage, and same with Disruptor. I wouldn't pick Warlock out of the blue, or with heroes like Void and Bloodseeker, but in the right lineup I can see him being crazy strong.

The thing is, because of the way Upheaval works as a spell (slow % is dependent on channel time, not on time in the AoE), you don't need to max it out that fast. At low levels, almost all heroes are going to have only 300-350 MS, so they will reach minimum MS at ~65-70% slow. After the initial buildup, the spell's slow % stays the same for the rest of the duration. While going from rank 1 to rank 2, this changes the time needed for the slow to reach minimum MS from 10s to 5, going from rank 2-3 the difference is only 5s to 4s.

I think Upheaval is a fantastic skill, but the incremental gain of the 3rd and 4th ranks isn't that high until there are heroes with higher MS in the game.

If you're playing as a support role, then you're not getting to level 7 before the other team has finished Phase Boots and Drums.

Wait, the other team has supports too, so someone has brown boots over there too. And if you get off a couple seconds of channel, it will still slow them down enough. Orb of venom only has a 12% slow, which level 1 upheaval gets after 1 second of channeling. The carry is going to care, even with phase boosts and drums.

OoV is something you do while doing something else. Namely, attacking. Comparing it to a spell is silly. Higher levels in Upheaval mean that you can instantly put major control onto the fight that can't be stopped just by stunning you. If they do stun you out of it, it's still a significant slow, and they've used one of their most valuable spells on an otherwise kind of irrelevant support.

It also has a blink dagger's range, so its likely something you do when you can't auto attack and won't be able to catch the target, so you drop upheaval to either zone out enemy players trying to help or slow down your teams target.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-26 15:38:50
August 26 2014 15:38 GMT
#125466
On August 27 2014 00:35 idonthinksobro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 00:32 Plansix wrote:
Once I am channeling upheaval, I have dumped all my spells as warlock and I won't be able to cast them against until the full channel ends, if not beyond that. If they want to blow a stun on me just to stop, upheaval, great. Also its has the range of a full blink dagger.

Also, we can assume both sides have teams doing stuff.
On August 27 2014 00:30 teddyoojo wrote:
upheavel is a very good spell but ever since they made warlock dot the best spell in dota its stupid to not go that

I don't think anyone is arguing getting it over maxing the Dot.


actually the whole thing started becasue of the slahser video where he suggests a skill build of 1-1-4-1

No its all started when I said someone could put a value point in the skill and you said there was no such thing as a value point in upheaval.(looking at it, 2 value points might be better before going back to bonds). I never said you shouldn't get the dot first.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
August 26 2014 15:40 GMT
#125467
On August 27 2014 00:38 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 00:35 idonthinksobro wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:32 Plansix wrote:
Once I am channeling upheaval, I have dumped all my spells as warlock and I won't be able to cast them against until the full channel ends, if not beyond that. If they want to blow a stun on me just to stop, upheaval, great. Also its has the range of a full blink dagger.

Also, we can assume both sides have teams doing stuff.
On August 27 2014 00:30 teddyoojo wrote:
upheavel is a very good spell but ever since they made warlock dot the best spell in dota its stupid to not go that

I don't think anyone is arguing getting it over maxing the Dot.


actually the whole thing started becasue of the slahser video where he suggests a skill build of 1-1-4-1

No its all started when I said someone could put a value point in the skill and you said there was no such thing as a value point in upheaval.(looking at it, 2 value points might be better before going back to bonds). I never said you shouldn't get the dot first.


no it started a couple of pages before that, it just got reheated later.
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
August 26 2014 15:41 GMT
#125468
On August 27 2014 00:34 Mensol wrote:
Meracle playing WR on his stream, im happy.

He is raping as expected, easily the best WR i've ever watched.
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
August 26 2014 15:41 GMT
#125469
On August 27 2014 00:37 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 00:32 Acritter wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:23 Plansix wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:16 Acritter wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:08 TheYango wrote:
On August 26 2014 22:59 Acritter wrote:
To be perfectly honest, max Upheaval Warlock seems crazy strong if you have a team that can somewhat support it. The critical piece of the puzzle is your teammates. You need to have heroes that can really benefit from the honestly crazy zone control that the spell provides. Sniper comes to mind, for example, as does Lifestealer. Enigma has some potential too, but I personally wouldn't pick him because it gives your team zero early game. Hell, Dark Seer seems like he'd be amazing, with his Vac+Wall just doing obscene amounts of damage, and same with Disruptor. I wouldn't pick Warlock out of the blue, or with heroes like Void and Bloodseeker, but in the right lineup I can see him being crazy strong.

The thing is, because of the way Upheaval works as a spell (slow % is dependent on channel time, not on time in the AoE), you don't need to max it out that fast. At low levels, almost all heroes are going to have only 300-350 MS, so they will reach minimum MS at ~65-70% slow. After the initial buildup, the spell's slow % stays the same for the rest of the duration. While going from rank 1 to rank 2, this changes the time needed for the slow to reach minimum MS from 10s to 5, going from rank 2-3 the difference is only 5s to 4s.

I think Upheaval is a fantastic skill, but the incremental gain of the 3rd and 4th ranks isn't that high until there are heroes with higher MS in the game.

If you're playing as a support role, then you're not getting to level 7 before the other team has finished Phase Boots and Drums.

Wait, the other team has supports too, so someone has brown boots over there too. And if you get off a couple seconds of channel, it will still slow them down enough. Orb of venom only has a 12% slow, which level 1 upheaval gets after 1 second of channeling. The carry is going to care, even with phase boosts and drums.

OoV is something you do while doing something else. Namely, attacking. Comparing it to a spell is silly. Higher levels in Upheaval mean that you can instantly put major control onto the fight that can't be stopped just by stunning you. If they do stun you out of it, it's still a significant slow, and they've used one of their most valuable spells on an otherwise kind of irrelevant support.

It also has a blink dagger's range, so its likely something you do when you can't auto attack and won't be able to catch the target, so you drop upheaval to either zone out enemy players trying to help or slow down your teams target.

What? No. Your slow's worth far more than your shitty autoattacks. Your slow will let your allies get off many, many more autoattacks. What are you even thinking?
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-26 15:47:37
August 26 2014 15:42 GMT
#125470
On August 27 2014 00:40 idonthinksobro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 00:38 Plansix wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:35 idonthinksobro wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:32 Plansix wrote:
Once I am channeling upheaval, I have dumped all my spells as warlock and I won't be able to cast them against until the full channel ends, if not beyond that. If they want to blow a stun on me just to stop, upheaval, great. Also its has the range of a full blink dagger.

Also, we can assume both sides have teams doing stuff.
On August 27 2014 00:30 teddyoojo wrote:
upheavel is a very good spell but ever since they made warlock dot the best spell in dota its stupid to not go that

I don't think anyone is arguing getting it over maxing the Dot.


actually the whole thing started becasue of the slahser video where he suggests a skill build of 1-1-4-1

No its all started when I said someone could put a value point in the skill and you said there was no such thing as a value point in upheaval.(looking at it, 2 value points might be better before going back to bonds). I never said you shouldn't get the dot first.


no it started a couple of pages before that, it just got reheated later.

Yeah, well his build is stupid and you should always max the dot/heal. But there are valid reasons not to max bond and get a couple points in upheaval as necessary.

On August 27 2014 00:41 Acritter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 00:37 Plansix wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:32 Acritter wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:23 Plansix wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:16 Acritter wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:08 TheYango wrote:
On August 26 2014 22:59 Acritter wrote:
To be perfectly honest, max Upheaval Warlock seems crazy strong if you have a team that can somewhat support it. The critical piece of the puzzle is your teammates. You need to have heroes that can really benefit from the honestly crazy zone control that the spell provides. Sniper comes to mind, for example, as does Lifestealer. Enigma has some potential too, but I personally wouldn't pick him because it gives your team zero early game. Hell, Dark Seer seems like he'd be amazing, with his Vac+Wall just doing obscene amounts of damage, and same with Disruptor. I wouldn't pick Warlock out of the blue, or with heroes like Void and Bloodseeker, but in the right lineup I can see him being crazy strong.

The thing is, because of the way Upheaval works as a spell (slow % is dependent on channel time, not on time in the AoE), you don't need to max it out that fast. At low levels, almost all heroes are going to have only 300-350 MS, so they will reach minimum MS at ~65-70% slow. After the initial buildup, the spell's slow % stays the same for the rest of the duration. While going from rank 1 to rank 2, this changes the time needed for the slow to reach minimum MS from 10s to 5, going from rank 2-3 the difference is only 5s to 4s.

I think Upheaval is a fantastic skill, but the incremental gain of the 3rd and 4th ranks isn't that high until there are heroes with higher MS in the game.

If you're playing as a support role, then you're not getting to level 7 before the other team has finished Phase Boots and Drums.

Wait, the other team has supports too, so someone has brown boots over there too. And if you get off a couple seconds of channel, it will still slow them down enough. Orb of venom only has a 12% slow, which level 1 upheaval gets after 1 second of channeling. The carry is going to care, even with phase boosts and drums.

OoV is something you do while doing something else. Namely, attacking. Comparing it to a spell is silly. Higher levels in Upheaval mean that you can instantly put major control onto the fight that can't be stopped just by stunning you. If they do stun you out of it, it's still a significant slow, and they've used one of their most valuable spells on an otherwise kind of irrelevant support.

It also has a blink dagger's range, so its likely something you do when you can't auto attack and won't be able to catch the target, so you drop upheaval to either zone out enemy players trying to help or slow down your teams target.

What? No. Your slow's worth far more than your shitty autoattacks. Your slow will let your allies get off many, many more autoattacks. What are you even thinking?

Yeah, likely. Still at level 7, you damage might still be significant to still matter, but your likely better off just dropping the slow.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
August 26 2014 15:46 GMT
#125471
On August 27 2014 00:31 crms wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2014 23:56 Plansix wrote:
On August 26 2014 23:50 Targe wrote:
On August 26 2014 23:49 lprk wrote:
On August 26 2014 23:09 goody153 wrote:
On August 26 2014 22:05 TyrionSC2 wrote:
728 pages till next CM tip!

HYPE !

and wow rabbit for $130K .. how much are other chinese players paid ? 130k seems a lot



"Currently there are five top-tier teams in China, with players in these teams earning around 500,000 yuan annually, a couple even twice that." Xuntao currently belongs to a top-eight team, HGT. Having played pro for two years, Xuntao reveals his salary is now about 200,000 yuan.

wow 500k yuan is 50 grand a year

50K is very passable for a high level player as long as he does't have to cover travel or anything like that. I like this system better than the Korea system of paying everyone nothing until they make it big.

he's using GBP, it's ~$82,000 USD which is pretty damn nice for playing video games in China. I think the average Chinese salary is like $4,000 USD a year. Though not sure how meaningful that 'average' is in China where the income gap is wider than Michael Strahans teeth.

50 grand is pretty good playing video games anywhere D
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
August 26 2014 15:53 GMT
#125472
On August 27 2014 00:46 Targe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 00:31 crms wrote:
On August 26 2014 23:56 Plansix wrote:
On August 26 2014 23:50 Targe wrote:
On August 26 2014 23:49 lprk wrote:
On August 26 2014 23:09 goody153 wrote:
On August 26 2014 22:05 TyrionSC2 wrote:
728 pages till next CM tip!

HYPE !

and wow rabbit for $130K .. how much are other chinese players paid ? 130k seems a lot



"Currently there are five top-tier teams in China, with players in these teams earning around 500,000 yuan annually, a couple even twice that." Xuntao currently belongs to a top-eight team, HGT. Having played pro for two years, Xuntao reveals his salary is now about 200,000 yuan.

wow 500k yuan is 50 grand a year

50K is very passable for a high level player as long as he does't have to cover travel or anything like that. I like this system better than the Korea system of paying everyone nothing until they make it big.

he's using GBP, it's ~$82,000 USD which is pretty damn nice for playing video games in China. I think the average Chinese salary is like $4,000 USD a year. Though not sure how meaningful that 'average' is in China where the income gap is wider than Michael Strahans teeth.

50 grand is pretty good playing video games anywhere D

yeah but you keep using monkey currency so I wanted to clarify for everyone.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
August 26 2014 16:01 GMT
#125473
On August 27 2014 00:42 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 00:40 idonthinksobro wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:38 Plansix wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:35 idonthinksobro wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:32 Plansix wrote:
Once I am channeling upheaval, I have dumped all my spells as warlock and I won't be able to cast them against until the full channel ends, if not beyond that. If they want to blow a stun on me just to stop, upheaval, great. Also its has the range of a full blink dagger.

Also, we can assume both sides have teams doing stuff.
On August 27 2014 00:30 teddyoojo wrote:
upheavel is a very good spell but ever since they made warlock dot the best spell in dota its stupid to not go that

I don't think anyone is arguing getting it over maxing the Dot.


actually the whole thing started becasue of the slahser video where he suggests a skill build of 1-1-4-1

No its all started when I said someone could put a value point in the skill and you said there was no such thing as a value point in upheaval.(looking at it, 2 value points might be better before going back to bonds). I never said you shouldn't get the dot first.


no it started a couple of pages before that, it just got reheated later.

Yeah, well his build is stupid and you should always max the dot/heal. But there are valid reasons not to max bond and get a couple points in upheaval as necessary.

Show nested quote +
On August 27 2014 00:41 Acritter wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:37 Plansix wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:32 Acritter wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:23 Plansix wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:16 Acritter wrote:
On August 27 2014 00:08 TheYango wrote:
On August 26 2014 22:59 Acritter wrote:
To be perfectly honest, max Upheaval Warlock seems crazy strong if you have a team that can somewhat support it. The critical piece of the puzzle is your teammates. You need to have heroes that can really benefit from the honestly crazy zone control that the spell provides. Sniper comes to mind, for example, as does Lifestealer. Enigma has some potential too, but I personally wouldn't pick him because it gives your team zero early game. Hell, Dark Seer seems like he'd be amazing, with his Vac+Wall just doing obscene amounts of damage, and same with Disruptor. I wouldn't pick Warlock out of the blue, or with heroes like Void and Bloodseeker, but in the right lineup I can see him being crazy strong.

The thing is, because of the way Upheaval works as a spell (slow % is dependent on channel time, not on time in the AoE), you don't need to max it out that fast. At low levels, almost all heroes are going to have only 300-350 MS, so they will reach minimum MS at ~65-70% slow. After the initial buildup, the spell's slow % stays the same for the rest of the duration. While going from rank 1 to rank 2, this changes the time needed for the slow to reach minimum MS from 10s to 5, going from rank 2-3 the difference is only 5s to 4s.

I think Upheaval is a fantastic skill, but the incremental gain of the 3rd and 4th ranks isn't that high until there are heroes with higher MS in the game.

If you're playing as a support role, then you're not getting to level 7 before the other team has finished Phase Boots and Drums.

Wait, the other team has supports too, so someone has brown boots over there too. And if you get off a couple seconds of channel, it will still slow them down enough. Orb of venom only has a 12% slow, which level 1 upheaval gets after 1 second of channeling. The carry is going to care, even with phase boosts and drums.

OoV is something you do while doing something else. Namely, attacking. Comparing it to a spell is silly. Higher levels in Upheaval mean that you can instantly put major control onto the fight that can't be stopped just by stunning you. If they do stun you out of it, it's still a significant slow, and they've used one of their most valuable spells on an otherwise kind of irrelevant support.

It also has a blink dagger's range, so its likely something you do when you can't auto attack and won't be able to catch the target, so you drop upheaval to either zone out enemy players trying to help or slow down your teams target.

What? No. Your slow's worth far more than your shitty autoattacks. Your slow will let your allies get off many, many more autoattacks. What are you even thinking?

Yeah, likely. Still at level 7, you damage might still be significant to still matter, but your likely better off just dropping the slow.

Your damage will be even less significant at 7. The heroes that matter will scale in defense far faster than you scale in offense (outside of your imbarocks). The only time I could even be close to saying "okay, yeah, you should autoattack here" is level 1, and then you should probably have Word instead, making the slow not even relevant.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
August 26 2014 16:43 GMT
#125474
casters that cast games on shitty streaming platforms ruin dota - one game at a time...
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 26 2014 16:44 GMT
#125475
We are going to need more details, otherwise you are just stating factual information about life in general.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
August 26 2014 16:45 GMT
#125476
Who owns SeeMeplay?
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-26 16:47:27
August 26 2014 16:46 GMT
#125477
On August 27 2014 01:44 Plansix wrote:
We are going to need more details, otherwise you are just stating factual information about life in general.


megafon tournament on seemeplay.ru is literally unwatchable, there are like 20 reddit threads about it.
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 26 2014 16:51 GMT
#125478
[image loading]

Chappy is now Team Tinker manager.... I guess TTinker is confirmed for project RED?
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
August 26 2014 17:02 GMT
#125479
That's old, also ChappY is no longer affiliated with Complexity afaik (see his name being @chappYcast).

But yes it could still be the case.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Adrian_mx
Profile Joined April 2010
Mexico1880 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-26 17:10:17
August 26 2014 17:10 GMT
#125480
Patch comes out today boys ! Im getting ready
我是冠军
Prev 1 6272 6273 6274 6275 6276 6534 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mcanning 148
SortOf 88
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2987
firebathero 329
Hyun 118
Sharp 71
Killer 57
Shinee 40
Bale 34
ToSsGirL 31
Free 20
soO 13
[ Show more ]
zelot 13
Dota 2
monkeys_forever43
Counter-Strike
fl0m3762
shoxiejesuss326
Other Games
summit1g11944
ceh9452
WinterStarcraft360
Happy195
Fuzer 143
XaKoH 100
Mew2King67
KnowMe61
Railgan18
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick534
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2255
League of Legends
• Stunt457
Upcoming Events
INu's Battles
3h 12m
ByuN vs Classic
3D!Clan Event
7h 42m
The PondCast
1d 1h
KCM Race Survival
1d 1h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 3h
OSC
1d 14h
Ultimate Battle
2 days
OSC
2 days
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
IPSL
3 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
[ Show More ]
BSL
3 days
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
IPSL
4 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
4 days
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-09
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.