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On August 27 2014 00:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 00:16 Acritter wrote:On August 27 2014 00:08 TheYango wrote:On August 26 2014 22:59 Acritter wrote:
To be perfectly honest, max Upheaval Warlock seems crazy strong if you have a team that can somewhat support it. The critical piece of the puzzle is your teammates. You need to have heroes that can really benefit from the honestly crazy zone control that the spell provides. Sniper comes to mind, for example, as does Lifestealer. Enigma has some potential too, but I personally wouldn't pick him because it gives your team zero early game. Hell, Dark Seer seems like he'd be amazing, with his Vac+Wall just doing obscene amounts of damage, and same with Disruptor. I wouldn't pick Warlock out of the blue, or with heroes like Void and Bloodseeker, but in the right lineup I can see him being crazy strong. The thing is, because of the way Upheaval works as a spell (slow % is dependent on channel time, not on time in the AoE), you don't need to max it out that fast. At low levels, almost all heroes are going to have only 300-350 MS, so they will reach minimum MS at ~65-70% slow. After the initial buildup, the spell's slow % stays the same for the rest of the duration. While going from rank 1 to rank 2, this changes the time needed for the slow to reach minimum MS from 10s to 5, going from rank 2-3 the difference is only 5s to 4s. I think Upheaval is a fantastic skill, but the incremental gain of the 3rd and 4th ranks isn't that high until there are heroes with higher MS in the game. If you're playing as a support role, then you're not getting to level 7 before the other team has finished Phase Boots and Drums. Wait, the other team has supports too, so someone has brown boots over there too. And if you get off a couple seconds of channel, it will still slow them down enough. Orb of venom only has a 12% slow, which level 1 upheaval gets after 1 second of channeling. The carry is going to care, even with phase boosts and drums.
OoV is something you do while doing something else. Namely, attacking. Comparing it to a spell is silly. Higher levels in Upheaval mean that you can instantly put major control onto the fight that can't be stopped just by stunning you. If they do stun you out of it, it's still a significant slow, and they've used one of their most valuable spells on an otherwise kind of irrelevant support.
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On August 27 2014 00:32 Plansix wrote:Once I am channeling upheaval, I have dumped all my spells as warlock and I won't be able to cast them against until the full channel ends, if not beyond that. If they want to blow a stun on me just to stop, upheaval, great. Also its has the range of a full blink dagger. Also, we can assume both sides have teams doing stuff. Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 00:30 teddyoojo wrote:
upheavel is a very good spell but ever since they made warlock dot the best spell in dota its stupid to not go that I don't think anyone is arguing getting it over maxing the Dot.
yes, aui and slahser are.
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Meracle playing WR on his stream, im happy.
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On August 27 2014 00:32 Plansix wrote:Once I am channeling upheaval, I have dumped all my spells as warlock and I won't be able to cast them against until the full channel ends, if not beyond that. If they want to blow a stun on me just to stop, upheaval, great. Also its has the range of a full blink dagger. Also, we can assume both sides have teams doing stuff. Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 00:30 teddyoojo wrote:
upheavel is a very good spell but ever since they made warlock dot the best spell in dota its stupid to not go that I don't think anyone is arguing getting it over maxing the Dot.
actually the whole thing started becasue of the slahser video where he suggests a skill build of 1-1-4-1
but the whole discussion is flawed in the first place as warlock is usually a very high priority target if not the highest priority target to kill. You usually don't want to initiate against a warlock that has ulti, this is just suicide, you try to pick him off or force him to use a bad ulti to survive before you make your move.
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On August 27 2014 00:32 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 00:23 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2014 00:16 Acritter wrote:On August 27 2014 00:08 TheYango wrote:On August 26 2014 22:59 Acritter wrote:
To be perfectly honest, max Upheaval Warlock seems crazy strong if you have a team that can somewhat support it. The critical piece of the puzzle is your teammates. You need to have heroes that can really benefit from the honestly crazy zone control that the spell provides. Sniper comes to mind, for example, as does Lifestealer. Enigma has some potential too, but I personally wouldn't pick him because it gives your team zero early game. Hell, Dark Seer seems like he'd be amazing, with his Vac+Wall just doing obscene amounts of damage, and same with Disruptor. I wouldn't pick Warlock out of the blue, or with heroes like Void and Bloodseeker, but in the right lineup I can see him being crazy strong. The thing is, because of the way Upheaval works as a spell (slow % is dependent on channel time, not on time in the AoE), you don't need to max it out that fast. At low levels, almost all heroes are going to have only 300-350 MS, so they will reach minimum MS at ~65-70% slow. After the initial buildup, the spell's slow % stays the same for the rest of the duration. While going from rank 1 to rank 2, this changes the time needed for the slow to reach minimum MS from 10s to 5, going from rank 2-3 the difference is only 5s to 4s. I think Upheaval is a fantastic skill, but the incremental gain of the 3rd and 4th ranks isn't that high until there are heroes with higher MS in the game. If you're playing as a support role, then you're not getting to level 7 before the other team has finished Phase Boots and Drums. Wait, the other team has supports too, so someone has brown boots over there too. And if you get off a couple seconds of channel, it will still slow them down enough. Orb of venom only has a 12% slow, which level 1 upheaval gets after 1 second of channeling. The carry is going to care, even with phase boosts and drums. OoV is something you do while doing something else. Namely, attacking. Comparing it to a spell is silly. Higher levels in Upheaval mean that you can instantly put major control onto the fight that can't be stopped just by stunning you. If they do stun you out of it, it's still a significant slow, and they've used one of their most valuable spells on an otherwise kind of irrelevant support.
It also has a blink dagger's range, so its likely something you do when you can't auto attack and won't be able to catch the target, so you drop upheaval to either zone out enemy players trying to help or slow down your teams target.
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On August 27 2014 00:35 idonthinksobro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 00:32 Plansix wrote:Once I am channeling upheaval, I have dumped all my spells as warlock and I won't be able to cast them against until the full channel ends, if not beyond that. If they want to blow a stun on me just to stop, upheaval, great. Also its has the range of a full blink dagger. Also, we can assume both sides have teams doing stuff. On August 27 2014 00:30 teddyoojo wrote:
upheavel is a very good spell but ever since they made warlock dot the best spell in dota its stupid to not go that I don't think anyone is arguing getting it over maxing the Dot. actually the whole thing started becasue of the slahser video where he suggests a skill build of 1-1-4-1
No its all started when I said someone could put a value point in the skill and you said there was no such thing as a value point in upheaval.(looking at it, 2 value points might be better before going back to bonds). I never said you shouldn't get the dot first.
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On August 27 2014 00:38 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 00:35 idonthinksobro wrote:On August 27 2014 00:32 Plansix wrote:Once I am channeling upheaval, I have dumped all my spells as warlock and I won't be able to cast them against until the full channel ends, if not beyond that. If they want to blow a stun on me just to stop, upheaval, great. Also its has the range of a full blink dagger. Also, we can assume both sides have teams doing stuff. On August 27 2014 00:30 teddyoojo wrote:
upheavel is a very good spell but ever since they made warlock dot the best spell in dota its stupid to not go that I don't think anyone is arguing getting it over maxing the Dot. actually the whole thing started becasue of the slahser video where he suggests a skill build of 1-1-4-1 No its all started when I said someone could put a value point in the skill and you said there was no such thing as a value point in upheaval.(looking at it, 2 value points might be better before going back to bonds). I never said you shouldn't get the dot first.
no it started a couple of pages before that, it just got reheated later.
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On August 27 2014 00:34 Mensol wrote:
Meracle playing WR on his stream, im happy.
He is raping as expected, easily the best WR i've ever watched.
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On August 27 2014 00:37 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 00:32 Acritter wrote:On August 27 2014 00:23 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2014 00:16 Acritter wrote:On August 27 2014 00:08 TheYango wrote:On August 26 2014 22:59 Acritter wrote:
To be perfectly honest, max Upheaval Warlock seems crazy strong if you have a team that can somewhat support it. The critical piece of the puzzle is your teammates. You need to have heroes that can really benefit from the honestly crazy zone control that the spell provides. Sniper comes to mind, for example, as does Lifestealer. Enigma has some potential too, but I personally wouldn't pick him because it gives your team zero early game. Hell, Dark Seer seems like he'd be amazing, with his Vac+Wall just doing obscene amounts of damage, and same with Disruptor. I wouldn't pick Warlock out of the blue, or with heroes like Void and Bloodseeker, but in the right lineup I can see him being crazy strong. The thing is, because of the way Upheaval works as a spell (slow % is dependent on channel time, not on time in the AoE), you don't need to max it out that fast. At low levels, almost all heroes are going to have only 300-350 MS, so they will reach minimum MS at ~65-70% slow. After the initial buildup, the spell's slow % stays the same for the rest of the duration. While going from rank 1 to rank 2, this changes the time needed for the slow to reach minimum MS from 10s to 5, going from rank 2-3 the difference is only 5s to 4s. I think Upheaval is a fantastic skill, but the incremental gain of the 3rd and 4th ranks isn't that high until there are heroes with higher MS in the game. If you're playing as a support role, then you're not getting to level 7 before the other team has finished Phase Boots and Drums. Wait, the other team has supports too, so someone has brown boots over there too. And if you get off a couple seconds of channel, it will still slow them down enough. Orb of venom only has a 12% slow, which level 1 upheaval gets after 1 second of channeling. The carry is going to care, even with phase boosts and drums. OoV is something you do while doing something else. Namely, attacking. Comparing it to a spell is silly. Higher levels in Upheaval mean that you can instantly put major control onto the fight that can't be stopped just by stunning you. If they do stun you out of it, it's still a significant slow, and they've used one of their most valuable spells on an otherwise kind of irrelevant support. It also has a blink dagger's range, so its likely something you do when you can't auto attack and won't be able to catch the target, so you drop upheaval to either zone out enemy players trying to help or slow down your teams target.
What? No. Your slow's worth far more than your shitty autoattacks. Your slow will let your allies get off many, many more autoattacks. What are you even thinking?
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On August 27 2014 00:40 idonthinksobro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 00:38 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2014 00:35 idonthinksobro wrote:On August 27 2014 00:32 Plansix wrote:Once I am channeling upheaval, I have dumped all my spells as warlock and I won't be able to cast them against until the full channel ends, if not beyond that. If they want to blow a stun on me just to stop, upheaval, great. Also its has the range of a full blink dagger. Also, we can assume both sides have teams doing stuff. On August 27 2014 00:30 teddyoojo wrote:
upheavel is a very good spell but ever since they made warlock dot the best spell in dota its stupid to not go that I don't think anyone is arguing getting it over maxing the Dot. actually the whole thing started becasue of the slahser video where he suggests a skill build of 1-1-4-1 No its all started when I said someone could put a value point in the skill and you said there was no such thing as a value point in upheaval.(looking at it, 2 value points might be better before going back to bonds). I never said you shouldn't get the dot first. no it started a couple of pages before that, it just got reheated later.
Yeah, well his build is stupid and you should always max the dot/heal. But there are valid reasons not to max bond and get a couple points in upheaval as necessary.
On August 27 2014 00:41 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 00:37 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2014 00:32 Acritter wrote:On August 27 2014 00:23 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2014 00:16 Acritter wrote:On August 27 2014 00:08 TheYango wrote:On August 26 2014 22:59 Acritter wrote:
To be perfectly honest, max Upheaval Warlock seems crazy strong if you have a team that can somewhat support it. The critical piece of the puzzle is your teammates. You need to have heroes that can really benefit from the honestly crazy zone control that the spell provides. Sniper comes to mind, for example, as does Lifestealer. Enigma has some potential too, but I personally wouldn't pick him because it gives your team zero early game. Hell, Dark Seer seems like he'd be amazing, with his Vac+Wall just doing obscene amounts of damage, and same with Disruptor. I wouldn't pick Warlock out of the blue, or with heroes like Void and Bloodseeker, but in the right lineup I can see him being crazy strong. The thing is, because of the way Upheaval works as a spell (slow % is dependent on channel time, not on time in the AoE), you don't need to max it out that fast. At low levels, almost all heroes are going to have only 300-350 MS, so they will reach minimum MS at ~65-70% slow. After the initial buildup, the spell's slow % stays the same for the rest of the duration. While going from rank 1 to rank 2, this changes the time needed for the slow to reach minimum MS from 10s to 5, going from rank 2-3 the difference is only 5s to 4s. I think Upheaval is a fantastic skill, but the incremental gain of the 3rd and 4th ranks isn't that high until there are heroes with higher MS in the game. If you're playing as a support role, then you're not getting to level 7 before the other team has finished Phase Boots and Drums. Wait, the other team has supports too, so someone has brown boots over there too. And if you get off a couple seconds of channel, it will still slow them down enough. Orb of venom only has a 12% slow, which level 1 upheaval gets after 1 second of channeling. The carry is going to care, even with phase boosts and drums. OoV is something you do while doing something else. Namely, attacking. Comparing it to a spell is silly. Higher levels in Upheaval mean that you can instantly put major control onto the fight that can't be stopped just by stunning you. If they do stun you out of it, it's still a significant slow, and they've used one of their most valuable spells on an otherwise kind of irrelevant support. It also has a blink dagger's range, so its likely something you do when you can't auto attack and won't be able to catch the target, so you drop upheaval to either zone out enemy players trying to help or slow down your teams target. What? No. Your slow's worth far more than your shitty autoattacks. Your slow will let your allies get off many, many more autoattacks. What are you even thinking?
Yeah, likely. Still at level 7, you damage might still be significant to still matter, but your likely better off just dropping the slow.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On August 27 2014 00:31 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2014 23:56 Plansix wrote:On August 26 2014 23:50 Targe wrote:On August 26 2014 23:49 lprk wrote:On August 26 2014 23:09 goody153 wrote:On August 26 2014 22:05 TyrionSC2 wrote:
728 pages till next CM tip! HYPE ! and wow rabbit for $130K .. how much are other chinese players paid ? 130k seems a lot "Currently there are five top-tier teams in China, with players in these teams earning around 500,000 yuan annually, a couple even twice that." Xuntao currently belongs to a top-eight team, HGT. Having played pro for two years, Xuntao reveals his salary is now about 200,000 yuan. wow 500k yuan is 50 grand a year 50K is very passable for a high level player as long as he does't have to cover travel or anything like that. I like this system better than the Korea system of paying everyone nothing until they make it big. he's using GBP, it's ~$82,000 USD which is pretty damn nice for playing video games in China. I think the average Chinese salary is like $4,000 USD a year. Though not sure how meaningful that 'average' is in China where the income gap is wider than Michael Strahans teeth.
50 grand is pretty good playing video games anywhere D
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On August 27 2014 00:46 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 00:31 crms wrote:On August 26 2014 23:56 Plansix wrote:On August 26 2014 23:50 Targe wrote:On August 26 2014 23:49 lprk wrote:On August 26 2014 23:09 goody153 wrote:On August 26 2014 22:05 TyrionSC2 wrote:
728 pages till next CM tip! HYPE ! and wow rabbit for $130K .. how much are other chinese players paid ? 130k seems a lot "Currently there are five top-tier teams in China, with players in these teams earning around 500,000 yuan annually, a couple even twice that." Xuntao currently belongs to a top-eight team, HGT. Having played pro for two years, Xuntao reveals his salary is now about 200,000 yuan. wow 500k yuan is 50 grand a year 50K is very passable for a high level player as long as he does't have to cover travel or anything like that. I like this system better than the Korea system of paying everyone nothing until they make it big. he's using GBP, it's ~$82,000 USD which is pretty damn nice for playing video games in China. I think the average Chinese salary is like $4,000 USD a year. Though not sure how meaningful that 'average' is in China where the income gap is wider than Michael Strahans teeth. 50 grand is pretty good playing video games anywhere D
yeah but you keep using monkey currency so I wanted to clarify for everyone.
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On August 27 2014 00:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 00:40 idonthinksobro wrote:On August 27 2014 00:38 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2014 00:35 idonthinksobro wrote:On August 27 2014 00:32 Plansix wrote:Once I am channeling upheaval, I have dumped all my spells as warlock and I won't be able to cast them against until the full channel ends, if not beyond that. If they want to blow a stun on me just to stop, upheaval, great. Also its has the range of a full blink dagger. Also, we can assume both sides have teams doing stuff. On August 27 2014 00:30 teddyoojo wrote:
upheavel is a very good spell but ever since they made warlock dot the best spell in dota its stupid to not go that I don't think anyone is arguing getting it over maxing the Dot. actually the whole thing started becasue of the slahser video where he suggests a skill build of 1-1-4-1 No its all started when I said someone could put a value point in the skill and you said there was no such thing as a value point in upheaval.(looking at it, 2 value points might be better before going back to bonds). I never said you shouldn't get the dot first. no it started a couple of pages before that, it just got reheated later. Yeah, well his build is stupid and you should always max the dot/heal. But there are valid reasons not to max bond and get a couple points in upheaval as necessary. Show nested quote +On August 27 2014 00:41 Acritter wrote:On August 27 2014 00:37 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2014 00:32 Acritter wrote:On August 27 2014 00:23 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2014 00:16 Acritter wrote:On August 27 2014 00:08 TheYango wrote:On August 26 2014 22:59 Acritter wrote:
To be perfectly honest, max Upheaval Warlock seems crazy strong if you have a team that can somewhat support it. The critical piece of the puzzle is your teammates. You need to have heroes that can really benefit from the honestly crazy zone control that the spell provides. Sniper comes to mind, for example, as does Lifestealer. Enigma has some potential too, but I personally wouldn't pick him because it gives your team zero early game. Hell, Dark Seer seems like he'd be amazing, with his Vac+Wall just doing obscene amounts of damage, and same with Disruptor. I wouldn't pick Warlock out of the blue, or with heroes like Void and Bloodseeker, but in the right lineup I can see him being crazy strong. The thing is, because of the way Upheaval works as a spell (slow % is dependent on channel time, not on time in the AoE), you don't need to max it out that fast. At low levels, almost all heroes are going to have only 300-350 MS, so they will reach minimum MS at ~65-70% slow. After the initial buildup, the spell's slow % stays the same for the rest of the duration. While going from rank 1 to rank 2, this changes the time needed for the slow to reach minimum MS from 10s to 5, going from rank 2-3 the difference is only 5s to 4s. I think Upheaval is a fantastic skill, but the incremental gain of the 3rd and 4th ranks isn't that high until there are heroes with higher MS in the game. If you're playing as a support role, then you're not getting to level 7 before the other team has finished Phase Boots and Drums. Wait, the other team has supports too, so someone has brown boots over there too. And if you get off a couple seconds of channel, it will still slow them down enough. Orb of venom only has a 12% slow, which level 1 upheaval gets after 1 second of channeling. The carry is going to care, even with phase boosts and drums. OoV is something you do while doing something else. Namely, attacking. Comparing it to a spell is silly. Higher levels in Upheaval mean that you can instantly put major control onto the fight that can't be stopped just by stunning you. If they do stun you out of it, it's still a significant slow, and they've used one of their most valuable spells on an otherwise kind of irrelevant support. It also has a blink dagger's range, so its likely something you do when you can't auto attack and won't be able to catch the target, so you drop upheaval to either zone out enemy players trying to help or slow down your teams target. What? No. Your slow's worth far more than your shitty autoattacks. Your slow will let your allies get off many, many more autoattacks. What are you even thinking? Yeah, likely. Still at level 7, you damage might still be significant to still matter, but your likely better off just dropping the slow.
Your damage will be even less significant at 7. The heroes that matter will scale in defense far faster than you scale in offense (outside of your imbarocks). The only time I could even be close to saying "okay, yeah, you should autoattack here" is level 1, and then you should probably have Word instead, making the slow not even relevant.
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casters that cast games on shitty streaming platforms ruin dota - one game at a time...
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We are going to need more details, otherwise you are just stating factual information about life in general.
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On August 27 2014 01:44 Plansix wrote:
We are going to need more details, otherwise you are just stating factual information about life in general.
megafon tournament on seemeplay.ru is literally unwatchable, there are like 20 reddit threads about it.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IFhqfSM.png)
Chappy is now Team Tinker manager.... I guess TTinker is confirmed for project RED?
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Tebellong44238 Posts
That's old, also ChappY is no longer affiliated with Complexity afaik (see his name being @chappYcast).
But yes it could still be the case.
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Patch comes out today boys ! Im getting ready
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EPT
