EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 413
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 19 2012 17:14 SirMilford wrote: How exactly are you meant to build brewmaster? Skills: Max Clap by 7, with 1 point in Brawler and Stats before 6. Finish Clap first, possibly with a couple more points in stats. Level Brawler and Haze when you feel you start needing them. Bottle is good early for both mid or sidelane. First major core item is usually Blink Dagger, though Phases+Bracer/Janggo is easier to buy if you have a rough early game. Boots don't have to be Phases even though they're most common--Treads and Arcanes are both OK depending on what you need in a given game. After Blink, options are generally either Aghanim's or aura items--Janggo, Vlad's, and Cuirass (Panda's ult Pandas don't benefit from item stats, but do benefit from Agh's and auras). On April 19 2012 17:30 NB wrote: build him like sylla basicly: boot vanguard dagger No point getting Vanguard on Panda. You need both HP and mana early-game, so you may as well get Bottle for your regen rather than RoH (especially if you're mid, but even if you're sidelane you should Bottle-Crow). If you've got regen covered with Bottle, there's very little reason to get Vanguard over Janggo, especially since Janggo aura affects your ult Pandas. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34505 Posts
On April 19 2012 17:21 Steveling wrote: PANDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Fuck yeah, when are the main servers getting the pandaren update? Is it today? Make it be today, Q_Q. Patches are usually on the test servers for a week before they are put on main servers. | ||
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ChrisXIV
Austria3553 Posts
On April 19 2012 17:45 Firebolt145 wrote: Patches are usually on the test servers for a week before they are put on main servers. They changed that a few weeks ago, now it's 1 day. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34505 Posts
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hideo
Canada1641 Posts
On April 19 2012 17:14 SirMilford wrote: How exactly are you meant to build brewmaster? Core: Phase boots, magic stick, bottle, blink, aghanim's Luxury/optional: drums, vlad's, AC, shiva's, sheepstick, necrobook | ||
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
On April 19 2012 17:49 Firebolt145 wrote: Oh? I thought that was a one time thing. No, they mentioned that they changed their update schedule, now it's always Wednesday for Test, and Thursday for main. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On April 19 2012 18:01 hideo wrote: Core: Phase boots, magic stick, bottle, blink, aghanim's Luxury/optional: drums, vlad's, AC, shiva's, sheepstick, necrobook drums should be under core and agha under luxury, havent seen many dota1 games where panda went agha | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 19 2012 18:28 cilinder007 wrote: drums should be under core and agha under luxury, havent seen many dota1 games where panda went agha Agha is lower priority in competitive games, but higher priority in pubs. The aura items are generally stronger in advancing your team's strength, but Aghanim's is an enormous boost to your individual fighting power. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34505 Posts
But while we're discussing drums...why do I never see pro players actually pop them? It's amazing, a +10% speed boost and attack speed to allies in the area. I also feel paying 750g for 4 more charges on that thing is way too overpriced, which is a pity. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 19 2012 18:44 Firebolt145 wrote: Yeah drums is a pretty obvious core item on Panda. But while we're discussing drums...why do I never see pro players actually pop them? It's amazing, a +10% speed boost and attack speed to allies in the area. I also feel paying 750g for 4 more charges on that thing is way too overpriced, which is a pity. Probably because a lot of Western teams only get 1 set, so they play really stingy with their charges. Most Chinese teams pop Janggo pretty much every fight after they have them. The thing is, they tend to end up with way more sets of Janggoes than Western teams (you'll see a semicarry get a set early on, and other semicarries/supports will finish them later as the earlier Janggoes run out of charges). The cost of re-charging Janggo is too high--there's something wrong when teams consider it to be more cost-effective to buy more Janggoes than to pay for charges on existing ones. At the same time, the item itself is already absurdly cost-effective. Realistically, you'd have to do something like reduce the recipe cost, but add Boots of Elvenskin to the recipe so the total cost is the same. | ||
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
On April 19 2012 18:44 Firebolt145 wrote: Yeah drums is a pretty obvious core item on Panda. But while we're discussing drums...why do I never see pro players actually pop them? It's amazing, a +10% speed boost and attack speed to allies in the area. I also feel paying 750g for 4 more charges on that thing is way too overpriced, which is a pity. isn't it 3 charges for a recharge? | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 19 2012 13:07 NB wrote: tbh, i just wana see a single dota2 game where people use sylla correctly and so far no team had show that. As puppey said: its a powerful hero and teams are keeping their aces in pocket for major LAN. what mTw is doing will soon backstab them later on and the other teams should learn into that. The fact that they lost to an obvious quad lane game today simply means they are buying too much into the basic dota2 meta game but forgot some of the dota1 textbook strat. My current top teams still gona be Navi and EG with a slight hint of M5 but thats about it. Big prop to synd for entertaining fans though. I don't know how you put EG as a top team when they don't even have a proper roster these days and haven't won anything lately ;(. | ||
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Tryhat
160 Posts
Okay if you like drums, but I don't understand how it in any way is a vanguard replacement. I've seen it suggested on ranged heroes instead of vanguard as well. Can someone explain? | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
therefore it is better | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 19 2012 19:06 Tryhat wrote: I never understood why people suggest drums instead of vanguard. They're nothing alike. Items that are better and cheaper than drums for survivability: Ogre club, PMS (likely), Vitality Booster, any Armor+Magic Res combo. Then there are things like Ultimate Orb, Sange, Heaven's Halberd, etc. Also, if you a buy a vit booster or ogre club or something like that you can upgrade it into an actual late game item, instead of just wasting a slot like you are with drums. Okay if you like drums, but I don't understand how it in any way is a vanguard replacement. I've seen it suggested on ranged heroes instead of vanguard as well. Can someone explain? You don't buy Drums for just generic survivability. You buy Drum's for early teamfighting power. Which is what many of those heroes want, and what many people bough pre-nerf Vanguard for (e.g. back when ranged Vanguard was still absurd). Janggo doesn't replace the exact functionality, but it fills the implicit purpose that many people often are accustomed to getting Vanguard for. The only other item in the game that gives a comparable mix of both self fighting stats AND team benefit at that stage of the game is Mekansm, and Mek is both mana-intensive to use, and is worthless in multiples. In the case of Panda, you're not interested in a straight survivability item--so long as your ultimate is up, surviving a fight isn't your problem. What you want is a teamfighting item that advances your up-front fighting power, both inside your Ultimate and out, and that's what Janggo accomplishes. If you want straight survivability items, you should obviously buy straight survivability items. Janggo gives one of the most well-rounded mix of self- and team- teamfighting stats for it's cost. Most of the ranged heroes that you see people suggest it on are semicarries that want that kind of teamfighting power at that stage of the game. | ||
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
On April 19 2012 19:06 Tryhat wrote: I never understood why people suggest drums instead of vanguard. They're nothing alike. Items that are better and cheaper than drums for survivability: Ogre club, PMS (likely), Vitality Booster, any Armor+Magic Res combo. Then there are things like Ultimate Orb, Sange, Heaven's Halberd, etc. Also, if you a buy a vit booster or ogre club or something like that you can upgrade it into an actual late game item, instead of just wasting a slot like you are with drums. Okay if you like drums, but I don't understand how it in any way is a vanguard replacement. I've seen it suggested on ranged heroes instead of vanguard as well. Can someone explain? Time is also a resource. The faster you move the less time you waste, the more stuff you can do. | ||
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 19 2012 19:19 Benjef wrote: What about bkb on Panda after the Core (boots, wand, drums and dagger). You shouldn't need it. Again, the majority of your teamfighting on Panda will be done during your ultimate. Item actives don't do anything during your ultimate. If teamfights are drawing out long enough that you're actually popping out of your ultimate before it's over, Aghanim's will be more useful than BKB. They're similarly costed, Agh's gives better stats, and extending your ultimate's duration by 7 seconds while also reducing the cooldown and making all 3 Elemental Pandas stronger is probably more useful to you than Magic Immunity outside of your Primal Split. | ||
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