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On April 17 2012 12:04 frucisky wrote:
Agreed ^^. SS can nuke, push, has more disables. my main issue with her spells are that 2 of em are useless. aura is useful early laning phase and more or less null after arcane.
SS also usually ends up dying cuz he CC but gets nuked down early. but he contributes so much more to teamfights
plus if SS gets farm he can do more, CM is q useless with or without farm.
I also love Ether Shock; laning as SS just feels nice, and can make quick work of the creeps. But man, using shackle and ult can be so strong as well. I love getting off the ult prison. I do think the main difference is CM has more potential is assisting in a kill with damage output while SS has more assist kill since can CC and disable.
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CM is/was most powerful when you have tri-lane vs tri-lane, where her nova can be used against all 3 heroes on the lane because of it's large aoe. Even not in that situation though, she's still the complete package. Sure VS has a longer stun, and Veno has a longer slow, but CM is unique in having 2 abilities to give you more time on the target while *also* doing significant dps, and having those abilities on short enough cooldowns that they can be used multiple times in a single gank.
I know we have a whole thread on this topic, but the way I look at it, if you're looking for push/counter-push from your support you get veno, if you're especially interested in buffing a physical dps or need swap to interrupt something you get venge, and otherwise you get CM.
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Thoughts on getting CM's ultimate? Is it ever worth it?
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1 lv for the slow might be helpful after u maxed the first 3 skills. The main point of CM ulti is like axe bershek call: forcing the enemy to waste time killing you first.
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On April 17 2012 13:00 Skullflower wrote:
Thoughts on getting CM's ultimate? Is it ever worth it?
yes and no. you get it to force spells/attacks on you since it deals a decent amount of damage
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On April 17 2012 13:00 Skullflower wrote:
Thoughts on getting CM's ultimate? Is it ever worth it?
get it at lv 6 to troll people with pro juking skills + infinite dps ult imo
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Any idea why Riki is never picked in dota1 yet is a top pick in dota2 atm? while DK is a top pick in dota1 and rarely seen in dota2?
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If you are smart about using CM ult you can do a lot with the slow and having the enemy team waste time on you. If you are lucky it will do a lot of damage. If you are a baller you will use it on heroes that can't escape or when you are in fog/untarget-able and lol as it ruins someone's day.
I also don't get people comparing SS to CM. SS is way better solo mid than as support and isn't particularly strong when he doesn't get a fast 6 or items like blink/bkb in a timely manner. CM is like the opposite where she is one of the best heroes without items and is one of the strongest heroes in a trilane situation.
Edit: @above post, I think it is a flavor of the month thing. After am started doing significantly worse and leaving the ban phase teams seemed to like riki who can hit his stride earlier on towards midgame with fewer item needs and can additionally force the enemy team to invest in invis counters and worry about him almost as much as they would worry about nature's prophet.
I have seen him get shut down as well because he still needs to farm and not gank for a while so teams kind of ignore him and destroy his team while he can't help as he is very squishy. The worst I've seen him do is against teams with high burst and some good push as it means his small aoe smoke early on just won't protect him from one or two heroes that will nuke him to death from outside the smoke if he does decide to show up.
As for DK, idk why he isn't picked up. I think he is really strong and he was getting picked for a couple of weeks, but I think people just forgot about him.
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On April 17 2012 13:47 rob.au wrote:
Any idea why Riki is never picked in dota1 yet is a top pick in dota2 atm? while DK is a top pick in dota1 and rarely seen in dota2?
trendy meta
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
CM is an amazing babysitter support lol, and once you get that arcane boots, you can just nuke the hell out of your lane
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Does anyone know what mIRC channels to go for scrims or teams looking for ringers and team recruitment? I'm so sick of MM and having sub-par trolls attempting to destroy the very game I like to play.
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DK was picked all the time just a month or two ago in dota 2.
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On the topic of CM, I was playing her today and realized that she doesn't sit through her backswing after casting a spell...if you cast frostbite she immediately starts auto attacking as soon as the relevant part of her cast animation has finished...things don't even have to be in range, if an enemy unit is in the attack radar she will start running to them straight after casting her spell...no input from you required
In DotA1 you had to move after casting the spell or hit stop otherwise it would sit through the entire back swing before attacking.
It is the case for every hero in DotA2...you think about Storm Spirit who has 0.5second backswing on his spells, in DotA1 you had to move after each one otherwise it would take to long to do damage but in DotA2 he starts attacking RIGHT after every spell, it makes him a lot stronger really.
And a hero like Rikimaru, in DotA1 he would stand still for 0.5seconds after blink striking but in DotA2 he just starts attacking the moment he blink strikes...same for Anti mage, the moment he blinks he will start attacking you if you are in range or start running to you if you are in his attack radius, in DotA1 you had to move otherwise after blinking you didn't start attacking or moving on its own until his backswing finished
QOP is even bigger, she had like a 1.0second backswing...but now your attack triggers right after the spelll..what is the point?
Not that I find anything wrong with it actually, but it just makes casting backswings irrelevant
The more I think about the more I want heroes like Magnatuar in the game now, that guy had like a 0.6second backswing but now you can Blink Reverse Polairty Shockwave and attack without moving or sitting through backswing...that is huge for a hero like him!
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United States47024 Posts
On April 17 2012 13:58 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 13:47 rob.au wrote:
Any idea why Riki is never picked in dota1 yet is a top pick in dota2 atm? while DK is a top pick in dota1 and rarely seen in dota2? trendy meta
Pretty much this.
DK has been high priority ban/pick in China/SEA games.
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On April 17 2012 13:47 rob.au wrote:
Any idea why Riki is never picked in dota1 yet is a top pick in dota2 atm? while DK is a top pick in dota1 and rarely seen in dota2?
Riki was picked in Dota1 a really far time back for a very brief period of time, but the Chinese hard countered it with bounty hunter. No idea why nobody's picking BH now.
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BH is picked once in a while, defnitely seen him in competitive matches situationally (against riki too).
QoP has a pretty decent attack animation too, definitely doesn't feel like a 1.0 second backswing (1.0 seconds is pretty crazy). Plus her projectile speed is faster than almost everyone aside from sniper.
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i recently realized that BH is more squishy than a clinkz in teamfight -_-...damn clinkz is tanky :-/
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
cus clinkz has ult + ww which allows him to gtfo asap? :p
but why BH > slardar against riki?
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On April 17 2012 15:32 Zlasher wrote:
BH is picked once in a while, defnitely seen him in competitive matches situationally (against riki too).
QoP has a pretty decent attack animation too, definitely doesn't feel like a 1.0 second backswing (1.0 seconds is pretty crazy). Plus her projectile speed is faster than almost everyone aside from sniper.
It's 1.0second backswing on her cast animation, if you cast a spell in the open she will do 1.0second animation after casting a spell, but if you are in attack range of an enemy unit she will ignore the backswing and start attacking or running towards something to attack...
In DotA1 if you didn't move/stop/cast another spell she would sit through the entire 1.0second backswing before doing anything else
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0 farm supports are going to be more along the line of WD, CM, VS, Jakiro, AA (when run as support) than an SS. These are all heroes who have long range spells (safe to cast) or a lot of utility from their skillset (thinking of VS swap and Jakiro liquid fire here). CM's strength comes from the length of frostbite at level 1 combined with nova. At level 2 she's gonna add more damage than pretty much any other hero. (Short of insanely lucky WD bounces). Frostbite is a 1.5 second 70 dps freeze at leve 1... at level 4 it's a 3 second 70 dps freeze.
SS can't really be played with no farm because of the short range of his abilities and underleveled rhasta wards are just a free creep wave in gold bounty. If you want a hero with that level of disable but don't want to devote a lane to them most are going to pick an ES, Tide, or Lion (lion was waay more popular in hon than he is in dota - but his stun in hon was a lot easier to land).
On April 17 2012 15:42 konadora wrote:
cus clinkz has ult + ww which allows him to gtfo asap? :p
but why BH > slardar against riki?
Bh lets your entire team move faster against him, gives a bit of -armor and gives gold. It's a stronger utility ult than Slardar. Also slardar generally has to get farm in a trilane or dual lane to be useful while BH is played solo long lane a lot.
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EPT
