General Discussion - Page 316

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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.

cilinder007

Slovenia7251 Posts

April 01 2012 19:27 GMT

#6301

I dont get it why people say clinkz is too squishy, he has almost as much hp as kunkka with his ult and he has max ms and invis, he's one of the hardest heros to kill in the game imo

Netherlands12045 Posts

April 01 2012 19:27 GMT

#6302

eg lost to clinkz kunka... thats fucking embarassing

dragonborn

4781 Posts

April 01 2012 19:28 GMT

#6303

EG is playing so bad without MiSeRy.

zeru

8156 Posts

April 01 2012 19:29 GMT

#6304

--- Nuked ---

Ack1027

United States7873 Posts

April 01 2012 19:36 GMT

#6305

1. Anyone can lose to anyone, especially right now in dota 2.
2. Clinkz isn't too squishy, he has other problems.
3. Winning the game doesn't mean you didn't make mistakes however small. Like lothars on kunkka instead of another item.
4. Misery better carry than fear....lol someone started watching comp dota very recently.

Alur

Denmark3900 Posts

April 01 2012 19:37 GMT

#6306

On April 02 2012 02:33 Hoban wrote:
Ok I am doing it. 50 games with Invoker. I will figure this guy out. First realization is that I am such a terrible mid player.

I did something like 18 straight Invoker games a little while back, now I actually feel fairly competent with him - GLHF.

zeru

8156 Posts

April 01 2012 20:04 GMT

#6307

--- Nuked ---

Zlasher

United States9129 Posts

April 01 2012 20:08 GMT

#6308

On April 01 2012 22:37 Shikyo wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm very sorry but that'd be Pajkatt.

They play different roles anyways. Dendi is a solo mid, Pajkatt is a hard carry player who's comparative role player on Navi would be XBOCT. In terms of individual skill and plays though I would put Dendi and even SexyBamboe over Pajkatt. Bamboe just suffers from much worse teammates than Pajkatt let alone Dendi and the teamwork that Navi has.

Netherlands12045 Posts

April 01 2012 20:53 GMT

#6309

could anyone tell me if the new crocodile hero in the client is legit or just april fool?

Yoshi-

Germany10227 Posts

April 01 2012 20:55 GMT

#6310

Quite easy to check.
Is it made by dotacinema?
if so bullshit since they can't do anything right.
Even the joindota hero seems more legit.

dragonborn

4781 Posts

April 01 2012 20:56 GMT

#6311

so what is most standart build for invoker?

quas, wax, exort?

i did play like 3-4 years ago with invoker, i dont remember builds...

cilinder007

Slovenia7251 Posts

April 01 2012 20:59 GMT

#6312

I dont think bamboe suffers from bad teammates, they are all very good individualy in mouz but their teamwork is drawing penises on the minimap and insulting ench other :D

St.Velten

Germany222 Posts

April 01 2012 21:05 GMT

#6313

On April 02 2012 04:27 NB wrote:
eg lost to clinkz kunka... thats fucking embarassing

Clg also lost to a similar bone strategy earlier on this day. Blame it on strange hero assignment or whatever, in my eyes he is a very viable last pick. Eg and Clg picked a momentarily common lineup that is build around Sa which was seen quiet alot in the last weeks. However it seems to be not as viable against bone as it is vs am. But it looks like no one knows how to play against bone yet or everyone is largly underestimateting how strong he can be.

VoDs of both games can be found here 0.15 - 1.06 and 3:40 - end

DTS vs CLG :
+ Show Spoiler +

DTS Bans:

CLG Bans:

DTS Picks:

CLG Picks:

DTS vs EG
+ Show Spoiler +

DTS Bans:

EG Bans:

DTS Picks:

EG Picks:

Gheizen64

Italy2077 Posts

April 01 2012 21:08 GMT

#6314

Clinkz and Kunkka are both pretty strong heroes in 6.74c. Clinkz is drugs, dunno why he isn't picked more often, he has a weak midgame but he eat towers for breakfast + nice mobility + huge damage.
Kunkka was buffed in 10 differents ways last 2 version, bigger stun on ulti, lower cd, longer rum effect, lower cd on tidebringer, bigger aoe on torrent, better slow, shorter cd on Xmts, he's legit now.
You don't see them both often because version just changed, give it a bit of time. In Dota1 Kunkka is now used even with all the pool available.

Zlasher

United States9129 Posts

April 01 2012 21:16 GMT

#6315

On April 02 2012 05:59 cilinder007 wrote:
I dont think bamboe suffers from bad teammates, they are all very good individualy in mouz but their teamwork is drawing penises on the minimap and insulting ench other :D

Mouz's other 4 are not even close to the individual skill level of Bamboe, and their teamwork is not on par with Na'vi, or even CLG. I've never said "wow" to any plays that mouz makes except when its Bamboe, usually with WR making double shackles with insanely high accuracy

Hoban

United States1600 Posts

April 01 2012 21:24 GMT

#6316

On April 02 2012 05:56 dragonborn wrote:
so what is most standart build for invoker?

quas, wax, exort?

i did play like 3-4 years ago with invoker, i dont remember builds...

Well there seems to be two main invoker builds and the one you choose depends on team lineup. The first is Wex/Quas where Wex is maxed first with points in Quas. This build is basically a CC monster, being able to coldsnap, tornado, and deafening blast a team into oblivion. Also, EMP is extremely strong. When going for CC I have been trying Quas>Wex as the Quas points scale better in terms of CC and it seems to be nice. Downside is you really really need a team to follow up with more damage. The other build I like and that I see often is Exort/Quas. The key with this build is getting forge spirits. Once you have 4/4 Quas/Exort, you get 2 forge spirits which allow you to farm and destroy people/towers. Cold Snap + Forge spirits is very deadly 1v1 and for teamfights you bring shitloads of damage. You need some reliable CC/initiators to get off good meteors and ice walls but those spells absolutely ruin teamfights. You also much much more vulnerable to ganking due to no levels in wex for a long time (no invis and really slow movement speed). As far as items go, it is basically whatever fits the match. Try to grab Aghas about the time you hit lvl 17. A Bkb Aghas invoker can completely dominate a teamfight.

If you are just trying him out here is what I reccomend:
Q/R/Q/W level W>Q get E around lvl 11 or 13
Items: Start Claw+tangoes
Phase boots, Drums, Euls (or void stone + Bkb if they are CC heavy), Aghas
Early game: Gank with Cold Snap and tornado only if you need to get into position. Cold snap also dominates in lane. If you can get your opponent to get creep aggro then you cold snap it is huge damage.
Mid Game: you are very mobile so try to be ganking a lot. Delay pushes with Tornado+emp (or hit them under the tower with it). Job in teamfight is to Tornado to set up, deafening blast as many people as possible, coldsnap the biggest threat.Maybe an EMP if people arent moving much.
Late game: stay with your team. use every single spell ever in a team fight. this is the hardest part of invoker tbh. Once you have lvl 17 + aghas you have near-unlimited potential. It takes a huge amount of practice but basically:
Zone control- EMP, Deafening Blast, Ice Wall
CC- Tornado, Cold Snap
DPS- Forge Spirits, Meteor, Alacrity, sunstrike
This is your priority list of stuff to do in a fight. Your exort spells really dont do too much damage so if you have to cut something, cut the meteor and sunstrike.

Hope this helps. There are tons of better invoker players on the forum then me so they can probably give you some really awesome advice as well.

On April 02 2012 06:16 Zlasher wrote:

Show nested quote +

His QoP is...just...omg. The very first time I saw Mouz I was just blown away by Bamboe. He seriously is just super super good. So much fun to watch.

Netherlands12045 Posts

April 01 2012 21:34 GMT

#6317

the main problem with clinkz is that once you are forced into teamfight situation, he has 0 HP and just die to 1-2 non ulti nuke before he could killed anyone.

Take a look at EG line up, you really think Puck is a better replacement for rhasta? I think even a lion/batrider would do a better job. Such a waste of chen pick... Riki in the first 3 picks also gave DTS a lot of room to 'breath' since they know that they dont have to face an all-in push strategy. This is prob a defensive pick to avoid Furion+smoke but you should account for that the moment you let furion slip through the ban phase by banning bane/wr. With the current metagame, tide/BM is much more favored as first pick compare to post the international where we always see venom+wr.

This is why i wana do a write up on the current ban/pick meta game: EU is playing completely different from chinese and SEA and i think the SEA teams are doing it right.

Hoban

United States1600 Posts

April 01 2012 22:17 GMT

#6318

NB if you did a picks/bans write-up I would read it 10x over. I spend so much time analyzing tournaments so it would be really awesome to see a new perspective.

Hit 5 performance bars with invoker

Finally starting to get a feel for this guy. 27 games to go before I hit the 50 mark.

Slomo

Germany7198 Posts

April 01 2012 22:18 GMT

#6319

Just played another pub as broodmother. Most of my games as bm went well cause its pretty nice to farm once you get lvl 4 or so. But one game blew my mind. I had a Tide/Witchdoc on my lane, they sentrywarded me all the time and I couldnt do anythig upwards midgame. Is there something I can do to survive those lanes except hoping another player swaps with me or go jungeling?

Netherlands12045 Posts

April 01 2012 22:29 GMT

#6320

The main problem i have right now is there is now liquidpedia page to actually pull stat from and i have to go over each vods to list out ban pick

These are what i have in notepad so far and its PAINFUL to finish....

+ Show Spoiler +

I think a separate thread like this is needed to discuss the current meta game in competitive level games.

I will begin to analyze the Ban/Pick that happened in the JoinDotA Master happen last month with the lastest new hero added into -cm: Lycan.

Starting with a list of Ban/pick in JoinDotA Master III(pre-lycan):

MUFC vs Orange
Ban:
Orange(1st): [Chen] [Furion] [SD] / [QoP] [SS]
MUFC(2nd): [Invoker] [Brood] [ES] / [Tiny] [Leshrac]
Pick:
Orange: [Enchan] [Bat] [VS] / [OD] [Sladar]
MUFC: [WR] [AM] [CM] / [SK] [Venom]

Winner: MUFC

AL vs AEON
Ban:
AL(1st): [Brood] [AM] [Tide] / [Venom] [CM]
AEON(2nd): [Invoker] [DS] [SD] / [SS] [BM]
Pick:
AL: [Furion] [VS] [Enchan] / [Riki] [Dazzle]
AEON: [WR] [Chen] [Sladar] / [Bane] [ES]

Winner: AL

MYM vs MUFC
Ban:
MUFC(1st): [Furion] [Brood] [Tide] / [Naix] [NS]
MYM(2nd): [Invoker] [Chen] [AM] / [Bat] [Omni]
Pick:
MUFC: [Enchan] [VS] [OD] / [Lion] [Enigma]
MYM: [WR] [SK] [CM] / [Potm] [Venom]

Winner: MUFC

DK vs Mith-trust
Ban:
Mith(1st): [Invoker] [SD] [WR] / [Void] [SS]
DK(2nd): [DS] [AM] [Furion] / [Tide] [SK]
Pick:
Mith: [Bat] [AA] [Puck] / [DK] [VS]
DK: [CM] [ES] [Brood] / [BM] [Viper]

Winner: Mith-trust (Kinda... DK throw)

MUFC vs AL (g1)
Ban:
AL(1st): [AM] [Enchan] [Invoker] / [DS] [ES]
MUFC(2nd): [Furion] [Chen] [WR] / [Naix] [Riki]
Pick:
AL: [VS] [BM] [Enigma] / [Venom] [Ursa]
MUFC: [CM] [Tide] [OD] / [Sladar] [SS]

Winner: AL(?)

MUFC vs AL (g2)
Ban:
MUFC(1st): [Furion] [tide] [CM] / [dazzle] [sd]
AL(2nd): [AM] [enchan] [OD] / [Venom] [Lion]
Pick:
MUFC: [Chen] [WR] [Brood] / [naix] [ss]
AL: [Incoker] [VS] [SK] / [yunero] [WL]

Winner: MUFC (10 mins game)

Notice these are not even the complete tournament and its only 1 tourenament out of 3 that i wana do analysis on... -_-

another way i could do it is hero-by-hero but then i will miss out on some 'strange' pick such as viper/Clinkz

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