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On February 20 2012 11:11 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 11:05 TheWarbler wrote:On February 20 2012 10:29 Candadar wrote:On February 20 2012 10:06 Kznn wrote:OD is indeed a really great hero  hope lanaya comes soon I'd imagine Silencer would just...annihilate him though O_O How? Silence disables orbs, both manual and autocast, which takes away a good chunk of OD's damage dealing capacity. Provided he's keeping up in farm, Silencer also should be able to avoid the brunt of OD's ult damage. He doesn't annihilate OD, but he's a reasonable pick against OD, as Global Silence and Last Word can be fairly disruptive to OD's damage dealing ability. If you wanted something that "annihilated" OD, there was pre-remake Keeper of the Light, when Mana Leak removed 80% of the target's current mana whenever they cast a spell--IIRC Essence Aura procs on allies counted as spell casts for the purpose of triggering Mana Leak.
Perhaps I was a bit...superfluous in my words 
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People say Sven is an "easy" hero to play as. Well everyone has a beginner stage yea? so isnt Sven a viable choice to play as for beginners?
What do veteran players see him as? I personally see him as a good ganker early n mid game but not so much as a tanky hero at late-game, he prolly on the fastest dps str heroes overall i would say?
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On February 20 2012 11:41 KezseN wrote:
People say Sven is an "easy" hero to play as. Well everyone has a beginner stage yea? so isnt Sven a viable choice to play as for beginners?
What do veteran players see him as? I personally see him as a good ganker early n mid game but not so much as a tanky hero at late-game, he prolly on the fastest dps str heroes overall i would say?
good ganker, one of the best stuns in the game, possible great mid-late game burst damage. scales down late game because reliance on dagger initiation, weak maneuverability in conjunction with his weak range, a bit like ursa
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On February 20 2012 12:15 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 11:41 KezseN wrote:
People say Sven is an "easy" hero to play as. Well everyone has a beginner stage yea? so isnt Sven a viable choice to play as for beginners?
What do veteran players see him as? I personally see him as a good ganker early n mid game but not so much as a tanky hero at late-game, he prolly on the fastest dps str heroes overall i would say? good ganker, one of the best stuns in the game, possible great mid-late game burst damage. scales down late game because reliance on dagger initiation, weak maneuverability in conjunction with his weak range, a bit like ursa
he is like a VS but slightly better stun in exchange for no swap ulti. The main problem with running sven is mana which most of the time result in CM pick of mana boot. With the current invoker play, VS is a much better choice but sven is a total viable pick.
VS:
good early game
ward bitch
swap ulti
armor decrease skill which disturb Salve healing and clarities mana and spamable
late game has dmg aura good for pushing and team fight
short range, good animation... could take farm if needed to up chick or wards.
Sven:
AoE stun which is better in teamfight but low int so cant spam harass.
3rd skill give bonus MS for offensive usage and armor for defensive play
No swap ulti so need dagger as core item. Also need mana boots.
Could either be carry or ward bitch depend on farm and successful gankings.
melee with cleave-> easy farming late game if fed, hard to get farm early
Overall VS is more fit with most team formation while sven rely on a 2nd disable to make the gank successful. Also VS has boobs
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Not sure why you A) Spread incorrect information and B) Compare two heroes that are nothing alike.
6.67 - Wave of Terror now reduces HP instead of dealing damage (same overall HP loss, but now does not disable clarity/dagger/etc)
VS doesn't cancel shit.
She doesn't need to take farm to pick up chick or wards. Just not dying will give you plenty of money for those.
Sven is a monster with force staff/treads/bkb. He doesn't even need dagger early-mid game.
In competitive play he is a situational pick, but is not outside the realm of a real game. People are experimenting with getting cleave a bit earlier and its pretty monster.
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Sven is a good ganker for newbies, but assuming you play him like this if you don't get fed he becomes really difficult to play. I think this is where the VS comparison is valid, since they are probably easier for this role. If you play him in lane taking farm etc there are better options for newbies IMO.
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On February 20 2012 15:12 rob.au wrote:
Sven is a good ganker for newbies, but assuming you play him like this if you don't get fed he becomes really difficult to play. I think this is where the VS comparison is valid, since they are probably easier for this role. If you play him in lane taking farm etc there are better options for newbies IMO.
On February 20 2012 11:41 KezseN wrote:
What do veteran players see him as?
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On February 20 2012 14:14 Ack1027 wrote:
In competitive play he is a situational pick, but is not outside the realm of a real game. People are experimenting with getting cleave a bit earlier and its pretty monster.
that bold part there, do u mean to say he is still useful in competitive mode but not as good as the other picks that are available?
N yea thx for the other answers, they r still good insights to keep at the back of my head
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On February 20 2012 15:51 KezseN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 14:14 Ack1027 wrote:
In competitive play he is a situational pick, but is not outside the realm of a real game. People are experimenting with getting cleave a bit earlier and its pretty monster. that bold part there, do u mean to say he is still useful in competitive mode but not as good as the other picks that are available?
Even though Ack is probably going to answer for himself, I'll say that you're reading into what he said. He said that Sven is a viable pick in a competitive game based on the situation . That doesn't mean he's not as good as other picks; it just means he's better in some lineups/strategies and worse in others.
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Honestly I think Sven is a terrible hero, VS, SK, even heroes without a stun but a slow like Tide and Veno are significantly more useful
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lol I won my games today with none other than motherfuckin' TROZZ on my team. At first I couldn't believe it, but after we dominated in TL-like fashion, I was like "fuck yeah".
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did he talk like this
because how else would you know
he is the real trozz
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On February 20 2012 17:21 Dead9 wrote:
did he talk like this
because how else would you know
he is the real trozz
he first identified me by my name (Jaydong), then said a bunch of SC stuff. Then I asked a few questions to which he answered with lightning speed.
Even if it wasn't him, he was still decent at DOTA
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United States47024 Posts
On February 20 2012 16:36 Zlasher wrote:
Honestly I think Sven is a terrible hero, VS, SK, even heroes without a stun but a slow like Tide and Veno are significantly more useful
Those are honestly the wrong heroes to compare him to.
The best hero to compare him to is and always has been Chaos Knight--who is an extremely strong ganking carry in DotA 1 atm. Chaos Knight has a better stun for single targets, and has vastly better overall mobility/utility with Reality Rift. Sven has an AoE stun, provides a team buff, and has an easier time getting into a farm tempo if his ganking doesn't turn out well (particularly with the possibility of getting Cleave earlier). Similar heroes with different skillsets geared toward different situations.
The 6.73 buffs to Sven were also pretty significant IMO, and he probably actually deserves some attention.
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On February 20 2012 09:59 Hoban wrote:
The thing about invoker is learning how to deal with him and how to dodge his abilities. It is just like playing against a pudge where you have to constantly be aware and saying "If I were a pudge what would I be doing right now?" the same goes for invoker. Pushing base? Probably going to throw out a tornado. Standing in a straight line? Gotta avoid that deafening blast. Oh and he is easy to gank early on. Just bring dust. He is super squishy to burst before he gets ridonculously fast with phase+drums+wex+cyclone.
I'm talking about in pro games. I mean he's not actually super squishy early on unless you have a few heroes to burst him down since quas heavy solo builds give you so much regen compared to a normal heroes auto attack damage. He just has so much utility and all his utility spells are best in their field. Merely having the utility would be good without them being overly amazing I feel.
deafening blast, ice wall, emp, cold snap are all as important I feel as tornado and most of those you can't really "learn to deal with" since they rely purely on the skill of the invoker.
ps: Who can outlane an invoker without support?
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United States47024 Posts
On February 20 2012 18:35 Numy wrote:
ps: Who can outlane an invoker without support?
Windrunner and Batrider should both do fine--comes down to how the players on either side play. Broodmother also does well, IIRC, forcing Invoker to take a significant number of Quas levels early on. Puck and Weaver should be playable, but I don't know if I can say they necessarily outlane Invoker.
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I'm just wondering because I just watched coL vs CLG where the invoker basically got complete free farm since he dominated mid lane so hard vs a furion. Wondering if you do let invoker through what a good pick might be to shut down the lane. Batrider and windrunner both sound good. Can have an impact past the laning. I'm still curious as to if the new batrider changes will help him see more play or not.
As a side note do you think it's worth it to commit a lot of your supports to helping mid lane out? I know it's situational but say you losing mid by a bit but top is even, is it better to focus on winning top than forcing mid back to even?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Dual lane against Invoker works aswell as OD mid, however its a bit of a sacrifice. To be fair I have no idea who can fight toe to toe with Invoker out of all good mid heroes in the Dota 2 pool. Mostly ganks however, Invoker needs levels really hard, you will need dust/sentries to do so though.
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On February 20 2012 18:35 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 09:59 Hoban wrote:
The thing about invoker is learning how to deal with him and how to dodge his abilities. It is just like playing against a pudge where you have to constantly be aware and saying "If I were a pudge what would I be doing right now?" the same goes for invoker. Pushing base? Probably going to throw out a tornado. Standing in a straight line? Gotta avoid that deafening blast. Oh and he is easy to gank early on. Just bring dust. He is super squishy to burst before he gets ridonculously fast with phase+drums+wex+cyclone. I'm talking about in pro games. I mean he's not actually super squishy early on unless you have a few heroes to burst him down since quas heavy solo builds give you so much regen compared to a normal heroes auto attack damage. He just has so much utility and all his utility spells are best in their field. Merely having the utility would be good without them being overly amazing I feel. deafening blast, ice wall, emp, cold snap are all as important I feel as tornado and most of those you can't really "learn to deal with" since they rely purely on the skill of the invoker. ps: Who can outlane an invoker without support?
Putting yourself in the opposing Invokers shoes is half the battle, Magic Wand + several mana boots + bkb's where it makes sense helps tremendously vs EMP. Force staff should help vs ice wall, also keep in mind that Invoker will often position himself aggressively to land a good wall - which can be taken advantage of. And as Hoban mentioned, deafening blast can be quite dodge-able at times. No doubt, a skilled invoker is powerful, but his success partially relies on the complacency of his opponents. Is he op? Maybe, maybe not, I have no idea.
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EPT
