It appears that new DK lineup has been confirmed: BurNIng, Mushi, iceiceice, LaNm, MMY!
Looks like new dream team is born!
Mushi: As for the roles, Burning will continue playing as the main carry while I take the middle lane and iceiceice, the solo hard lane. The support roles will be played by LaNm and Dai.
After many days of adjustments, DK Esports Club has finished changing its Dota2 roster. The 5 players are Burning, Mushi, Iceiceice, Lamn, and MMY(Dai). We hope that these 5 friends will achieve excellent results for DK in the future. We hope that our fans will continue to support us. Finally we'd like to thank our sponsor TTesport for their trust in us. Fighting!
If Burning was really practicing to be offlane, then between Burning, Mushi, and Iceiceice, they could run like 4 different combinations of their 1/2/3 roles.
Also I particularly like yesterday when DK's management went "whoah guys whoah whoah whaoh that's totally not the team it's all fake" and then announced it today.
Also I edited in a translation of the official post by Kupon3ss to your OP
wooow holy balls, dk used to be my #3 favorite team and mushi won my fandom after ti3... this is gonna be nuts gonan have to get that pennant at the very least
iceiceice to china.... SEA talents bleeding out Best of luck to him and Mushi. This train gona be heavy for YamateH to carry, hope HYHY make a come back.
Big play makers but curious if burning will adjust to this more aggressive lineup with lanm support and mushi mid and ice3 solo. I cant see this line up doing the 4 protect burning mahjong style but itll be exciting to see nonetheless. Lanm as support though seems like wasted potential
Definitely a dream team, but dream team's have been proven to not work as they are advertised. Luckily for dota2, the 3 gods are actually flexible and can play different roles well.
My favorite team of all time. 3 China 2 SEA, 4 of my favorite carry players plus my 2nd favorite support ... dang. And Burning stays at 1!
On September 06 2013 01:05 Dreamer.T wrote: Definitely a dream team, but dream team's have been proven to not work as they are advertised. Luckily for dota2, the 3 gods are actually flexible and can play different roles well.
I was not impressed by icex3 offlane position in the past, will it change now? It'll be hard rooting against Dai, but I want Super+rOtk to have their revenge against DK's management in the upcoming ACE League.
On September 06 2013 01:03 Kazeyonoma wrote: Big play makers but curious if burning will adjust to this more aggressive lineup with lanm support and mushi mid and ice3 solo. I cant see this line up doing the 4 protect burning mahjong style but itll be exciting to see nonetheless. Lanm as support though seems like wasted potential
Lanm was an excellent support in RS when after ehome he tried switching roles. His SD was sick.
That's actually a pretty sick lineup skill-wise. If their coordination, teamfights and drafting are up to their skill potential, we got ourselves a new powerhouse.
On September 06 2013 01:05 Caladbolg wrote: My favorite team of all time. 3 China 2 SEA, 4 of my favorite carry players plus my 2nd favorite support ... dang. And Burning stays at 1!
On September 06 2013 01:05 Dreamer.T wrote: Definitely a dream team, but dream team's have been proven to not work as they are advertised. Luckily for dota2, the 3 gods are actually flexible and can play different roles well.
Dude your team icon was a dream team and won ti2!
Yeah, but compared to this? Burning Icex3 and Mushi are all gods and stars in the dota 2, even more so than 430 Chuan and YYF. They're chances of winning are high based on raw talent alone, but the problem lies in how the team works with each other. I imagine these 3 have big egos, and they all play similar roles, so hopefully none of that gets in the way. Internal strife was the reason IG did poorly after G-league.
I don't like Chinese teams much(even though this isn't full Chinese team), but damn, this team consist of some top notch players, I can't wait to see them in action! Super excited for them! ;O
On September 06 2013 01:05 Caladbolg wrote: My favorite team of all time. 3 China 2 SEA, 4 of my favorite carry players plus my 2nd favorite support ... dang. And Burning stays at 1!
On September 06 2013 01:05 Dreamer.T wrote: Definitely a dream team, but dream team's have been proven to not work as they are advertised. Luckily for dota2, the 3 gods are actually flexible and can play different roles well.
Dude your team icon was a dream team and won ti2!
Yeah, but compared to this? Burning Icex3 and Mushi are all gods and stars in the dota 2, even more so than 430 Chuan and YYF. They're chances of winning are high based on raw talent alone, but the problem lies in how the team works with each other. I imagine these 3 have big egos, and they all play similar roles, so hopefully none of that gets in the way. Internal strife was the reason IG did poorly after G-league.
Bigger stars than 430 and YYF... Burning sure, Mushi and IceIceIce.... no.
Dreamteams work as often as they fail. we will have to see. DK picked people who are performing, not just 'stars', which can't be said about every dream team formed.
Anyone know how good iceiceice's Mandarin is? He's a really good english speaker so I hope he's a natural trilingual (after all he's Sino-Malay). I know Mushi's good but just has an accent.
On September 06 2013 01:13 Caladbolg wrote: Anyone know how good iceiceice's Mandarin is? He's a really good english speaker so I hope he's a natural trilingual (after all he's Sino-Malay). I know Mushi's good but just has an accent.
He's not Sino-Malay... he's purely ethnic Chinese, and so is Chuan. I imagine iceiceice's chinese to be worse than Mushi's, but they'll catch up fast for dota lingo once they start playing.
On September 06 2013 01:03 NB wrote: iceiceice to china.... SEA talents bleeding out Best of luck to him and Mushi. This train gona be heavy for YamateH to carry, hope HYHY make a come back.
I wish HYHY would come back...but with how well his team is playing in LOL, chances are unlikely
Sucks that the SEA scene loses their two most popular players and is reduced to one super strong team(orange) and a bunch of much weaker teams...
On September 06 2013 01:18 vndestiny wrote: Farseer is such a troll god damnit. Saying stuff like this wouldn't happened and then, it happened. Can't complain though, I'm so happy right now
So DK basicly has the 2 best mid players in Ice³ and Mushi. One of the most versatile players in LanM and probably the most stable top tier support & carry players in Dai and BurNIng. Add some chinese stable performance with some SEA strat innovation and aggression and you have like the most well-rounded team within Asia humanly possible.
On September 06 2013 01:13 Caladbolg wrote: Anyone know how good iceiceice's Mandarin is? He's a really good english speaker so I hope he's a natural trilingual (after all he's Sino-Malay). I know Mushi's good but just has an accent.
icex3 said on stream that his mandarin is pretty bad. he can understand, but barely speak if i remember correctly. this team is gonna be absolutely sick. easily my favorite eastern team now!
On September 06 2013 01:13 Caladbolg wrote: Anyone know how good iceiceice's Mandarin is? He's a really good english speaker so I hope he's a natural trilingual (after all he's Sino-Malay). I know Mushi's good but just has an accent.
icex3 said on stream that his mandarin is pretty bad. he can understand, but barely speak if i remember correctly. this team is gonna be absolutely sick. easily my favorite eastern team now!
From what (very) little I heard from Mushi and ice3, I would've guessed ice3 to be more fluent.
Mushi and ice3, SEA pride (: Just glad that they teamed up because i enjoyed watching them. a little sad that zenith didn't stay longer but well at least ice^3 carries singapore pride (:
On September 06 2013 01:18 vndestiny wrote: Farseer is such a troll god damnit. Saying stuff like this wouldn't happened and then, it happened. Can't complain though, I'm so happy right now
So he only said it was PS'd.
And it only lacked ice3 from the current lineup. Dai was already strongly linked with returning DK. The other two were near locks. If wanted to know if the lineup was true, then it would be a different would be a different matter, but the evidence itself was photoshopped.
On September 06 2013 01:13 Caladbolg wrote: Anyone know how good iceiceice's Mandarin is? He's a really good english speaker so I hope he's a natural trilingual (after all he's Sino-Malay). I know Mushi's good but just has an accent.
icex3 said on stream that his mandarin is pretty bad. he can understand, but barely speak if i remember correctly. this team is gonna be absolutely sick. easily my favorite eastern team now!
Dont worry about it ! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaah Obviously, his Mandarin sucks, but all of them can speak Cantonese fluently hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
This explains why iceiceice has been talking about offlane on his stream.
Also: HOLY SHIT! New favorite eastern team for sure. If they get their teamplay going, I'm not sure even Alliance or Na'Vi can stand up to that. But, anything is possible. We'll see how it works out.
Only one problem that might arise is the tendency of overextent ( or throw whatever you call it lol) from mushi and ice3. However in a Chinese training environment I have no doubt that they will improve greatly in late game decision making, there's B-God in the team after all
On September 06 2013 01:18 vndestiny wrote: Farseer is such a troll god damnit. Saying stuff like this wouldn't happened and then, it happened. Can't complain though, I'm so happy right now
So he only said it was PS'd.
He also said no dream team would form or sth like that in the beginning. But yeah I was overzealous, but I didn't mean to criticize farseer in anyway though . Just happy for the New DK.
On September 06 2013 01:28 Caladbolg wrote: My friend told me that iceiceice said this on stream (paraphrased):
"iceiceice re: mushi: he's a monster. monstrous skills. he's ugly too. ah, he knows he's ugly lah.
hihi this team will work"
Oh how about Mushi, is he also ethnically pure Chinese?
Hope communication issues are gonna work out.
Definitely. Both of them are just probably used to speaking a splatter of English and Chinese. iceiceice probably shares the same family name as burning though.
I like the potential flexibility of the team... I know Mushi laid out who would play which position, but it seems to me that they could switch things up a bit if necessary.
oh well the cat is out of the bag now. the last 2 weeks there were about 4 teams vying for iceiceice, me personally assisting one of them.
Mushi in the meantime was trying to convince DK to pick up iceiceice, as he had promised to bring him along for the ride to china. DK finally made that decision a few days ago and now we have this starstudded roster.
the sad story here is that we'll never see the comeback of papaxiong, as ice3 initially wanted to bring along papaxiong and bouncy along into the new team, with Mu.
On September 06 2013 02:03 insi9nia wrote: oh well the cat is out of the bag now. the last 2 weeks there were about 4 teams vying for iceiceice, me personally assisting one of them.
Mushi in the meantime was trying to convince DK to pick up iceiceice, as he had promised to bring him along for the ride to china. DK finally made that decision a few days ago and now we have this starstudded roster.
the sad story here is that we'll never see the comeback of papaxiong, as ice3 initially wanted to bring along papaxiong and bouncy along into the new team, with Mu.
Ice3 should have no problem with communication. Singaporeans are generally able to speak both English and mandarin. It should definitely be at the very least understandable. Its certain though that ice3 will understand what his teammates are saying.
My concerns with this lineup is that I don't like ice3 as offlane. I have never been convinced by his performances there. IMO he should not have joined dk. He should join some other team and take the solo mid role permanently. I also do not want mushi to be playing carry. He should mid as well. so there's no way I feel they should be in the same team.
Another concern is the lack of a Chen player. I'm not sure if lamn can play it. Ice3 is known for his micro, but I don't think its good to give him Chen/enchant/visage.
On September 06 2013 02:08 DucK- wrote: Ice3 should have no problem with communication. Singaporeans are generally able to speak both English and mandarin. It should definitely be at the very least understandable. Its certain though that ice3 will understand what his teammates are saying.
My concerns with this lineup is that I don't like ice3 as offlane. I have never been convinced by his performances there. IMO he should not have joined dk. He should join some other team and take the solo mid role permanently. I also do not want mushi to be playing carry. He should mid as well. so there's no way I feel they should be in the same team.
Another concern is the lack of a Chen player. I'm not sure if lamn can play it. Ice3 is known for his micro, but I don't think its good to give him Chen/enchant/visage.
I don't see this team working out.
Mushi isn't playing carry, he's taking mid. Burning is the carry, ice3 on offlane, and LanM and Dai on support. (source: Mushi)
On September 06 2013 02:03 insi9nia wrote: oh well the cat is out of the bag now. the last 2 weeks there were about 4 teams vying for iceiceice, me personally assisting one of them.
Mushi in the meantime was trying to convince DK to pick up iceiceice, as he had promised to bring him along for the ride to china. DK finally made that decision a few days ago and now we have this starstudded roster.
the sad story here is that we'll never see the comeback of papaxiong, as ice3 initially wanted to bring along papaxiong and bouncy along into the new team, with Mu.
Time to buy a DK pennant.
Which four teams, if you don't mind me asking?
Not really at liberty to reveal anything, sorry.
This is kind of a double edged sword for singapore dota (or to a lesser extent, SEA dota), with Zenith out of the picture, lesser SG teams such as FD and Impervious have a huge huddle removed. The thing is, no SG team at the moment can compete on the regional stage competently, let alone international.
I guess the only dominance in SEA will come from the reformed Orange, or whatever team Yamateh & Ice can muster up.
On September 06 2013 02:23 hunts wrote: I really thoguht sylar was gonna join too, kinda dissapointed now, and curious why he left LGD if not for DK.
Rumor is that he's going to RStars. Otherwise he seems kind of screwed. His situation is allegedly pretty difficult. I can't help but imagine that teams did approach him, but maybe the "earthquake" complicated matters.
As exciting as this is to hear, I can't help but think this is bad for the SEA scene. I don't think many up and coming players would like the trend of top players moving to China. Losing local players may create a lack of a scene or team to look up to and sponsors may be more reluctant to invest in the scene because interest may drop with the lack of "star power"
On September 06 2013 02:08 DucK- wrote: Ice3 should have no problem with communication. Singaporeans are generally able to speak both English and mandarin. It should definitely be at the very least understandable. Its certain though that ice3 will understand what his teammates are saying.
My concerns with this lineup is that I don't like ice3 as offlane. I have never been convinced by his performances there. IMO he should not have joined dk. He should join some other team and take the solo mid role permanently. I also do not want mushi to be playing carry. He should mid as well. so there's no way I feel they should be in the same team.
Another concern is the lack of a Chen player. I'm not sure if lamn can play it. Ice3 is known for his micro, but I don't think its good to give him Chen/enchant/visage.
I don't see this team working out.
Mushi isn't playing carry, he's taking mid. Burning is the carry, ice3 on offlane, and LanM and Dai on support. (source: Mushi)
I know. I'm just saying that mushi and Ice3 talents are wasted anywhere else except solo mid. For that reason, they should not exist in the same team.
However, how concerned should we be about overlap in skill/preferences/experience? Using the Miami Heat analogy, it's as if all 3 "superstars" brought in were Centers. Sure, having the 3 best centers in the league is nice, but you'll never play 3 at once (rarely even 2), and there is only one basketball. Ultimately people have to learn roles they never really played. Even if somebody is the best mid in the world doesn't mean they'll be anywhere near that in the offlane by default.
On September 06 2013 02:08 DucK- wrote: Ice3 should have no problem with communication. Singaporeans are generally able to speak both English and mandarin. It should definitely be at the very least understandable. Its certain though that ice3 will understand what his teammates are saying.
My concerns with this lineup is that I don't like ice3 as offlane. I have never been convinced by his performances there. IMO he should not have joined dk. He should join some other team and take the solo mid role permanently. I also do not want mushi to be playing carry. He should mid as well. so there's no way I feel they should be in the same team.
Another concern is the lack of a Chen player. I'm not sure if lamn can play it. Ice3 is known for his micro, but I don't think its good to give him Chen/enchant/visage.
I don't see this team working out.
Mushi isn't playing carry, he's taking mid. Burning is the carry, ice3 on offlane, and LanM and Dai on support. (source: Mushi)
I know. I'm just saying that mushi and Ice3 talents are wasted anywhere else except solo mid. For that reason, they should not exist in the same team.
1v1 skill is incredibly important as an offlaner since it seriously constrains the laning options of your opponents if they don't feel safe putting their carry solo safe lane vs your offlaner.
On September 06 2013 02:08 DucK- wrote: Ice3 should have no problem with communication. Singaporeans are generally able to speak both English and mandarin. It should definitely be at the very least understandable. Its certain though that ice3 will understand what his teammates are saying.
My concerns with this lineup is that I don't like ice3 as offlane. I have never been convinced by his performances there. IMO he should not have joined dk. He should join some other team and take the solo mid role permanently. I also do not want mushi to be playing carry. He should mid as well. so there's no way I feel they should be in the same team.
Another concern is the lack of a Chen player. I'm not sure if lamn can play it. Ice3 is known for his micro, but I don't think its good to give him Chen/enchant/visage.
I don't see this team working out.
Mushi isn't playing carry, he's taking mid. Burning is the carry, ice3 on offlane, and LanM and Dai on support. (source: Mushi)
I know. I'm just saying that mushi and Ice3 talents are wasted anywhere else except solo mid. For that reason, they should not exist in the same team.
Yeah, it's exciting, but at the same time, sad to see a lot of talents gathering on one team. It makes the scene smaller now since there're no relevant teams in SEA, while a lot of other good players in China are also be outsourced by SEA. If those Chinese players gather up and make a new team, that is fine, but it's really hard since existing teams are still struggling.
honestly i am not that concerned with this superstar problem, PLT and Dai will form a great Support duo, Mushi and BurNIng got their positions and with this dream come true moment for iceiceice i can't imagine he will fail his teammates on the hardlane either
On the other hand, teams made up of primarily carry/mid players have gone on to have lots of success. iG is the most notable example, winning TI2 with one support player, two historically mid/semicarry players and two hard carries.
On September 06 2013 02:08 DucK- wrote: Ice3 should have no problem with communication. Singaporeans are generally able to speak both English and mandarin. It should definitely be at the very least understandable. Its certain though that ice3 will understand what his teammates are saying.
My concerns with this lineup is that I don't like ice3 as offlane. I have never been convinced by his performances there. IMO he should not have joined dk. He should join some other team and take the solo mid role permanently. I also do not want mushi to be playing carry. He should mid as well. so there's no way I feel they should be in the same team.
Another concern is the lack of a Chen player. I'm not sure if lamn can play it. Ice3 is known for his micro, but I don't think its good to give him Chen/enchant/visage.
I don't see this team working out.
Mushi isn't playing carry, he's taking mid. Burning is the carry, ice3 on offlane, and LanM and Dai on support. (source: Mushi)
I know. I'm just saying that mushi and Ice3 talents are wasted anywhere else except solo mid. For that reason, they should not exist in the same team.
Ah, okay.
I am not too hot about ice3 on DK either -- I feel like DK just gambled rOtk away for someone who has the same problems -- but they will probably experiment and see where players fit the best for team synergy. I can't help but wonder how 1 - Mushi, 2 - ice3, and 3 - Burning would work out if Burning continues to practice offlane. I think ice3 may be the one they will have to accommodate the most.
ice^3 played some offlane before i think. him willing to take on the role is a good sign already. sometimes with Dream Teams, the big egos won't accept a lesser role. but in this case i don't think that'll be a problem
On September 06 2013 02:35 Levistus wrote: hahahaha omfg
edit: oh btw guys how good are lanm and dai compared to other top supports? is this lineup the strongest so far potentially?
LaNm is considered one of the absolute top players in china, especially one of the most versatile of them all, he should have good synergy with Dai from their time together in Ehome (Tiny+Wisp anyone?) who is best known for his playmaking supports like Rubick, coming from a solomid background a while back
I was already a DK fan with flair or w/e before this but for some reason I'm not as excited as a lot if people switching over >< I guess I don't know the scene that well but I do remember lanm's story, I think ice is cool, and mushi seems cool too I guess. All in all I'm very happy that burning is playing on as carry etc and I do really like the team but I probably wouldn't switch over from another team to dk for this, if I were a fan of another team haha
BUT I'm a fan already so WOOHOO gogogogo no idea about a lot of the scene but I hope they kick ass ^^ sad about losing super and rotk still but based on people's reactions, this must be great, so I'm getting really excited too now XD
This team will be good if Burning can lead some strong personalities. Listening and reading to his interviews suggests to me he understands how to work with strong personalities, and he ain't no B.
Should be a strong team, hopefully the SEA players bring in a strong edge in drafting to the team.
On September 06 2013 03:35 Paluth wrote: Thats an amazing lineup! But my question is who is gonna be the captain? Who is gonna command the drafts? Thats the big question.
I'd guess Burning drafting, though it'd be cool to see Mushi doing it.
Edit: I think pretty much everyone who had a Zenith sig before now has switched to DK. :B Myself included.
On September 06 2013 01:05 Caladbolg wrote: My favorite team of all time. 3 China 2 SEA, 4 of my favorite carry players plus my 2nd favorite support ... dang. And Burning stays at 1!
On September 06 2013 01:05 Dreamer.T wrote: Definitely a dream team, but dream team's have been proven to not work as they are advertised. Luckily for dota2, the 3 gods are actually flexible and can play different roles well.
Dude your team icon was a dream team and won ti2!
Yeah, but compared to this? Burning Icex3 and Mushi are all gods and stars in the dota 2, even more so than 430 Chuan and YYF. They're chances of winning are high based on raw talent alone, but the problem lies in how the team works with each other. I imagine these 3 have big egos, and they all play similar roles, so hopefully none of that gets in the way. Internal strife was the reason IG did poorly after G-league.
Bigger stars than 430 and YYF... Burning sure, Mushi and IceIceIce.... no.
Dreamteams work as often as they fail. we will have to see. DK picked people who are performing, not just 'stars', which can't be said about every dream team formed.
Mushi is definitely as big if not bigger than 430 and YYF after his performance in Ti3. Icex3 is debatable, but he certainly isn't a nobody in the scene. Them performing well on different teams in the past is no indication that they'll do just as well with their new team. We are all hoping that this new DK pulls a Miami Heat and not the recent LA Lakers.
On September 06 2013 03:35 Paluth wrote: Thats an amazing lineup! But my question is who is gonna be the captain? Who is gonna command the drafts? Thats the big question.
I'd guess Burning drafting, though it'd be cool to see Mushi doing it.
Edit: I think pretty much everyone who had a Zenith sig before now has switched to DK. :B Myself included.
I would prefer Mushi drafting. AFAIK Burning has more experience but Mushi has some unusual strats that not only makes the games fun to watch but often catchs his oponents with the pants down, eg. picking Slardar in TI3 against Dragon Knight (high armor) and Weaver (Invis). I can't remember but maybe there was a tree in there also (another invis hero).
If there is sinergy in this lineup, China may be back to the top once more.
On a sidenote: How the hell do you draft against that team?! Mushi has played the most number of heroes during ti3. LanM is known for playing pretty much everything on a really high level and icex3. Well, he's icex3. There's nothing more I need to say. Dai also isn't someone who's restricted on his heropool and BurNIng is definetly more than just AM. The more I think about it, the more unfair this lineup seems, lol.
Honestly, dont quite like ice3 on DK, just hope that he wont even go near drafting and actually play his best when he is assigned whatever hero.
Otherwise new DK looks good, BurNing must be tired of keep playing all those kind of depressing games, this time Mushi will own mid and roll hard with him!!!
On September 06 2013 04:36 BurningSera wrote: Honestly, dont quite like ice3 on DK, just hope that he wont even go near drafting and actually play his best when he is assigned whatever hero.
Otherwise new DK looks good, BurNing must be tired of keep playing all those kind of depressing games, this time Mushi will own mid and roll hard with him!!!
iceiceice blessed us with an Invoker pick at TI3. I Hope he'll draft
usually these like "get an all star team" doesn't work as well as people think. I mean both iceiceice and mushi kinda like to be the shotcallers in the game, so hopefully that can work out between them (or maybe mushi too godly and will just be the master)
Honestly though, how can you complain. Mushi is the #1 mid player hands down, and if he gets rolling while burning farms how do you stop that shit. also, icex3 can probably be a great offlaner with practice. Its not too bad to have a slgithly suicidal ("aggressive") offlaner (although I think that recently the admiral bulldog school of pretty conservative offlane has been REALLY effective obviously)
I also think lanm and MMY are great support
So I guess overall, we'll see if they can synergize well and get egos under control. Should be an awesome team to watch, and definitely capable of some super sick plays
On September 06 2013 04:36 BurningSera wrote: Honestly, dont quite like ice3 on DK, just hope that he wont even go near drafting and actually play his best when he is assigned whatever hero.
Otherwise new DK looks good, BurNing must be tired of keep playing all those kind of depressing games, this time Mushi will own mid and roll hard with him!!!
iceiceice blessed us with an Invoker pick at TI3. I Hope he'll draft
He also did the no ban draft strategy. I'm guessing it will probably be a team drafting effort really.
Oh man. This is going to be legendary. CMON LETS GO! Now lets hope Dai / LaNm (especially LaNm imo) can perform on 4/5. 1/2/3 positions are preeetty down pat imo.
This seems like a great team on paper, but am i the only one that think their personalities (especially iceciceice and mushi) might clash and cause the team to fall apart after a few bad performances?
Gratz to iceiceice and Mushi. I'm glad Dai stayed on he's an amazing dota talent. With LaNm as their 4th this team can potentially play in so many different styles ;D
This is so fucking sick. Mushi, Icex3, and Burning in the same team is some hella ridiculous skill. No wonder Burning was coy on the retiring thing. Usually with Dream Teams there is this "evil empire" feel to the whole thing but all these guys are pretty likable and down to earth. Instantly my new favorite team.
This is pretty much true. Anything less than winning TI4 will be something of a letdown for this team. Hope they can match the hype.
I guess it depends on whose expectations you are talking about. If you are talking about DK management, then a major tournament win in the next year, G-1 or the like, is the minimum. TI4 is probably what their target is but DK isn't a fly by night team. I doubt that it is TI4 or bust. If the fans or anti-fans want to think that way, to each their own. I seriously doubt DK shit-cans anyone unless its blatantly obvious.
On September 06 2013 02:08 DucK- wrote: Ice3 should have no problem with communication. Singaporeans are generally able to speak both English and mandarin. It should definitely be at the very least understandable. Its certain though that ice3 will understand what his teammates are saying.
My concerns with this lineup is that I don't like ice3 as offlane. I have never been convinced by his performances there. IMO he should not have joined dk. He should join some other team and take the solo mid role permanently. I also do not want mushi to be playing carry. He should mid as well. so there's no way I feel they should be in the same team.
Another concern is the lack of a Chen player. I'm not sure if lamn can play it. Ice3 is known for his micro, but I don't think its good to give him Chen/enchant/visage.
I don't see this team working out.
Mushi isn't playing carry, he's taking mid. Burning is the carry, ice3 on offlane, and LanM and Dai on support. (source: Mushi)
I know. I'm just saying that mushi and Ice3 talents are wasted anywhere else except solo mid. For that reason, they should not exist in the same team.
SEA dota mass conflicts will open up the farming for burning, who proceed to trash on the enemy team. With mushi and ice3's individual skill and SEA style, the new 4-1 will be an offensive 4-1 instead of a defensive 4-1 lol.
You guys heard it here first.
I will happily be a follower and jump on the train. DK support now!
My only fear is that 5 stars in one team results in egos clashing. I'm sure iceiceice, mushi and probably burning have very strong opinions and egos so I hope they can decide on a captain with the confidence to carry the weight of his team. And the skills to earn the respect of his peers to make the hard calls. I hope and think Mushi is up for the task of taking the captain role for his team and I know that he has a lot of respect in the chinese scene for his amazing individual skill. After all, he probably started the nickname trend of M-God, B-God etc.
Mushi late game decision making is still questionable sometimes, so just leave the captain to Burning . I meant it's Burning lol, who's gonna argue against him.
On September 06 2013 09:46 vndestiny wrote: Mushi late game decision making is still questionable sometimes, so just leave the captain to Burning . I meant it's Burning lol, who's gonna argue against him.
On September 06 2013 09:41 mnck wrote: My only fear is that 5 stars in one team results in egos clashing. I'm sure iceiceice, mushi and probably burning have very strong opinions and egos so I hope they can decide on a captain with the confidence to carry the weight of his team. And the skills to earn the respect of his peers to make the hard calls. I hope and think Mushi is up for the task of taking the captain role for his team and I know that he has a lot of respect in the chinese scene for his amazing individual skill. After all, he probably started the nickname trend of M-God, B-God etc.
nah the -god lineage started in the vigoss/loda days.
Gratz to DK. Now will the Dota scene hurry up and give us some competitions to watch, TI3 was ages ago....
Off-lane Ice3 might be too predictable for drafting or even stifling his talent? Admiral bulldog plays NP, BH, Clockwerk and of course Lone Druid all very well in the off-lane. What will Ice3 bring to this role?
Anyway its hard to keep these guys to any one lane and they should experiment aplenty.
If TI3 is anything to go by, they should let Mushi draft.
If this team is still around until TI4, they'll win it. I didn't read through the first 11 pages of this thread, so I'm sorry if I'm not the first one to already say this!
Sure this team has some of my favourite players, but it's still almost a bit sad for me to see LaNm not in a spotlight role . I mean, supports are obviously important but "let's be real", the players who garner the most attention on a team tends to be in the 1-3 and even then most the 1-2 role.
I hope Burning does well on the 3 role (assuming that's where he is). I don't know what exactly I think about having arguably the smallest risk taker play the 3. I guess he'll anchor iceiceice's/Mushi's crazyness, but I dunno. It's going to be weird seeing team DK not playing 4 protect 1 anymore.
But now that I think about it, teams are already often rotating between the 1-3 role, and with Mushi's and iceiceice's hero pool, they're going to be pain in the ass to play against seeing as to how it'll be more or less impossible to know who's on what until all 5 heroes have been picked. I mean, LaNm and dai can play lots of stuffs as well .
To those concerned about the SEA scene, as far as I know there is basically none. We are all fans of other teams, and having a country representative is good enough. Having Orange owning up ti3 was excellent though.
Eh...not sure how to feel about this as a DK and BurNIng fan.
I thought Mushi and LaNm were amazing pickups, but I am not convinced that iceiceice can adapt to the offlane role. Furthermore, I think his personality is going to clash with BurNIng's, and possibly lead to some poor drafting decisions.
On September 06 2013 10:20 nayumi wrote: Man when you got a team where the two solo players were finalists of the world solo championship, there's really not much left to say
Personal 1v1 skill is an extremely unimportant factor when constructing a professional team, especially when one of the players mentioned will not be playing that role.
OMG,..... This new DK is going to take the Dota 2 world by storm, best players from SEA and the Great Wall could offer for position Carry, Mid and Offlaner....
I followed Mushi for a long time, and I'm not really sure that this line up would work.. Mushi needs a sacrificial lamb to go mid when the opponent has the upper hand of the mid hero.. and I don't see Burning will take the job
On September 06 2013 15:05 tada.hts wrote: I followed Mushi for a long time, and I'm not really sure that this line up would work.. Mushi needs a sacrificial lamb to go mid when the opponent has the upper hand of the mid hero.. and I don't see Burning will take the job
I could see them playing some games with Mushi 1, iceiceice mid and Burning offlane. Or any variation thereof. They're all quite versatile players.
On September 06 2013 15:05 tada.hts wrote: I followed Mushi for a long time, and I'm not really sure that this line up would work.. Mushi needs a sacrificial lamb to go mid when the opponent has the upper hand of the mid hero.. and I don't see Burning will take the job
I could see them playing some games with Mushi 1, iceiceice mid and Burning offlane. Or any variation thereof. They're all quite versatile players.
Ah true, this would work. :D Cause you definitely don't want Mushi to get shut down.
On September 06 2013 13:55 Jenovah wrote: OMG,..... This new DK is going to take the Dota 2 world by storm, best players from SEA and the Great Wall could offer for position Carry, Mid and Offlaner....
I really like icex3, and watch he's stream alott, but he is by far the best offlaner...
This is going to work out well. Icex3 just need more practice offlane and without any roles switching, I feel that he will get sufficient practices. One of the reason Zenith wasn't performing well in TI3 was the inability of practicing with the Chinese teams, Mushi, Burning, Lamn and Dai are all pretty solid and amazing already. With the best carry in the world, 2 of them best solo players, a good micro-based role 4 and a decisive role 5.
On September 06 2013 15:05 tada.hts wrote: I followed Mushi for a long time, and I'm not really sure that this line up would work.. Mushi needs a sacrificial lamb to go mid when the opponent has the upper hand of the mid hero.. and I don't see Burning will take the job
I could see them playing some games with Mushi 1, iceiceice mid and Burning offlane. Or any variation thereof. They're all quite versatile players.
I actually feel like this would be the best lineup for them overall, with BurNIng on some more rice-heavy offlaners and Mushi on some more aggressive carries, so their styles can meet in the middle. I just don't think ice and Mushi's lategame decisionmaking is as solid as most Chinese players if they stick with 4p1, plus, their strengths won't be fully utilized that way. They'll need to adapt.
Out of all the roster changes thus far, DK's new roster is the one I'm most anxiously waiting to see in action. I really hope this roster change works out for them
I think dk will do well if they play an aggressive play style. Mushi is a beast when given playmaking heroes. Just don't be retarded and pick solo mid Alch for him.
My only concern is Ice3 performances as #3. His prophet and ds offlane solo have not been conservative enough. Still he is the best player for offlane solo in DK.
However, I assume that dk will be very strong in aggressive trilane, with Ice3 capable of soloing mid in mushi's place.
On September 06 2013 10:20 nayumi wrote: Man when you got a team where the two solo players were finalists of the world solo championship, there's really not much left to say
Personal 1v1 skill is an extremely unimportant factor when constructing a professional team, especially when one of the players mentioned will not be playing that role.
It's not the uttermost crucial factor but saying it's unimportant is simply untrue. Every dominant team so far has relied a lot on their solo laners (be it mid or off-lane). And in the first 5-10 minutes, as a solo laner you needs your personal skill to win last hit, out harass, obtain lane/rune control.
It might not be the case when your off-laner goes up against a tri/dual lane but for mid it's almost always a 1v1 contest.
On September 06 2013 10:20 nayumi wrote: Man when you got a team where the two solo players were finalists of the world solo championship, there's really not much left to say
Personal 1v1 skill is an extremely unimportant factor when constructing a professional team, especially when one of the players mentioned will not be playing that role.
It's not the uttermost crucial factor but saying it's unimportant is simply untrue. Every dominant team so far has relied a lot on their solo laners (be it mid or off-lane). And in the first 5-10 minutes, as a solo laner you needs your personal skill to win last hit, out harass, obtain lane/rune control.
It might not be the case when your off-laner goes up against a tri/dual lane but for mid it's almost always a 1v1 contest.
Team chemistry, listening to calls, having good coordination, having good positioning, executing teamfights are all much more important skills than how well you can 1v1 in your lane, and those are the things that might be called into question with this roster.
Winning a solo mid championship is not a huge endorsement of a player's contribution to a team, that's all I'm saying.
On September 06 2013 10:20 nayumi wrote: Man when you got a team where the two solo players were finalists of the world solo championship, there's really not much left to say
Personal 1v1 skill is an extremely unimportant factor when constructing a professional team, especially when one of the players mentioned will not be playing that role.
It's not the uttermost crucial factor but saying it's unimportant is simply untrue. Every dominant team so far has relied a lot on their solo laners (be it mid or off-lane). And in the first 5-10 minutes, as a solo laner you needs your personal skill to win last hit, out harass, obtain lane/rune control.
It might not be the case when your off-laner goes up against a tri/dual lane but for mid it's almost always a 1v1 contest.
Team chemistry, listening to calls, having good coordination, having good positioning, executing teamfights are all much more important skills than how well you can 1v1 in your lane, and those are the things that might be called into question with this roster.
Winning a solo mid championship is not a huge endorsement of a player's contribution to a team, that's all I'm saying.
Given that Alliance almost always wins 1v1 solo match-ups that's not a particular true statement. You are severely downplaying how individual skill big time.
On September 06 2013 10:20 nayumi wrote: Man when you got a team where the two solo players were finalists of the world solo championship, there's really not much left to say
Personal 1v1 skill is an extremely unimportant factor when constructing a professional team, especially when one of the players mentioned will not be playing that role.
It's not the uttermost crucial factor but saying it's unimportant is simply untrue. Every dominant team so far has relied a lot on their solo laners (be it mid or off-lane). And in the first 5-10 minutes, as a solo laner you needs your personal skill to win last hit, out harass, obtain lane/rune control.
It might not be the case when your off-laner goes up against a tri/dual lane but for mid it's almost always a 1v1 contest.
Team chemistry, listening to calls, having good coordination, having good positioning, executing teamfights are all much more important skills than how well you can 1v1 in your lane, and those are the things that might be called into question with this roster.
Winning a solo mid championship is not a huge endorsement of a player's contribution to a team, that's all I'm saying.
I think you're missing my point.
Coordination, positioning and team fight are all the basics of forming a good team, let alone a top tier professional one. Basically when we discuss teams on this level, it's almost a given that they have to be good at those aspects to even consider competing with others. So I'm not arguing based on a newly formed DK where each guy does his own thing, but the one where they have enough practice to even be considered a team, not just a group of players. Unless mad egos kick in, I don't see why it should take them more than a couple of months to reach that level of understanding.
On September 06 2013 10:20 nayumi wrote: Man when you got a team where the two solo players were finalists of the world solo championship, there's really not much left to say
Personal 1v1 skill is an extremely unimportant factor when constructing a professional team, especially when one of the players mentioned will not be playing that role.
It's not the uttermost crucial factor but saying it's unimportant is simply untrue. Every dominant team so far has relied a lot on their solo laners (be it mid or off-lane). And in the first 5-10 minutes, as a solo laner you needs your personal skill to win last hit, out harass, obtain lane/rune control.
It might not be the case when your off-laner goes up against a tri/dual lane but for mid it's almost always a 1v1 contest.
Team chemistry, listening to calls, having good coordination, having good positioning, executing teamfights are all much more important skills than how well you can 1v1 in your lane, and those are the things that might be called into question with this roster.
Winning a solo mid championship is not a huge endorsement of a player's contribution to a team, that's all I'm saying.
It does make it easier to improve tho since the players are apparently very strong mechanically. The rest is up to the team to improve on together. But i agree that just having the 5 best players mechanically doesnt make a team the best team in the world(not saying that these 5 are)
On September 06 2013 10:20 nayumi wrote: Man when you got a team where the two solo players were finalists of the world solo championship, there's really not much left to say
Personal 1v1 skill is an extremely unimportant factor when constructing a professional team, especially when one of the players mentioned will not be playing that role.
It's not the uttermost crucial factor but saying it's unimportant is simply untrue. Every dominant team so far has relied a lot on their solo laners (be it mid or off-lane). And in the first 5-10 minutes, as a solo laner you needs your personal skill to win last hit, out harass, obtain lane/rune control.
It might not be the case when your off-laner goes up against a tri/dual lane but for mid it's almost always a 1v1 contest.
Team chemistry, listening to calls, having good coordination, having good positioning, executing teamfights are all much more important skills than how well you can 1v1 in your lane, and those are the things that might be called into question with this roster.
Winning a solo mid championship is not a huge endorsement of a player's contribution to a team, that's all I'm saying.
I think you're missing my point.
Coordination, positioning and team fight are all the basics of forming a good team, let alone a top tier professional one. Basically when we discuss teams on this level, it's almost a given that they have to be good at those aspects to even consider competing with others. So I'm not arguing based on a newly formed DK where each guy does his own thing, but the one where they have enough practice to even be considered a team, not just a group of players. Unless mad egos kick in, I don't see why it should take them more than a couple of months to reach that level of understanding.
It's really the exact opposite. All of these guys are crazy good at DotA, they all have extremely high individual skill. The thing that separates winning teams from losing ones is strategy and team synergy. Sure, one team's mid might be the best in the world, but the other team's mid is also capable of making plays and winning the lane. It's a nice bonus to be good at laning but it's simply less than 5% of the overall game.
Coordination and positioning are the basics of forming a good team?? Those are the two things, along with overall strategy, that decide almost every high-level game. They are hardly basic. Most teams never get completely comfortable with each other, which is why you see so many team shifts in DotA. I know that Mushi is super versatile and humble and will fit into any team, but iceiceice is neither of those things, so I don't see it working out. Hopefully I will be proven wrong though.
On September 07 2013 03:38 HardlyNever wrote: Obviously I've missed something in the past few weeks, but wasn't burning supposed to be retiring after TI3?
On September 07 2013 03:38 HardlyNever wrote: Obviously I've missed something in the past few weeks, but wasn't burning supposed to be retiring after TI3?
Was that all just hype?
I think he was a bit burned out (no pun intended) practicing for TI3 when he said that, but then the tournament hit him unexpectedly hard. He was clearly so motivated to win, and disappointed when the Chinese teams fell short. That feeling probably reaffirmed his dedication to the game.
rOtk feeds out, icex3 feeds in. at least rotk had some really legit impressive plays lately. also y u kick Super and 357?? GL farming both Mushi and Burning for 30 minutes. #getting raped
I can imagine all of them playing their favourite/best heros.It would be a sick debut if they do it at the Ace Tournament. Burning : AM Mushi:QoP Icex3: Invoker Lamn: SK Dai:Lion
On September 07 2013 03:38 HardlyNever wrote: Obviously I've missed something in the past few weeks, but wasn't burning supposed to be retiring after TI3?
Was that all just hype?
I think he was a bit burned out (no pun intended) practicing for TI3 when he said that, but then the tournament hit him unexpectedly hard. He was clearly so motivated to win, and disappointed when the Chinese teams fell short. That feeling probably reaffirmed his dedication to the game.
I got the impression that burning was actually just sick and tired of hearing the question and was not surprised to hear that he was going in for another year.
He went from "Yeah I'm going to retire" (TI2), "ugh maybe I'm going to retire" (a little g-league interview) to "stop fucking asking me about my retirement" (leading up to ti3).
He stopped answering questions concerning his retirement all together.
On September 07 2013 03:38 HardlyNever wrote: Obviously I've missed something in the past few weeks, but wasn't burning supposed to be retiring after TI3?
Was that all just hype?
I think he was a bit burned out (no pun intended) practicing for TI3 when he said that, but then the tournament hit him unexpectedly hard. He was clearly so motivated to win, and disappointed when the Chinese teams fell short. That feeling probably reaffirmed his dedication to the game.
What are you, a shrink? Nah, but that seems like a quite plausible explanation.
On September 07 2013 13:50 Kabras wrote: rOtk feeds out, icex3 feeds in. at least rotk had some really legit impressive plays lately. also y u kick Super and 357?? GL farming both Mushi and Burning for 30 minutes. #getting raped
Well, they both feed, but ice3x can bring some fresh ideas and heroes into their draft, so thats at least some positive into it. 357 retired, TI3 was his last tournament and i guess they wanted more versatile and aggressive mid instead of Super! (might also be that Super! left willingly with his friend RotK). Also Mushi was much less farm-centric lately, performing on less farm heavy heroes, such as Puck, so your point is invalid. He only farms when given #1 role.
Don't invalidate the dude. I throw harsh criticism towards rotk as much as anyone else (just because it's quite funny) but he undeniably played well ti3 and noticed a huge improvement in individual play in comparison to the outright dumb things I saw him do before.
Iceiceice as a player hasn't proven anything to me in ti3 that makes me think more of him than rotk. His Invoker game was quite good but aside from that, Rotk was integral to DK making a decent run in ti4. Icex3 on the other hand is hard to formulate an opinion on given how poor Zenith did all together.
The opponents that DK played against as well was much harder than Zenith. ROTK stood out against teams such as Alliance whereas Icex3 stood out against....VP.
I agree, he played generally well at TI3, but also had his fails. For example, him stupidly losing a gem as DS was the turning point of g1 vs Alliance.
I'm not satisfied with ice3x's recruitment as well, just hope for the better and waiting for at least a month of their official games to make any judgment.
zenith just looked lost at ti3. the games where they played well, they stomped, and if they didn't, it was mostly due to bad drafting and coordination. it was really weird watching them. they would lose badly to one team then stomp them the next game, or vice versa
can't help but feel you underestimate ice3 too much though. if you take into account ice3 as an overall player (not just 1v1!!), and compare him to rotk, i can't see why you wouldn't deem him an upgrade. one thing about ice3 is that even though by nature he's kinda trolly, this move to dk is sorta a last chance thing for him, since there just isn't any future for sg esports unless he moves to LoL.
this means he NEEDS to do at least decent at dk for other teams, eu or cn, to pick him up if he gets kicked/leaves from dk in the future. he knows it. and he knows how big this opportunity is, he'll definitely treasure it. sg is not an easy place to give up, we're a really sheltered bunch. the fact that he now moves to china even after much complaints during his short stay there is hopefully proof of this.
Most people seemed to have overlooked the fact that Zenith was running a new configuration during TI3. It was ymt in mid, xy to offlane and have ice3 play the carry role.
I know for a fact that ice3's native role is 3 (he told me), even he had said it so on his stream. He relishes the fact that he can play with so much more freedom and its towards his nature to be unpredictable in that role. He hates being stuck on farm duty and being stiffled, unable to create plays for his team early on.
Him moving to DK is a dream for him as all he wanted was a team that is 100% professional and can dedicate everything to the game. He will give his 100% I'm sure. Even if he does try some of his cheeky or flamboyant plays he can be confident in the fact that his amazingly individually skilled teammates will back him up.
All in all, this man will be involved the next new meta, the fresh change so needed in Chinese Dota.
i'm not underestimating icex3, even the highest level pros can speak to the fact that he is a good player rather i'm defending rotk because apparently the majority of the people think the switch between the two players is somehow the greatest thing to happen on DK. that's like a slap to the face seeing as how rotk actually performed REALLY well as a player during ti3 and improved drastically even considering the amount of dumb things he did, what did Icex3 do as a player aside from showing us a good invoker game that makes people think he would do better than rotk?
change can sometimes be good, i wouldn't even be surprised to see icex3 do well on DK but do not understate how important rotk was as player during DK's run.
On September 08 2013 08:20 Kuroeeah wrote: i'm not underestimating icex3, even the highest level pros can speak to the fact that he is a good player rather i'm defending rotk because apparently the majority of the people think the switch between the two players is somehow the greatest thing to happen on DK. that's like a slap to the face seeing as how rotk actually performed REALLY well as a player during ti3 and improved drastically even considering the amount of dumb things he did, what did Icex3 do as a player aside from showing us a good invoker game that makes people think he would do better than rotk?
change can sometimes be good, i wouldn't even be surprised to see icex3 do well on DK but do not understate how important rotk was as player during DK's run.
rOtk deserves a slap in the face in the form of iceiceice. For all the trolls and misgivings of iceiceice, he is still a far more consistent player than rOtk. Having watched DK game in and game out with the old lineup, it is absolutely infuriating to see just how many games rOtk had single-handedly thrown away.
Not to say rOtk hasn't played well during TI, not to dismiss all his contribution to the team, but iceiceice is an upgrade, however slight it might be.
On September 08 2013 08:20 Kuroeeah wrote: i'm not underestimating icex3, even the highest level pros can speak to the fact that he is a good player rather i'm defending rotk because apparently the majority of the people think the switch between the two players is somehow the greatest thing to happen on DK. that's like a slap to the face seeing as how rotk actually performed REALLY well as a player during ti3 and improved drastically even considering the amount of dumb things he did, what did Icex3 do as a player aside from showing us a good invoker game that makes people think he would do better than rotk?
change can sometimes be good, i wouldn't even be surprised to see icex3 do well on DK but do not understate how important rotk was as player during DK's run.
rOtk deserves a slap in the face in the form of iceiceice. For all the trolls and misgivings of iceiceice, he is still a far more consistent player than rOtk. Having watched DK game in and game out with the old lineup, it is absolutely infuriating to see just how many games rOtk had single-handedly thrown away.
Not to say rOtk hasn't played well during TI, not to dismiss all his contribution to the team, but iceiceice is an upgrade, however slight it might be.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Kupon3ss/China_teams/559245_552322441502394_53606.png)
Best of luck to him and Mushi. This train gona be heavy for YamateH to carry, hope HYHY make a come back.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ExoFLj5.jpg)
