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On October 23 2013 12:34 Kuroeeah wrote:
Would you tell me Wisp mid is garbage as well?
Its not great but Wisp is better than Luna in almost every aspect.
Wisp is a strength hero with more base hp, mana and longer attack range than Luna, it doesn't matter than Wisp has slightly lower move speed when you can last hit from a lot further away.
Wisp has an escape coupled with stun, Luna has no escape.
Wisp has spirits with huge range to harass mid and you can unload on anyone for 125 damage or 250 at level 2 that gets too close. Compare that to 75/150.
BKB is a core item on Luna, Wisp needs... level 6?
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On October 23 2013 12:34 Kuroeeah wrote:
Would you tell me Wisp mid is garbage as well?
Less "is garbage mid", more "does/should outright lose a whole lot of matchups". I can see that being less true for Io mid, but I've never actually tried it.
You could likely pick Io / Luna against certain mids and have them do fine, but to pick them blindly and declare them your mid is something that can go terribly wrong for Luna.
Then again, pubs mean anything is viable. I watched a TA go godlike today against a viper mid, solokilling him a number of times, out csing and generally outplaying him, despite the matchup being absolutely terrible for the TA.
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I don't know who it was, but last night I some pro game where Nightstalker after the first 10 minutes transitioned into the 3 position. I really think this is a great idea, he was never that great with a ton of items anyway. The night and ultimate changes just make him a great utility hero all game long.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
luna is pretty good vs melee mids but anything that can harass and slow her down (base movespeed is all the escape she has) can be trouble.
haven't played luna mid in a long time though so idk if bottle crowing for beams would make her better
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how I would lane luna is just exchange auto attacks and eventually you would harass them out of lane that way.
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On October 23 2013 15:08 Emnjay808 wrote:
how I would lane luna is just exchange auto attacks and eventually you would harass them out of lane that way.
If you're against someone with more range than you, that won't work. You can't trade autos with them because they can hit you without aggroing the creep wave, whereas you cannot hit them without aggroing the creepwave. Even though your damage is higher, anyone with more range will get more autoattacks in and is better able to control creep aggro.
Even in the case of melee mids, many of them have built in methods of avoiding harass, such as Bloodseeker's passive health gain, DK's dragon's blood, Nightstalker rushing a bottle, TA's shit range but refraction, etc.
Harassing the enemy out of lane as Luna is only going to work if you're laning against a mid even weaker than Luna, or if the person you're playing is just worse than you are.
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On October 23 2013 14:35 Reuental wrote:
I don't know who it was, but last night I some pro game where Nightstalker after the first 10 minutes transitioned into the 3 position. I really think this is a great idea, he was never that great with a ton of items anyway. The night and ultimate changes just make him a great utility hero all game long.
Uhm... Isn't this pretty normal and bound to happen due to the heroes design anyway?
NS isn't really a carry... At least not when compared to most other heroes with carry potential. He is a Roamer that can sometimes carry a game if he snowballs out of control... His Gold normally comes more from ganking, depending on your lineup he will end up as "3" automatically?
He normally starts the game as a 2 or even 1 Position, but you shouldn't compare him to Dragon Knight or other "carry"-mids, compare him to Spacecow or even Bloodseeker... Those "can" carry but thats not their role in the game.
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I LOVE this patch. Not cos of the nerfs to r[A]t dota but cos it gives a breath of fresh air, a change of tactics, a shift in metagame.
the reason for sc2's rapid decline is its absolute repetitiveness..same strats and builds - every game. This switch up really keeps the players honest in their strategy development. No one trick ponies will last this patch!
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played against skywarth mage just now as a tidehunter. I had a pipe, refresher orb, drums, tp-boots. Still almost undoable when they start spamming there spels. U need bkb i guess or ur dead, pipe works but is not enough most of the time. Like, in 4 seconds ur dead, skillspamspamspamspamspam
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Many people do not appreciate enough how strong Luna has become, her becoming first pick carry material in comp games shouldn't come off as too big of a surprise.
- Moon Glaive can now bounce back to a target it has passed through (consistency fix with dota 1)
- One of the VERY few heroes with over 1800 night vision
- Beam cap of Eclipse removed
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Some of Luna's mid lane problems can be solved by getting early levels in glaive bouncing.
It's similar to beastmaster mid with aura first.
You continually push but you win any manfights because you have creep advantage all the time.
It's a tradeoff for having the wave pushed towards the enemy tower most of the time, and in my opinion the advantages offset that disadvantage. You harass by auto attacks on the right creeps which lets glaives bounce over to the enemy hero. You don't pull aggro that way and it also kills the enemy creep wave forcing your enemy to not fight back because your creep wave is mostly intact.
I wouldn't put Luna mid if I had other options, though. You never lose solve all problems, you just replace them with others.
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013 12:04. Posts 1 PM Profile Quote Edit #
Like a lot of the changes but there is a bs in every game now. A bs was chasing me in the river today I was axe. I grabbed the hast rune and was like thank God im safe. Nope he chased me down even with the hast rune haha.
Also anyone try luna? Is her bounces great now?
Played enigma today. Got a scepter. Granted it is hard to get a sscepteron him due to you buying wards etc but his ult with scepter seems to be to game breaking late game.
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Ahm... Lunas Problem is low range, squishiness and lack of escape... Pushing your lane makes that even worse + your doing low DMG whiteout your Aura and need several levels in Glaives until you actually just "passively" hit the enemy hero consistently...
AND why not Dual/Trilane her and profit from her nuke and aura?
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Luna has great stats gains, and she benefits from levels greatly. She's a wee bit item dependant though. I would dual lane her mid with someone stacking ancients until she's ready to go.
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On October 23 2013 02:09 Nocticate wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 01:57 nojok wrote:
Is there any heroe able to outscale naix into lategame while still being lanable without a dual support? I would also like to mention that you can run naix in any lane so picking him early says absolutely nothing about your draft plan. I'm tired of naix, he's not fun outside of his ultimate. Weaver, Troll, TA (roughly equal, depends on other heroes more than anything else), Kunkka, Razor (kinda--he outscales N'aix by virtue of making N'aix weaker), Viper (same boat as Razor), and Luna can be run as a solo mid and far outscales N'aix. Also maybe Brood. But that's kinda iffy. N'aix can't deal with her pushing and I think in terms of manfighting it depends who is engaging on whom--infest bomb into abyssal will kill brood while an orchid silence plus abyssal can pretty easily ruin his day if it's 1v1.
it basically depends on who bashes first lol.
This is why I dislike abyssal so much. It turns lategame into a "who strikes first" positioning game. Infest bombs make the game boring to me.
On October 23 2013 01:05 SKC wrote:
The issue is that Phase gives terrible stats for a lot of supports. And armor on boots is very relevant, remember when Phase boots were ridiculous with 5 armor? Regen just isn't the key element of tranquils right now.
Obviously the utility isn't really there for carries, just like they often don't need the mana from mana boots. This just means there is another set of boots that gives stats they aren't after, not that it is a good boot that they are artificially denied acess to.
I miss carry necro so much!!!
Phase into VanGod, into heart/bloodstone was imba as hell.
On October 22 2013 18:06 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 17:44 Emnjay808 wrote:
Ive come to the conclusion that the new gold per second change has had the biggest impact on competitive and pub games.
I love it. speeds up item timings on supports, makes games more exciting
It feels like EM now.
On October 23 2013 04:31 CosmicSpiral wrote:
I wonder if more players will start to build Mjollnir for pushing lanes and clearing out jungle camps. The lightning proc doesn't work on ancients and mud golems, but the improvements to Static Charge and the AoE increase might make it worthwhile. It's already strong on certain characters like Dragon Knight, Void and Sniper.
I always get in heroes that usually buy battlefury. Mjolnir procs during omnislash hahaha. That and aghs turn that ulti into a free double kill during teamfights
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fucking slark, is fucked up. Gonna play slark until next patch :D
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Vatican City State2902 Posts
On October 23 2013 22:28 ImpromptuGangbang wrote:
Luna has great stats gains, and she benefits from levels greatly. She's a wee bit item dependant though. I would dual lane her mid with someone stacking ancients until she's ready to go.
Would a lich luna mid be too cheesy and weird? Because he's the main hero that I think of right now that you can dual mid with and not have significant exp problems without a lot of kills. And there's not really any single support that luna synergizes with extremely well.
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Instead of trying to compare Luna and Wisp as midlaners, why not go Radiant and put them both there? The mid-pull-camp is now medium sized, so Wisp will get more levels out of it than before, while conferring some security to Luna in lane.
I'm not necessarily in favour of running her mid, but it seems like the changes may make certain midlanes situationally favourable for her now.
While we're talking about Luna, I posted my thoughts/questions on her with regards to the new patch in her guide thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20041169. Any feedback on it? Trying to figure out if she's a stronger semi-carry now, and/or if she's a weaker hard carry.
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On October 24 2013 01:35 woreyour wrote:
fucking slark, is fucked up. Gonna play slark until next patch :D
On the topic of slark. What do people think about his new ult? Personally I'm kinda torn. 4 secs gauranteed invis is very strong, but I think I'm more a fan of the old spammable ult actually. I'm really having trouble finding the right moments to cast his ult now as I am so used to spamming it.
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On October 24 2013 02:03 Nocticate wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2013 22:28 ImpromptuGangbang wrote:
Luna has great stats gains, and she benefits from levels greatly. She's a wee bit item dependant though. I would dual lane her mid with someone stacking ancients until she's ready to go. Would a lich luna mid be too cheesy and weird? Because he's the main hero that I think of right now that you can dual mid with and not have significant exp problems without a lot of kills. And there's not really any single support that luna synergizes with extremely well.
It forces the enemy team to react. I like it. Giving Luna free farm an a good ancient stack is never a good idea.
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EPT
