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On October 18 2013 05:44 lagmaster wrote:Crazy patch. I have a couple questions though. Lich + Show Spoiler +
- Frost Armor has half effect against ranged heroes
- Frost Armor slow now stacks with the slow from Frost Nova
- Sacrifice cooldown increased from 35/30/25/20 to 44/36/28/20
- Sacrifice mana gain increased from 15/30/45/60% to 25/40/55/70%
- Sacrifice no longer denies enemy XP
- Sacrifice now converts your own creep for XP (shared in AoE as normal creep xp bounty)
Am I reading this right? Sacrificing one of your creeps gives you exp? If an enemy is nearby you both get the exp? Do you and an enemy hero split the exp from the sacrificed creep or do you both get the full value? It sounds like lich will be an even better mid/offlane hero. You just need to step back for a moment to sacrifice a creep before it gets into xp range of the enemy. Assuming you sacrifice a creep every 45 seconds (out of range for their exp), you'll have two full waves of creep exp over your opponent by the 6 minute mark. * Evasion now stacks diminishingly Does this stack in the same manner as vangaurd? Meaning that the effective damage block from 2 vang would bring your proc chance up to 90% from 70% (using old stats). How much evasion would you get from two butterflies as opposed to one? How much evasion would a pa with 6 butterflies have? Phantom Assassin + Show Spoiler +
- Stifling Dagger shares the same crit chance/factor as Coup de Grace
- Stifling Dagger is now dodgeable
- Stifling Dagger damage rescaled from 50/100/150/200 to 60/100/140/180
I started playing meepo quite a bit and have become pretty confident with him. The removal of the 30% stat sharing is a shame, but a 2nd meepo at level 4 seems pretty big. I'm thinking I would use my 2nd meepo to stack jungle camps, But a good rune or a smoke with some stunner allies could definitely get some early kills. Solo mid meepo looks much more powerful. I would say the biggest winners from this patch are (in no real order): Broodmother, Lich, Bloodseeker and Meepo. Biggest losers are: Alchemist, Furion and Visage. All the junglers will be sad at the reduced gold, but Furion was the only one with a straight nerf.
on creeps yes. on heroes it's half iirc, so not that op.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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On October 18 2013 05:52 Spekulatius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 05:44 lagmaster wrote:Crazy patch. I have a couple questions though. Lich + Show Spoiler +
- Frost Armor has half effect against ranged heroes
- Frost Armor slow now stacks with the slow from Frost Nova
- Sacrifice cooldown increased from 35/30/25/20 to 44/36/28/20
- Sacrifice mana gain increased from 15/30/45/60% to 25/40/55/70%
- Sacrifice no longer denies enemy XP
- Sacrifice now converts your own creep for XP (shared in AoE as normal creep xp bounty)
Am I reading this right? Sacrificing one of your creeps gives you exp? If an enemy is nearby you both get the exp? Do you and an enemy hero split the exp from the sacrificed creep or do you both get the full value? It sounds like lich will be an even better mid/offlane hero. You just need to step back for a moment to sacrifice a creep before it gets into xp range of the enemy. Assuming you sacrifice a creep every 45 seconds (out of range for their exp), you'll have two full waves of creep exp over your opponent by the 6 minute mark. * Evasion now stacks diminishingly Does this stack in the same manner as vangaurd? Meaning that the effective damage block from 2 vang would bring your proc chance up to 90% from 70% (using old stats). How much evasion would you get from two butterflies as opposed to one? How much evasion would a pa with 6 butterflies have? Phantom Assassin + Show Spoiler +
- Stifling Dagger shares the same crit chance/factor as Coup de Grace
- Stifling Dagger is now dodgeable
- Stifling Dagger damage rescaled from 50/100/150/200 to 60/100/140/180
I started playing meepo quite a bit and have become pretty confident with him. The removal of the 30% stat sharing is a shame, but a 2nd meepo at level 4 seems pretty big. I'm thinking I would use my 2nd meepo to stack jungle camps, But a good rune or a smoke with some stunner allies could definitely get some early kills. Solo mid meepo looks much more powerful. I would say the biggest winners from this patch are (in no real order): Broodmother, Lich, Bloodseeker and Meepo. Biggest losers are: Alchemist, Furion and Visage. All the junglers will be sad at the reduced gold, but Furion was the only one with a straight nerf. on creeps yes. on heroes it's half iirc, so not that op.
Yeah, it only crits for 400 pure damage against heroes.
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I don't even play Dota.... But whaaat? This is like the equivalent of changing mineral collection rate per trip, changing game speed, starting with 2 workers instead of 6, changing attack/def/as on every single unit. Getting rid of a barracks, and adding a First person view of your units mode?
Lol... This is like completely relearning the game. Wow. Ballsy, I don't like such drastic changes, but it seems like Valve has been heading in the right direction with the game over the last few years, right?
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On October 18 2013 05:55 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I don't even play Dota.... But whaaat? This is like the equivalent of changing mineral collection rate per trip, changing game speed, starting with 2 workers instead of 6, changing attack/def/as on every single unit. Getting rid of a barracks, and adding a First person view of your units mode?
Lol... This is like completely relearning the game. Wow. Ballsy, I don't like such drastic changes, but it seems like Valve has been heading in the right direction with the game over the last few years, right?
Balance is all handled by one person, Mr. Icefrog. Valve just handles implementation and making money.
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Still cant decide if Alchemist change its a buff or a nerf, losing the HP its HUGE but +100HP regen at lvl 16 ?
LICH changes :D !!!
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The one thing I worry about is actually the creep equilibrium change. It almost removes the concept of safe and off lanes. It even looks like it might be easier to gank the "safe" lane than the "off" lane now (you can backstab through their jungle, otherwise you're just walking up the river onto the bridge). I liked the assymmetry alot when I switched from League.
[EDIT]
Actually, looking at the image again, they meet CLOSER to the offlane tower. Between that and the nerf to pulling it's almost like the safe and hard lanes are swapped now.
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Lalalaland34492 Posts
On October 18 2013 05:55 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I don't even play Dota.... But whaaat? This is like the equivalent of changing mineral collection rate per trip, changing game speed, starting with 2 workers instead of 6, changing attack/def/as on every single unit. Getting rid of a barracks, and adding a First person view of your units mode?
Lol... This is like completely relearning the game. Wow. Ballsy, I don't like such drastic changes, but it seems like Valve has been heading in the right direction with the game over the last few years, right?
This patch is one helluva whopper, but we've had patches coming close to this in the past in Dota.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On October 18 2013 05:58 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 05:55 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I don't even play Dota.... But whaaat? This is like the equivalent of changing mineral collection rate per trip, changing game speed, starting with 2 workers instead of 6, changing attack/def/as on every single unit. Getting rid of a barracks, and adding a First person view of your units mode?
Lol... This is like completely relearning the game. Wow. Ballsy, I don't like such drastic changes, but it seems like Valve has been heading in the right direction with the game over the last few years, right? This patch is one helluva whopper, but we've had patches coming close to this in the past in Dota.
IceFrog isn't afraid of jack
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On October 18 2013 05:55 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I don't even play Dota.... But whaaat? This is like the equivalent of changing mineral collection rate per trip, changing game speed, starting with 2 workers instead of 6, changing attack/def/as on every single unit. Getting rid of a barracks, and adding a First person view of your units mode?
Lol... This is like completely relearning the game. Wow. Ballsy, I don't like such drastic changes, but it seems like Valve has been heading in the right direction with the game over the last few years, right?
It not changes the rules, the board is still the same. It still dota, but more action packed(maybe). At the end of the day we still pick 5 heroes and try to wreck eachothers houses.
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On October 18 2013 05:57 Faruko wrote:
Still cant decide if Alchemist change its a buff or a nerf, losing the HP its HUGE but +100HP regen at lvl 16 ?
LICH changes :D !!!
It's a nerf.
Thank god.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On October 18 2013 05:55 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I don't even play Dota.... But whaaat? This is like the equivalent of changing mineral collection rate per trip, changing game speed, starting with 2 workers instead of 6, changing attack/def/as on every single unit. Getting rid of a barracks, and adding a First person view of your units mode?
Lol... This is like completely relearning the game. Wow. Ballsy, I don't like such drastic changes, but it seems like Valve has been heading in the right direction with the game over the last few years, right?
I kind of prefer this method of patching.
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On October 18 2013 05:44 lagmaster wrote:
Lich
- Sacrifice now converts your own creep for XP (shared in AoE as normal creep xp bounty)
I started playing meepo quite a bit and have become pretty confident with him. The removal of the 30% stat sharing is a shame, but a 2nd meepo at level 4 seems pretty big. I'm thinking I would use my 2nd meepo to stack jungle camps, But a good rune or a smoke with some stunner allies could definitely get some early kills. Solo mid meepo looks much more powerful.
I would say the biggest winners from this patch are (in no real order): Broodmother, Lich, Bloodseeker and Meepo.
i completely agree with you
lich and meepo are huge, especially meepo
first, the earthbind net cast is faster, it finally feels like a dota 1 meepo net cast, so much easier to land a net
second, a level 4 = 2nd meepo is the biggest and most relavant change
this change SYNCS WELL with jungle creep xp sharing
the presence of meepo all over the map is that much more rewarding
i careless about the 30% stat sharing, i dont need that (agh gives 100% that's all i care)
i am 100% meepo fan
and seeing meepo getting buffed this big is really something i like
anyway... LIKE!!!!
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
I just want to play the new patch.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On October 18 2013 05:47 Plansix wrote:
It's nuts that some heroes can see farther at night. That is going to lead to some great ganks.
this has always been the case you know
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On October 18 2013 05:32 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 05:18 SupLilSon wrote:On October 18 2013 04:52 Shaella wrote:On October 18 2013 04:49 Pjorren wrote:
Please rebuff the jungle asap... I HATE playing solo queue dual lane! no pub junglers need to die What, you'd rather have 2 uncoordinated, failing sidelanes every game? Idk about everyone else but I'd take a pub jungler over that mess any day. Chances of side lanes to TP to help another lane, gang, push, buy utility items like wards, dust, mek are 10x higher than those in woods. Chances of 0 0 0 jungler with all their T2 downs are pretty high on the other hand.
That depends on the player not the role...
On October 18 2013 05:33 Plansix wrote:
Being friendly and helpful always world out for me. But to each their own.
Who said I'm not friendly and helpful... pretty nasty thing to assume.
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On October 18 2013 05:59 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 05:55 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I don't even play Dota.... But whaaat? This is like the equivalent of changing mineral collection rate per trip, changing game speed, starting with 2 workers instead of 6, changing attack/def/as on every single unit. Getting rid of a barracks, and adding a First person view of your units mode?
Lol... This is like completely relearning the game. Wow. Ballsy, I don't like such drastic changes, but it seems like Valve has been heading in the right direction with the game over the last few years, right? I kind of prefer this method of patching.
But he quite literally changed 1,000 variables at once... How can he know this will be better than what was before... Geez, when in SC2 we change two things at once, often the expected outcome is nothing like the predicted outcome. Resetting the meta-game this badly will take months to find what optimal is? There's like a 100 heroes, how do you find the 5 that will be the most effective in a short period of time... The next 2 months at least are going to be total wtf shows. Like not knowing when Roshan respawns? Totally changes strategy of where you position yourself...
This is interesting to say the least. Hope to see it work, but hope to see Navi still winning.
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Why remove mortal strike active for skeleton king? Now all you do is stun people.. Enough heroes already have a regular critical strike with different percentages.
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I want to see videos of Storm Spirit in Ball Lightning being outrun by Bloodseeker at whatever his new crazy max is :D
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EPT
