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The thing that matters the most when it comes to Arteezy is that all the guys he has played with seem to think that he is at the very least close to the most mechanically skilled player they've played with, and that in his only LAN this far he played very well after the first day and won the entire thing. Making any judgements about his play based on his stream or even random sadboys official games is in my opinion very misguided, because he doesn't seem to care all that much and makes silly decisions (and often laughs about it beforehand). When they start facing the best European teams, and especially when they face other teams on LAN in the future, one can say how good he actually is.
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I don't know spudde. I have heard people say that they would put good money on saocyn to beat RTZ 1v1 SF. What is an LAN win over DK compared to that?
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Rofl. Overall it's strange how much value many people in this scene seem to put into online performances, many even cite pub performances as evidence. Coming from a cs 1.6 background, it was standard to think that only LAN matters, and there actually were some teams that were very mediocre online and constantly top3 on LAN. Nowadays sure internet issues are not as frequent and online play is more even, but dota has cross server play with huge pings. In addition teams play so many official games and when you take into account their practice games, it's no wonder that players may not be so into it and make stupid plays at times. The situation is totally different on LAN when everyone is trying their best, and Arteezy has a pretty solid record this far.
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Online performance kinda matter, I think, just because there are like four LAN tournaments a year. And in order to get into them, you have to win online qualifiers. If you have a consistent record of being unable to play online - Scarlett, for instance, is pretty bad in major online matches because her connection from her home in Canada is hilariously poor - then you'll have many fewer opportunities to play on LAN.
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EG curse, EG curse, EG curse.
Will history repeat itself?... I wonder.
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On February 23 2014 00:24 meemsbror wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2014 23:06 govie wrote:On February 22 2014 19:52 Mandalor wrote:On February 22 2014 19:39 saocyn wrote:On February 22 2014 08:20 GranDGranT wrote:On February 22 2014 08:01 SnowfaLL wrote:On February 22 2014 06:20 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Fear stepping down as captain in my view can only be a good thing. We've been through three or four EG incarnations that have suffered from a lack of leadership in game, and really it's been since Maelk was active that EG's coordination and tactics have matched their play in lanes. I do wonder about zai and ppd's skill level compared to Fogged and MSS, but ppd seems to have been the guy making the strat calls and keeping everything together for Sadboys, so even if there is a step down in skill it seems to be worth it. I suppose my biggest question is about rtz and whether his mouth will get him in trouble once he signs. ppd is a HoN vet, im sure his experience in running a team is more than most western players. Seems like EG wanted another polarizing "IdrA" type figure, and Arteezy is their selection. The similarities are quite striking. I'm positive EG as an organization took a huge hit when they fired IdrA (even if it needed to be done) I wouldnt put it quite that way even though its close (arteezy part). Also, Yes Peterpandam Started in HoN and was known as a scrub for a longgggg time but Sneyking stuck by his side for a ñlong time and he began to get quite good, he played with sneyking/swindlemelonzz for probably 1-2 years and was by far the best support player by the time he decided to leave. I think there is actually VoDs of us playing HoN on my twitch channel. The fact you are saying they are taking a Skill cut is absurd. Fogged I would say is definately the most skilled player EG had but they used him as a support player for some reason (other players sucked at support I suppose). in HoN Fogged was one of thee best Offlane/Mids along with Korok and All of Fnatic. But for playing Support PPD is an amazing Warder/Laner. Zai is by far "another Arteezy" if we are going by age. Hes only 16 and hes won massive amounts of Tournies back in HoN and is by far the most Technically skilled of EG now. Once His Visage and Chen become Better I would put him at the top of 4 players. As for The Idra/Arteezy thing, Its not hard to see that Arteezy is by far a top 3 mid player. Hes not even that bad mannered and definately doesnt do stupid shit in tournaments. People seem to think if your good and "Bad mannered" you are the next idra. Arteezy doesn't rage quit tourney games nor throw on purpose if he sees something wrong. Much like every other Dota player (See ixmike or really anyone) they trash talk people over Twitter for fun and also Shit talk in Pubs, The thing about that is everyone does it in Dota 2. Also Though its not really related, People should watch out for JiggleBilly on Ehug along with MSS, Should be a good duo. whoa slow down there buddy. i'm not sure if you watch only the na scene but there are alot of things you've got wrong. arteezy doesn't make it top anything in terms of mid. nor does the unknown hon player who transitioned into dota 2. you would be discounting the likes of ferarri, fy, cty, mushi, dendi, yaphets, fear, etc. not to mention it seems you know NOTHING about who the mid champs in NA are. relic, uni, and those who are associated to those 2. i've been watching arteezy's sf and mid for a while and if it came down to 1v1s at this point i'd put good money i'd win against him. if he didn't beat relic? yeah there's no way he's going to beat the people who are better than relic. if we're talking about being a good mid player that works with the team well i'd agree with you, but in terms of technical 1v1 skill, he doesn't make the list rofl, please don't talk about topics you don't know, it's making you lose credibility. and 2nd, hon is NOT dota. yeah they're alike, doesn't mean the skill transfers. it's as laughable as the statement made by select when he joined dota 2 "there are things you can abuse with apm that people don't know about" and this comes from a guy who was at one point friends with select. the notion that skill in 1 similar game correlates to skill in another automatically is misguided. Well most people would disagree with you. Not quite sure who you are, but GrandGrant has been close to the NA pros for like a decade now. The fact that you seem to judge rtz's skill based on his pub games and discard other people's opinion as plain wrong is pretty funny to me. Just because someone has shown potential, doesnt mean he is as good as frequent proven potential like dendi, mushis etcetc. Proven and frequently shown isnt the same. Is rtz a one day fly, i dont think so but you cant compare him with the bignames yet. He's a good player, a bit overated in my opinion. But defenitely okay to be in a top team! To say that he is one of the best solo mids etc is really exageration, he played like 10 games in a high level LAN, you need way more to compare him to Dendi, s4 or FATA
I see what you did there.
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On February 23 2014 09:32 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Online performance kinda matter, I think, just because there are like four LAN tournaments a year. And in order to get into them, you have to win online qualifiers. If you have a consistent record of being unable to play online - Scarlett, for instance, is pretty bad in major online matches because her connection from her home in Canada is hilariously poor - then you'll have many fewer opportunities to play on LAN.
His point was online performance is often a poor judgement of a player or team's skill. For example, Bamboe/Bone7's garbage computers, USW to Lux ping, and teams like Navi, Fnatic and TL who look completely different online/offline. Of course online performance matters in the strictest sense of the word, especially to teams and sponsors, but as a judgement of skill it's not a great indicator.
I'll reserve judgement on EG for now. Yeah, they've been crushing their opponents and have played TL/Empire and beaten them both, but it's happened time and again when a new team on the scene get good results early, especially coinciding with a new patch, only to fall flat later. LGD.int is the first to come to mind; hell, even QPAD won their first tourney with their void/kunkka strat. EG with bamboe looked really good for about 3 days, when liquid just got qojqva they looked unstoppable. Long term success is much harder when teams figure out your playstyle. Even speed's success at MLG, no one knew what to do vs rtz midas mid every game with random ass heroes for sing offlane and doom/clinkz carry not to mention speed was still a relatively new team at the time.
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On February 23 2014 11:58 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 09:32 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Online performance kinda matter, I think, just because there are like four LAN tournaments a year. And in order to get into them, you have to win online qualifiers. If you have a consistent record of being unable to play online - Scarlett, for instance, is pretty bad in major online matches because her connection from her home in Canada is hilariously poor - then you'll have many fewer opportunities to play on LAN. His point was online performance is often a poor judgement of a player or team's skill. For example, Bamboe/Bone7's garbage computers, USW to Lux ping, and teams like Navi, Fnatic and TL who look completely different online/offline. Of course online performance matters in the strictest sense of the word, especially to teams and sponsors, but as a judgement of skill it's not a great indicator.
Without intending offense, duh. But it's real easy to go too far in the 'it doesn't matter what happens online' direction. Online is where a lot of the money is, and it's a gatekeeper to all of the money - full stop - in the game. If you can't play well online, for whatever reason, be it motivation or technical reasons, then you are less valuable than an equally skilled player who can. That's been a lesson from Dota all the way back to like 2006.
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On February 23 2014 13:01 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 11:58 Count9 wrote:On February 23 2014 09:32 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Online performance kinda matter, I think, just because there are like four LAN tournaments a year. And in order to get into them, you have to win online qualifiers. If you have a consistent record of being unable to play online - Scarlett, for instance, is pretty bad in major online matches because her connection from her home in Canada is hilariously poor - then you'll have many fewer opportunities to play on LAN. His point was online performance is often a poor judgement of a player or team's skill. For example, Bamboe/Bone7's garbage computers, USW to Lux ping, and teams like Navi, Fnatic and TL who look completely different online/offline. Of course online performance matters in the strictest sense of the word, especially to teams and sponsors, but as a judgement of skill it's not a great indicator. Without intending offense, duh. But it's real easy to go too far in the 'it doesn't matter what happens online' direction. Online is where a lot of the money is, and it's a gatekeeper to all of the money - full stop - in the game. If you can't play well online, for whatever reason, be it motivation or technical reasons, then you are less valuable than an equally skilled player who can. That's been a lesson from Dota all the way back to like 2006.
Well... yes, if you have = skill at lan and < skill in online tourneys you're gonna be worth less than someone with = skill at lan and > skill in online tourneys... The more interesting question, and the relevant one, is do you take someone much better online than at lan or much better at lan than online. I'd take the latter every time as lan is a much more trying test and it's easier to get someone a PC or better ping or w/e problem they have at home sorted out than teach someone to focus through a crowd booing them or not tilting/how to ride the momentum. Plus the biggest tourneys all end in lans, and usually just qualifying doesn't take ridiculously good play whereas actually getting first place does.
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And yet this announcement is the direct result of EG losing in an online qualifier, and then failing to keep their composure and motivation in online events. It's EG, so someone who's got technical problems or connection issues isn't going to be a problem.
Motivation is definitely a thing though. EG is pretty close to having their Dota 2 division be a laughingstock, a joke. They don't have laurels to rest on. They need to win. Like, anything. LANs would be nice, but beggars can't be choosers. If Arteezy is Dendi, someone who raises his game for LANs but maintains a consistently high standard, that's awesome. I'm not saying he's not. I have no idea and neither does anyone else. But EG can't afford any more double-Blink-on-QoP-because-it's-funny shit. 2014 has to be a year where EG establishes themselves as actually mattering again. After that they can figure out how to optimize the roster for LANs; right now, it needs to be about winning whatever the hell they can.
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Of course online performances matter. But if one watches most of the games sadboys/eg plays, there are a lot of cross server games, a lot of games in MLG TKO or whatever league where the games at this stage of the competition don't even really matter, or some quarter finals in whatever Bigpoint Battle #999 (as an over the top example). My opinion is that one should put very little weight on performances in these games when people are talking whether a player or a team is good, when either there is nothing on the line or there is a massive ping difference. Yet there are people who watch Xboct dive the t3 in some Starseries regular season game with the t1 still up like he couldn't care less about the game, and then cite that as evidence when they say Xboct is not a reliable carry.
When there are qualifiers to important competitions, or pure online events with significant prize pools (and we are talking about later knockout rounds between good teams), yes I agree that the games do matter. However, I still would't use cross server games between Arteezy and others to decide whether Arteezy is better than someone 1v1.
To add to this, the reason I was talking about Arteezy being highly regarded by everyone who has played with him in a team is that it is a much more reliable way of assessing whether someone is really good than watching him in random games. If you play with someone every day, you will know whether he is really good or not.
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I don't really disagree, except to say that the main difference is this. Xboct can do whatever the fuck he wants online, because he's a two-time finalist and former winner of The International. Navi wins a ton of shit all the time, and when they aren't winning they're usually finishing pretty high up. So if Na'vi crashes out of an online tournament, most reasonable people kinda shrug and wait for the next one. And then The International happens and they make a deep run somehow. They have that pedigree.
EG's pedigree, for basically a year, has been mostly failure and choking. So the point I'm making is that EG really doesn't have the luxury of time with their lineups. They need results. They can't think of any of their matches as valueless. The instant the new lineup blows a lead against a weaker team, all the same jokes and questions about throwing and #hardwork will come back. And that's pretty bad for the brand.
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This argument is so stupid
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We can agree that rtz has the best playlists.
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Is Universe's #motivation in question?
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Apparently not enough #dedication
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Well you know, there has got to be someone out there with enough #dedication to fill in his spot.
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But will they #bleedblue?
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He just hasn't been putting the #hardwork that his teammates have so it is not surprising.
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EPT
