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Netherlands45349 Posts
Its mostly just for the lightning Damage, my build is based a ton around lightning damage(Thundergods vigor belt pls).
Blessed Hammer Justice Provoke
All have the lightning rune.
The stun and aoe on burst is nice but just a bonus. During my burst cycle of Champion, Law and Provoke(Provoke actually makes me do a ton of damage as Lightning as well) I only use Justice like a couple times times(with fast attack speed) before I go back to Blessed Hammer.
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http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Valle-2444/hero/38453889
is my build right now (swap out iron maiden for lord commander)
I really tried other spenderabilites than blessed hammer, but everything felt underwhelming. The Fires of Heaven Rune with Heavens Fury is great, but its so hard to generate wrath that I swapped it out again.
On higher difficulties or grpplay I swap out Steed Charge for Law of Valor with LoH or Crit or Akarat's Champion with Rally.
Overall I feel like a lot of Generators/Spenders are not on par with other classes, I'm also missing runes/passives for higher wrath generation since a lot of spenders break on the high cost in comparison to the low generation
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On April 01 2014 18:15 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 16:16 NeoIllusions wrote:On April 01 2014 08:35 Kipsate wrote:DH/Barb etc are all way faster but my crusader can do T1 at a decent rate Hammerdin build with lightning dmg http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kipsate-1495/hero/44166749Provoke is strong for both wrath regen and damage(since wrath regen sucks you kinda need this) Spam hammers, use Law of Valor and Champion if you want to go to town(use them often since the CDS are short) Steed for mobility because Crusader is slow as hell(put your Paragon in 10% MS asap), if you don't mind the slowness then you can get Bombardment to destroy Elite Packs. But yeah still very medicore compared to Wizards, Barbs DHs and Monks don't know about WD because I never see one. At T2 and above I either can't clear fast enough or I die to make it worth doing. Why Long Arm of the Law? Seems like a mediocre passive. I'd take Finery, Hold Your Ground, or even Wrathful with your setup. where does the healing in there come from? i thought holy cause is basically core on crusader anyways i have 34% CDR and use lord commander so bombard is pretty much up for every single fight i need it in. i haven't really tried to go past expert on HC yet since i don't have a pair of phase boots, what do you do when you get walled in? pop steed and pray you can path out?
I never had an issue pathing out with steed. What is really irritating is that steed has a long cooldown so you end up having to wait for the cooldown if you want to reengage.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
I just read that Long Arm of the Law is bugged and only increases the main skill's active effect by 5 seconds. In other words it only increases the attack speed duration on Law of Valor, but any runes like the crit damage on critical or the movement speed on wings of angels actually still lasts the regular time. I'm in class right now but as soon as I'm out I'll test this myself. If true Long Arm of the Law is pretty much a dead passive as far as I'm concerned, and I use it now.
Edit: Okay in testing I can verify that Wings of Angels and Eternal Hope on Law of Hope does not benefit from Long Arm of the Law, and that Invincible and Critical on Law of Valor does, as well as Faith's Armor and Immovable Object on Law of Justice. So it seems the bug is with Law of Hope only (that I could test at least).
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Caldeum1977 Posts
With the new patch Crusaders got a lot of changes. First off DO NOT use blessed shield with the shattering throw rune because it is bugged and can rebound at you and kill you. Hardcore players beware.
The full patch notes can be found here but the crusader-specific notes I've posted below. The general theme is that most everything got a damage buff, and Crusaders have a 15% damage reduction now, however the design flaw of generating vs spending wrath has been glazed over. I used code so I wouldn't have to format it because I'm lazy.
Crusader
Philosophy Many of the Crusader's Wrath spenders are below where we would like, while Heaven's Fury - Fires of Heaven was over-performing. We are toning back Fires of Heaven while increasing the potency of most of the other Crusader spenders to encourage greater build exploration. The single-target Wrath generator spells, Punish and Justice, don't feel meaty compared to generators that can hit more than one target at a time. As a result, we are increasing the potency of Punish and Justice to be more competitive. We are making a few adjustments to improve Steed Charge. The cooldown and duration of the skill have both been reduced. Overall, this makes the total uptime for the skill slightly higher and, more importantly, you'll be able to hit the button more often. We're removing the ability for Steed Charge to break stuns, which allows us to focus on Steed Charge being primarily a mobility skill that can still get you out of root effects, such as Jailer. We still want Steed Charge to be useful in combat, so we're also increasing the damage on damage-focused runes. General Crusaders now take 15% less damage from all sources Active Skills Akarat's Champion Skill Rune - Rally Fixed an issue where Rally would not reduce the cooldown of Condemn Blessed Hammer Skill Rune - Burning Wrath Increased radius from 5 to 8 yards Increased pool damage from 95% to 150% weapon damage Skill Rune - Icebound Hammer Bug Fix: Fixed an issue where Icebound Hammer wasn't chilling enemies Icebound Hammer no longer goes away when exploding Blessed Shield Increased base skill damage from 280% to 340% weapon damage Skill Rune - Combust Increased damage from 105% to 270% weapon damage Skill Rune - Shattering Throw Increased damage from 50% to 333% weapon damage Known Issue: The tooltip for this skill rune does not reflect this change Fist of the Heavens Increased base skill's impact damage from 250% to 340% weapon damage Increased base skill's bolt damage from 210% to 340% weapon damage Skill Rune - Divine Well Increased damage from 14% to 80% weapon damage Increased bolt zap search radius from 12 to 18 yards Skill Rune - Fissure Increased area of effect damage from 80% to 400% weapon damage over 5 seconds Increased Arc capsule damage radius from 3 to 6 yards Skill Rune - Heaven's Tempest Bug Fix: Fixed an issue where Heaven's Tempest was not moving around in its intended pattern Heaven's Fury Skill Rune - Fires of Heaven Reduced damage from 950% to 735% weapon damage Justice Increased base skill damage from 175% to 240% weapon damage Skill Rune - Burst Increased damage from 25% to 30% weapon damage Skill Rune - Hammer of Pursuit Hammer of Pursuit now seeks targets more quickly after cast Increased damage from 200% to 300% weapon damage Phalanx Increased base skill damage from 295% to 380% weapon damage Skill Rune - Bowmen Increased damage from 85% to 160% weapon damage Skill Rune - Bodyguard Increased damage from 200% to 285% weapon damage Skill Rune - Shield Charge Increased damage from 75% to 180% weapon damage Skill Rune - Stampede Increased Stun chance from 25% to 30% Punish Increased base skill damage from 200% to 270% weapon damage Skill Rune - Retaliate Increased damage from 70% to 94% weapon damage Shield Bash Increased base skill damage from 325% to 370% weapon damage Skill Rune - Crumble Increased on death proc damage from 550% to 660% weapon damage Skill Rune - Pound Increased damage from 550% to 740% weapon damage Increased bonus damage from shield Block Chance from 150% to 500% Steed Charge Reduced base skill cooldown from 25 to 16 seconds Reduced base skill duration from 2 to 1.5 seconds No longer breaks Stun Skill Rune - Endurance Reduced duration from 3 to 2 seconds Skill Rune - Ramming Speed Increased damage from 475% to 515% weapon damage Skill Rune - Nightmare Bug Fix: Fixed an issue where the Fire pools were not lasting their full intended duration Skill Rune - Draw and Quarter Increased damage from 125% to 185% weapon damage Sweep Attack Increased base damage from 400% to 440% weapon damage Passive Skills Lord Commander Now reduces the cooldown of Steed Charge by 25% and Bombardment by 35%
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Fist of Heavens Fissure seems quite strong now, wrath regen is a lil bit low still tho
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On April 01 2014 23:31 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 18:15 rauk wrote:On April 01 2014 16:16 NeoIllusions wrote:On April 01 2014 08:35 Kipsate wrote:DH/Barb etc are all way faster but my crusader can do T1 at a decent rate Hammerdin build with lightning dmg http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kipsate-1495/hero/44166749Provoke is strong for both wrath regen and damage(since wrath regen sucks you kinda need this) Spam hammers, use Law of Valor and Champion if you want to go to town(use them often since the CDS are short) Steed for mobility because Crusader is slow as hell(put your Paragon in 10% MS asap), if you don't mind the slowness then you can get Bombardment to destroy Elite Packs. But yeah still very medicore compared to Wizards, Barbs DHs and Monks don't know about WD because I never see one. At T2 and above I either can't clear fast enough or I die to make it worth doing. Why Long Arm of the Law? Seems like a mediocre passive. I'd take Finery, Hold Your Ground, or even Wrathful with your setup. where does the healing in there come from? i thought holy cause is basically core on crusader anyways i have 34% CDR and use lord commander so bombard is pretty much up for every single fight i need it in. i haven't really tried to go past expert on HC yet since i don't have a pair of phase boots, what do you do when you get walled in? pop steed and pray you can path out? I never had an issue pathing out with steed. What is really irritating is that steed has a long cooldown so you end up having to wait for the cooldown if you want to reengage.
About steed i am guessing you dont know you can right click your buff to stop it? So what you say is totally wrong.
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On April 09 2014 15:30 ffswowsucks wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 23:31 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On April 01 2014 18:15 rauk wrote:On April 01 2014 16:16 NeoIllusions wrote:On April 01 2014 08:35 Kipsate wrote:DH/Barb etc are all way faster but my crusader can do T1 at a decent rate Hammerdin build with lightning dmg http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kipsate-1495/hero/44166749Provoke is strong for both wrath regen and damage(since wrath regen sucks you kinda need this) Spam hammers, use Law of Valor and Champion if you want to go to town(use them often since the CDS are short) Steed for mobility because Crusader is slow as hell(put your Paragon in 10% MS asap), if you don't mind the slowness then you can get Bombardment to destroy Elite Packs. But yeah still very medicore compared to Wizards, Barbs DHs and Monks don't know about WD because I never see one. At T2 and above I either can't clear fast enough or I die to make it worth doing. Why Long Arm of the Law? Seems like a mediocre passive. I'd take Finery, Hold Your Ground, or even Wrathful with your setup. where does the healing in there come from? i thought holy cause is basically core on crusader anyways i have 34% CDR and use lord commander so bombard is pretty much up for every single fight i need it in. i haven't really tried to go past expert on HC yet since i don't have a pair of phase boots, what do you do when you get walled in? pop steed and pray you can path out? I never had an issue pathing out with steed. What is really irritating is that steed has a long cooldown so you end up having to wait for the cooldown if you want to reengage. About steed i am guessing you dont know you can right click your buff to stop it? So what you say is totally wrong. Hmm, i think you didn't understand what he said. He is speaking about reengaging a pack with the cooldown up, because it is risky to engage withouth it, and it has a long cooldown. By the way, you can cancel it just shift+whatever skill.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
On April 09 2014 08:12 Kipsate wrote: Fist of Heavens Fissure seems quite strong now, wrath regen is a lil bit low still tho By the way, if you are in a group with multiple crusaders and everyone uses Fissure, they will connect to each other no matter who casts them, dealing a lot of extra damage.
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Gutted about the Fires of Heaven nerf. That build was so much fun. I can't really justify using it now until they fix the up down aiming thing, although they probably consider it a feature not an issue to be fixed so i'm not hopeful. With all the holy damage and heaven's fury junk on my gear that i'm forced to reroll away from, i think i'll go level another class and hope they fix the directional thing. I can cope with terrible spells when they're op, but if you 'balance' them they need to be more user friendly.
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does anyone know if the Phalanx summons scale like normal skills or like pets?
The Bowmen seem very strong singletarget to me, but i am still leveling. If they scale like skills(critdamage etc counts), they are very potent.
Also, Shieldbash needs a complete do-over, its almost impossible to hit the targeted mob with it as it pushes away first and then after half an eternetyit applies damage in a tiny zone.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
The block chance cap according to the sheet is 75% but i've read comments / posts from people stating one can get above this using active abilities like punish - so is the 75% cap just a gear (+ passiv) cap or can't i get above 75% no matter what?
//edit Asked in the Crusader ingame community chat - they also stated that one can go above the cap (with active abilities only). So grab block chance till cap - punish = gg? :D
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anyone tried a build where you proc a bunch of stuff at enemies from Roar and go permanent 3 stack nephalim buff?
Its pretty fun, only problem is that Rifts often lack the mob density for it.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
I've always been saying that Crusaders must use a 2H weapon to do any damage and I finally found a 1H flail that is making me rethink everything I know about Crusaders. The only reason I'm actually thinking about using it is because it has the game-changing effect of removing the resource cost of Blessed Shield - Gyrfalcon's Foote. I want to know what other people think just based off what they see here because after testing I'm still conflicted. Here is my profile - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Valiver-1742/hero/44044343
The weapons themselves - Sledge of Athskeleng 2884.2 dps 1.00 attacks per second 1067 Strength (rerolled from movement speed) 4244 Life per Hit Socket
Gyrfalcon's Foote 2259.6 dps 1.40 attacks per second 697 Strength 10% Reduced Resource costs +9 Maximum wrath Removes the resource cost of Blessed Shield Socket (rerolled from something)
2H build - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/crusader#WedlPi!SaiY!abYZaZ 1H build option 1 - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/crusader#SkQlPi!SUZh!YabZaZ 1H build option 2 - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/crusader#SPQlfi!ShZU!YbbZbZ
For direct damage comparisons - 2H is 823808 profile sheet dps and 1H is 616286 profile sheet dps. In game damage is about 1.08 million vs 823k sheet dps.
Damage on crits for each ability - Bowmen - 1.1 vs 2.2 million Condemn - 11 vs 18 million
My 2H build is probably very close to optimal, however my 1H builds are still in progress since so many abilities change. It's also strange trying to find the best wrath spender that is better than Blessed Shield and I'd almost just not have one at all except it just feels wrong.
General philosophy and pros/cons for each - 1H - I'm not restricted into using Heavenly Strength as a passive, which gives me another passive and 15% movement speed. - Everything in the builds are fully ranged except for Condemn (take that goblins and ghosts). - I don't need ANY wrath generation abilities since Blessed shield replaces Blessed Hammer as my main ability, so Provoke and Righteousness are gone for other stuff. - The wrath generating passives (and Heavenly Strength) are replaced with Renewal, Fervor, and Hold Your Ground, so I gain 10% attack speed on kill, 15% block chance (which increases Blessed Shield damage) and Renewal is basically 46% chance to heal me for 12k when I'm hit. - Better single target dps than Blessed Hammer, and no downtime for using Smite to get more wrath for main attack. - Not as reliable mass aoe as Blessed Hammer builds. - During long single target fights cooldowns will not do as much damage, however Blessed Shield will do enough damage to more than make up for it, and even do more than a Blessed Hammer build's damage.
2H - My sheet dps looks so much better - Each cooldown ability hits for much harder, which means the burst is higher. - Blessed Hammer is better aoe damage than Blessed Shield. - Provoke is good for rift groups where I can taunt enemies to save others. - In long single target fights I will run out of wrath and have to use Smite some, which lowers the dps, even though each cooldown will hit much harder. - The 4244 Life per Hit on the Sledge is worth a lot.
I'm slowly starting to think that the 1H is marginally better, and that my reluctance to using a 1H over a 2H is mostly just me resisting and systematically rejecting the idea that a 1H could be better than a 2H. There's also a small part of me that doesn't want my profile dps to look so low.
edit: there's also this shield: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/jekangbord that makes Blessed Shield bounce to 4-6 additional enemies. I don't have it (shields never drop) but if I did it might make the aoe of the 1H pass the 2H build.
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to bump this seemingly dead thread:
- are there any crusader players on tl? - if yes: which spec do you play/prefer? shotgun/foh fire/foh holy/captain america? - why? - which build do you think is stronger for high torment rifting?
currently, im gathering gear to start my crusader. already got 3 akhan pieces + rrog (even though its a shitty one...) atm, Im gambling for fate of the fell since i mostly want to try out the shotgun spec. got several clanmates that use shotgun and they always make my jaw drop when they go full beserker-rape mode on rift bosses.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I personally use Blessed shield Captain America with the Foote
I can run T5 quite comfortably but its not worth it for me to run T6. Crusader has a vast variety of builds and right now it appears as though Firestarter FoH fire build or Shotgun is the most used and strongest T6 build. I personally have not tried Shotgun as I have yet to come across one but I know Hoon uses it. I used to run FoH Lightning which was quite effective at T4, haven't tried it after getting 6p Akhans though but it worked fine(although suffered from wrath problems)
I like Blessed shield as it allows me to spam shit endlessly while retaining quite a bit of single target dmg in Phalanx and Heavens Fury, the most enjoyable parts of Blessed Shield is the way it bounces around doing tons of damage, you can spam it endlessly and shit happens.
I think the most important reason why I like Captain America build though is simply because it is different after having played FoH lightning for such a long time.
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I use shotgun, tried the other two, although with pretty badly rolled pieces.
I can farm T5 easily, T6 requires a bit of kiting so I dont think its worth it.
firestarter takes a few hits for the damage to start building up, so while it probably outdamages shotgun in solo play, it wont do as well with groups since frontloaded damage is more important there. your survivability is also a lot lower, so you would need to kite around a bit at higher torments.
BS Im not sure how good it is anymore after the aoe nerf, doesnt feel like the damage is as competitive on higher torment compared to the other two.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
I have an amazing Gyrfalcon and played blessed shield for over a month, but I got a fate of the fell last week. It's only a 2400 dps one and yet it puts that Gyrf to shame. The damage output is so much higher than blessed shield can ever do, and to be honest after so long using Gyrf it's just fun to do something different (not that blessed shield wasn't fun, but I was the same build for a month). I got a 2350 dps Darklight the other day that I'm going to try out soon, but for now I can say that Shotgun is easily better than Captain America for T5+. For T4 solo blessed shield did about the same and was an easy playstyle, but it couldn't handle single targets at all, and took over a minute to kill a rift guardian so higher wasn't efficient.
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