|
First batter up: Life Steal
Official post: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10039514450#5
Let's talk about combat.
From a big picture standpoint, it's not healthy for the game when a player's health pool goes from full to nearly empty and back to full on a regular basis very quickly, over and over, during regular play. I know not every character build plays this way - but I would assert that it's not good for the game when this is a dominant or even common way to play.
Why?
Here are a few negative effects it has:
1. A health pool that quickly goes from full to nearly empty implies that there's not a lot of room for variance in incoming damage. When incoming damage is that high, a 15% increase in monster damage would result in death. This leads to comments like "As soon as I turn up the Monster Power I get 1-shot". I'd like to see a game where a clever player can handle a higher Monster Power by reducing incoming damage through good play. Unfortunately, if the combat pacing and dominant builds are such that all players are geared to survive the biggest posisble hit from a monster and instantly heal to full then there's no room for that differentiation. Let's use mortar as a simple example. If a wave of mortar hits takes me from full to nearly dead, and then I instantly heal back to full, then mortars don't pose a realistic threat to me. In this state, there's no way for a clever player (who wants to dodge mortars) to differentiate themselves from somebody who doesn't care (and just decides to get hit). In both cases you're healing instantly to full and surviving through the damage no matter what, and in both cases turning up the monster power results in you dying no matter what if you take a single mortar wave. It becomes a pure gear check.
2. For players who push the MP up anyways, it makes the game feel like it was designed around one-shots. In my previous example with mortar, some of you may be thinking "There's room for turning up the Monster Power, just don't get hit at all!". This isn't great either. It means my death feels very binary. One moment I'm at full health, the next instant I'm dead. It also means that once you decide you are going to accept being one-shot, you don't care about your health at all. Who cares if you have 20K or 40K health if you're going to die either way? We'd be in a better place if the mortar-dodger was allowed to take the occasional hit, but can handle a higher monster power as long as a majority of them are dodged.
3. Healing very rapidly back to full also loses all the fidelity of small attacks. If players are regularly going from full to nearly empty and back to full again on a regular basis, then there's no room for mechanics which act as a slow drain on your health. Plagued is a great example of this. We don't want Plagued to be something that kills you quickly, but it also shouldn't be something you ignore forever. Standing in a pool of poison should be something that adds tension to the fight. You know you're not going to die now, but you can see the threat looming. When healing rates are very high, there is no room for the slow drain damage sources - they become insignificant.
4. My current health loses meaning. Being at 95% health should mean you're relatively safe. Being at 5% health should mean you're almost dead. Being at 50% health should mean you're somewhat in danger and you should play it safe, but as long as you do you should be fine. These are all concepts that make intuitive sense. Unfortunately, they are not at all true in the current Diablo environment. When health pools are rapidly going from empty to full and back again, these health values all blur together.
5. You lose a lot of tactical combat opportunities. Tactical combat requires that the player can properly assess the situation and react accordingly. When your health pool moves up and down rapidly you are no longer reacting to dangers. A rapidly changing health globe means you are playing in a predictable pattern and crossing your fingers hoping that you live through it. You are playing in a way that avoids situations that will instantly kill you, but there's no tension associated with being low on health that would cause you to make a tactical decision to change your play pattern.
I'm saying all of this without pointing at any specific solutions. That's because there are no instant-fix solutions. It's a challenging problem that we're actively working on. Things aren't going to be perfect overnight, but improving the pacing of combat is something we constantly work on.
I will say that the first line of defense is reducing the rate at which players heal. After we pull in the rate of healing, next we analyze the patterns in which monsters deal damage. Ultimately, defensive stats will play a role in all of this. If some life regeneration, damage mitigation or (gasp) life on hit lets me play a little more aggressively, that's a good thing.
|
I saw this yesterday and read it. I understand the reasoning behind it and lifesteal mechanics are something to be careful when implementing in a game.
But at some point when you factor 4 base difficulties, that each have 11difficulty levels, damage numbers are going to be insane and some characters are going to get die instantly. Lifesteal was supposed to be capped at 3% on a weapon and with the Inferno settings it already is reduced by 80% and this doesn't even allow you to hit reflect damage and not die.
I don't know what they are doing about lifesteal on weapons but class exclusive lifesteal on items and skills was one of the most moronic balance decision made i ever encountered in a game. I honestly think people that worked on the itemization, item balancing and gearing progression are incompetents and ruined the game.
Diablo 3 v1.0 Two handed weapons only had 3% LS, while dualwielding could go to 6.Same with CHD 100% max.
Barbarians have 3% on their class specific belt, a passive giving 3% and wizard have a rune on one of their buffs that gives 1.5%.
So a Witch Doctor can have a whopping 3% while a barbarian can run around with 12%, Yeah good luck balancing anything after that.
|
this is nice and all, but why are they doing this 2 years after release.
This should have been done in beta.
They had experience of 2 diablo games and there was also titan quest, sacred 1 and 2, tochlight 1.
Especially sacred 1 played exactly the same in endgame...gather a million mobs and then AE spam them down while your hopefully lifesteal enough while facetanking it.
Were they so arrogant to not look at other games? Or did they just not care?
|
They did try this but people complained that it was too easy. Then in inferno v 1.00, characters like dh that could avoid attacks were able to progress faster than melee characters. The barbs complained and they became the most overpowered class after patch 1.03. Almost everything they fucked up was the result of fan feedback.
|
On September 27 2013 01:25 andrewlt wrote:
They did try this but people complained that it was too easy. Then in inferno v 1.00, characters like dh that could avoid attacks were able to progress faster than melee characters. The barbs complained and they became the most overpowered class after patch 1.03. Almost everything they fucked up was the result of fan feedback.
I somewhat agree but if you remember May 2012, Barbarians were absolutely terrible, with almost no splash damage. Did they get overbuffed? Yeah for sure.
|
On September 27 2013 00:29 LaNague wrote:
this is nice and all, but why are they doing this 2 years after release.
This should have been done in beta.
They had experience of 2 diablo games and there was also titan quest, sacred 1 and 2, tochlight 1.
Especially sacred 1 played exactly the same in endgame...gather a million mobs and then AE spam them down while your hopefully lifesteal enough while facetanking it.
Were they so arrogant to not look at other games? Or did they just not care?
Because their previous game director was a fucking idiot.
|
On September 27 2013 00:29 LaNague wrote:
this is nice and all, but why are they doing this 2 years after release.
This should have been done in beta.
They had experience of 2 diablo games and there was also titan quest, sacred 1 and 2, tochlight 1.
Especially sacred 1 played exactly the same in endgame...gather a million mobs and then AE spam them down while your hopefully lifesteal enough while facetanking it.
Were they so arrogant to not look at other games? Or did they just not care?
we got Jay Wilson'd, director of the auction rpg
|
It kind of irks me that he would try to defend a subjective point from almost every angle. This is a horrendous mindset from a developer side and has because a trend almost for Blizzard titles (D3, sc2).
While this one doesn't really strike me as arrogance that the sc2 ones(devs) usually display, it's just more or less a flawed view.
Percentage Leech can most certainly be tuned to an appropriate level. Current LoH (Life on hit) items are functioning almost exactly as what he sees as a problem. A lot of items' worth are even determined by this stat.
If you look at D2 for example, leech is a mechanic that made the game what it is. Arguments could even be made that it was mandatory for some physical classes, but the point is that it was a game-identifying mechanic.
If you took what he said and applied it to another game, it's basically saying a game is shit because X, where not only is X being independently isolated, but also ill-represented in the argument.
I am disappoint.
|
On September 27 2013 01:25 andrewlt wrote:
They did try this but people complained that it was too easy. Then in inferno v 1.00, characters like dh that could avoid attacks were able to progress faster than melee characters. The barbs complained and they became the most overpowered class after patch 1.03. Almost everything they fucked up was the result of fan feedback.
Dont you dare.
Fans said that D2 was too easy, nobody even suggested that D3 should be literally 1000 times harder. In D2 most ranged monsters were attacking for ~30-50 DMG and melee for 150 DMG at most... They didnt always hit and you could block attacks fully, had 1500-3000 HP and 16 pots in belt to regain full health.
Vanilla D3 between 30 sec cooldown on pots that gave close to no HP and monsters that were almost 1 shooting even wizards literally went from "you are allowed to take 3000 hits before dying" to "you are allowed to take 1-2 hits before dying" without any prior testing or any theoretical studies at all.
So dont fucking blame this on fans, it was all Devs fault.
What I dont understand is what is OP about... Is it supposed to be about current state or state after release? If latter, then I must honestly say I for the most part have no Idea what are you talking about.
EDIT: NVM I just used link and realized that its actually Blizzard post... I still honestly have no idea what are they talking about...
Maybe its because there is close to zero death penalty in softcore so people always play on highest MP no matter gear, hoping for some drops?
Isnt then solution to simply add death penalty and give people a reason to not play just on MP7-10? I dont really know how this works on softcore, but as a hardcore player I feel like they are talking about different game...
|
On September 27 2013 00:29 LaNague wrote:
this is nice and all, but why are they doing this 2 years after release.
This should have been done in beta.
They had experience of 2 diablo games and there was also titan quest, sacred 1 and 2, tochlight 1.
Especially sacred 1 played exactly the same in endgame...gather a million mobs and then AE spam them down while your hopefully lifesteal enough while facetanking it.
Were they so arrogant to not look at other games? Or did they just not care?
Actually, before patch 1.04 people were complaining a lot for the opposite reason, since life steal was considered inferior to loh.
Wyatt Cheng's response:
To make a long story short, Life Steal is tuned around where we expect DPS output to be months from now. As people do more damage, get more survivability, and generally find they can AOE things more than they used to, I expect the value of Life Steal to go up.
The real problem is what happened next. Buffed droprates, insanely buffed skills, overpowered legendaries, all items able to roll lv63 affixes (cc went from 4.5 to 6% on rings for example), black damage bug, crafted items with 100-130 bonus mainstat, etc. Today's average dps is probably at least double what the devs expected to be when they tuned life steal.
|
|
|
Is this really what the whining community has pushed Blizzard to do? Well you know what, this outcome is far more deserving than the Pez 2 one (Fuck you, I'm out), this feel much more of a "Fuck you, if this is what you want, then here you go".
|
Yea, I remember when the IAS nerf was made I thought it was just to reduce Life on Hit's effectiveness heh. I think if all they did was remove crit damage, life steal could stay the same, but who knows.
|
lifesteal is ok-ish
they have to nerf CRIT in general. you cant play diablo without massing crit. there is no build out there. this is shit.
|
If they don't like the way we play their game then change it and stop telling us what we do is not intended!
|
On September 27 2013 04:08 Big G wrote:
The real problem is what happened next. Buffed droprates, insanely buffed skills, overpowered legendaries, all items able to roll lv63 affixes (cc went from 4.5 to 6% on rings for example), black damage bug, crafted items with 100-130 bonus mainstat, etc. Today's average dps is probably at least double what the devs expected to be when they tuned life steal.
I think this is the real problem: they designed LL with 1.00 in mind but then nerfed inferno, introduced mlvl, new legendaries (witching hour anyone?), better items and suddenly the damage exploded.
I don't think they designed LL for 200k dps chars. It is just natural that they fix it now.
|
Datamined Stat Caps (first passthrough on closed PTR)
Critical Hit Chance - *You may have a maximum of +40.00% Critical Hit Chance from items.
Critical Hit Damage - *You may have a maximum of +250.00% Critical Hit Damage from items.
Attack Speed - *You may have a maximum of +40.00% Attack Speed from items.
Movement Speed - *You may have a maximum of +25.00% movement speed from items
Block Chance - *You may have a maximum of 75.00% Block Chance.
Gold Find - *You may have a maximum of +300.00% Gold Find.
Magic Find - *This increase is diminished for rare and legendary and set items.
Magic Find - *You may have a maximum of +300.00% Magic Find.
|
On September 27 2013 09:47 Burrfoot wrote:
Datamined Stat Caps (first passthrough on closed PTR)
Critical Hit Chance - *You may have a maximum of +40.00% Critical Hit Chance from items.
Critical Hit Damage - *You may have a maximum of +250.00% Critical Hit Damage from items.
Attack Speed - *You may have a maximum of +40.00% Attack Speed from items.
Movement Speed - *You may have a maximum of +25.00% movement speed from items
Block Chance - *You may have a maximum of 75.00% Block Chance.
Gold Find - *You may have a maximum of +300.00% Gold Find.
Magic Find - *This increase is diminished for rare and legendary and set items.
Magic Find - *You may have a maximum of +300.00% Magic Find.
fuck the movement speed cap, it just boggles my mind
|
I think I would rather see diminishing returns above those values rather than hard caps. Still, glad to see they are looking to do something to get the insane damage scaling under control.
|
I agree with the OP. I'd like to see a game with more depth and less streamline. Especially none of this lifesteal dumbassery design. I guess they didn't learn a lot of lessons from how Diablo 2 played out.
|
It's good to see they acknowledge flaws in their game and actually look for improvements. I still remain positive about RoS and the changes it's gonna bring.
|
So they added potion cooldown to prevent potion chugging. And now they are nerfing life steal.. Makes perfect sense.
|
On September 27 2013 18:50 Grovbolle wrote:
So they added potion cooldown to prevent potion chugging. And now they are nerfing life steal.. Makes perfect sense.
But they're adding LEGENDARY potions! Like the Bottomless Potion of Kulle-Aid
|
On September 27 2013 09:47 Burrfoot wrote:
Datamined Stat Caps (first passthrough on closed PTR)
Critical Hit Chance - *You may have a maximum of +40.00% Critical Hit Chance from items.
Critical Hit Damage - *You may have a maximum of +250.00% Critical Hit Damage from items.
Attack Speed - *You may have a maximum of +40.00% Attack Speed from items.
Movement Speed - *You may have a maximum of +25.00% movement speed from items
Block Chance - *You may have a maximum of 75.00% Block Chance.
Gold Find - *You may have a maximum of +300.00% Gold Find.
Magic Find - *This increase is diminished for rare and legendary and set items.
Magic Find - *You may have a maximum of +300.00% Magic Find.
This is pretty good, hope it's not too little too late to start balancing content to expected character potential.
Edit: and thinking about it they had to put cap in or introduce rating like WoW where you don't get flat value of %crit but critical rating that translates into crit% depending on your level. I saw level 60 ring with 6,5+%crit so getting the cap shouldn't be that hard and then you have paragon stats to add.
|
HeroDetails.txt
*Life Steal is less effective when you are higher level.
*At level 60, Life Steal gains a 0.10x multiplier.
*At level 70, Life Steal no longer functions.
Hope you sold your LS weapons by now!
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
|
Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
On October 11 2013 19:12 Burrfoot wrote:Show nested quote +HeroDetails.txt
*Life Steal is less effective when you are higher level.
*At level 60, Life Steal gains a 0.10x multiplier.
*At level 70, Life Steal no longer functions. Hope you sold your LS weapons by now!
I guess barbarian with revenge will be back in the meta as the strongest class again.
|
On October 11 2013 22:08 HornyHerring wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 19:12 Burrfoot wrote:HeroDetails.txt
*Life Steal is less effective when you are higher level.
*At level 60, Life Steal gains a 0.10x multiplier.
*At level 70, Life Steal no longer functions. Hope you sold your LS weapons by now! I guess barbarian with revenge will be back in the meta as the strongest class again.
Meh, 2nd at most compared to 4K+ LoH,serenity, thunderclap monk.
|
On September 27 2013 09:47 Burrfoot wrote:
Datamined Stat Caps (first passthrough on closed PTR)
Critical Hit Chance - *You may have a maximum of +40.00% Critical Hit Chance from items.
Critical Hit Damage - *You may have a maximum of +250.00% Critical Hit Damage from items.
Attack Speed - *You may have a maximum of +40.00% Attack Speed from items.
Movement Speed - *You may have a maximum of +25.00% movement speed from items
Block Chance - *You may have a maximum of 75.00% Block Chance.
Gold Find - *You may have a maximum of +300.00% Gold Find.
Magic Find - *This increase is diminished for rare and legendary and set items.
Magic Find - *You may have a maximum of +300.00% Magic Find.
+40% crit is still too much IMO. With passives, you're critting half of the time. I honestly think that's still to much. Should be like 25% maximum or something.
|
On October 11 2013 19:12 Burrfoot wrote:Show nested quote +HeroDetails.txt
*Life Steal is less effective when you are higher level.
*At level 60, Life Steal gains a 0.10x multiplier.
*At level 70, Life Steal no longer functions. Hope you sold your LS weapons by now!
If you actually think anything you use right now will be even remotely good in the addon you have obviously never witnessed a WoW addon.
|
I'm glad they nerfed all the imba-stats. LS% was fucking imbalanced over 100k dps and the DPS gains from combining CHD and CHD was way too strong.
We will have to wait and see how the Gameplay looks with all the new spells and the new monsterpowers.
But they should try to make more stats viable and not force you to go for as much crit as you can have etc.
|
On October 11 2013 19:12 Burrfoot wrote:Show nested quote +HeroDetails.txt
*Life Steal is less effective when you are higher level.
*At level 60, Life Steal gains a 0.10x multiplier.
*At level 70, Life Steal no longer functions. Hope you sold your LS weapons by now!
troll or for real?
with this change, people might have to intentionally skip monsters during their first playthrough of act5 in order to not hit lvl 70 before they finish the act - thats because all the gear they have in the beginning will be their old vanilla stuff which is built around LS....
seriously, why not just cut all current LS values in half? the stat would be fine then imho. gear and monster attacks in act5/ the new difficulty can then be adjusted from there.
|
They are nerfing Reflect Damage from a % of your damage to a flat value. Pretty much they are balancing damage input and sustain to make gameplay less spikey. 100% health to 0% and back as they described in this post..
I don't think anyone will have any trouble reaching level 70 at MP1 or 2 with zero sustain.
|
On October 12 2013 00:50 Nekovivie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 09:47 Burrfoot wrote:
Datamined Stat Caps (first passthrough on closed PTR)
Critical Hit Chance - *You may have a maximum of +40.00% Critical Hit Chance from items.
Critical Hit Damage - *You may have a maximum of +250.00% Critical Hit Damage from items.
Attack Speed - *You may have a maximum of +40.00% Attack Speed from items.
Movement Speed - *You may have a maximum of +25.00% movement speed from items
Block Chance - *You may have a maximum of 75.00% Block Chance.
Gold Find - *You may have a maximum of +300.00% Gold Find.
Magic Find - *This increase is diminished for rare and legendary and set items.
Magic Find - *You may have a maximum of +300.00% Magic Find. +40% crit is still too much IMO. With passives, you're critting half of the time. I honestly think that's still to much. Should be like 25% maximum or something.
they have nerefed the passives as well but you will reach 50% with max on gear and paragon alone
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
making lifesteal completely null at the top level may not present balance problems if the numbers are tuned, but it's kind of radical to throw away a huge modifier just like that.
|
Couldn't they decrease damage dealt to the point where DPS and life scale equally so that LS has the same usefulness at all levels?
I really don't think D3 needs those HUGE damage numbers on the screen at all times.
|
On October 13 2013 19:40 S1eth wrote:
Couldn't they decrease damage dealt to the point where DPS and life scale equally so that LS has the same usefulness at all levels?
I really don't think D3 needs those HUGE damage numbers on the screen at all times.
Can't really do that when you want a game to have deep character power progression AND have content designed to be interesting at a specific character power threshold. Right now we are looking at 11 difficulty settings for inferno, 7 on console and 5 or 6 datamined for RoS.
You can't just provide a stats that should sustain a character with 100k dps and not consider how it'll work for characters that have 300k.
What I'm afraid is that they change lifesteal, don't provide as hard as MP10 for the last difficulty level but don't touch Life on Hit and with the return of the up to your level legendaries drop, Attack speed everywhere possible is going to be even more optimal and allow "lower" budget build to farm where other class cannot hope to with 2x the stats. (for example how a 200-300M barb can easily trash MP10 farm right now).
|
Ladder reset at start so u won't have any ls weapons.
|
On October 13 2013 21:57 unkkz wrote:
Ladder reset at start so u won't have any ls weapons.
Not an issue. Did you play D3 when it just started? Just put LOH gems into a socketed weapon.
|
On October 14 2013 00:08 Mithhaike wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 21:57 unkkz wrote:
Ladder reset at start so u won't have any ls weapons. Not an issue. Did you play D3 when it just started? Just put LOH gems into a socketed weapon.
Unless they make that gem socket not give LOH anymore. Derp.
|
On October 13 2013 21:57 Iblis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 19:40 S1eth wrote:
Couldn't they decrease damage dealt to the point where DPS and life scale equally so that LS has the same usefulness at all levels?
I really don't think D3 needs those HUGE damage numbers on the screen at all times. Attack speed everywhere possible is going to be even more optimal
you gotta keep in mind that attack speed is bad for wds. wds cant stack more than some few ias, so if they really balance around every char using the 40% ias cap, that wont work out for wd...
|
Channeled attacks cost scaling with attack speed is a terrible mechanic.
|
On October 14 2013 00:08 Mithhaike wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 21:57 unkkz wrote:
Ladder reset at start so u won't have any ls weapons. Not an issue. Did you play D3 when it just started? Just put LOH gems into a socketed weapon.
Meant people who said LS weapons will be useless Most people will play ladder so, u won´t have any uber LS weapons anyway since we all start from 0.
|
On October 14 2013 12:03 Burrfoot wrote:
Channeled attacks cost scaling with attack speed is a terrible mechanic.
But it lines up with other skills doing the same. If they didn't,channeled skills would reign as the best skills even more for Wiz/WD, My Arcane Orb costs/sec increase when my attack speed does so other skills should as well.
|
Next on the list: Magic Find
Apparently they are diminishing the effect of MF for higher quality items like rare/leg/set much like they did in Diablo 2.
Flux: Okay, Magic Find and Gold Find via Paragon Points. One of the things you guys said when you were first adding in the Paragon Levels was that you didn't want Magic Find to be an essential property on equipment, so you were going to give it via passive bonuses. That philosophy appears to be completely gone in the new Paragon system. You can add Magic Find, but it's in the tab competing with what... Movement Speed, Pickup Radius, and Resource regen, I think? And most of my chars would like all three of those more than Magic Find. So is Magic Find going to become more important on gear? Are you switching how it works on gear?
Travis Day: Actually, we've made some changes to how Magic Find works in the game. One of the biggest things we did with that... for example if I have 100% Magic Find from my gear, the cap today is 400%. Or is it 300%?
Flux: It's 300% from gear and you can add more from...
Travis: *laughing* A year and a half working on the expansion, and I don't even remember....
So basically Magic Find will provide less and less of a return the higher the quality of the item is. [He means the item being dropped and affected by your character's Magic Find.]
So you actually only get 10% of your Magic Find applies to the legendary. So, since it isn't that impactful a stat anymore, we didn't feel like we needed all the restrictions we had on it. And we no longer needed to automatically just give it to everyone. Like we can't have two people with like, five times different reward schedule, like on top of your character efficiency and the skills and how familiar you are with the game... we wanted to really diminish that gap. [The gap between the haves with amazing equipment, and the have-nots.]
As a result we've made some changes to Magic Find, and we took it out of Paragon since it's no longer as mandatory as it used to be.
From D2: http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Magic_find_diminishing_returns
More grinding for BoA gear ftw! 10% seems pretty steep to me!
|
And Pickup Radius gets the nerf:
Pickup radius was reduced because we've ultimately decided that the current values do more harm than good.
With the incoming changes coming to combat pacing, health globes are more valuable than in the current live environment. You don't just want them to proc passives, hopefully you'll actually want them to (gasp) heal!
After many (many) hours of playtesting we concluded that large health globe pickup causes you to heal without even realizing why. One word we use a lot about on the team is INTENTIONALITY. We want to bring back some of the intentionality of picking up a health globe.
Remember back in Nightmare difficulty when you'd save a health globe and come back to pick it up later? Or maybe you saw a health globe drop and you'd brave your way past some baddies to pick it up because you wanted the heal? We love that dramatic moment, and we want it to happen more often. Considering it barely happens at all in the live game, even happening once in a blue moon would be great for the dramatic moment it creates.
All that said, this change is still being evaluated. So far results seem good. Of course, we wouldn't want to inadvertantly nerf some other builds such as Witch Doctor passives that look at your pickup radius. If we like the change overall we'll adjust the passive to make sure it doesn't become useless.
So folks, don't pick up globes unless you really want to!
|
On November 16 2013 21:44 Burrfoot wrote:And Pickup Radius gets the nerf: Show nested quote +Pickup radius was reduced because we've ultimately decided that the current values do more harm than good.
With the incoming changes coming to combat pacing, health globes are more valuable than in the current live environment. You don't just want them to proc passives, hopefully you'll actually want them to (gasp) heal!
After many (many) hours of playtesting we concluded that large health globe pickup causes you to heal without even realizing why. One word we use a lot about on the team is INTENTIONALITY. We want to bring back some of the intentionality of picking up a health globe.
Remember back in Nightmare difficulty when you'd save a health globe and come back to pick it up later? Or maybe you saw a health globe drop and you'd brave your way past some baddies to pick it up because you wanted the heal? We love that dramatic moment, and we want it to happen more often. Considering it barely happens at all in the live game, even happening once in a blue moon would be great for the dramatic moment it creates.
All that said, this change is still being evaluated. So far results seem good. Of course, we wouldn't want to inadvertantly nerf some other builds such as Witch Doctor passives that look at your pickup radius. If we like the change overall we'll adjust the passive to make sure it doesn't become useless. So folks, don't pick up globes unless you really want to!
I've no clue what they plan to do with pickup, healthglobes and "combat pacing", but I approve of the INTENTIONALITY concept!
Ofc, as we all know, there are many and well paved roads from good concepts to horrible fails... Still got some hope though!
|
do you REALLY want to pick up health globes?
*sigh*
|
Having played 2 builds (DH build with Vengeance and WD with Grave Injustice) that really rely on PUR to grab globes, makes me sad when I read about the nerf.
|
On November 18 2013 11:22 Burrfoot wrote:
Having played 2 builds (DH build with Vengeance and WD with Grave Injustice) that really rely on PUR to grab globes, makes me sad when I read about the nerf.
well, they at least are aware of this and said they will scale those passives accordingly to the new PUR. but im sure they wont pass on this new opportunity to fuck something up....
|
I'm fine with builds losing viability. They will modify the skill tree a lot and redo the items quite some bit as I understand, so imo it'd limit them far too much if they had to maintain viability of all the now mainstream builds. Actually, I'd be disappointed if I were to continue playing archon and cm/ww in the expansion. It's not like people will be sad for "omg now my gear is useless due to my build no longer being viable!!", as all current gear will already be useless on lvl 70 anyway.
Only thing is that people with highly specialised gear towards a build that lose viability (as my cm/ww and archon gear I expect) will not start levelling up as quickly first day (before they find gear that is better anyway). But I feel that a lost half hour first day for some people is a perfectly fine price to pay to get a more thought through and consistent gear and skills for the rest of the expansion.
GIBBE NUU BEELDZ PL0X!!!
|
On November 18 2013 16:12 Cascade wrote:
I'm fine with builds losing viability. They will modify the skill tree a lot and redo the items quite some bit as I understand, so imo it'd limit them far too much if they had to maintain viability of all the now mainstream builds. Actually, I'd be disappointed if I were to continue playing archon and cm/ww in the expansion. It's not like people will be sad for "omg now my gear is useless due to my build no longer being viable!!", as all current gear will already be useless on lvl 70 anyway.
Only thing is that people with highly specialised gear towards a build that lose viability (as my cm/ww and archon gear I expect) will not start levelling up as quickly first day (before they find gear that is better anyway). But I feel that a lost half hour first day for some people is a perfectly fine price to pay to get a more thought through and consistent gear and skills for the rest of the expansion.
GIBBE NUU BEELDZ PL0X!!!
It amazes me how many people are talking like if they were going to stay on non-ladder after RoS release.
I come from D2 and there nobody ever played, crafted, leveled, PvEed on non-ladder... non-ladder was only for hardcore PvP, but all other content moved on ladder.
Is it possible that WoW didnt ever had proper reset? So that people coming from there have no clue what ladder reset actually is?
I cant imagine any other reason why to care about current items, levels etc. other than that people have no idea whats coming...
|
On November 19 2013 00:31 Sek-Kuar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 16:12 Cascade wrote:
I'm fine with builds losing viability. They will modify the skill tree a lot and redo the items quite some bit as I understand, so imo it'd limit them far too much if they had to maintain viability of all the now mainstream builds. Actually, I'd be disappointed if I were to continue playing archon and cm/ww in the expansion. It's not like people will be sad for "omg now my gear is useless due to my build no longer being viable!!", as all current gear will already be useless on lvl 70 anyway.
Only thing is that people with highly specialised gear towards a build that lose viability (as my cm/ww and archon gear I expect) will not start levelling up as quickly first day (before they find gear that is better anyway). But I feel that a lost half hour first day for some people is a perfectly fine price to pay to get a more thought through and consistent gear and skills for the rest of the expansion.
GIBBE NUU BEELDZ PL0X!!! It amazes me how many people are talking like if they were going to stay on non-ladder after RoS release. I come from D2 and there nobody ever played, crafted, leveled, PvEed on non-ladder... non-ladder was only for hardcore PvP, but all other content moved on ladder. Is it possible that WoW didnt ever had proper reset? So that people coming from there have no clue what ladder reset actually is? I cant imagine any other reason why to care about current items, levels etc. other than that people have no idea whats coming...
there is no resets in WoW, I played d2 for along time and I never liked ladder, I played it because the put some exclusive items there, I would have been happier if that wasn't the case. if there is no special feature that I wouldn't wanna play without in ladder, I will not be playing ladder.
|
On November 19 2013 02:10 DODswe4 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 00:31 Sek-Kuar wrote:On November 18 2013 16:12 Cascade wrote:
I'm fine with builds losing viability. They will modify the skill tree a lot and redo the items quite some bit as I understand, so imo it'd limit them far too much if they had to maintain viability of all the now mainstream builds. Actually, I'd be disappointed if I were to continue playing archon and cm/ww in the expansion. It's not like people will be sad for "omg now my gear is useless due to my build no longer being viable!!", as all current gear will already be useless on lvl 70 anyway.
Only thing is that people with highly specialised gear towards a build that lose viability (as my cm/ww and archon gear I expect) will not start levelling up as quickly first day (before they find gear that is better anyway). But I feel that a lost half hour first day for some people is a perfectly fine price to pay to get a more thought through and consistent gear and skills for the rest of the expansion.
GIBBE NUU BEELDZ PL0X!!! It amazes me how many people are talking like if they were going to stay on non-ladder after RoS release. I come from D2 and there nobody ever played, crafted, leveled, PvEed on non-ladder... non-ladder was only for hardcore PvP, but all other content moved on ladder. Is it possible that WoW didnt ever had proper reset? So that people coming from there have no clue what ladder reset actually is? I cant imagine any other reason why to care about current items, levels etc. other than that people have no idea whats coming... there is no resets in WoW, I played d2 for along time and I never liked ladder, I played it because the put some exclusive items there, I would have been happier if that wasn't the case. if there is no special feature that I wouldn't wanna play without in ladder, I will not be playing ladder.
Well there is special feature: fresh, clean & fair start for everyone - in both economy and char progress.
Its interesting for me to see this, I dont think I have ever met anyone who didnt like ladder resets in D2. For last couple years before D2 died I was only meeting people who played like me - for few weeks after ladder reset, until bots and dupers destroyed everything, and then moved to other games and wait for next season ^^
|
On November 19 2013 00:31 Sek-Kuar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 16:12 Cascade wrote:
I'm fine with builds losing viability. They will modify the skill tree a lot and redo the items quite some bit as I understand, so imo it'd limit them far too much if they had to maintain viability of all the now mainstream builds. Actually, I'd be disappointed if I were to continue playing archon and cm/ww in the expansion. It's not like people will be sad for "omg now my gear is useless due to my build no longer being viable!!", as all current gear will already be useless on lvl 70 anyway.
Only thing is that people with highly specialised gear towards a build that lose viability (as my cm/ww and archon gear I expect) will not start levelling up as quickly first day (before they find gear that is better anyway). But I feel that a lost half hour first day for some people is a perfectly fine price to pay to get a more thought through and consistent gear and skills for the rest of the expansion.
GIBBE NUU BEELDZ PL0X!!! It amazes me how many people are talking like if they were going to stay on non-ladder after RoS release. I come from D2 and there nobody ever played, crafted, leveled, PvEed on non-ladder... non-ladder was only for hardcore PvP, but all other content moved on ladder. Is it possible that WoW didnt ever had proper reset? So that people coming from there have no clue what ladder reset actually is? I cant imagine any other reason why to care about current items, levels etc. other than that people have no idea whats coming...
It amazes me how many people compare the release of a D3 expansion to their experience of D2 10 years after the release. Yes, when the game has been out for 10 years there will mainly be the hardcore players left, like you I guess, or at least those are the only ones you will find in public games. But first few years after release, a vast majority of the players will be casual, like me, and play mainly single player or with their friends. And you will never see these players, so you will have no clue about how many they are.
I think the casual players, like me, will be playing mainly off ladder. And I am convinced that at start, first year or so depending on how good they are at retaining the casual players, the player base will be dominated by this kind of more casual players. Only that you will not find them in public games, or on gaming forums.
In 5-10 years, or even 2, it is possible (or even likely) that a majority of the (by then few) players are on ladder, but the majority of the players that buy the game, I think, will not play much on ladder. Do you agree?
edit: for the record, I've pumped many hundred hours into D2, but I don't think I've ever player a public game on bnet, ladder or not. Only single player and LAN with friends.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
