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On January 23 2013 13:21 Burrfoot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 12:47 Conquest101 wrote:
So unfortunately, you stopped your chart at 50% crit chance, but I assume that I would want to stay with emeralds if I have 60% crit chance (with warcry, 70% with WotB) and dual wield yes? I added up to 70%. But barbs are a special case with many ignoring offhand dps, so if the majority of your dps is MH, then a Ruby in that and Emerald in the OH could be an option.
It would be useful to see how the numbers work out all the way up to 100% crit chance. Hammer of the Ancients can easily reach 100% crit chance with full fury, passives, and Barb buffs. With Battle Rage returning fury constantly, it's nearly non-stop crits.
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I used both your methods and came to roughly the same results. So both methods are valid.
Dazarath, you are starting with the weapons average damage, while Burrfoot, you are starting with the weapons displayed damage. To convert one to the other, you need the APS of the weapon. From then on, APS is not needed anymore for the calculation, as APS have the same effect on Rubys and Emeralds.
Dazarath formula is more accurate, while Burrfoots table saves some time if you don't want to do the math yourself.
Thanks to both of you for your posts, very helpful!
@Burrfoot: Your first table would become more accurate, if you would use AVG damage only, instead of displayed damage + attack speed as separate dimensions.
On January 24 2013 09:03 Burrfoot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:39 Dazarath wrote:
As a side note, it's really misleading to say that rubies benefit high APS weapons more (implying that it's due to the APS). Everything was calculated independent of the character attack speed (and the charter to determine the ruby damage % says specifically to use the weapon aps, not the character aps with all the armor/jewlery IAS factored in) I understand what you're trying to say, but it's already taken into account.
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I'm a bit confused about the whole min-max dmg bug mechanic - and i think it is quite important for the effect of the ruby.
- Does the +dmg from my jewelry add to the dmg bug? (does it count towards the min dmg +bonus min dmg> max dmg?)
- Does the +% weapon dmg mod on a weapon apply to jewelry dmg? From a streamer putting a ruby in his weap it looks like it does apply to the ruby in the weapon...
- Elemental dmg is not bugged, right? meaning if i have a slow black mainhand and a fast elemental offhand, it would be more beneficial to put ruby in MH? for reference: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Blix-2159/hero/2388658
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On January 24 2013 16:36 Merano wrote:
@Burrfoot: Your first table would become more accurate, if you would use AVG damage only, instead of displayed damage + attack speed as separate dimensons.
Ya, I just picked weapon DPS since people actually remember what their listed DPS is vs what their average hit is. It's just an estimate anyways, as the calculations were done per 100 hits, independent of actual attack speed or whatnot.
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So much math in this thread, getting crazy.
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So the damage % (ranges from 0-50%) on the weapon being gemmed isn't a factor?
On the DH forum, I saw visual screenshots of a tester gemming an actual marq ruby into a black weapon and it showed --->
Min increase of 150 * (1.0-1.5)
Max increase of 300 * (1.0-1.5)
where the 1.0-1.5 range is whatever damage % (0-50) listed on weapon being gemmed.
So the gem being inserted is directly affected by the damage % where as an emerald being inserted is a flat %.
So isn't that a factor not mentioned/calculated in this thread or am I missing something?
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On January 26 2013 15:46 ActionJunkie wrote:
So the gem being inserted is directly affected by the damage % where as an emerald being inserted is a flat %.
So isn't that a factor not mentioned/calculated in this thread or am I missing something?
Nope, you're correct : % damage is a factor, and does scale the effectiveness of the gem. For the 1st charts I just used +25% for simplicity, but from the looks of most weapons people care enough to calculate should have used ~40%, essentially shifting the Weapon chart % down sightly.
But the first charts are supposed to be an estimate to determine the ruby % increase. As Daz/Mer posted above, average damage would have been a more accurate starting point, as it includes the % dam for black weapons, but if you are already whipping out that Ti-85 (old-school!) to calculate your average damage, may as well just be completely accurate and just calculate your exact ruby % dps boost to use in the 2nd chart.
Some examples:
+ Show Spoiler +Echoing Fury: +40% damage. (max % for EF) Charts returns: +34% damage with a +150 ruby. Actual Results: 36% + Show Spoiler +Fist of Az'Turr: +50% damage. Charts returns: +35% damage with a +150 ruby. Actual Results: 40% + Show Spoiler +Manticore: +50% damage. Charts returns: +26% damage with a +150 ruby. Actual Results: 25% + Show Spoiler +
Mostly I just made these charts to show the general trend on the comparisons between the two types of gems give certain crit/damage levels. Once the online dps calculators like d3up are running correctly I'd just use those. :o)
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On January 26 2013 15:46 ActionJunkie wrote:
So the damage % (ranges from 0-50%) on the weapon being gemmed isn't a factor?
On the DH forum, I saw visual screenshots of a tester gemming an actual marq ruby into a black weapon and it showed --->
Min increase of 150 * (1.0-1.5)
Max increase of 300 * (1.0-1.5)
where the 1.0-1.5 range is whatever damage % (0-50) listed on weapon being gemmed.
So the gem being inserted is directly affected by the damage % where as an emerald being inserted is a flat %.
So isn't that a factor not mentioned/calculated in this thread or am I missing something?
Nope, you are correct and not missing anything. Two weapons with the same DPS and APS, but different damage% affixes will benefit differently from rubies. I'm the one who missed that in my original calculations. (I haven't stepped foot on the PTR yet, so I only found that out just recently.)
To adjust for that, the ruby formula should be:
%Increase = (Ruby*(1+DmgPerc))/AvgDmg
where DmgPerc is the "+X% damage affix"
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Another boring Monday, so here is some more useless info I excelled up for fun! Unless you are color blind, I hope these are easier to understand than my HD charts above. Keep in mind the results shown are "perfect rolled" , but they sure look pretty!
It was pretty well concluded that for dual weilders double emerald is most likely still the best option, but I wanted to better represent the results for single weapon users - in the sword & board variety, 1h and mojo/source, and 2h. I picked some very popular weapons to focus on, and even included calamity since I've seen my fair share of shields on PvP DHs. In general for PvE, if the ruby vs emerald is pretty close, I'd pick the ruby since it's better to not rely on crit to consistently one-shot everything.
First up, as I play a budget Monk, the Fist of Az'Turrasq. A black weapon with base ias, it is the ideal candidate for a buffed ruby over an emerald. Even though the one random property eliminates it from high-end, it was my cheap pvp weapon of choice. As expected a ruby is better in nearly all cases, unless you somehow run 50%+ crit with 50% crit damage.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Qg96dovl.png)
Next up is the Echoing Fury, a multi-class weapon and one that you will see lots and lots in PvP due to the high % chance to fear. Also as expected, it leans heavily towards the Ruby end.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nKzpwmHl.png)
As I don't play DH much, I'm not sure if double hand-xbow is desirable at all, but this chart shows a standard Calamity+ shield/quiver setup. As calamity's base speed is faster than either the Az'Turr or EF, the ruby is even easier a choice for most folks.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PUR0vJ3l.png)
(For reference if you were to somehow DW Calamities even though hey are unique... + Show Spoiler + )
Finally the good old Skorn. A chart that actually more evenly distributed with pretty clear transition from red to green.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7Tqg0TKl.png)
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What happens when the IT people realize your excel work is all revolving around D3 instead of financial stuff, haha?
I'm assuming you are IB or something similar given your love of excel 
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Can you please post tables of 2 socketed Manticore and 1 socketed 1600 DPS crossbow
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Aww cool... so rubies will be better for DHs, good to know. Loaded up with rubies now! :D Although I won't make Marquise, that's overkill even though I have enough of money. Radiant Star will have to do
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On January 31 2013 08:13 Freezard wrote:Aww cool... so rubies will be better for DHs, good to know. Loaded up with rubies now! :D Although I won't make Marquise, that's overkill even though I have enough of money. Radiant Star will have to do
You might want to hold off then. It is not confirmed that they will be scaling past ruby grades in any way.
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On January 31 2013 09:08 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 08:13 Freezard wrote:Aww cool... so rubies will be better for DHs, good to know. Loaded up with rubies now! :D Although I won't make Marquise, that's overkill even though I have enough of money. Radiant Star will have to do You might want to hold off then. It is not confirmed that they will be scaling past ruby grades in any way.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1KKEkBB.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EvhCoTM.png)
So not too bad. I'd update my charts, but too lazy.
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According to the patch note that you copied and pasted it seems like the PTR is still running the old calculation.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7810050948
A blue made a post regarding the change of ruby taking effect in upcoming patch 1.0.7
What are your thoughts on this "Burrfoot"
It seems to me that ruby will no longer be a viable choice for people that are geared well.
Let me get your input and calculations on it.
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On January 31 2013 18:09 ktang wrote:According to the patch note that you copied and pasted it seems like the PTR is still running the old calculation. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7810050948A blue made a post regarding the change of ruby taking effect in upcoming patch 1.0.7 What are your thoughts on this "Burrfoot" It seems to me that ruby will no longer be a viable choice for people that are geared well. Let me get your input and calculations on it.
Interesting, basically they just said to everyone "Stick to Emeralds". Even in a fast weapon like Echoing Fury, if the calculation is not subjected to the bug, it goes from a 35% dps boost to 10%, making a 110% emarld pretty much the choice across the board:
From a : "Ruby will rock your EF!"
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5USpDCEl.png)
To: "Emerald it is"
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i4XjRSHl.png)
I expect every other weapon to follow the trend that it really isn't worth calculating. I went on PTR and the change isn't live so just taking a screenshot of an EF I actually have on hand to verify the assumed calculation when the next patch version hits:
+ Show Spoiler +
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I interpret the patch notes like this: The bug still works on the black weapon, only the ruby part is left out.
But in your latest chart, you switched off the black weapon bug too.
So I am afraid, you have to redo your chart one more time ;-)
On January 31 2013 20:45 Burrfoot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 18:09 ktang wrote:According to the patch note that you copied and pasted it seems like the PTR is still running the old calculation. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7810050948A blue made a post regarding the change of ruby taking effect in upcoming patch 1.0.7 What are your thoughts on this "Burrfoot" It seems to me that ruby will no longer be a viable choice for people that are geared well. Let me get your input and calculations on it. Interesting, basically they just said to everyone "Stick to Emeralds". Even in a fast weapon like Echoing Fury, if the calculation is not subjected to the bug, it goes from a 35% dps boost to 10%, making a 110% emarld pretty much the choice across the board: From a : "Ruby will rock your EF!"To: "Emerald it is"I expect every other weapon to follow the trend that it really isn't worth calculating. I went on PTR and the change isn't live so just taking a screenshot of an EF I actually have on hand to verify the assumed calculation when the next patch version hits: + Show Spoiler +
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It depends on what they actually do, I can't verify that yet on PTR.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oDGBxH4s.png)
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