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I made a spreadsheet to calculate EHP.
This is most relevant for selecting barb equipment if you're trying to tank as much as possible, but probably relevant for monk and maybe the others too. The formulas I only learned about secondhand, and the in-game stats I get are off by 1-3% sometimes, so let me know if you find some formula that needs correcting.
There are four tabs - the main EHP calculation, a key, the dex/dodge table, and a sensitivity analysis tab.
If you want to input your own stats you can File-->Download as-->Excel, and see what kind of stats are most necessary for you. To do this, do the following:
1. Enter your stats in the first tab.
2. Adjust the values in the fourth tab in the "change in stat" row (row 25) to see the EHP impact of each stat (not working for dex yet). You can use an optimization tool to determine the exact values that give equivalent EHP gains or just do it manually.
For example, I found that given my current barb equipment, approximately 10 str/int/armor = 1 vit/resist = 100 EHP.
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Just to note how you can use this, it's most useful for seeing how incremental changes in equipment affect EHP. For example when I first made this and put my stats into it, it turned out that 0.1 resist was almost as good as 1 vit, and both resist/vit were ~10x better than 1 additional str, etc.
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I think it's very simple as far as EHP goes, all three attributes, int dex str, are equally effective. So you can just add them up. From what I know their effect on effective hp is just linear. As a result the primary attribute is always best for your character the other two don't matter much. For surviving a mix of vitality and the others is best as the other attributes improve your EHP with a factor plus make healing effects better.
Well dexterity is a bit worse perhaps because you can't dodge all attacks, plus it has variance, on the other hand it's the only stat that does something if you get one shotted otherwise
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I think you forgot that gems and some gear can give +%hp. You should factor that in too.
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On May 23 2012 02:51 Markwerf wrote:
I think it's very simple as far as EHP goes, all three attributes, int dex str, are equally effective. So you can just add them up. From what I know their effect on effective hp is just linear. As a result the primary attribute is always best for your character the other two don't matter much. For surviving a mix of vitality and the others is best as the other attributes improve your EHP with a factor plus make healing effects better.
Well dexterity is a bit worse perhaps because you can't dodge all attacks, plus it has variance, on the other hand it's the only stat that does something if you get one shotted otherwise
I think you can, in fact, dodge all attacks. I've seen ppl dodging poison pools on the ground and stuff. Maybe there are some other attacks that are undodgable
anyway int/dex/str are NOT all equally effective if your baseline stats aren't the same. you can test that out in the sheet. this is because each DR from those stats is on a different diminishing returns curve. so for example if your baseline str/int/dex/vit are 1000/500/300/1000 then 100 additional str gets you +551 EHP, while 100 additional int gives you 1203 additional EHP.
it's counterintuitive because: given all stats remain constant except the one you vary, then each stat's effect on EHP is linear. BUT, if you increase one stat, the EHP gain from increasing the other stats goes up.
so in fact it's good to balance str/int if you want to maximize EHP; dex is a little different because dodge % is based on another table
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United States47024 Posts
On May 23 2012 02:51 Markwerf wrote:
I think it's very simple as far as EHP goes, all three attributes, int dex str, are equally effective. So you can just add them up. From what I know their effect on effective hp is just linear. As a result the primary attribute is always best for your character the other two don't matter much. For surviving a mix of vitality and the others is best as the other attributes improve your EHP with a factor plus make healing effects better.
Well dexterity is a bit worse perhaps because you can't dodge all attacks, plus it has variance, on the other hand it's the only stat that does something if you get one shotted otherwise
They are linear with themselves (e.g. going from 0 strength to 50 strength is the same EHP increase as going from 50 to 100). They are multiplicative with each other (if you have 500 HP, 50% damage reduction from armor means you have 1000 EHP; if you have 1000 HP, it means you have 2000 HP).
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Presumably there would be a point were the diminishing returns from str/dex/int make it more effective to increase vit. Do you know where that is?
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On May 23 2012 03:13 trainRiderJ wrote:
Presumably there would be a point were the diminishing returns from str/dex/int make it more effective to increase vit. Do you know where that is?
Str and int have as much diminishing returns as vit, aka they are all linear.
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On May 23 2012 03:13 trainRiderJ wrote:
Presumably there would be a point were the diminishing returns from str/dex/int make it more effective to increase vit. Do you know where that is?
it seems like vit is always better than str/dex/int for increasing your EHP, makes sense, which is to be expected
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On May 23 2012 03:25 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 03:13 trainRiderJ wrote:
Presumably there would be a point were the diminishing returns from str/dex/int make it more effective to increase vit. Do you know where that is? Str and int have as much diminishing returns as vit, aka they are all linear.
Just curious, what are you basing this on? They don't seem to be linear according to the formulas in the OPs spreadsheet.
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On May 23 2012 03:31 palanq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 03:13 trainRiderJ wrote:
Presumably there would be a point were the diminishing returns from str/dex/int make it more effective to increase vit. Do you know where that is? it seems like vit is always better than str/dex/int for increasing your EHP, makes sense, which is to be expected
Always? Even if you've got no INT besides your base?
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On May 23 2012 03:36 trainRiderJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 03:31 palanq wrote:On May 23 2012 03:13 trainRiderJ wrote:
Presumably there would be a point were the diminishing returns from str/dex/int make it more effective to increase vit. Do you know where that is? it seems like vit is always better than str/dex/int for increasing your EHP, makes sense, which is to be expected Always? Even if you've got no INT besides your base?
it's theoretically possible but with the numbers I think are typical I don't think it's going to happen.
I just tested it, if init stats are 1000/0/500/10000 (lol 10k vit) then additional vit gets you ~22 EHP and additional int gets you ~55 EHP
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It's actually very simple if you boil it down, strength/armor and int/resistance just add linearly to effective hp, ie. each point adds a certain percentage to your life. Specifically per point in these you add 1/(50*enemylevel) to your EHP.
For inferno enemy level is 63 so this is 1/(50*63) = 0.00031746
Dexterity is more difficult as it doesn't work linearly. The dodge chance increases linearly but there are several levels. Per level EHP actually increases exponentially but since the levels get less effective as you get higher the EHP increase is near linear for the first 1000 dexterity. First 100 dexterity (which any char basically has at lvl 60) adds 11% to EHP. Next 400 adds another 12.5% so a bit more then 3% per 100 dex. Next 500 adds ~14.4% so roughly 3% per 100 dex too. Beyond 1000 it drops steeply to only about 1.7% per 100 dex.
Anyway so summarize roughly:
At inferno
every 100 armor/strength adds about 3.2% to EHP
every 100 int ( = 10 resist to all) adds about 3.2% to EHP
first 100 dex is very efficient as it adds 11% to EHP. From 100 to 1000 dex every 100 adds about 3% to EHP. After 1000 it drops stoply and 100 dex only adds about 1.7% to EHP.
Each bonus is multiplicative so spreading is most efficient. For example if you can choose between 1000 armor and 500 int OR 750 armor and 750 into then the latter is more efficient. The first 100 dex is a must basically (but any char has at least 65 base dex at lvl 60 i believe and dh/monk already 185) so that's a nonissue. Going over 1000 dex is very inefficient as far as EHP goes but that's only an issue for DH/monk (as damage bonus from dex gets less effective as well the more those classes get I wouldn't advise going too far out on dex but actually get some other stats)
Note that each attribute of str, int, dex is roughly even effective for increasing EHP regardless of class (exception when you go beyond 1000 dex). Comparing items you can often just add up your non primary attributes to compare them. For example for a monk something with +50 str +50 int is roughly as good as something with either +100 str or +100 int.
For increasing EHP overall the + to all resistance seem the most efficient by far. +50 resist to all equals +500 int as far as EHP goes which in turn equals +500 armor. Because many items give lot of armor already and it's better to spread out the three attributes +int and +dex are often more effective for increasing EHP then +strength is or more +armor. For example if your a monk a item with 250 armor and +100 int will be more effective then something with 350 armor.
Finally of course some abilities/passives actually encourage focussing on a certain attribute, like energy armor giving +65% armor for example. Normally spreading between dex and armor would be more effective but energy armor makes focussing on armor better (unless force armor rune is used though..)
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The big question mark over this for me is that a point to strength adds 1 to armor, but that means that every point of armor your equipment is giving you is reducing the effectiveness of stacking strength. I.e. having 750 STR and 750 INT won't give you the best result, because you'll be getting 700 Armor from your equipment as well, so you'd want 300 STR and 1100 INT to be optimal there.
Seems like Barbs get the short end of stick because they're suffering from diminishing returns on their main stat's defensive power.
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updated with a sensitivity analysis that will let you input stat changes to see effect on EHP.
Just put in my stats to see that given my stats and gear right now, vit/resist are about equivalent to each other, and str/armor/int are about equivalent to each other, with 10 str/arm/int equivalent to 1 vit/resist.
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EPT
