On October 23 2012 14:27 architecture wrote: Can someone explain why IK is so good? Is is just because of the stats?
The 5piece bonus doesn't seem that relevant?
AFAIK the 5-piece ik set bonus essentially gives you a neutered version of the Unforgiving passive.
Fury normally degenerates by 2 fury per second. When in combat you do not degenerate fury.
What the 'Unforgiving' passive does is give you 2 fury per second, AND you do not degenerate fury. This means that, regardless of your combat status, you will always gain 2 fury per second.
What the IK bonus does is simply give you 2 fury per second. Because your fury is reduced by 2/sec while out of combat, they counter-act each other so that your fury does not degenerate after leaving combat. However, because you are still considered 'in combat' for ~5 seconds after hitting something, this means that after leaving combat you will gain 10 fury (then it will 'freeze' at that fury level indefinitely).
What I think would be fun would be to combine ik AND unforgiving - this would mean that, regardless of your combat status, you would gain 4 fury per second. This opens up some silly build possibilities, like always having enough fury to be in a permanent state of Sprint-Marathon without ever needing to hit anything.
Is it worth it? Up for you to decide.
are you sure this is the way the IK set bonus works? I always understood it in the sense that everytime fury is generated, the amount of fury you get is increased by 2.
Yea the IK set bonus gives you fury regeneration of 2/sec. It's most noticeable out of combat between packs, you're able to sprint much longer since you don't lose fury.
Edit: I really like how barbs can actually farm with each other now after this patch =D
Ya. That 4-Man barb run last night was pretty fun. Even if we had to carry n00bs like Conquest.
On October 23 2012 11:36 Coolness53 wrote: Just started doing WW spec. I need a little help. Can anyone give me advice on what I should get next. I am getting killed in MP2. With my tank spec I can do up to MP4.
You don't have enough healing, basically. You have 1034 LOH and 2.6% lifesteal currently.
Pre-patch I would have suggested approx 1000 LOH is a rough minimum you want to aim for. Unfortunately, with the 60% nerf to sprint's coefficient (bearing in mind that sprint makes up 80% of your overall attacks), this means that LOH is only ~48% as effective as before.
This means that, to achieve the same healing income from LOH, you would want ~2.1x as much LOH, which means that the new "rough minimum" LOH is now 2000 - 2100. Yea, not very nice. It's a good idea to start incorporating lifesteal into your character build to help boost up your healing income, but unfortunately it won't do you too much good at the moment due to your low DPS.
You should also change your passive; Tough as Nails will give you less armour than Nerves of Steel, so that's some free armour right there. You may also do better with Bloodthirst for more healing.
Thank you so much for the advice. I am looking into it. Trying to upgrade my gear to meet those requirements .
I've been using weapon throw as my primary attack the last couple of days, and I think others should try it out. With sufficient crit you can sustain WotB easily without any -weapon throw gear.
I lucked out and looted a nice - 4 weapon throw belt last night, and now throw is an amazing fury generator. I actually have to spam sprint and battle rage to keep my fury down, and I never waste any time chasing. I basically do sprint/WW as usual, but if my WotB starts running low I just weapon throw for a few seconds and it's back to full time.
Finally, the hammer throw rune provides a nice stun when fighting ubers.
On October 23 2012 17:53 Terranasaur wrote: After a few runs tonight I can clearly say HotA is not the skill to go with. I think you need a 2-Hander to make use of HotA and the IK weapon I bought (cheapest one on AH, solely for the complete the set achieve) wasn't really ideal. I think that you really have to build around HotA for it to be good.
I've not done extensive testing, but I'm personally not overwhelmingly impressed with HotA. I'm still feeling like a standard ww/sprint build is still hard to beat.
HotA - Smash is 409% weapon damage.
4x 60% sprints = 240% weapon damage 1x 145% whirlwind = 145% weapon damage Total output from ww/sprint is 385%.
Bearing in mind that a strong mainhand gives a 'hidden' boost to sprint, the numbers on paper add up to pretty much the same DPS output. Don't get me wrong - smashing enemies for massive crits is fun, but I'm not convinced it's better. Different and fun, yes, but not necessarily better.
comparing 409 and 385 is very misleading here, since the tornadoes from sprint is generated over time, having 4 tornadoes hitting the same target is the best possible scenario. also, it takes almost a full second to generate a tornado, while the 409% damage comes out instantly. Not to mention if your target moves out of any of the four tornadoes, the damage from sprint goes down significantly. ww+sprint is of course a lot more effective vs less tightly packed monsters because of the larger aoe and is obviously better for lower mp farming because being able to attack and move at the same time, but for single target dps and higher mp farming, it cant really compete with hota imo.
On October 23 2012 17:53 Terranasaur wrote: After a few runs tonight I can clearly say HotA is not the skill to go with. I think you need a 2-Hander to make use of HotA and the IK weapon I bought (cheapest one on AH, solely for the complete the set achieve) wasn't really ideal. I think that you really have to build around HotA for it to be good.
I've not done extensive testing, but I'm personally not overwhelmingly impressed with HotA. I'm still feeling like a standard ww/sprint build is still hard to beat.
HotA - Smash is 409% weapon damage.
4x 60% sprints = 240% weapon damage 1x 145% whirlwind = 145% weapon damage Total output from ww/sprint is 385%.
Bearing in mind that a strong mainhand gives a 'hidden' boost to sprint, the numbers on paper add up to pretty much the same DPS output. Don't get me wrong - smashing enemies for massive crits is fun, but I'm not convinced it's better. Different and fun, yes, but not necessarily better.
comparing 409 and 385 is very misleading here, since the tornadoes from sprint is generated over time, having 4 tornadoes hitting the same target is the best possible scenario. also, it takes almost a full second to generate a tornado, while the 409% damage comes out instantly. Not to mention if your target moves out of any of the four tornadoes, the damage from sprint goes down significantly. ww+sprint is of course a lot more effective vs less tightly packed monsters because of the larger aoe and is obviously better for lower mp farming because being able to attack and move at the same time, but for single target dps and higher mp farming, it cant really compete with hota imo.
I just intended to show some numbers, and point out that once your tornadoes are rolling your DPS output is pretty close to HotA, which I thought would be surprising to many given how monstrous the crits from HotA are. By no means did I intend to say "therefore ww/sprint is better".
What does your HotA build look like, then - what skill are you forfeiting to pick it up? I couldn't work it into a build I felt really happy with overall (I was dropping whirlwind). I agree it seems good on a high MP (what is 'high' in your opinion, btw?), but I couldn't shake the feeling it was overall better dropping the MP a bit and using the standard ww/sprint.
when farming exp I would still use ww when Im on mp 5 or lower. I only use hota when Im doing key runs/ubers on mp 7+. basically I just switch bash with frenzy and ww with hota, everything else is the same as ww. sprint is there for mobility, and to briefly kite stuff for fury/hp when out of fury and taking too much damage to get it back with just frenzy.
to me, I feel that ww starts to become inefficient once monster's hp gets to a point where 1 pass with sprint + ww dont kill them, and you have to go back to clean up.
as for dps, since you can only reach that point if you someone can keep all 4 tornadoes on one target and be able to constantly ww through them, its not really practical to reach anywhere near 385% on a single target, but of course it gets better as the pack size gets bigger since hota's aoe is very limited. another thing, hota benefit from the +% damage from frenzy maniac vs very high hp targets, while ww obviously cant benefit from it.
Tried for some hours sprint-WW... Keeping WotB up with a 2H is too hard unless I do Alkaizer runs at high MP. Act I has such low monsters density that I could probably switch to WotB-Insanity for better results. Low MP is even worse since with my 210k dps stuff dies too fast to generate fury, so I wonder if there is something less situational for low MP farming. I have yet to try unforgiving or animosity though.
I tried out the fury passive with my 5piece IK last night. It was very, very, very easy to keep up Wrath. I've never been able to keep it up before, the combination of those two made it incredibly easy and smooth.
On October 25 2012 02:48 Terranasaur wrote: I tried out the fury passive with my 5piece IK last night. It was very, very, very easy to keep up Wrath. I've never been able to keep it up before, the combination of those two made it incredibly easy and smooth.
If you've got the means, I recommend it.
I can't , my belt and boots are much better (http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/BigG-2621/hero/412709) and I'm still switching between a couple of builds. Don't know, maybe I can buy the cheapest Ik pieces and see how it goes, but even with the best ones I lose something like 100str + 100vit and I doubt it'll be worth it considering that I plan to buy Mempo and Witching Hour as soon as I have enough money. We'll see!
when I used 5 piece ik, I didnt actually think the passive helped that much. It helped me sprint longer, but with only mediocre pieces (roughly 200 str on helm and belt, 250 on gloves, and base rolls on boots + armor) I was losing really large chunks of both offense and defense using it. in my opinion if you really want that extra fury I think its a better idea to just get extra lifesteal/extra defenses, depending on what your third passive is, and run unforgiving, it provides noticeably more fury and it doesnt severely limit your gear choices.
if keeping up wotb with ww is a problem, I would recommend getting a mighty weapon as your mainhand. the dps loss from going from an axe to a mighty weapon is probably less than the dps loss from getting 5 piece ik.
I assure you that going from a 296%cd Skorn to a mighty weapon is a lot of dps loss.
I'm not really worried, I still use other builds and sprint-WW has already proven to be better in exp farming (that was my main concern), so whatever. I want to try something in place of WotB, maybe overpower - killing spree. We'll see.
On October 25 2012 02:48 Terranasaur wrote: I tried out the fury passive with my 5piece IK last night. It was very, very, very easy to keep up Wrath. I've never been able to keep it up before, the combination of those two made it incredibly easy and smooth.
If you've got the means, I recommend it.
I can't , my belt and boots are much better (http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/BigG-2621/hero/412709) and I'm still switching between a couple of builds. Don't know, maybe I can buy the cheapest Ik pieces and see how it goes, but even with the best ones I lose something like 100str + 100vit and I doubt it'll be worth it considering that I plan to buy Mempo and Witching Hour as soon as I have enough money. We'll see!
I got more legendaries in one 7 hour session than I did in the entire couple weeks before then (since 1.05 got released) Including a witching hour. After being stuck around 10mil for so long i hope I can get a real upgrade soon
So, I thought I'd bare all and submit my barb for scrutiny! I just upgraded my chest yesterday for 20m, so now I have no money - any upgrades I get won't be for a while at least. Just wondering what bits of gear you think are weakest. http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Hairy-1750/hero/2281818
On October 26 2012 07:44 Hairy wrote: So, I thought I'd bare all and submit my barb for scrutiny! I just upgraded my chest yesterday for 20m, so now I have no money - any upgrades I get won't be for a while at least. Just wondering what bits of gear you think are weakest. http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Hairy-1750/hero/2281818
if its true your gloves only have 24str id say upgrade those. Clearly your weakest piece. otherwise it looks good, could always get stuff with a little bit more of everything ofc
I have been upgrading my gear but I am wanting to get to the higher Monster Power. I was wondering if there is anything I am missing or anything I can upgrade to get to the higher MP.
EPT
.
, my belt and boots are much better (http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/BigG-2621/hero/412709) and I'm still switching between a couple of builds. Don't know, maybe I can buy the cheapest Ik pieces and see how it goes, but even with the best ones I lose something like 100str + 100vit and I doubt it'll be worth it considering that I plan to buy Mempo and Witching Hour as soon as I have enough money. We'll see!
