| Forum Index > Diablo 3 |
|
Azzur
Australia6255 Posts
I find it almost possible to aim with Cluster Bombs - maybe if i use Caltrops it may become more viable? If Caltrops is mandatory, then it's a comparison between Cluster Bombs + Caltrops vs Loaded for Bear + Bat. Also, if using Cluster Arrow as the right-click, what do you recommend for the 3rd passive (apart from Archery and Steady Aim)? At the moment, I'm thinking of Grenadier (1 extra CA per hatred bar), SS or TA. | ||
|
Ig
United States417 Posts
On August 03 2012 20:29 wintergt wrote: Some crude numbers to show why bows are so bad compared to crossbows. Let's say you have a crossbow that hits once per second for 1000 dmg (1k dps) or a bow that hits twice per second for 500 dmg (also 1k dps). Now you can fire 2 cluster bombs with your hatred for 600% weapon damage, so your crossbow will hit for 12k damage total, and the bow for 6k. Add 33% crit 200% crit damage, and the difference becomes 24k damage over 12k. There is also lots of CC in D3, where you are frozen and can't dps, mobs will wall you off or shield themselves, you have to run extensively from arcane without being able to fire.. you really want every shot to matter, so you get a crossbow. I don't think that's a very good example winter, there isn't much difference in top end or the upper damage range for the weapons. The issue is bows have a much lower low end (though not by half except at the very bottom) and wider damage range, reducing the damage the average hit does but with faster attacks. Sustained dps shouldn't be much different but since its all about burst, crossbows easily come out on top with better gear. Skills like cluster arrow also don't get any real benefit from faster attacks and favor weapons that deal higher damage per hit as well as the bonus crit dmg vs flat +15% for those big critz. The difference isn't as big as you state though since the actual hits would be something like 700 dmg per hit bow vs 1k hit xbow at around 1.3 hits per second vs 1. The passive bonus difference is more like +50% crit dmg vs +15% dmg that also affects crit dmg. Bows still do alright with an elemental arrow build and can be better for kiting when you need to move more and burst won't help that much. In those examples on cc you gave the greater mobility with a bow may actually be better than the harder hitting crossbow. | ||
|
tuho12345
4482 Posts
On August 04 2012 04:54 Azzur wrote: Any DHs with experiences using the rune Loader for Bear vs Cluster Bombs? Which does more theoretical damage? Which do you find better in practice? I find it almost possible to aim with Cluster Bombs - maybe if i use Caltrops it may become more viable? If Caltrops is mandatory, then it's a comparison between Cluster Bombs + Caltrops vs Loaded for Bear + Bat. Also, if using Cluster Arrow as the right-click, what do you recommend for the 3rd passive (apart from Archery and Steady Aim)? At the moment, I'm thinking of Grenadier (1 extra CA per hatred bar), SS or TA. I like Loaded for bear, faster and much more accurate, fast bitches like Soul Ripper/ Hulk Phasebeat or even Cydea is hard to target with cluster bomb. And about the 3rd passive, personally I use tactical Advantage. First off shoot 2 loads as quick as possible, then SS to fall back and use your hatred regen skill, then give the last cluster shot. With tactical advantage you can build glass Cannon better than other skills. | ||
TheMango
United States1967 Posts
For elemental arrow users, there's not too much difference, since you can make use of your attack speed to make up for lower base damage, and you're not hatred blocked. However, if you use cluster arrow, xbow is always better imo. This is a somewhat different tangent, but I don't get why people stack attack speed. Even if you use elemental arrow and are not bottlenecked by hatred, if you account for kiting (and the more you depend on attack speed to boost your dps, that means your PER shot damage is low, which ultimately means you need to kite more) it's a lot less efficient. You can't make maximum usage of your attack speed since you cant stutter step that fast. | ||
|
Ig
United States417 Posts
| ||
|
thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
On August 04 2012 04:54 Azzur wrote: Any DHs with experiences using the rune Loader for Bear vs Cluster Bombs? Which does more theoretical damage? Which do you find better in practice? I find it almost possible to aim with Cluster Bombs - maybe if i use Caltrops it may become more viable? If Caltrops is mandatory, then it's a comparison between Cluster Bombs + Caltrops vs Loaded for Bear + Bat. Also, if using Cluster Arrow as the right-click, what do you recommend for the 3rd passive (apart from Archery and Steady Aim)? At the moment, I'm thinking of Grenadier (1 extra CA per hatred bar), SS or TA. It does more damage, but its hard to get a good hit on any mobs. Using caltrops is honestly not worth the trouble when you could just spam 3x cluster arrow with loaded for bear immediately | ||
|
Baeksucho
France46 Posts
also More IAS = easier kiting (faster animation). It's not as if you had to sacrifice Crit chance/Crit damage for IAS, you can have both on the same item. | ||
|
MysticaL
Canada118 Posts
| ||
|
TheMango
United States1967 Posts
On August 05 2012 05:05 Baeksucho wrote: Because you can't stutter step that fast doesn't mean that nobody can do it (you can also fire 2 shot instead of 1 when you stutter step). also More IAS = easier kiting (faster animation). It's not as if you had to sacrifice Crit chance/Crit damage for IAS, you can have both on the same item. I guess what I should have said was stutter step efficiently. Maybe you can stutter step that fast, but then what's the point? You probably have to stop every .5 seconds which defeats the purpose. If you had to choose 4 high roll stats on an item, attack speed would not be one of them. Sure, you could get a godly 6 stat perfect roll in which I would have no problem with attack speed, but I'm talking about the people who prioritize it over cc/cd/primary stat x2, etc | ||
|
Mortician
Bulgaria2332 Posts
| ||
|
tmonet
United States172 Posts
On August 05 2012 10:19 TheMango wrote: I guess what I should have said was stutter step efficiently. Maybe you can stutter step that fast, but then what's the point? You probably have to stop every .5 seconds which defeats the purpose. If you had to choose 4 high roll stats on an item, attack speed would not be one of them. Sure, you could get a godly 6 stat perfect roll in which I would have no problem with attack speed, but I'm talking about the people who prioritize it over cc/cd/primary stat x2, etc ias scales attack recovery time directly, meaning that for any firing time x, an increase y in attack speed will increase damage done over that period by the same percentage that y increases character sheet dps. what does 'stutter stepping efficently' have to do with anything? | ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
attacks after the first do take aspd into account. but in the stuttering situation a great % of attacks are of the first shot variety. | ||
|
Baeksucho
France46 Posts
e.g : if the animation takes 1 sec, when you fire your first arrow, you will wait 1 sec no matter what you do until firing the 2nd arrow. it's just that instead of standing still for 1 sec doing nothing, you walk back (stutter step). With higher attack speed, the animation is a lot faster, it doesn't mean that it's less efficient. e.g : if you have 100% more attack speed, the animation takes 0.5 sec instead of 1 sec. So during 1 sec you will do : fire > walk for 0.5 sec > fire > walk for 0.5 sec > fire. instead of fire > walk for 1 sec > fire. You walk the same distance during the same time but instead you fire 1 more arrow. Now if you have a really high attack speed (with a 1hand crossbow for instance), you can lose some effectiveness as you would have to stutter step really fast to utilize it to its full potential, which you can't always do. e.g: Let's say the animation is 0.2 sec. you have to Fire > walk for 0.2 sec > fire > etc etc. but to stutter step you have to left click behind your char, maintain shift, left click in front of your char etc. which takes a lot more time than 0.2 sec so what you will do is Fire > walk for ~0.3 sec > Fire > etc. so you lose some effectiveness But for 2h crossbow, you will never reach that point | ||
|
ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On August 06 2012 00:23 Baeksucho wrote: + Show Spoiler + When you stutter step, you don't "refresh" or "cancel" the animation CD. e.g : if the animation takes 1 sec, when you fire your first arrow, you will wait 1 sec no matter what you do until firing the 2nd arrow. it's just that instead of standing still for 1 sec doing nothing, you walk back (stutter step). With higher attack speed, the animation is a lot faster, it doesn't mean that it's less efficient. e.g : if you have 100% more attack speed, the animation takes 0.5 sec instead of 1 sec. So during 1 sec you will do : fire > walk for 0.5 sec > fire > walk for 0.5 sec > fire. instead of fire > walk for 1 sec > fire. You walk the same distance during the same time but instead you fire 1 more arrow. Now if you have a really high attack speed (with a 1hand crossbow for instance), you can lose some effectiveness as you would have to stutter step really fast to utilize it to its full potential, which you can't always do. e.g: Let's say the animation is 0.2 sec. you have to Fire > walk for 0.2 sec > fire > etc etc. but to stutter step you have to left click behind your char, maintain shift, left click in front of your char etc. which takes a lot more time than 0.2 sec so what you will do is Fire > walk for ~0.3 sec > Fire > etc. so you lose some effectiveness But for 2h crossbow, you will never reach that point K let's assume the firing point is at the middle of the animation. So in a perfect world, you always spend half ur time running, and the other half shooting. In this case, xbow n bow comes out evenly. Now it is difficult to time this perfectly (u often will either stop to shoot too early, in which case u waste running time, or stop too late, in which case u waste shooting time aka DPS), however little this margin of error is, it is a bigger percentage when u have higher IAS. Even without this, there almost certainly will be times when you can't fire "whenever possible" and have to run (fast Phase/Ripper, invulnerable Phase/ripper, etc).. as long as this situation happens, xbow comes out on top. Nvm the ease on your body physically, when there are less clicking n more resting is involved. Even if u are good, it is taxing on the body. | ||
|
Azzur
Australia6255 Posts
On July 28 2012 23:13 Antimage wrote: It increases my DPS significantly, especially as I'm dual wielding. +35 damage (the avg of which I have on my non-set ring right now) from that attribute alone, has the equivalent of ~60 dex or 2.5% crit rate or 18% crit damage. it's significant enough to want I saw this post in the WTB thread and I'm intrigued about dual-wielding DH builds. Google has been quite scarce about this - does anyone have experience playing this style? What build/items do you normally get? What are the advantages/disadvatages for dual-wielding? Also, do you keep a shield handy for certain mobs? | ||
|
Rosstock
Sweden172 Posts
im currently doing the nightmare act3 run with 211% gold find without 5x stacks. | ||
|
Azzur
Australia6255 Posts
My char: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Azzur-1861/hero/13202826 Build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aPSgXV!Yeg!YcZYZb At the moment, an idea is to stack more Physical Resist because it's cheaper to obtain. Or am I just wasting my time and should be focusing on increasing DPS? What solutions do you recommend for me? Bear in mind that I'm also cost constrained (7 mil) - but if money is the only way around it, then I'll just farm more. | ||
|
MysticaL
Canada118 Posts
On August 07 2012 03:59 Azzur wrote: . I can survive until I use up my discipline, then it's death. So, it's like a race between whether I can kill them before running out. Any ideas/strategies that you are using? What solutions do you recommend for me? Bear in mind that I'm also cost constrained (7 mil) - but if money is the only way around it, then I'll just farm more. Have you tried using prep : backup plan, instead of battle scars? I feel like battle scars is redundant with using shadow power to gain HP, and since your main problem is you need more time (i.e. more discipline), then maybe backup plan could be more useful? oh yeah also are you using any slows? (e.g. scoundrel w/ cold bows?) otherwise all 3 phase will catch upto/phase to you, lol | ||
|
gutshot
United States429 Posts
On August 07 2012 03:59 Azzur wrote: Currently, I'm trying to farm Act 3 efficiently (I've killed Diablo already) - I can do it ok but get unstuck on Phase Beast elites or Soul Rippers (less difficult). If I encounter them, my best hope is to mainly get them down by attrition, which means some deaths. I can survive until I use up my discipline, then it's death. So, it's like a race between whether I can kill them before running out. Any ideas/strategies that you are using? My char: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Azzur-1861/hero/13202826 Build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aPSgXV!Yeg!YcZYZb At the moment, an idea is to stack more Physical Resist because it's cheaper to obtain. Or am I just wasting my time and should be focusing on increasing DPS? What solutions do you recommend for me? Bear in mind that I'm also cost constrained (7 mil) - but if money is the only way around it, then I'll just farm more. I have been a bat companion lover until I found about caltraps. It is like the perfect counter for phasebeasts and elites with teleport, waller, vortex etc. they cannot teleport/wall/vortex if you keep slowing them out of screen and you can shutter step the hell out of them. it really made farming act3 easier for me. | ||
|
Ym1r
United States1164 Posts
I don't know where I should be at, I have trouble in act 2 and can't efficiently farm it, I die way too much. I don't know if I should try to swap in some survivability or not but I've seen glass cannons do act 3 completely fine (with 100k dps though). I figured I could do act 2 w/o any problems at 65k w/o SS but it's a lot harder than I thought. Is the MF worth it to forgo resist/vit? been farming act 1 forever, and it's getting boring, the constant level 50 items dropping is annoying too. | ||
| ||
[ Submit Event ] |
|
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Counter-Strike Super Smash Bros Heroes of the Storm Other Games tarik_tv9449 summit1g8150 hungrybox1207 shahzam498 JimRising  359Maynarde225 ViBE221 monkeys_forever68 |
|
GSL Code S
Classic vs Reynor
GuMiho vs Maru
The PondCast
RSL Revival
GSL Code S
herO vs TBD
TBD vs Cure
OSC
Korean StarCraft League
RSL Revival
SOOP
HeRoMaRinE vs Astrea
Online Event
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Sparkling Tuna Cup
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
