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On August 02 2012 20:12 0dem wrote:
Hey Guys,
I am not sure whether this has been mentioned somewhere. I got some questions regarding gearing:
- What is the major difference between bows and xbows? (speed, of course, but is there a skill that favors xbows or bows?) Or is it just a question of style; looks?
- In a different thread, TheMango postet a list of possible stats for pants with the respective max values for each stat (affixes?) Is there a page where i can find these infos for every part of my gear? Since I am far away from rich and just started playing, I want to experiment a bit with the skills and have trouble scanning the AH for the things i am looking for. It would be good to know beforehand what to look for in every individual part of the gear
- Do you guys use all your 6 skills frequently? I have problems using all of them due to the fact that I use the shift key in order to kite with hungering arrow. In this case, you dont have to focus enemies. Is there a better technique?
Thanks a lot in advance!
Xbow vs bow: Skills like Cluster Arrow favour high dmg (found usually on slower weapons). Skills like Ball Lightning favour a bit faster weapons. Not sure how to explain it, but you want slower weapons when discharging your hatred with few attacks.
There is a list of max stats for items, but I don't remember the url. You should be able to look it up with google.
I use all my skills frequently. Don't know if it will help you with your problem, but here is another way to kite:
Hold down main attack key/move key (left mouse button) constantly, and then press space or shift when you want to stop and shoot. Not sure if its 100% as effective as shift/space clicking but its 10 times more relaxing.
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yeah high attack speed isn't optimal if you don't have enough hatred to make use of it. ofc it still helps your hatred generator.
http://www.d3rmt.com/guides/diablo-3-item-stat-maximum-values/ that site has values but i don't use it much myself so i'm not sure how accurate it is
i'd like to see your skill build. i use all my skills but i have bat companion so that only once.
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Thx for the quick help 
Atm i am on the train and will be able to access D3 again on sunday or so.. As soon as I get home, I will post my build.
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On the topic of bows vs. xbows, there are two differences: Archery and Attack Speed.
Let's cover Archery first.
- Bows grant a +15% increase to your total damage, pretty simple. The only difference comes when you get Steady Aim. If you get Steady Aim, Archery will give you a +12.5% increase to overall DPS instead of +15%.
- Crossbows grant a +50% crit damage. So if your crit chance is high but your crit damage is lacking, it gives a very nice bonus.
Do a bit of math with your current crit chance and crit damage. If +50% crit grants around +12.5% DPS then you'll know a bow with equivalent DPS and stats will provide about the same DPS.
Attack speed affects Demon Hunters in the following ways
- Slow Attack speeds:
1. Hatred usage is more effective
2. Cooldown based attacks are more effective
- Fast attack speeds:
1. Kiting is more effective
2. On-hit effects like Night Stalker and LoH are more effective
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On August 02 2012 21:55 Novalisk wrote:
- Slow Attack speeds:
1. Hatred usage is more effective
2. Cooldown based attacks are more effective
- Fast attack speeds:
1. Kiting is more effective
2. On-hit effects like Night Stalker and LoH are more effective
Care to elaborate on this?
I'll tell you by saying that I'm a bow user. hehe
I hear that stated point alot in every Bow vs Xbow discussion, but I don't really follow its logic behind.
So if I shoot faster with a bow, am I more likely to miss my shots? And if xbow shoots out slower, my accuracy is now over the roof? TBH, I never miss any of my shots shooting above AS of 2.00+ (at work, but I think exact is 2.17 on top of my head)
Considering X-Bow hits for alot harder shot by shot, shouldn't missing even ONE shot hurt ALOT more than a bow user missing 3-4 times?
As far as I understand, the only benefit of using X-Bow is DPS boost. Granted, a huge one.
I don't want to sound rude, but convince me otherwise.
Thanks.
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It has nothing to do with accuracy. With a crossbow that does heavy damage at low attack speed, you spend your hatred more effectively than with a fast bow with the same DPS. Why? Because each single attack deals more damage. If you spend 100 hatred on two cluster arrows with the xbow, you deal more damage (not DPS!) than with the bow. If you fire elemental arrows until you run out of hatred, you do the same DPS at first, but then the slow xbow continues to dish out elemental arrow damage while the fast bow has already run out of hatred. Again, superior total damage for the xbow and more efficient hatred spending.
Fast weapons, on the other hands, generate hatred more quickly and are better with on-hit effects.
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On August 02 2012 23:15 Scorch wrote:
It has nothing to do with accuracy. With a crossbow that does heavy damage at low attack speed, you spend your hatred more effectively than with a fast bow with the same DPS. Why? Because each single attack deals more damage. If you spend 100 hatred on two cluster arrows with the xbow, you deal more damage (not DPS!) than with the bow. If you fire elemental arrows until you run out of hatred, you do the same DPS at first, but then the slow xbow continues to dish out elemental arrow damage while the fast bow has already run out of hatred. Again, superior total damage for the xbow and more efficient hatred spending.
Fast weapons, on the other hands, generate hatred more quickly and are better with on-hit effects.
Pretty much. If hatred was purely on-hit based like Fury and Spirit, then attack speed won't matter for hatred spending. However seeing as hatred is significantly regenerative, slow attack speeds use it to greater effect.
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Higher attack speed also means less overkill. You could have a billion DPS on your char sheet but it wouldn't matter if a target dies in 1 crit anyways.
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On August 02 2012 21:55 Novalisk wrote:
- Fast attack speeds:
1. Kiting is more effective
NO, this is wrong!! Kiting is more effective with SLOWER bows T___T
you're able to do more DPS per distance covered with a slower (and hard-hitting) bow
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On August 03 2012 00:39 MysticaL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 21:55 Novalisk wrote:
- Fast attack speeds:
1. Kiting is more effective
NO, this is wrong!! Kiting is more effective with SLOWER bows T___T you're able to do more DPS per distance covered with a slower (and hard-hitting) bow
What? That makes no sense.
Faster animation = less time spent standing instead of running = more movement speed = better kiting capabilities.
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On August 03 2012 01:20 Novalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 00:39 MysticaL wrote:On August 02 2012 21:55 Novalisk wrote:
- Fast attack speeds:
1. Kiting is more effective
NO, this is wrong!! Kiting is more effective with SLOWER bows T___T you're able to do more DPS per distance covered with a slower (and hard-hitting) bow What? That makes no sense. Faster animation = less time spent standing instead of running = more movement speed = better kiting capabilities.
Nah, in my experience, the time you spend from the longer casting animation is more than made up from the faster time it takes to kill the monster. Not to mention, you're mostly hatred starved when you're kiting if you're using a big hatred dump, which means a slow weapon gives you more bang for your buck.
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Great, now I feel really bad for buying a bow instead of an Xbow.
The offer was just so tempting: 120 Dex, ~360 LoH and Socket, 1050 DPS for 1kk.
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On August 03 2012 01:20 Novalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 00:39 MysticaL wrote:On August 02 2012 21:55 Novalisk wrote:
- Fast attack speeds:
1. Kiting is more effective
NO, this is wrong!! Kiting is more effective with SLOWER bows T___T you're able to do more DPS per distance covered with a slower (and hard-hitting) bow What? That makes no sense. Faster animation = less time spent standing instead of running = more movement speed = better kiting capabilities.
Yes, but each time you stop, you're doing less damage. So basically, doing more damage per shot allows you to be more efficient with your hatred and stop less while you kite.
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On August 03 2012 02:14 kafkaesque wrote:
Great, now I feel really bad for buying a bow instead of an Xbow.
The offer was just so tempting: 120 Dex, ~360 LoH and Socket, 1050 DPS for 1kk.
The difference isn't gamebreaking, you'll be fine.
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I prefer a fast bow over a slow xbow.
Much more fun to kite.
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Using a bow definitely makes it easier to kite. Its a matter of style, I prefer a bow since i run a high speed/mobility build with nat set with vault/smoke/tac advantage and covering fire.
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I completed inferno using a bow (1150 DPS) but have switched to a 2h xbow now. I would say that the xbow is better for kiting than the bow - also, it scales better with crit.
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Legolas, Green Arrow and Hawkeye use bows, so bows are undeniably superior.
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In my experience xbows deal much more FROM dmg than bows. Just look at dmg from - dmg to spec on xbow/bow for same dps.
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Some crude numbers to show why bows are so bad compared to crossbows. Let's say you have a crossbow that hits once per second for 1000 dmg (1k dps) or a bow that hits twice per second for 500 dmg (also 1k dps). Now you can fire 2 cluster bombs with your hatred for 600% weapon damage, so your crossbow will hit for 12k damage total, and the bow for 6k. Add 33% crit 200% crit damage, and the difference becomes 24k damage over 12k.
There is also lots of CC in D3, where you are frozen and can't dps, mobs will wall you off or shield themselves, you have to run extensively from arcane without being able to fire.. you really want every shot to matter, so you get a crossbow.
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EPT
