On July 12 2012 13:33 wintergt wrote: DH tank is quite fun and despite my crappy gear for it, quite effective. Try it out if you feel like facetanking like a barb or monk on your DH.
Short 1:39 vid:
Damn, whassup with DPS'er nowadays lol, I've seen Wiz tank even better than monk and barb due to their freeze/chill. Now DH with shield that can't even die. So weird lol, hell man even WD could roll easily anywhere with 80k HP lol.
On July 13 2012 13:09 Hydrolisko wrote: any dh's out there running a life on hit build? if so, what is ur advice? how much loh is necessary?
Funny you ask that right after I post a vid about it . I now run a full tank LOH build, but other semi-tanky ones are viable too. You will need atleast 1400 LOH, and high HP (i have 55k now) and the key is that you outheal the damage as fast as it comes in. Get a 1h crossbow and a sacred shield with high block%.
Most crucial is shuriken cloud and Caltrops, the aoe will proc insane LOH, especially when you can trap many inside it. For example on Ghom, I can tank him inside his poison clouds as long as there are poison mobs around to leech off of. When they die to my aoe, I start to lose life and I have to move back.
What sucks to face with this build are ranged elites that run away, and elites with nasty affixes that force you to kite (molten desecrator frozen arcane), it took me 9 minutes today to kill a group of those Colossal Gorgors in act 3 with shielding nightmarish desecrator frozen. Still, for me it actually performs better than my DPS spec.
On July 13 2012 13:09 Hydrolisko wrote: any dh's out there running a life on hit build? if so, what is ur advice? how much loh is necessary?
Funny you ask that right after I post a vid about it . I now run a full tank LOH build, but other semi-tanky ones are viable too. You will need atleast 1400 LOH, and high HP (i have 55k now) and the key is that you outheal the damage as fast as it comes in. Get a 1h crossbow and a sacred shield with high block%.
Most crucial is shuriken cloud and Caltrops, the aoe will proc insane LOH, especially when you can trap many inside it. For example on Ghom, I can tank him inside his poison clouds as long as there are poison mobs around to leech off of. When they die to my aoe, I start to lose life and I have to move back.
What sucks to face with this build are ranged elites that run away, and elites with nasty affixes that force you to kite (molten desecrator frozen arcane), it took me 9 minutes today to kill a group of those Colossal Gorgors in act 3 with shielding nightmarish desecrator frozen. Still, for me it actually performs better than my DPS spec.
Mango thanks for the tips.
Wintergt that is an awesome build haha, very cool. A couple questions. Why are you using a bow for wep when you are grenading? Is it just for the Rapid Fire? Afaik you can use any wep for grenade right? Also, is this build farm viable? How fast can you clear a3 with it and how much do you die? Do you skip certain affixes? Let me know! thanks
Also--what's your gear setup like? how did you get 133k dps?
Not 133k dps, 13k dps lol. Now I have 15k. As a tank DH you won't ever have more 25k. But I found my damage output was too low for farming, so I switched up my gear a bit, and used a max single target DPS tank build. DH tank won't be the fastest farming spec, but for ~3 mil in gear I am quite happy with it.
I put up a new vid, this one is a bit longer (7 minutes) but you can see the speed of clearing act 3. Or just skip to the end, I show the build (you will need this build if you ever want to kill Belial, a treasure goblin, or decent speeds in act 3), my stats and some gear tips.
On July 12 2012 13:33 wintergt wrote: DH tank is quite fun and despite my crappy gear for it, quite effective. Try it out if you feel like facetanking like a barb or monk on your DH.
Been running a similar build with a pretty good LoH 1-hander. The DPS isn't very high, but you can certainly do stuff you never thought possible on a DH, like out-tanking a barb.
So I'm on Act 2 inferno now on my DH with pretty good dps for this stage i believe (38k dps without sharpshooter, 85k with; 25k hp and 315 all resist). I'm able to deal with most rare mobs but I'm having a ton of a trouble against Reflect Damage. It's just a pain in the ass to get punished for being able to do damage (not to mention the pack I last faced also had Extra Health and Vortex...). How am I supposed to deal with them besides just running endlessly waiting for Preparation/Potion cooldowns?
I'm just new to my DH so I'm not too familiar with most abilities outside the basic build (hungering strike/elemental arrow (lightning ball)/bat/caltrops/preparation/smoke screen). This is my 2nd character so I just power leveled my way to inferno without testing out all the different abilities like I did with my 1st character.
Where should I be looking to upgrade my gear, as posted below? I'm on a tight budget, but I'm sure I can do better than what I have right now without shelling out millions upon millions per piece of equipment...
I'm thinking helm and weapon? Obviously my weapon should probably have crit damage and/or a socket, but I got that bow very cheaply and high dps + crit damage weapons get really expensive really quickly. The chest I'm unsure about. It gives me a ton of life, but it's missing +disc; is that really that important? The helm I'm almost sure should have crit chance, but when I look for crit chance helms, the only ones with similarly high dex/vit are pretty expensive, and it's only like 2% CC anyway.
I have a lacuni prowlers (no dex/cc/useful mods), and the extra run speed feels very handy, but using them costs me 2k dps and 50 res all and some MF (sadface). I have another set of bracers that adds 2k life without dropping my damage, but that costs me a bit of MF. I made an effort to stack a small but hopefully noticeable amount of MF (68% pre-NV) -- is that worthwhile?
Thanks for any responses.
Edit: In case it matters, I've been using the slow-centric build from that 5M DH thread... Archery and the passive that +dmg to slow and distant targets, entangling shot and cold arrow on L/R click, and evasive skills on 1-4. SS, vault, gloom, and preparation. I feel like SS and vault together is overkill, but I've come to rely on them. Same deal with the way I use preparation with the healing rune instead of the 30% chance of no cooldown rune; I feel like gloom doesn't heal me all that much but being able to hit a button for an instant 21k life and full disc is pretty awesome...
On July 14 2012 09:36 Iranon wrote: Where should I be looking to upgrade my gear, as posted below? I'm on a tight budget, but I'm sure I can do better than what I have right now without shelling out millions upon millions per piece of equipment...
I'm thinking helm and weapon? Obviously my weapon should probably have crit damage and/or a socket, but I got that bow very cheaply and high dps + crit damage weapons get really expensive really quickly. The chest I'm unsure about. It gives me a ton of life, but it's missing +disc; is that really that important? The helm I'm almost sure should have crit chance, but when I look for crit chance helms, the only ones with similarly high dex/vit are pretty expensive, and it's only like 2% CC anyway.
I have a lacuni prowlers (no dex/cc/useful mods), and the extra run speed feels very handy, but using them costs me 2k dps and 50 res all and some MF (sadface). I have another set of bracers that adds 2k life without dropping my damage, but that costs me a bit of MF. I made an effort to stack a small but hopefully noticeable amount of MF (68% pre-NV) -- is that worthwhile?
Thanks for any responses.
Edit: In case it matters, I've been using the slow-centric build from that 5M DH thread... Archery and the passive that +dmg to slow and distant targets, entangling shot and cold arrow on L/R click, and evasive skills on 1-4. SS, vault, gloom, and preparation. I feel like SS and vault together is overkill, but I've come to rely on them. Same deal with the way I use preparation with the healing rune instead of the 30% chance of no cooldown rune; I feel like gloom doesn't heal me all that much but being able to hit a button for an instant 21k life and full disc is pretty awesome...
Not sure how it is for other Gloom DHs, but my sweet spot was reaching around 50k DPS to where I can consistently survive off the damage mitigation/life leech of Shadow Power. I still have SS on my bar out of necessity vs things like jailer/desecrate, but I'm almost entirely using SP to farm Act 3 elites. Relying on SP feels so much safer because not only do you double the value of your Discpline bar (3 second SP vs 1.5 second SS), you're less at the mercy of lag spikes/elite affixes.
As for your gear, I would definitely recommend not trying to fit MF into your regular gear. Of course it also depends on what act you farm, but you should be able find a cheap 200% MF set of cheap rares/blues for act 1. For act 3, unless you're investing several million into each piece, the MF you get from "value gear" will almost always come at the cost of critical stats.
33% CC w/o a crit helm is solid, but as you pointed out, not having a crit damage weapon means you won't really see the benefits of it.
On July 14 2012 07:41 o3.power91 wrote: So I'm on Act 2 inferno now on my DH with pretty good dps for this stage i believe (38k dps without sharpshooter, 85k with; 25k hp and 315 all resist). I'm able to deal with most rare mobs but I'm having a ton of a trouble against Reflect Damage. It's just a pain in the ass to get punished for being able to do damage (not to mention the pack I last faced also had Extra Health and Vortex...). How am I supposed to deal with them besides just running endlessly waiting for Preparation/Potion cooldowns?
I'm just new to my DH so I'm not too familiar with most abilities outside the basic build (hungering strike/elemental arrow (lightning ball)/bat/caltrops/preparation/smoke screen). This is my 2nd character so I just power leveled my way to inferno without testing out all the different abilities like I did with my 1st character.
use SP/gloom. reflect damage is a joke with that, literally.
my build is the same as yours except without the bat. Getting +disc helps as well for more glooms when fighting elites
On July 12 2012 13:33 wintergt wrote: DH tank is quite fun and despite my crappy gear for it, quite effective. Try it out if you feel like facetanking like a barb or monk on your DH.
Been running a similar build with a pretty good LoH 1-hander. The DPS isn't very high, but you can certainly do stuff you never thought possible on a DH, like out-tanking a barb.
Yep same, so much fun. I switched to a more DPS oriented build with Mark and Loaded for Bear and no defensive abilities, surprisingly it still works. I can clear act 3, tank Ghom in his gas forever, etc. The reason I switched was that some encounters just require more DPS. I couldn't kill Belial before enrage or kill a treasure goblin. Now I can kill Belial just fine. And he has 6.5 mil hp, enrage timer is 3 minutes so you need more than 36k average dps to down him. This means my 15k raw DPS is actually doing over 50k single target ingame dps
On July 14 2012 09:36 Iranon wrote: I'm thinking helm and weapon? Obviously my weapon should probably have crit damage and/or a socket, but I got that bow very cheaply and high dps + crit damage weapons get really expensive really quickly. The chest I'm unsure about. It gives me a ton of life, but it's missing +disc; is that really that important? The helm I'm almost sure should have crit chance, but when I look for crit chance helms, the only ones with similarly high dex/vit are pretty expensive, and it's only like 2% CC anyway.
Helm and weapon yes. I'd put 101 critdmg in the AH search parameter, that ensures you are looking for bows with both innate crit damage and a socket. Any additional dex and vitality is welcome. On EU you can get a double critdmg bow with 1k dps for 2 mil, if you want good stats the prices skyrocket fast though. But your build, don't you have problems surviving with only 180 resist all? I have in my DPS gear 330 RA, more armor, 45k dps and still die so easily. I would say get more resists, but if you can survive.. I probably need to try this build out too.
I've been trying out the grenade tank build with 60k dps, 600 all resist with 40k hp. Its definitely doable and fun, but requires a bit more thought in regards to positioning and general awareness. For relaxing farming, I find that a more balanced dps build is a little faster and easier. Tank builds are fun to show off to other people though lol.
On July 14 2012 14:48 ramask2 wrote: I've been trying out the grenade tank build with 60k dps, 600 all resist with 40k hp. Its definitely doable and fun, but requires a bit more thought in regards to positioning and general awareness. For relaxing farming, I find that a more balanced dps build is a little faster and easier. Tank builds are fun to show off to other people though lol.
Do you have 1400+ LOH? Because with DPS over 20k you are actually playing a hybrid build tank/dps. I find the tank build actually easier to play than my tanky DPS build, less need to pay close attention and more easy button mashing.
On July 15 2012 04:37 Pudge_172 wrote: Which follower do you guys use with your DH?
I'm using the build from Mystical's 5mil thread......
In the end I dont think it matters that much and is more of a personal preference than anything. Scoundrel should give the best dps boost if thats what you're looking for, but generally I think people prefer the utility uses of enchantress over scoundrel. Templar is probably more suited for a defensively oriented DH where the heals matter. Heals dont really do anything when you get 2shot by everything anyway. I think enchantress is the most popular (im using her), but yea, go with what you prefer really, it wont make a big impact.
On July 14 2012 14:48 ramask2 wrote: I've been trying out the grenade tank build with 60k dps, 600 all resist with 40k hp. Its definitely doable and fun, but requires a bit more thought in regards to positioning and general awareness. For relaxing farming, I find that a more balanced dps build is a little faster and easier. Tank builds are fun to show off to other people though lol.
Do you have 1400+ LOH? Because with DPS over 20k you are actually playing a hybrid build tank/dps. I find the tank build actually easier to play than my tanky DPS build, less need to pay close attention and more easy button mashing.
You're right I'm using more of a hybrid build. I have 1200 LOH, so it might affect it somewhat. I just find that I really do need to keep an eye out for fire chains, arcane sentries and enemies that explode into poison when dead. Can you really just tank your way through all of those? If so, then yeah it would have been easier to play I suppose...
How long does it take you to kill an act 3 elite mobs with sub-20k DPS? Just curious in case I want to build a pure tank build.
On July 14 2012 14:48 ramask2 wrote: I've been trying out the grenade tank build with 60k dps, 600 all resist with 40k hp. Its definitely doable and fun, but requires a bit more thought in regards to positioning and general awareness. For relaxing farming, I find that a more balanced dps build is a little faster and easier. Tank builds are fun to show off to other people though lol.
Do you have 1400+ LOH? Because with DPS over 20k you are actually playing a hybrid build tank/dps. I find the tank build actually easier to play than my tanky DPS build, less need to pay close attention and more easy button mashing.
You're right I'm using more of a hybrid build. I have 1200 LOH, so it might affect it somewhat. I just find that I really do need to keep an eye out for fire chains, arcane sentries and enemies that explode into poison when dead. Can you really just tank your way through all of those? If so, then yeah it would have been easier to play I suppose...
How long does it take you to kill an act 3 elite mobs with sub-20k DPS? Just curious in case I want to build a pure tank build.
It depends. This whole build hinges on regenerating life through aoe damage. If you are surrounded by enough mobs, you become virtually immortal so long as you don't get oneshot. I frequently tank arcane when I'm surrounded by melee elites. But don't overdo it ofcourse, if you're standing in dececration with a bunch of arcane lasers zapping around and a collosal grogor beating on you, he can oneshot you when your life spikes low, so in such a scenario you need to dodge them. Fire chains, you can tank them too, or just go stand in a small corner so they can't hit you.
Ranged elites however are a whole different ballpark. They will scatter and run out of your aoe and you need to hunt them down individually. In this case you can't tank a whole lot so you need to be careful. If I can, I try to drag some white mobs along to leech off of when I face ranged. Or if you're lucky they are illusionist, for free life leech, then you can kill them as easily as melee.
As for killing speed, it is quite alright. My character sheet says 15k dps, but I am outputting 50k+ single target dps. And this is aoe, if I am surrounded my melee elites they all die at the same time. So for a pack of 4 elites I am doing 200k+, and they die fast enough. Ranged is slower because you need to hunt them down one by one.
EDIT: actually my effective DPS is way higher than that, I killed a blue hulking phasebeast with 1.78mil hp in 19 seconds so that comes down to 93k single target DPS.
On July 14 2012 14:48 ramask2 wrote: I've been trying out the grenade tank build with 60k dps, 600 all resist with 40k hp. Its definitely doable and fun, but requires a bit more thought in regards to positioning and general awareness. For relaxing farming, I find that a more balanced dps build is a little faster and easier. Tank builds are fun to show off to other people though lol.
Do you have 1400+ LOH? Because with DPS over 20k you are actually playing a hybrid build tank/dps. I find the tank build actually easier to play than my tanky DPS build, less need to pay close attention and more easy button mashing.
You're right I'm using more of a hybrid build. I have 1200 LOH, so it might affect it somewhat. I just find that I really do need to keep an eye out for fire chains, arcane sentries and enemies that explode into poison when dead. Can you really just tank your way through all of those? If so, then yeah it would have been easier to play I suppose...
How long does it take you to kill an act 3 elite mobs with sub-20k DPS? Just curious in case I want to build a pure tank build.
EDIT: actually my effective DPS is way higher than that, I killed a blue hulking phasebeast with 1.78mil hp in 19 seconds so that comes down to 93k single target DPS.
I just want to say that this is not a good method for seeing your effective DPS. If you got a lucky streak of crits, or better yet a streak of high crits, you will do a LOT more damage than if you just kill normally, or with below average luck.
If your char sheet says 20k dps, thats your average DPS with an attack that does 100% weapon dmg. With your build though, you have several abilities that deal a lot of dmg over a period while letting you use other abilities (shuriken cloud, jagged spikes, and the sentry). So while you are doing 20k dps, your traps are doing 9k, shuriken is doing 6k, sentry is doing 4k. Meanwhile rapid fire is doing 45k single target (it is 228% of your dps). So single target with rapid fire going you are doing 64k dps, and with grenades with all the other stuff going about 39k.
On July 14 2012 14:48 ramask2 wrote: I've been trying out the grenade tank build with 60k dps, 600 all resist with 40k hp. Its definitely doable and fun, but requires a bit more thought in regards to positioning and general awareness. For relaxing farming, I find that a more balanced dps build is a little faster and easier. Tank builds are fun to show off to other people though lol.
Do you have 1400+ LOH? Because with DPS over 20k you are actually playing a hybrid build tank/dps. I find the tank build actually easier to play than my tanky DPS build, less need to pay close attention and more easy button mashing.
You're right I'm using more of a hybrid build. I have 1200 LOH, so it might affect it somewhat. I just find that I really do need to keep an eye out for fire chains, arcane sentries and enemies that explode into poison when dead. Can you really just tank your way through all of those? If so, then yeah it would have been easier to play I suppose...
How long does it take you to kill an act 3 elite mobs with sub-20k DPS? Just curious in case I want to build a pure tank build.
EDIT: actually my effective DPS is way higher than that, I killed a blue hulking phasebeast with 1.78mil hp in 19 seconds so that comes down to 93k single target DPS.
I just want to say that this is not a good method for seeing your effective DPS. If you got a lucky streak of crits, or better yet a streak of high crits, you will do a LOT more damage than if you just kill normally, or with below average luck.
If your char sheet says 20k dps, thats your average DPS with an attack that does 100% weapon dmg. With your build though, you have several abilities that deal a lot of dmg over a period while letting you use other abilities (shuriken cloud, jagged spikes, and the sentry). So while you are doing 20k dps, your traps are doing 9k, shuriken is doing 6k, sentry is doing 4k. Meanwhile rapid fire is doing 45k single target (it is 228% of your dps). So single target with rapid fire going you are doing 64k dps, and with grenades with all the other stuff going about 39k.
The crit should average out quite fast, because I am doing a lot of small damage from different sources, and my crit dmg is only at the base 50%. There is however still a lot of fluctuation. On Azmodan (tanked him through his pools) I get: 7.34mil hp, 56s = 131k dps. Ghom 2 kills, 7.6mil hp, 64s = 118 dps, 69s = 110k dps. This is all off of 15k base.
I am not doing the build you describe btw, I use caltrops, shuriken, gas grenades, loaded for bear, mark and i have bleed on my shield. My 4.5 dps enchantress may also have a bit of an impact.
EPT
. I now run a full tank LOH build, but other semi-tanky ones are viable too. You will need atleast 1400 LOH, and high HP (i have 55k now) and the key is that you outheal the damage as fast as it comes in. Get a 1h crossbow and a sacred shield with high block%. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/faYKI.jpg)
