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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On February 22 2011 08:27 CheekyDuck wrote: Has anyone put this on youtube yet? or justin tv?? i cant get access to gom at work =) much <3 ! That would be illegal and I don't think TL would endorse it. Also, I haven't seen many GSL matches being uploaded to Youtube besides maybe the semis and finals. | ||
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NabeShogun
Canada18 Posts
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DaRKMaTT3r
Brazil553 Posts
I really hope she take into consideration, not the bashing, but the actual feedback that was given and try to improve during this code A. | ||
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Yoz
Australia357 Posts
On February 22 2011 05:54 NEWater wrote: Well, if you guys want to deliver your criticism directly to her, the SEA community has our own little community forum which she directly responded to my posts with this: http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4433/6pool5times.jpg It's at sc2sea.com I'm not sure the SC2Sea community wants a whole stack of people coming in to flame Kelly with first post accounts. I'm pretty sure she's smart enough to read the TeamLiquid forums. | ||
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Yoz
Australia357 Posts
On February 22 2011 04:42 yomother25 wrote: My problem is as a broadcaster your job is to basically tell the story of what is happening on screen. If you cannot understand the caster it really hurts the quality of the stream. There are many jobs where a thick accent is not a problem but when your key job is to speak clearly and describe the action. Actually, I feel as though there's a little change in the way shoutcasting is moving. A long time ago in the days of CS1.6 and WC3 the shoutcast was audio-only. What this means is that the shoutcaster's job is to observe and describe what is happening. If an old-style shoutcaster for described the play-by-play action without any insight it would be alright because we were relying on them for our eyes and ears in-game. However, now with the addition of visual streaming I think the role of the shoutcaster has changed. A little descriptive work is required but I feel their job is predominantly to add value to the visual streaming. Adding value in my opinion can be: - Adding expert analysis on the situation / match-up / player styles - Adding excitement to the stream or making the boring parts less boring - Adding note to anything which is invisible to viewers (such as food counts which are hard to see on the lower resolution streams) Realistically, in addition to asking the 'why' questions as I mentioned pages back, Kelly could probably mention (or even just alert Tasteless/Artosis) to anything off-camera so that they can offer insight on it. She could probably learn more about maps and match-ups or about players because that stuff can be well prepared in advance. And if you can prepare in advance you're less likely to get stuff wrong and look like an idiot. I dunno, this is just what I would do, but who knows whether she'll actually take any of this criticism. As soon as I called her unprofessional I got called mean and blocked? She's right in thinking I dislike her personally, but that doesn't mean I want eSports to crash and burn like this. | ||
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NEWater
Singapore178 Posts
On February 22 2011 09:53 Yoz wrote: I dunno, this is just what I would do, but who knows whether she'll actually take any of this criticism. As soon as I called her unprofessional I got called mean and blocked? She's right in thinking I dislike her personally, but that doesn't mean I want eSports to crash and burn like this. QFT | ||
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elsdon
Hong Kong2 Posts
Fact: She isn't ANYWHERE near hot enough to mitigate the disaster that is her voice. | ||
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TheSambassador
United States186 Posts
I can't believe that people are already talking about how "half of the GSL is ruined." Give me a break! You've seen her cast ONE, maybe TWO games. As much as people don't want to admit it, Tastosis really haven't always been amazing. Yes, they're very good and work well together, but some of their earlier stuff was a bit awkward to listen to too. Give her some time... we still have the casting archon for Code S, and I don't mind her at all for Code A. I think calling Hellions Race Cars is perfectly fine :p | ||
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SwiftSpear
Canada355 Posts
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ke_ivan
Singapore374 Posts
On February 22 2011 05:54 NEWater wrote: Well, if you guys want to deliver your criticism directly to her, the SEA community has our own little community forum which she directly responded to my posts with this: http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4433/6pool5times.jpg It's at sc2sea.com I still have mixed feelings, especially after reading it. mOOnGLaDe wrote: "who cares if you think she doesn't have the right accent for it, shes going, its going to happen regardless of your negative opinions. Support her regardless because shes representing SEA, our community." (http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=735) And it's kinda true for us where we only have one player representing us (mOOnGLaDe) and a caster (Kelly). Sure, I (really!) miss Tastosis jokes, and her casting isn't something I'd incessantly listen to (unlike Tastosis), but I'd rather take some representation over no representation. So until someone better steps up, I guess I'm going to support her. After all, sometimes it's not about who has the ability to cast, but rather who's willing to cast. And if no one was willing to cast in that time frame, and she was, who are we to flame her? True, I paid for the ticket, and in my opinion, it's the company decision that's at fault. and the competition that didn't show up. Also, for your reference, what other casters in our region said: Originally Posted by Benji View Post I know I didn't apply (selling my house, belongings and taking a lower paying job? Really?), and I assume by Unstables response he didn't either. I'd say she was the only SEA caster to apply, although there were some US ones that apparently did. (http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=735&page=3) So basically GOMTV isn't paying that well for casters. It might not be reasonable for the fans, but it is reasonable for the business. There will be a number of viewers (like me) who want to continue to watch Tastosis in Code S so we'll be willing to pay for a sub-standard Code A. Concurrently, there is a Korean stream going on that will help support the international casts (I think there will be more Korean viewers than anything else). From a business perspective, I'd think it's a win-win situation. Sure, it's not ideal but I'm still gonna get the critical profit I need to expand, and maybe even pay my veteran casters better in the long run. Dogsi the organiser also wrote: You guys can hate on Kelly all you want. In the end, she had more than 5 times the audience of any other caster I've had. Is she the best caster in SEA? I'd agree with the majority here and say no. BUT, yes, being a cute young woman caters more to the SC2 demographic (nerdy young men, many of whom can't get laid). She has a Singlish accent. However, it's not THAT bad. As far as SInglish goes, her Singlish accent is fairly mild actually. Basically, give her a chance, see how she does. Good luck Kelly. (http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=735&page=3) All this is just a practical business person speaking. If it's fair or not is something that capitalism (or economic Darwinism) will decide. | ||
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NEWater
Singapore178 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
EDIT: To the guy below, you have a REALLY good point about the canned analysis. The map analysis sounded worse than the chick reading the script at MLG. It was really terribad, I felt embarrassed watching it honestly. Also, how do we know SDM is even into Starcraft 2 at all? Did I miss something? | ||
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elsdon
Hong Kong2 Posts
You already have one caster that has no idea what he's talking about (Tasteless). Adding a second caster that has even less of an idea of what is going on is not going to help the "scene" understand the finer intricacies of this game. I think Tasteless and Artosis need to wipe their 'fuckslits'. Wah wah, I get paid to cast STARCRAFT 2 GAMES FOR A LIVING. In lieu of forcing GOM to hire any trash off the street, they should have just held the fort until GOM found suitable people that the community supported instead of trying to force another terrible female commentator on us. Constructive Criticism: - She knows less about this game than that HDstarcraft (Husky?) guy, and he knows almost nothing. - Her accent/voice is neither pleasant or easily understood - Her 'value add' I would presume is in her 'comedic' meme's and anecdotes, she's about as funny as a kidney stone - She does a great job reading canned analysis from paper written probably by Artosis - She is not entertaining - She is not attractive enough to draw in a new user base, I think lilsusie would be a better option. - Although our friends Tasteless and Artosis are not very professional (inappropriate jokes / biased commentaries etc.), she makes them sound like veritable Marv Alberts. 1000+ posts later here on TL, GOM, do the right thing. Pull this silly hoe before you alienate even more of your die hard community. I was serious before: Bring back SuperDanielMan. User was banned for this post. | ||
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Yes, well. I probably shouldn't say anything at all since all people link to outside of this forum out of context that makes me look like an a-hole and I can't take criticisms. I have a lot of people helping me in Korea they are all that matters at the moment. A lot of points people pointed out I am already working on. People don't seem to link all the more, how to you put it, genuine stuff I say. They take only the bad context out and screenshot it and copy paste it to other places. I am honestly working really hard in Korea. I I am having fun on screen but off screen I spend a lot of time working on my accent, speed, enunciation etc. I have people in Korea that are speaking to me ala a semi-English class everyday so I can adopt the more acceptable way of saying certain words and units. To clear a major point up, I obviously know what a Hellion is. And I do not say Bruu. I say Blue. As for Zealots, I discussed this before my casts whether to say zee-lot or zeh-lert and apparently zee-lot is ok, which was why I went with it. The reason why I am replying here and not on TL is that nobody will care what I say there. Also, this is my own community, I care about what my community thinks a lot. I know there are certain stuff I need to work on, but understand that some things that people say are just out right hate and uncalled for aggressiveness. The people who are extremely harsh to me already have a fixed mindset that I don't think I can change at the moment. I am going to watch my VODs now and see what I can improve on. So I will write later. __________________ On twitter: Thanks guys just read all my @ twits. Thanks for telling me on what I should work on. I will. And yes, throwing out my grack fancards.  | ||
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sandyph
Indonesia1640 Posts
On February 19 2011 01:03 zeru wrote: Im german, live in sweden and have lived in australia. I have a problem with her accent. Its horrific. I live in Singapore and I have a problem with the accent (which I hear everyday, everywhere) heck, even the Singapore goverment have a problem with the accent and try to get rid of it http://www.goodenglish.org.sg/ | ||
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Jnai
United States442 Posts
The problem is not really the enunciation, although that doesn't help. The problem is the fact she doesn't really fit into a cast with Tasteless. Taking professional sportscasting as the ideal model system, the two person booth is, in general, a play-by-play man and a color analyst. The pbp guy not only describes the action on the field, but also creates dialog, sometimes interjects humor, understands the pacing of the game and knows when to communicate excitement, etc. Tasteless is this guy. His partner is a color guy. Artosis is someone who analyzes the strategy and the players. He brings up the fact that a new build order is out on the Korean ladder and that's what we're seeing. He goes and interviews players in their house. He talks to players (esp. Idra) about their build orders before the match. He provides the depth of knowledge that lets the broadcast really work. Plus, as he and Tasteless he have a long history of working together and share the same sense of humor, the team is just plain fun to listen to. In today's cast with Kelly, they tried to switch Tasteless into the Artosis role and have him do color. But, he was also doing the large bulk of the play by play. This left Kelly with virtually nothing useful left to say. She was invited to comment some games, but she had no meaningful role. It's not all lost, though. It might be different with Artosis. She might be better in a PBP role with a more practiced color commentator. Or, she might improve over the course of the season. Remember how much we hated the new observer? And now, I think we can all agree that the observer does a fantastic job. So, bottom line, tl;dr version: It's hard to pin this on Kelly. It's probably a combination of bad commentary skills (which can be improved), lack of experience (which will be improved) and perhaps a strange pairing with Tasteless. I am hopeful that she will do well over the course of the season as they work out the kinks and find a more suitable role for her on the broadcast. | ||
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ke_ivan
Singapore374 Posts
On February 22 2011 12:33 Jnai wrote: I just watched. After reading the posts on TL I thought it was going to be beyond horrible. I wouldn't say it's good, but it's not bad either. The problem is not really the enunciation, although that doesn't help. The problem is the fact she doesn't really fit into a cast with Tasteless. Taking professional sportscasting as the ideal model system, the two person booth is, in general, a play-by-play man and a color analyst. The pbp guy not only describes the action on the field, but also creates dialog, sometimes interjects humor, understands the pacing of the game and knows when to communicate excitement, etc. Tasteless is this guy. His partner is a color guy. Artosis is someone who analyzes the strategy and the players. He brings up the fact that a new build order is out on the Korean ladder and that's what we're seeing. He goes and interviews players in their house. He talks to players (esp. Idra) about their build orders before the match. He provides the depth of knowledge that lets the broadcast really work. Plus, as he and Tasteless he have a long history of working together and share the same sense of humor, the team is just plain fun to listen to. In today's cast with Kelly, they tried to switch Tasteless into the Artosis role and have him do color. But, he was also doing the large bulk of the play by play. This left Kelly with virtually nothing useful left to say. She was invited to comment some games, but she had no meaningful role. It's not all lost, though. It might be different with Artosis. She might be better in a PBP role with a more practiced color commentator. Or, she might improve over the course of the season. Remember how much we hated the new observer? And now, I think we can all agree that the observer does a fantastic job. So, bottom line, tl;dr version: It's hard to pin this on Kelly. It's probably a combination of bad commentary skills (which can be improved), lack of experience (which will be improved) and perhaps a strange pairing with Tasteless. I am hopeful that she will do well over the course of the season as they work out the kinks and find a more suitable role for her on the broadcast. Excellent analyses. Couldn't agree more with what you said. Thank you for the additional information on casting protocol. I learnt something new today. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On February 22 2011 12:20 Froadac wrote: She responded on the other forums, for those that are interested + Show Spoiler + Yes, well. I probably shouldn't say anything at all since all people link to outside of this forum out of context that makes me look like an a-hole and I can't take criticisms. I have a lot of people helping me in Korea they are all that matters at the moment. A lot of points people pointed out I am already working on. People don't seem to link all the more, how to you put it, genuine stuff I say. They take only the bad context out and screenshot it and copy paste it to other places. I am honestly working really hard in Korea. I I am having fun on screen but off screen I spend a lot of time working on my accent, speed, enunciation etc. I have people in Korea that are speaking to me ala a semi-English class everyday so I can adopt the more acceptable way of saying certain words and units. To clear a major point up, I obviously know what a Hellion is. And I do not say Bruu. I say Blue. As for Zealots, I discussed this before my casts whether to say zee-lot or zeh-lert and apparently zee-lot is ok, which was why I went with it. The reason why I am replying here and not on TL is that nobody will care what I say there. Also, this is my own community, I care about what my community thinks a lot. I know there are certain stuff I need to work on, but understand that some things that people say are just out right hate and uncalled for aggressiveness. The people who are extremely harsh to me already have a fixed mindset that I don't think I can change at the moment. I am going to watch my VODs now and see what I can improve on. So I will write later. __________________ On twitter: Thanks guys just read all my @ twits. Thanks for telling me on what I should work on. I will. And yes, throwing out my grack fancards. Yeah I've gotten a similar reply personally (I sent her an email of what I think she can improve on) so that boosted my respect for her quite a bit. She's definitely working on what needs to be worked on and she definitely takes criticism or advice to heart as long as it's not pointless bashing. She's pretty cool. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
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GameGenie
Japan3 Posts
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