EPTDavid Kim Blizzcon Interview about balance - Page 3
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
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Maaku
United Kingdom142 Posts
On October 24 2010 23:08 Televiros wrote: 5th question from bottom that would be so lame on blizzards part terran have a awsome counter which is ghost's emp, emp has range 9+2 splash which outranges feedback/storm and has an added benefit of of instagibbing most toss units as it takes away 100 shield as well. Ghost is a tier 1.5 unit while HT is tier 3 so wtf blizzard if u nerf storm u ought to nerf ghost/emp big time to. + to this ghosts to can insta emp with +ene upgrade researched but it seems that people seem to forget HTs need both storm+amulet researched and cant insta storm without amulet. edit in addition to this the no of things that could be feedbacked was reduced in last patch by 2 so HTs have already recieved a nerf. Its not as black and white as you make it. You're looking at it from a emp vs ht, But you gotta consider others units such as colossus which are in the mix. Or the fact hts can be warped it at will while ghosts take agges to build. | ||
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AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
On October 24 2010 23:08 Televiros wrote: 5th question from bottom that would be so lame on blizzards part terran have a awsome counter which is ghost's emp, emp has range 9+2 splash which outranges feedback/storm and has an added benefit of of instagibbing most toss units as it takes away 100 shield as well. Ghost is a tier 1.5 unit while HT is tier 3 so wtf blizzard if u nerf storm u ought to nerf ghost/emp big time to. + to this ghosts to can insta emp with +ene upgrade researched but it seems that people seem to forget HTs need both storm+amulet researched and cant insta storm without amulet. edit in addition to this the no of things that could be feedbacked was reduced in last patch by 2 so HTs have already recieved a nerf. The issue is that terrran is basically forced to go MMM + vikings the entire game because tanks and bcs are not worth it anymore since their nerfs. Protoss HT, however, just absolutely demolish that combination. Even with a lot of ghosts mixed in, you can't possibly hope to EMP more than half of the templar (if you put ghosts in front of your army, they get fried by colossus). 5 storms on your army = badly lost battle. It gets especially bad because protoss can warp in templar and cast a storm immediately. Are you saying terran should be able to react instantly and have enough energy to constantly EMP almost every templar that gets warped in? EMP is not a counter to templar; it merely works as a mitigation. I personally hate this problem so much that I refuse to go MMM in TvP and instead incorporate a banshee heavy army. But I always feel like toss has the upper hand past the early/midgame in this matchup. | ||
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On October 24 2010 22:55 GenericTerranPlayer wrote: Oh come on, don't post like this is you aren't going to at least voice out WHY you think Protoss should have instant storms. Right now P can pretty much dial a storm and they're already so cost effective against bioball, a nerf is going to help terran a little in the lategame. I guess I'm not sure T needs the help. One issue late game is that stalkers are very weak thanks to only getting +1 per weapon upgrade (as opposed to marauders/roaches/etc.). This makes it hard for the P to have a versatile late game army - a niche tempalrs must continue to help fill. T has the tools to handle storm just fine: tanks out-range templars, ghosts make them useless in a cost effective manner, and scans + sentry towers let you keep tabs on them. Heck, even stim-moving your units out of the way works OK. A nerf would be pretty bad in PvZ as well. | ||
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unbal3
Korea (South)131 Posts
On October 24 2010 23:28 Logros wrote: I don't mind a nerf to HT if they atleast make them easier to get. Right now they hardly get any play because tech through Twilight Council -> Templar Archives -> Psy Storm -> Amulet takes so frikkin' long just to have a unit that can do something. well... high templars, as a unit, are kind of at the top tier. even in brood war, it was Citadel -> Archives -> Storm, and i'm pretty certain the amulet upgrade did nothing but to boost their max energy. kind of like going carriers, you need a build with high templars in the plan. | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On October 24 2010 22:55 GenericTerranPlayer wrote: Oh come on, don't post like this is you aren't going to at least voice out WHY you think Protoss should have instant storms. Right now P can pretty much dial a storm and they're already so cost effective against bioball, a nerf is going to help terran a little in the lategame. wow you really ARE a genericterranplayer :D Seriously though lategame storm is ridiculous vs T | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On October 24 2010 23:40 TheAntZ wrote: wow you really ARE a genericterranplayer :D Seriously though lategame storm is ridiculous vs T In Brood War storms made bio unviable against protoss in late-game. The fact terran still goes MMM in late-game against protoss, even despite storms, maybe says more about their other options. | ||
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mkfk1
United Kingdom153 Posts
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
I agree with him about almost everything. Dont you dare nerfing storm without nerfing marauders though Nerfing storm could also make it really shitty in PvZ | ||
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derwaynez
Germany3 Posts
And anyone who says HT´s are overpowered just never played protoss - you cant go templar before colossus, if terran attacks you before you have the HT´s or before they have enough energy you´re just DEAD and if you don´t have 10 templar´s and you can´t have them without having 3 bases, the terran can just EMP all your HT´s and then your also dead...and all the terran´s i´m playing again aren´t using any ghosts in the very late game and if terran is too bad to just make ghosts... it´s not a balance problem...and what´s with warping in templars and doing storms immeditly...if you don´t have enough gateway units these templars dont help you in just any way and yes as they say terran 6% win adventage and just ask all the protoss in the middle of diamond league like 1500-1800 points...they are all just losing so bad against terran, because terran is just so much easier to play and you can do way more mistakes than the protoss... just play PvT as protoss and then look what you say over this matchup and sorry i know my english isn´t the best  | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
after feedback is so less useless then before the last patch that would be a huge nerf for HT i think i think perhaps the solution is that terran just go more metal in the end of a game like in sc1 they could also not go bio because of the storms. but with such a strong spell like emp i think its fine as it is | ||
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Polydamas
4 Posts
But I am still wondering why Pillars left. Especially now we know how SC2 turned out. Nerfing storm is not a very elegant solution. Yeah, T is stronger early game, P is stronger late game and Mech is too weak vs P. But if they nerf storm then bio becomes even more dominant vs P. The thing I don't like about SC2 is that armies clump up so much. It is like WC3 without heroes. Last game Loner vs Genuis at Blizzcon was exactly like watching WC3. Both didn't dare to expand and both were moving back and forth, casting some spells engaging for a second and then backing off. They need units to act like they do in SC BW but with better pathfinding (SC2 pathfinding isn't actually good either). Right now units have almost no space they take up, making them hard to recognize too. Units shove other units out of the way, which is a bitch to micro. Also, units move towards the enemy even if they aren't attacked. I am not used to setting units on hold position because it wasn't needed in SC BW. Now they suddenly attack the enemy without order when they get close enough. I don't mind adjusting, but these units just have a mind of their own. Imagine SC2 with armies that spread out naturally and bigger maps, which benefit the game anyway. That will improve the game soo much, It seems David Kim knows all this, but he is just fighting a losing battle against the others on the dev team. That's exactly how Cowgomoo said things were back long before beta. David Kim, him and a few others would explain the maps are wrong but dev team didn't listen. | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
I'm trying to remember a pro game where I saw Psi-Storm used to such great effect that it seemed overpowered. All I ever see these days are Colossi and Robotics play... yet they're thinking of nerfing Storm? | ||
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monitor
United States2409 Posts
"We are trying to avoid nerfing terran if we can." -David Kim Rofl. What? It seems like you should nerf any race according the how their balance is. If Terran is slightly overpowered, you are not going to nerf them because you nerfed them already? | ||
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Polydamas
4 Posts
Psi storm is overpowered against bio in PvT in SC BW. Also, in PvZ it was very very powerful. And in PvP psi storms on probes were so huge too. SC BW was balanced though maps, not through unit stats. Imagine TvZ without defilers. Blizzard right now doesn't want bio vs P to be like it was in SC BW, obviously. And storm is so easy to spam with autocast and choked maps and unit clumping. | ||
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Tanith
United Kingdom108 Posts
On October 25 2010 00:43 Mjolnir wrote: I'm trying to remember a pro game where I saw Psi-Storm used to such great effect that it seemed overpowered. All I ever see these days are Colossi and Robotics play... yet they're thinking of nerfing Storm? blizzcon final ? | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
However, if the terran player does not EMP all the high templars before a storm gets off, the battle will be tipped in protoss's favor big time. Are you kidding me? They say terran has a slight adventage and then they want to nerf protoss?? WTF? I'm a Terran player and I agree with Blizzard. When I play against protoss, I feel like I have to go bio because of the prominence of 3 gate robo. When I go bio, if I don't end the game early, I feel like I am fucked. My problem is collossus though. I know that I have to attack when there is 1 collossus, because then it will easily be sniped and the protoss army will be weaker. If I do nail that timing, I will likely suffer heavy losses, but also win the battle. I will have an advantage that i can turn into a win by constantly attacking with squads of 8 marauders. However, if I dont attack when there is 2+ collossus. I will likely lose the battle if the protoss is able to keep his collossus on the correct side of his zealots. I often lose against protoss when I feel like I don't deserve to lose. If blizzard hadnt said anything about TvP I wouldn't have either, because I feel like with practise I can overcome nearly any problems. Heck, even stim-moving your units out of the way works OK No man, it doesnt. | ||
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PulseSUI
Switzerland305 Posts
Colossus force Vikings -> less units that can shoot ground and buildtime that could have otherwise gone to Medivacs. Colossus are more mobile Colossus require less Micro Colossus vaporize a bioball far faster once you reach critical mass (wich is easy to reach at the point where psi-storm would come in to play) Colossus are half decent against Mech and double robo allows for faster techswitch in case of heavy mech play Colossus with Vikings on the field are still easyer to keep alive/usefull then Templars with ghosts on the field Colossus never run out of energy and allow for a constand push. but sure.. go and nerf storm.. the OP abillity of protoss that is used in everygame because it is oh so powerfull. | ||
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