EPTDavid Kim Blizzcon Interview about balance - Page 8
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viraltouch
United States299 Posts
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scojac
United States99 Posts
I don't think they should nerf HTs. I think the problem is much more in the Terran army composition. As a Terran, you're pretty much forced to start bio because you get an early advantage, and toss needs good forcefield micro to hold off your attacks until they can get the tech to stop your aggression. However, when the army sizes get bigger (and Toss gets a decent number of HT/colossi), bio doesn't cut it. Players are now trying to support their bio compositions with tanks, thors, or banshees. But I don't really think it's working out. The other option is drop play, which seems to work better because the toss damage dealers are all so slow (immo's, colossi, HTs). Bio units are the only thing for cost that can soak up the DPS of a huge toss army, while still doing damage. I've seen tanks and thors get absolutely rolled by toss armies time and time again. Robo and HT play just destroys higher tier Terran units (immo's RUIN thors/tanks, HTs wreck banshees, dropships, and bcs). Combine this with forcefields, and the terran army really doesn't stand much of a chance imho. If mech play were more viable, terran might have a brighter mid/late game. I hope they buff factory units somehow without damaging ZvT. Making the Thor's cannon spell useful would be a great start. (I dunno, maybe have it start doing damage sooner than 2 or 3 seconds after you start casting?) | ||
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Bijan
United States286 Posts
Too be honest, I like the imbas in SC2. Not that they shouldn't work towards creating a balanced game and eventually perfect it, but the process of reaching that perfection is very fun for me. For one thing, it causes people to constantly change their strategies. It means that every few months, these patterns that people settle into have to change. I especially like how this effects progames. Watching Boxer before and after the tank nerf is very different. I know that as a professional sport, imbas need to be fixed, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the whole process. Some people just get so upset at these things, but the fact is, no race is so OP that it ruins the game. Obviously this is the case or else there would be no market for professional play at all. | ||
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bLuR
Canada625 Posts
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ssregitoss
Turkey241 Posts
On October 26 2010 07:56 scojac wrote: I really like the PvT section of the Q&A. DKim knows what's up. I don't think they should nerf HTs. I think the problem is much more in the Terran army composition. As a Terran, you're pretty much forced to start bio because you get an early advantage, and toss needs good forcefield micro to hold off your attacks until they can get the tech to stop your aggression. However, when the army sizes get bigger (and Toss gets a decent number of HT/colossi), bio doesn't cut it. Players are now trying to support their bio compositions with tanks, thors, or banshees. But I don't really think it's working out. The other option is drop play, which seems to work better because the toss damage dealers are all so slow (immo's, colossi, HTs). Bio units are the only thing for cost that can soak up the DPS of a huge toss army, while still doing damage. I've seen tanks and thors get absolutely rolled by toss armies time and time again. Robo and HT play just destroys higher tier Terran units (immo's RUIN thors/tanks, HTs wreck banshees, dropships, and bcs). Combine this with forcefields, and the terran army really doesn't stand much of a chance imho. If mech play were more viable, terran might have a brighter mid/late game. I hope they buff factory units somehow without damaging ZvT. Making the Thor's cannon spell useful would be a great start. (I dunno, maybe have it start doing damage sooner than 2 or 3 seconds after you start casting?) dropship acc and speed reduced.so dropship plays are not an whole options.but you are forgotting about the options that terran has p. fortress.so they can mass expand and mules.even if you harass svc line it will not be a problem.and terran has always eco avantage over toss.2 units kill mmm.collo and templar.collo is expansive and terran has hardcounter for it (viki).temp tech is late game t3 tech and has semi counter called ghosts.i think after patch 1.2 pvt is pretty balance.and you know terran has lots of strategy options to go.which toss has not. | ||
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scojac
United States99 Posts
On October 26 2010 09:11 ssregitoss wrote: dropship acc and speed reduced.so dropship plays are not an whole options.but you are forgotting about the options that terran has p. fortress.so they can mass expand and mules.even if you harass svc line it will not be a problem.and terran has always eco avantage over toss.2 units kill mmm.collo and templar.collo is expansive and terran has hardcounter for it (viki).temp tech is late game t3 tech and has semi counter called ghosts.i think after patch 1.2 pvt is pretty balance.and you know terran has lots of strategy options to go.which toss has not. Just because dropships are slower doesn't mean they're useless. This is still a great way to catch toss out of position if he has a lot of powerful, slow units. And if you force toss to spend more money on stalkers/blink, that's more time before his HTs and big robo units can come out. You haven't really addressed any of my mech concerns, and you just say that "it's balanced." Thinking solely about which units counter each other is a stupid way to talk about the game, and I'm not going to argue with you about the matchup like that. | ||
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong748 Posts
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
On October 26 2010 10:16 Zealot Lord wrote: Whats the point of ever teching if every single high tech unit can easily get countered/raped by lower tier units? Welcome to Broodwar TvZ. When Terran tier 1.5 rapes everything. I agree with you, but there is precedent to Bio being invincible. I think the Marauder is Blizzard's angry response to no Bio is TvT and TvP in Broodwar. | ||
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Rawenkeke
Norway350 Posts
On October 26 2010 00:54 sikyon wrote: Thor (edit: also hellions) Also: + Show Spoiler + What counters zealots? marauders What counters stalkers? marauders What counters sentries? medivacs What counters immortals? marines What counters collossi? 1-2, marauders. 3+ vikigns What counters pheonix? marines What counters void ray? marines What counters DT? scouting What counters HT.... Hey it's not marines marauders or medivacs?!?! Haha, so true, when they face that one thing they can't beat, in this case storm ( which is pretty crap since it takes like 850 850 to get and can get countered by spreading, ghosts) they start throwing nerfbat ideas. | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On October 26 2010 10:56 Rawenkeke wrote: Haha, so true, when they face that one thing they can't beat, in this case storm ( which is pretty crap since it takes like 850 850 to get and can get countered by spreading, ghosts) they start throwing nerfbat ideas. Spreading out ? You mean Terran in PvT needs to split his bio ball ? This may require Zerg-like APM ! On a more serious note great interview. I like that he points out some very good points about PvT and Banshees and they seem to have the issues relatively well defined and are working on the issues. As for TvZ it changed too much lately to know where it is at exactly so they are (quite reasonably in my opinion) waiting to see how it goes. | ||
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us.insurgency
United States330 Posts
On October 26 2010 11:59 Sixes wrote: Spreading out ? You mean Terran in PvT needs to split his bio ball ? This may require Zerg-like APM ! On a more serious note great interview. I like that he points out some very good points about PvT and Banshees and they seem to have the issues relatively well defined and are working on the issues. As for TvZ it changed too much lately to know where it is at exactly so they are (quite reasonably in my opinion) waiting to see how it goes. If I get cheaper HT`s and then nerfed banshees i will be happy in PvT. | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
So a few people here are getting mad at David Kim for his 'philosophy' on balancing the game with lower level players in mind, but those decisions probably came from Chris S, but David Kim is too classy to put any flak in the other two devs' direction. Honestly it's clear to me from this interview that David Kim cares about SC2 as a competitive game. | ||
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hitman133
United States1425 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On October 26 2010 13:47 hitman133 wrote: lol, we haven't seen any buff for P, now they wanna nerf the HTs, when HT require so many build and research + expensive gas price? Don't worry, i'm pretty sure we'll soon see that protoss will be nerfed so hard that all we can build are zealots with 40 hp. :/ Interesting thread, yet all we can really do is sit back and wait and see how things are going to shape out. | ||
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Ssoulle
United Kingdom149 Posts
They are also going to weaken Terran earlygame again by the sounds of it, making it easier for Zerg players to take more extras bases on the map problem free. | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
 . Compare that to the 9 Zergs and the 10 Terrans. Now they should also analyze the game and not just that stats and they will see that most of the Protoss players fall in the early/mid game section of the game. Something needs to be done about that. And about Colossus being OP for Terran. Colossus are so weak, you can kill them with proper micro with Vikings for Terrans. And I also like how he says how he gets feedback on Marauders and Void Rays from both servers but only patches the VRs. Of course this is coming from a Protoss player so I'm a bit bias towards the Protoss side | ||
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gozima
Canada602 Posts
It's obviously a sound business decision, but it doesn't really bode well for this games longevity as an E-Sport. | ||
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oRacLeGosu
Norway151 Posts
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
Find other ideas to make other terran units viable, not just infantry. The thor buff was definitely a step in the right direction. I didn't agree with the tank nerf, and I still don't. What the matchup lacks, more than balance, is diversity. At least Templar vs Ghost is fun. If it evolves into MMM vs Colossus, that would be a huge mistake for Blizzard. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On October 24 2010 21:52 unbal3 wrote: Q. Are there any plans to buff terran in the next patch? A. We are looking at PvT and High Templar's Psionic Storm. It's only been a week after patch, so we are still analyzing how it is affecting gameplay. Hello, its not the HTs that are causing problems, they are already underused compared to colossi. Nerf those maybe PvP will be playeble again. | ||
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