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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On October 14 2010 02:42 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 00:15 Waxangel wrote:On October 14 2010 00:12 supernovamaniac wrote:
If my pro-KeSPA speculations are true, then Gretech probably delayed the negotiations up until this point where they can basically 'pull out' of the negotiations in a favorable fashion without making fans think that Gretech wants to kill-off BW
I'm not saying that this is the case (my views are neutral in this case), but it is a probability. If we had to speculate about Gretech's motives, I think it's more plausible to say they want KeSPA and MBCGame to die, but not BW as a whole. They successfully negotiated with OGN for the OSL last season, which shows they don't mind BW tournaments. I'm curious as to what specific demands on either side caused the MBCGame and KeSPA negotiation failures, however. This reasoning is flawed, mate. To me it seems like they want to kill-off BW, while at the same time save their face - that's all there is to it. You know why? Because they know that without ProLeague BW progaming will die regardless of whether they let OGN broadcast OSL or not.
They may not have any animosity towards the game, but they certainly want to kill off the entire organization that makes BW happen, which is essentially going to kill BW.
It'd be like saying you have nothing against hockey, you just want to break the knees of Sidney Crosby and Alex Ovechkin, and then move all the Canadian teams down to South Florida.
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The only thing we can do is wait and see!?
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On October 14 2010 03:26 infinity2k9 wrote:
The court case will be interesting. I think the fact Blizzard unofficially authorized the scene for years and benefited from its publicity, only to coincidentally change their minds right near the SC2 announcement will be a major point in court.
That is a very good point.
If it goes KeSPA's way i wonder if SC2 would be opened up more in Korea so leagues could be run with only a license fee paid and not more control by Blizzard. That would be the best for eSports. They might decide its in the Korean publics best interest that a game can have a professional scene without the complete control of the developer.
Combining this thought with your previous one gives us a very plausible motive for Gretech/Blizzard to fight KeSPA! If they wouldn't interfere with BW they could hardly argue in court that they see themselves as the ones who should naturally have control over SC2 esports.
That thought should have occurred to them when they started planning for SC2, early enough to explain the whole conflict from the beginning.
Regarding the importance of that factor, the topic of IP has become central in a lot of areas during the last decade. It's very reasonable that a game company should think about how far their rights to their games go and stake their claim early. Especially if they are entering new ground like esports. Maybe in the future revenues from esports marketing could even surpass the initial sales revenues for games, so if a game company can secure a certain part of that money and influence, it would mean a lot to them. Thus, a court decision deciding whether they can control that market is highly significant to them. And Korea is the first country where that question will come up (or already did by now), so they might be fighting for a precedent here.
I seriously believe that this court case was what all parties had been concentrating on from the beginning. They knew they could postpone it for a while, but they also knew they would want to fight it eventually. So they probably all positioned themselves accordingly. That could also explain the rush with which GomTV is starting the SC2 leagues, where I guess Blizzard plays an important role. That way they show the court how much they are already invested in esports.
As for the future. Uncertainty as from an open court case is poison for businesses. So even if KeSPA can continue running the leagues, I think it will be much harder to get sponsors. I just hope they win the court battle in the name of free esports.
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this could become the biggest trial in eSport history and i dont know why, but I have the feeling that KeSPA would have the better chances if it goes to court.
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On October 14 2010 00:11 Kibibit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 00:02 _awake_ wrote:
Gretech are the bad guys here. Is anyone still not convinced they want to kill BW? I'm not. All I've seen so far is approximately three groups looking out solely for their own interests; Kespa has proven in the past they'd seriously harm brood war before they'd compromise on their interests; Gretech and Blizzard are no different. It always feels stupid to watch people try to paint heroes and villains when everyone is a villain trying to put on a heroic face. As someone who would much, MUCH rather have both scenes frolicking arm in arm through a meadow, it's all very much bullshit. : |
Well said Kibibit. They're all looking for their own interests but KeSPA shouldn't have just gone and done away with negotiations like that. This will be a very bad move for the BW scene.
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On October 14 2010 00:02 _awake_ wrote:
Gretech are the bad guys here. Is anyone still not convinced they want to kill BW?
I think that Gretech is just following the wishes of Blizzard. I'm not 100% sure if Blizzard is trying to kill off BW or not, but the fact that they gave exclusive rights to Gretech, and during the same times of the MSL and OSL finals, Blizzard had mini invitational SC2 show matches to compete with them could be just weird coincidences or not O_O
I think that you can compare Blizzard to Iccup.Messer, a guy who is ruining the iccup server, and his subordinates are just following his terrible leadership.
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I have to side with Kespa. They are what make the leagues run, and i want to watch more sc1
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Kespa, Gretech and Blizzard may all be "villains hiding under sheep's clothing". But what do I care? The only thing that matters here is that Kespa still has the interests of the BW fans, to CONTINUE Proleague.
But.... they are being IDIOTS in negotiating. Gretech is (to me) the real villain here. I know there is a long history behind this, that the negotiations are much more complex than that. BUT WHAT DO I CARE? Stop posting that Gretech is not as evil as we think; we like to think that way if Gretech is really trying to smother the BW scene.
Just stop posting such idiocy please. And besides, Blizzard has Bobby Kotick plastered all over it. That disgusts me enough already.
[EXPECTS A TEMP BAN FOR THIS]
/endrant
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 14 2010 03:50 r3z3nd3 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 03:21 ffreakk wrote:
Many people are "boycotting" BW not so much cos of hating on Gretech/Blizz but more so because it (pardon me) outright sucks, in my (our) opinion.. I enjoy myself way more watching/playing DotA or Civilization recently. I believe that are people who think that BW sucks. But they aren't "many", like you say. There are "many" who think it's a very enjoyable e-sports, and these are the people who enjoyed it for 10 years and are very worried with this situation.
Edit: Oh fk, its a typo, i meant to say SC2, not BW :p (deleted a paragraph where i tried to fire back at you xD)
Personally i feel that WC3 was a better game than SC2 with so much more innovations and breakthroughs.. We all know how WC3 turned out.. We will see how much longer SC2 can live off Brood War's hype.. There will come a time where it has to stand on its own two feet. And when that time comes, i dont think that it will stand for long.
On topic, the recent happenings in the BW scene looks terrible T_T .. I just hope it doesnt affect the scene too much. New players will (hopefully) come along, and whatever else that will follows after another successful season of Pro-League. It will be really sweet if by the time SC2 crumbles to dust, BW is still around :p
Edit: guy above, the surest way to get banned is saying that you expect it, man ...
User was warned for this post
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On October 14 2010 03:01 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 02:59 Hinanawi wrote:
Seems like the best solution would be for Gretech to be reasonable and let them broadcast Proleague, but also for MBC and Kespa to be reasonable, and broadcast it in time slots so that it doesn't conflict with GSL 2. I think the best solution is for kespa to operate similar to how they have been operating and not let gretech try to slowly kill off bw by pushing it off of time slots and feeding off the scene that bw built up.
You mean like the time Kespa killed off the GOM Starleague when GOM tried to expand the BW scene to foreigners with English casting? Yeah, Kespa were really doing e-sports a great service back then, weren't they? But now Gretech should bend over and let Kespa do whatever they wish, and forget about how much they were shat on before?
Face it, this is partially karma for Kespa.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but trying to pretend Kespa isn't at least partially getting their just desserts is silly. I would like for both BW and SC2 to continue, and neither side is innocent in this debate.
Wouldn't YOU be pissed at Kespa if you were Gretech considering their past history, and doubt Kespa's honesty?
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I don't really know the whole story, but why is it so difficult to come to an understanding for something that is so popular and long running?
I'm praying for more BW competitions though. Very excited at the idea.
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This is KeSPA's chance to finally stand up for the players. Don't let us down.
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On October 14 2010 05:34 Hinanawi wrote:
You mean like the time Kespa killed off the GOM Starleague when GOM tried to expand the BW scene to foreigners with English casting? Yeah, Kespa were really doing e-sports a great service back then, weren't they? But now Gretech should bend over and let Kespa do whatever they wish, and forget about how much they were shat on before?
Face it, this is partially karma for Kespa.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but trying to pretend Kespa isn't at least partially getting their just desserts is silly. I would like for both BW and SC2 to continue, and neither side is innocent in this debate.
Wouldn't YOU be pissed at Kespa if you were Gretech considering their past history, and doubt Kespa's honesty?
Even if this is true (and I guess it is, mostly) what does it change? GOM is trying to marginalize BW because it competes with their product, and possibly because they were asked to by Blizzard in order to promote the SC2 franchise. As a BW fan it doesn't matter to me that GOM has legitimate reasons to try to hurt KeSPA. If they succeed BW will suffer, so I want them to fail.
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On October 14 2010 00:02 _awake_ wrote:
Gretech are the bad guys here. Is anyone still not convinced they want to kill BW?
No, KeSPA are definitely the bad guys. They've been screwing up the proscene basically since SKT took over
On October 14 2010 03:26 infinity2k9 wrote:
The court case will be interesting. I think the fact Blizzard unofficially authorized the scene for years and benefited from its publicity, only to coincidentally change their minds right near the SC2 announcement will be a major point in court.
Eh? Blizzard has been trying to get kespa to stop acting like asshats ever since they tried to charge money to attend tournaments years and years ago. This is not by any means a recent event.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On October 14 2010 03:26 infinity2k9 wrote:
The court case will be interesting. I think the fact Blizzard unofficially authorized the scene for years and benefited from its publicity, only to coincidentally change their minds right near the SC2 announcement will be a major point in court.
spoken like a true fanboy who has no clue whats been going on
blizzard never authorized anything, infact they've been trying for years to make kespa respect their IP rights and pay them some licensing fees
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
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No matter right or wrong, what I saw was Kespa getting an upper hand on this. They would never make such move without confidence to win a law suit, and with the government on its back, seems they do.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On October 14 2010 05:55 Tien wrote:
Nobody wins.
2 gladiators in the colloseum
they don't want to fight to the death but circumstances have led to the fact that they must
blizzard will win, but not without wounds
though in the end, they will have the glory
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I wanna say that Gretech is the villain here, but KeSPA did some bad stuff too, considering the whole IP rights issues (this really kicked them in the rear >.<). Though, I have to say that if Proleague/MSL/OSL are all canceled for this, I will be pretty upset. =\
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On October 14 2010 00:11 Kibibit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 00:02 _awake_ wrote:
Gretech are the bad guys here. Is anyone still not convinced they want to kill BW? I'm not. All I've seen so far is approximately three groups looking out solely for their own interests; Kespa has proven in the past they'd seriously harm brood war before they'd compromise on their interests; Gretech and Blizzard are no different. It always feels stupid to watch people try to paint heroes and villains when everyone is a villain trying to put on a heroic face. As someone who would much, MUCH rather have both scenes frolicking arm in arm through a meadow, it's all very much bullshit. : |
Well said. No one is in the right here. It is all a varying shade of gray.
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EPT
