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2008 US Presidential Election - Page 94

Forum Index > Closed
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TeCh)PsylO
Profile Joined October 2002
United States3552 Posts
October 03 2008 02:35 GMT
#1861
On a completely side note, I am sitting in a hospital room watching this, and the only available news station is FOX...uhggg
People change, then forget to tell each other - Susan Scott
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
October 03 2008 02:37 GMT
#1862
On October 03 2008 11:13 BalliSLife wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2008 11:10 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:08 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:05 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:02 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 10:47 Savio wrote:
The difference between McCain and Obama on the war in Iraq is that Obama is committed to withdraw all combat troops within 16 months regardless of conditions on the ground. McCain is committed to withdrawing the troops once the country is stable enough.


You actually believe it will be stable enough eventually? They are just gonna keep being replaced by more and more extremists the longer you stay.


Its changed so much in the last few months that I do have hope for the future.


Changed in a good way? or because the media says it was getting better? because in the last couple of weeks I still see american soldiers dying to attacks.



The media doesn't determine how many soldiers die or how many attacks are carried out by terrorist or what the civilian death toll is. This isn't the media.


Right, then it's people like mccain that determines who freakin dies right? because media is used to persuade the general public into voting for someone like bush and mc cain, by telling people it's alright, we're winning when its completely obvious this is a losing war.


The change in deaths coincided with the surge and the change in strategy imposed by General Petraeus. So yes, policy makers and generals DO affect the number of deaths because they can contribute to success or failure.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
October 03 2008 02:38 GMT
#1863
On October 03 2008 11:32 Savio wrote:
She had a better closing statement.


really?

I thought her closing statements was one her worst answers
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17038 Posts
October 03 2008 02:40 GMT
#1864
On October 03 2008 11:38 fusionsdf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2008 11:32 Savio wrote:
She had a better closing statement.


really?

I thought her closing statements was one her worst answers


Honestly the answer she gave right before her actual closing statement sounded like a closing statement.
Moderator
BalliSLife
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
1339 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-03 02:43:39
October 03 2008 02:41 GMT
#1865
On October 03 2008 11:37 Savio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2008 11:13 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:10 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:08 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:05 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:02 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 10:47 Savio wrote:
The difference between McCain and Obama on the war in Iraq is that Obama is committed to withdraw all combat troops within 16 months regardless of conditions on the ground. McCain is committed to withdrawing the troops once the country is stable enough.


You actually believe it will be stable enough eventually? They are just gonna keep being replaced by more and more extremists the longer you stay.


Its changed so much in the last few months that I do have hope for the future.


Changed in a good way? or because the media says it was getting better? because in the last couple of weeks I still see american soldiers dying to attacks.



The media doesn't determine how many soldiers die or how many attacks are carried out by terrorist or what the civilian death toll is. This isn't the media.


Right, then it's people like mccain that determines who freakin dies right? because media is used to persuade the general public into voting for someone like bush and mc cain, by telling people it's alright, we're winning when its completely obvious this is a losing war.


The change in deaths coincided with the surge and the change in strategy imposed by General Petraeus. So yes, policy makers and generals DO affect the number of deaths because they can contribute to success or failure.


Yet you support the very same people who send troops to die, goodjob. Can't wait to see what you have to say about my post on gay marriage tomorrow
Ya well, at least I don't fuck a fleshlight with a condom on and cry at the same time.
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
October 03 2008 02:42 GMT
#1866
On October 03 2008 11:38 fusionsdf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2008 11:32 Savio wrote:
She had a better closing statement.


really?

I thought her closing statements was one her worst answers



That wasn't my impression. When she was talking about how McCain is the only man on either ticket who had actually ever fought for the American people, I thought that connected well and fulfilled a VP's role in a debate.

Biden's closing statement was not as good as his lines during the debate.


Overall Verdict:

1. Unlike the McCain/Obama debate which I thought was a draw, I think that Biden did a better job overall. They both had high points but he was consistent.

2. She did better here than during her press interviews. That alone will help the ticket. Since no disaster occured the real meat of the campaign can start.

I'm out for the night. Laters!
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
OGzan
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States289 Posts
October 03 2008 02:54 GMT
#1867
Theres just something about Palin that i absolutely cant stand at all. The way she acts it just bothers me... she just reminds me too much of a terrible school teacher. Anyways from what i had seen Biden was more consistent unlike Palin
(Zan) :: http://www.twitch.tv/byzantiumsc :: Terran Player currently teamless ::
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
October 03 2008 02:58 GMT
#1868
On October 03 2008 09:54 Savio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2008 04:55 KlaCkoN wrote:
Hm Savio I am curious about one thing, do you actually believe that the US ecconomy will do better under Mccain? or do you support him for other reasons, like above mentioned abortion debate.


You guys might not like this, but in my opinion, the economy is pretty dang independent of politics. The economy of the US is a behemoth and the government is a small part of it. Its true that economic growth can be stimulated by tax cuts (the GOP talking points), but it is ALSO true that it is stimulated by increased government spending (democrats talking points). I don't believe that the differences between the two are very significant.

Now, as far as things like this bailout (stabilizing some large institutions) I don't know much about that, that falls more under finance than economics.

I don't think that Presidents have profound effects on the economy. However, McCain does favor lower taxes on businesses and that seems like it would better allow our companies to compete in the world market.

McCain also favors limiting the scope of government involvement in the economy. I support that.

But MOST OF ALL, as far as economic reasons that I support McCain, is that more than any other politician in Washington, he has fought and continues to fight wasteful government spending.

I am disappointed with both President Bush and the Republican Congress for completely abandoning all pretenses to fiscal restraint and behaving like a bunch of democrats. It used to be that the GOP was all about fiscal responsibility and restraining government, but in the last 8 years, it seems that they just became another democratic party of big spenders.

McCain has been fighting this and refused pork spending his entire career. He has also committed (and only he has the clout to say this) to vetoing every bill that contains pork regardless of whether it was for democrats or republicans.

But I support McCain for many other reasons besides economic reasons. I do always vote pro-life, I own several guns and I don't want guns and ammo taxes increased 500% as Obama supports (this is true as verified by factcheck.org), and I do trust McCain's experience, knowledge and judgement more than Obama's on military and foreign affairs.

So there you have it.

You say that politics is independent of economics (which is flatly untrue) but then you go on to say you support McCain on economics because of his push to cut pork barrel spending. Honestly, read some of the stuff you're saying. You're like a nicer version of Sean Hannity.

Pork barrel spending accounts for an insignificant amount of our deficit. Tax cuts and military expenditures account for over 80% of our deficit, and are truly what have caused this massive national debt. Not Medicare, not education, not science (lol), not social security.
http://www.cbpp.org/9-12-08bud.htm
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
October 03 2008 03:00 GMT
#1869
On October 03 2008 09:59 Savio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2008 05:07 Jibba wrote:
On October 03 2008 05:04 KlaCkoN wrote:
But unless I have missunderstood something both candidates are for abortion, gay marriage are beeing decided on the states level (didnt cali allow it recently?, and no president in the US would ever move for more gun control?
:S

Ah, but my friend, you are using logic! Savio supposes that Presidents have the ability to appoint judges, thus they should appoint judges based on their own political agenda, even though judges only decide on constitutionality, not legislative worthiness. He fails to understand that appointing a judge for said reason only means you are tampering with the checks and balances of government and you're setting yourself up for a let down when a winning opponent chooses the same tactic.


Right now, there are 5 justices that feel they can "interpret" the constitution and that it is a living document. 4 are more originalist. John Paul Stevens is a liberal justice who is 88 years old. You cannot say that this is not important.

Appointing the next justice will almost surely be the most important thing the president does. And it is permanent!

Tax policy can always just be undone by the next president.

YOU SELECT JUDGES BASED ON JUDICIAL LEANING, NOT SOCIAL LEANING.
YOU SELECT JUDGES BASED ON JUDICIAL LEANING, NOT SOCIAL LEANING.
YOU SELECT JUDGES BASED ON JUDICIAL LEANING, NOT SOCIAL LEANING.
YOU SELECT JUDGES BASED ON JUDICIAL LEANING, NOT SOCIAL LEANING.
YOU SELECT JUDGES BASED ON JUDICIAL LEANING, NOT SOCIAL LEANING.
YOU SELECT JUDGES BASED ON JUDICIAL LEANING, NOT SOCIAL LEANING.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
wswordsmen
Profile Joined October 2007
United States987 Posts
October 03 2008 03:06 GMT
#1870
On October 03 2008 11:58 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2008 09:54 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 04:55 KlaCkoN wrote:
Hm Savio I am curious about one thing, do you actually believe that the US ecconomy will do better under Mccain? or do you support him for other reasons, like above mentioned abortion debate.


You guys might not like this, but in my opinion, the economy is pretty dang independent of politics. The economy of the US is a behemoth and the government is a small part of it. Its true that economic growth can be stimulated by tax cuts (the GOP talking points), but it is ALSO true that it is stimulated by increased government spending (democrats talking points). I don't believe that the differences between the two are very significant.

Now, as far as things like this bailout (stabilizing some large institutions) I don't know much about that, that falls more under finance than economics.

I don't think that Presidents have profound effects on the economy. However, McCain does favor lower taxes on businesses and that seems like it would better allow our companies to compete in the world market.

McCain also favors limiting the scope of government involvement in the economy. I support that.

But MOST OF ALL, as far as economic reasons that I support McCain, is that more than any other politician in Washington, he has fought and continues to fight wasteful government spending.

I am disappointed with both President Bush and the Republican Congress for completely abandoning all pretenses to fiscal restraint and behaving like a bunch of democrats. It used to be that the GOP was all about fiscal responsibility and restraining government, but in the last 8 years, it seems that they just became another democratic party of big spenders.

McCain has been fighting this and refused pork spending his entire career. He has also committed (and only he has the clout to say this) to vetoing every bill that contains pork regardless of whether it was for democrats or republicans.

But I support McCain for many other reasons besides economic reasons. I do always vote pro-life, I own several guns and I don't want guns and ammo taxes increased 500% as Obama supports (this is true as verified by factcheck.org), and I do trust McCain's experience, knowledge and judgement more than Obama's on military and foreign affairs.

So there you have it.

You say that politics is independent of economics (which is flatly untrue) but then you go on to say you support McCain on economics because of his push to cut pork barrel spending. Honestly, read some of the stuff you're saying. You're like a nicer version of Sean Hannity.

Pork barrel spending accounts for an insignificant amount of our deficit. Tax cuts and military expenditures account for over 80% of our deficit, and are truly what have caused this massive national debt. Not Medicare, not education, not science (lol), not social security.
http://www.cbpp.org/9-12-08bud.htm

Debt=/= Deficit

The $20 you have in your wallet adds to the debt, it doesn't add to the deficit, I don't know much about it but it does look like you confused the 2. That said you are right pork is small relative to other factors in the deficit.
GeneralStan
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States4789 Posts
October 03 2008 03:06 GMT
#1871
The most notable Palin statement was where she mentioned that "Crazy dictators hate our freedom, our equal rights, our women's rights" (paraphrased until I get a transcript).

Its a ridiculous combination of deception and naivety. Either she really thinks that dictators really do hate our freedom and that is what compels them to act the way they do, revealing a childish grasp of foreign affairs, or she realizes that what is coming out of her mouth is bullshit, which is worse because it means she has no intention of honestly engaging the American public about foreign affairs, and we've seen how that's worked out in the last 8 years (especially since in addition to appropriating the ridiculous populous language of Bush, she is an ardent supporter of his doctrine, which isn't the way to get back into the world's good graces)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
October 03 2008 03:07 GMT
#1872
On October 03 2008 11:37 Savio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2008 11:13 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:10 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:08 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:05 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:02 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 10:47 Savio wrote:
The difference between McCain and Obama on the war in Iraq is that Obama is committed to withdraw all combat troops within 16 months regardless of conditions on the ground. McCain is committed to withdrawing the troops once the country is stable enough.


You actually believe it will be stable enough eventually? They are just gonna keep being replaced by more and more extremists the longer you stay.


Its changed so much in the last few months that I do have hope for the future.


Changed in a good way? or because the media says it was getting better? because in the last couple of weeks I still see american soldiers dying to attacks.



The media doesn't determine how many soldiers die or how many attacks are carried out by terrorist or what the civilian death toll is. This isn't the media.


Right, then it's people like mccain that determines who freakin dies right? because media is used to persuade the general public into voting for someone like bush and mc cain, by telling people it's alright, we're winning when its completely obvious this is a losing war.


The change in deaths coincided with the surge and the change in strategy imposed by General Petraeus. So yes, policy makers and generals DO affect the number of deaths because they can contribute to success or failure.
No, it coincided with the Sunni leaders. McCain even said that. The Anbar Awakening started well before the surge was implemented.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-03 03:09:46
October 03 2008 03:09 GMT
#1873
On October 03 2008 12:06 wswordsmen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2008 11:58 Jibba wrote:
On October 03 2008 09:54 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 04:55 KlaCkoN wrote:
Hm Savio I am curious about one thing, do you actually believe that the US ecconomy will do better under Mccain? or do you support him for other reasons, like above mentioned abortion debate.


You guys might not like this, but in my opinion, the economy is pretty dang independent of politics. The economy of the US is a behemoth and the government is a small part of it. Its true that economic growth can be stimulated by tax cuts (the GOP talking points), but it is ALSO true that it is stimulated by increased government spending (democrats talking points). I don't believe that the differences between the two are very significant.

Now, as far as things like this bailout (stabilizing some large institutions) I don't know much about that, that falls more under finance than economics.

I don't think that Presidents have profound effects on the economy. However, McCain does favor lower taxes on businesses and that seems like it would better allow our companies to compete in the world market.

McCain also favors limiting the scope of government involvement in the economy. I support that.

But MOST OF ALL, as far as economic reasons that I support McCain, is that more than any other politician in Washington, he has fought and continues to fight wasteful government spending.

I am disappointed with both President Bush and the Republican Congress for completely abandoning all pretenses to fiscal restraint and behaving like a bunch of democrats. It used to be that the GOP was all about fiscal responsibility and restraining government, but in the last 8 years, it seems that they just became another democratic party of big spenders.

McCain has been fighting this and refused pork spending his entire career. He has also committed (and only he has the clout to say this) to vetoing every bill that contains pork regardless of whether it was for democrats or republicans.

But I support McCain for many other reasons besides economic reasons. I do always vote pro-life, I own several guns and I don't want guns and ammo taxes increased 500% as Obama supports (this is true as verified by factcheck.org), and I do trust McCain's experience, knowledge and judgement more than Obama's on military and foreign affairs.

So there you have it.

You say that politics is independent of economics (which is flatly untrue) but then you go on to say you support McCain on economics because of his push to cut pork barrel spending. Honestly, read some of the stuff you're saying. You're like a nicer version of Sean Hannity.

Pork barrel spending accounts for an insignificant amount of our deficit. Tax cuts and military expenditures account for over 80% of our deficit, and are truly what have caused this massive national debt. Not Medicare, not education, not science (lol), not social security.
http://www.cbpp.org/9-12-08bud.htm

Debt=/= Deficit

The $20 you have in your wallet adds to the debt, it doesn't add to the deficit, I don't know much about it but it does look like you confused the 2. That said you are right pork is small relative to other factors in the deficit.

Read the study. They're accounting for 82% of our current deficit and they have accounted for over 80% of our debt over the past 7 years.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
ScarFace
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1175 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-03 03:16:51
October 03 2008 03:16 GMT
#1874
On October 03 2008 12:06 GeneralStan wrote:
The most notable Palin statement was where she mentioned that "Crazy dictators hate our freedom, our equal rights, our women's rights" (paraphrased until I get a transcript).

Its a ridiculous combination of deception and naivety. Either she really thinks that dictators really do hate our freedom and that is what compels them to act the way they do, revealing a childish grasp of foreign affairs, or she realizes that what is coming out of her mouth is bullshit, which is worse because it means she has no intention of honestly engaging the American public about foreign affairs, and we've seen how that's worked out in the last 8 years (especially since in addition to appropriating the ridiculous populous language of Bush, she is an ardent supporter of his doctrine, which isn't the way to get back into the world's good graces)
You are right of course, Muslim extremists who repeatedly state that Women should not be treated as equals, but subject to male domination, that freedom of speech and slander against Allah should be punishable by death, that democracy is sacrilegious, that they find the entire Western political and social structure abhorrent and an affront to Allah, do not really hate our freedom. It's an elaborate facade you see.

Idiot.
Can you dig it?
useLess
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4781 Posts
October 03 2008 03:20 GMT
#1875
On October 03 2008 11:37 Savio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2008 11:13 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:10 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:08 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:05 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:02 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 10:47 Savio wrote:
The difference between McCain and Obama on the war in Iraq is that Obama is committed to withdraw all combat troops within 16 months regardless of conditions on the ground. McCain is committed to withdrawing the troops once the country is stable enough.


You actually believe it will be stable enough eventually? They are just gonna keep being replaced by more and more extremists the longer you stay.


Its changed so much in the last few months that I do have hope for the future.


Changed in a good way? or because the media says it was getting better? because in the last couple of weeks I still see american soldiers dying to attacks.



The media doesn't determine how many soldiers die or how many attacks are carried out by terrorist or what the civilian death toll is. This isn't the media.


Right, then it's people like mccain that determines who freakin dies right? because media is used to persuade the general public into voting for someone like bush and mc cain, by telling people it's alright, we're winning when its completely obvious this is a losing war.


The change in deaths coincided with the surge and the change in strategy imposed by General Petraeus. So yes, policy makers and generals DO affect the number of deaths because they can contribute to success or failure.


well, just to inject a different point of view:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Satellite_images_show_ethnic_cleansing_source_0919.html

summary: the US surge wasnt necessarily or completely responsible for the reduce in Iraq violence
Moonlight Shadow
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
October 03 2008 03:20 GMT
#1876
Where have they said that? Because of your interpretation based on shit stations like CNN and Fox News? There's one country that does a lot of the worst things and is one of the most oppressive regimes in the world, but it's not Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon. It's not a country either candidate will push against or attack any time soon.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
ScarFace
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1175 Posts
October 03 2008 03:44 GMT
#1877
On October 03 2008 12:20 useLess wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 03 2008 11:37 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:13 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:10 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:08 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:05 Savio wrote:
On October 03 2008 11:02 BalliSLife wrote:
On October 03 2008 10:47 Savio wrote:
The difference between McCain and Obama on the war in Iraq is that Obama is committed to withdraw all combat troops within 16 months regardless of conditions on the ground. McCain is committed to withdrawing the troops once the country is stable enough.


You actually believe it will be stable enough eventually? They are just gonna keep being replaced by more and more extremists the longer you stay.


Its changed so much in the last few months that I do have hope for the future.


Changed in a good way? or because the media says it was getting better? because in the last couple of weeks I still see american soldiers dying to attacks.



The media doesn't determine how many soldiers die or how many attacks are carried out by terrorist or what the civilian death toll is. This isn't the media.


Right, then it's people like mccain that determines who freakin dies right? because media is used to persuade the general public into voting for someone like bush and mc cain, by telling people it's alright, we're winning when its completely obvious this is a losing war.


The change in deaths coincided with the surge and the change in strategy imposed by General Petraeus. So yes, policy makers and generals DO affect the number of deaths because they can contribute to success or failure.


well, just to inject a different point of view:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Satellite_images_show_ethnic_cleansing_source_0919.html

summary: the US surge wasnt necessarily or completely responsible for the reduce in Iraq violence
Are you really that god damn stupid? You are relying on a fucking satellite picture to somehow prove that there has been ethnic cleansing? Which just so happened to magically, luckily, coincide with the surge? Holy fucking shit, some liberals will find any theory eh?
Can you dig it?
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
October 03 2008 04:09 GMT
#1878
It will be so refreshing to see Obama in the white house.

I urge you republicans, vote with your brains, not with your hearts.
" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
Flaccid
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
8865 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-03 04:20:21
October 03 2008 04:18 GMT
#1879
Jesus. Palin just recited talking points for the last 90 minutes and I learned absolutely nothing.

Thanks for nothing, thundercunt.

SHE NEVER SAYS ANYTHING OF SUBSTANCE!!! Are people this fucking dumb? Are these the answers they want? Do they not question anything?

I DONT FUCKING GET IT.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 03 2008 04:24 GMT
#1880
[image loading]
RIP Aaliyah
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