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Heller vs. DC Decision - Page 9

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FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
June 28 2008 02:13 GMT
#161
On June 28 2008 10:46 TrainRape wrote:
I wish we could all just put aside the violence of guns and crime, it is simple enough to protect oneself.

Show nested quote +
On June 27 2008 11:39 TrainRape wrote:
I believe guns are unnecessary. I’ve lived in the District for over 5 years and have successfully defended my home from armed intruders with a Samurai sword on two separate occasions. Throwing stars and nun-chucks are also very effective against guns. If you practice two to three hours a day and are fearless, you will not fail.



you're either a funny guy or really really really really really really dumb
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
June 28 2008 02:34 GMT
#162
On June 28 2008 11:13 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2008 10:46 TrainRape wrote:
I wish we could all just put aside the violence of guns and crime, it is simple enough to protect oneself.

On June 27 2008 11:39 TrainRape wrote:
I believe guns are unnecessary. I’ve lived in the District for over 5 years and have successfully defended my home from armed intruders with a Samurai sword on two separate occasions. Throwing stars and nun-chucks are also very effective against guns. If you practice two to three hours a day and are fearless, you will not fail.



you're either a funny guy or really really really really really really dumb



rofl even if he is really really really really really really dumb, he made me laugh aloud

"you will not fail"

huge!!
Resistance ain't futile
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
June 28 2008 02:40 GMT
#163
On June 28 2008 11:13 Haemonculus wrote:
-The woman's boyfriend shoots her 6 times in the back while she is asleep. (He later claims it was self defense)


LOL Self defense while she was sleeping.

What... were her snores so loud you were going to kill yourself?
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
rpf
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States2705 Posts
June 28 2008 02:46 GMT
#164
On June 28 2008 07:46 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2008 01:10 rpf wrote:

On June 27 2008 22:24 Jibba wrote:
On June 27 2008 17:10 rpf wrote:
On June 27 2008 14:06 Jibba wrote:
Not to mention the issue of gun shows, and not the totally awesome kind.

What issue? I see you've fallen victim to rumors spread intentionally by the Brady Campaign. There is no "gun show issue."

Moron. Dense moron. It was a reason to post the Todd. And private sales do occur at gun shows, classified, etc. They are a problem.

Wrong. Oh, how I love ignorance.

Private sales are LEGAL.

/palmface

Alright, you really are a stupid mother fucker. I've been pretty courteous up to this point, but every time I make a post your ridiculously paranoid brain decides to remove itself from all bases of logic and reply with some inane piece of drivel that has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

Everything you post is idiotic, and even if I agreed with your stance on guns, I would think that you are a fool. If I loved guns as much as you do, I would still try to disassociate myself from you in real life. I'm dead serious. Rpf, you are not an intelligent person.

Can I make that any clearer? From the bottom of my heart, I believe that.

My post contained absolutely nothing about the current legality of private gun sales. My post concerned the fact that they exist, and makes the implication that they should not exist. If you don't think the private transfer of a weapon should be closely regulated, then you are an even bigger moron and nuisance than I and everyone else on TL.net pegged you for.

Translation: Face-to-face sales between law-abiding citizens should not be legal because I said so. Also, rpf is not intelligent because he does not agree with every little thing I say. WAHHH WAHH BAHH BAHHH

Oh, and the ATF heavily regulates private sales, trades, etc.

Again, keep spewing your ignorance so I can put you in your place. I like to be insulted--it lets me know I'm winning.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
rpf
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States2705 Posts
June 28 2008 02:48 GMT
#165
On June 28 2008 08:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2008 07:46 Jibba wrote:
On June 28 2008 01:10 rpf wrote:

On June 27 2008 22:24 Jibba wrote:
On June 27 2008 17:10 rpf wrote:
On June 27 2008 14:06 Jibba wrote:
Not to mention the issue of gun shows, and not the totally awesome kind.

What issue? I see you've fallen victim to rumors spread intentionally by the Brady Campaign. There is no "gun show issue."

Moron. Dense moron. It was a reason to post the Todd. And private sales do occur at gun shows, classified, etc. They are a problem.

Wrong. Oh, how I love ignorance.

Private sales are LEGAL.

/palmface

Alright, you really are a stupid mother fucker. I've been pretty courteous up to this point, but every time I make a post your ridiculously paranoid brain decides to remove itself from all bases of logic and reply with some inane piece of drivel that has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

Everything you post is idiotic, and even if I agreed with your stance on guns, I would think that you are a fool. If I loved guns as much as you do, I would still try to disassociate myself from you in real life. I'm dead serious. Rpf, you are not an intelligent person.

Can I make that any clearer? From the bottom of my heart, I believe that.

My post contained absolutely nothing about the current legality of private gun sales. My post concerned the fact that they exist, and makes the implication that they should not exist. If you don't think the private transfer of a weapon should be closely regulated, then you are an even bigger moron and nuisance than I and everyone else on TL.net pegged you for.


raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaped

Not really--he didn't make any points.

1. He doesn't like private sales and thinks they should be banned; no reason given
2. He thinks I'm unintelligent; no real reasons given
3. He thinks I'm a moron and a nuisance because I don't agree with his opinion

Sounds to me like he's just another typical gun-grabbing liberal who can't take it when someone doesn't agree with them. Then, they start throwing around insults, and start crying about it.

OH NOES WATEVER WILL ID O JIBBA THINKS IM A MORON O FUCK I NEED THERAPY NOW.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
yubee
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States3826 Posts
June 28 2008 02:52 GMT
#166
On June 28 2008 11:48 rpf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2008 08:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
On June 28 2008 07:46 Jibba wrote:
On June 28 2008 01:10 rpf wrote:

On June 27 2008 22:24 Jibba wrote:
On June 27 2008 17:10 rpf wrote:
On June 27 2008 14:06 Jibba wrote:
Not to mention the issue of gun shows, and not the totally awesome kind.

What issue? I see you've fallen victim to rumors spread intentionally by the Brady Campaign. There is no "gun show issue."

Moron. Dense moron. It was a reason to post the Todd. And private sales do occur at gun shows, classified, etc. They are a problem.

Wrong. Oh, how I love ignorance.

Private sales are LEGAL.

/palmface

Alright, you really are a stupid mother fucker. I've been pretty courteous up to this point, but every time I make a post your ridiculously paranoid brain decides to remove itself from all bases of logic and reply with some inane piece of drivel that has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

Everything you post is idiotic, and even if I agreed with your stance on guns, I would think that you are a fool. If I loved guns as much as you do, I would still try to disassociate myself from you in real life. I'm dead serious. Rpf, you are not an intelligent person.

Can I make that any clearer? From the bottom of my heart, I believe that.

My post contained absolutely nothing about the current legality of private gun sales. My post concerned the fact that they exist, and makes the implication that they should not exist. If you don't think the private transfer of a weapon should be closely regulated, then you are an even bigger moron and nuisance than I and everyone else on TL.net pegged you for.


raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaped

Not really--he didn't make any points.

1. He doesn't like private sales and thinks they should be banned; no reason given
2. He thinks I'm unintelligent; no real reasons given
3. He thinks I'm a moron and a nuisance because I don't agree with his opinion

Sounds to me like he's just another typical gun-grabbing liberal who can't take it when someone doesn't agree with them. Then, they start throwing around insults, and start crying about it.

OH NOES WATEVER WILL ID O JIBBA THINKS IM A MORON O FUCK I NEED THERAPY NOW.
rpf you ARE a moron, and anyone who disagrees with you is suddenly a gun-grabbing liberal who watches Fox News LOL hahahaha
rpf
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States2705 Posts
June 28 2008 02:55 GMT
#167
Well, shit, I can't argue with yubee, now can I?
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Funchucks
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada2113 Posts
June 28 2008 03:21 GMT
#168
On June 28 2008 10:37 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2008 09:55 Funchucks wrote:
Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people. Guns just look cool and sound cool, and make you look cool when you hold one.

I have a dream. A dream that one day, children will be able to point at each other with awesome, real guns, in total safety, their parents relaxed in the knowledge that ammunition could not possibly be available.

Support ammunition control legislation, and my proposed "Bullets for Guns" trade-in program.

Together we can put an end to bullet violence!

Haha cute perhaps, but if we interpret this at face value (for some reason I can't even think of) then the bolded statement is misleading since guns are generally necessary for bullets to kill people. Neither plays a more important role than the other, and a gun can still kill someone even unloaded... good luck doing that with a bullet :p

Push cartridge into nostril, tap primer with centerpunch.
I serve my houseguests slices of butter.
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
June 28 2008 03:49 GMT
#169
On June 28 2008 11:55 rpf wrote:
Well, shit, I can't argue with yubee, now can I?


No, you can't. Give up plz
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
rpf
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States2705 Posts
June 28 2008 03:57 GMT
#170
No.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-28 04:08:52
June 28 2008 04:07 GMT
#171
On June 28 2008 11:46 rpf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2008 07:46 Jibba wrote:
On June 28 2008 01:10 rpf wrote:

On June 27 2008 22:24 Jibba wrote:
On June 27 2008 17:10 rpf wrote:
On June 27 2008 14:06 Jibba wrote:
Not to mention the issue of gun shows, and not the totally awesome kind.

What issue? I see you've fallen victim to rumors spread intentionally by the Brady Campaign. There is no "gun show issue."

Moron. Dense moron. It was a reason to post the Todd. And private sales do occur at gun shows, classified, etc. They are a problem.

Wrong. Oh, how I love ignorance.

Private sales are LEGAL.

/palmface

Alright, you really are a stupid mother fucker. I've been pretty courteous up to this point, but every time I make a post your ridiculously paranoid brain decides to remove itself from all bases of logic and reply with some inane piece of drivel that has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

Everything you post is idiotic, and even if I agreed with your stance on guns, I would think that you are a fool. If I loved guns as much as you do, I would still try to disassociate myself from you in real life. I'm dead serious. Rpf, you are not an intelligent person.

Can I make that any clearer? From the bottom of my heart, I believe that.

My post contained absolutely nothing about the current legality of private gun sales. My post concerned the fact that they exist, and makes the implication that they should not exist. If you don't think the private transfer of a weapon should be closely regulated, then you are an even bigger moron and nuisance than I and everyone else on TL.net pegged you for.


Oh, and the ATF heavily regulates private sales, trades, etc.

Wrong.

Gun show regulation is happening at the state level, not the federal level. California has stringent gun show restrictions, but many states do not and second hand sales to criminals is a big issue, according to an ATF report (not linked.)
+ Show Spoiler +

Gun Show Regulations Work, Study Finds

By Andrea Thompson, LiveScience Staff Writer

posted: 11 June 2007 08:05 pm ET
Previous Image Next Image

The actual purchaser indicates the gun he wants-an AK47-type rifle with 2 extra magazines, while the straw purchaser looks on. Credit: Garen Wintemute/UC Davis
The straw purchaser pays for the gun, and afterward, the intended possessor helps the clerk package the gun. (During this process the intended possessor became concerned that they were being observed. Shortly after the last photograph was taken, the gun was transferred to the straw purchaser to carry.) Credit: Garen Wintemute/UC Davis
AR15-type pistols. The gun in the rear is equipped with a 100-round magazine. Credit: Garen Wintemute/UC Davis

California’s stringent weapons laws go a long way toward reducing illegal purchases at gun shows without alienating potential customers, finds a leading researcher in the prevention of firearm violence.

Garen Wintemute, a professor of emergency medicine at the University of California, Davis, covertly observed and documented illegal gun sales at 28 gun shows; eight were in California, where shows are tightly regulated, and the rest were in Nevada, Arizona, Texas and Florida.

California requires that gun show promoters be licensed, while the other four states (the leading sources of guns used in crimes in California) don’t regulate shows at all.

Gun shows have long been suspected to be source of guns for criminals, but “before this no one, to my knowledge, has actually gone to these shows and observed what guns were being sold and to whom, or checked whether laws were being adhered to,” said Stephen Teret, director of the Center for Law and the Public’s Health at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, who was not involved in this research.

“Now, for the first time, the public policy discussion on gun shows can be based on data rather than speculation,” Teret added.

More ‘straw purchases’

Wintemute saw far more “straw purchases” (where someone with a clean record buys a gun for someone with a criminal record) in unregulated states.

Though these transactions are banned by federal law, most of the straw purchases Wintemute saw were “out in the open, with no evidence that buyer or seller felt the need to hide their conduct,” he said. “So I infer from that that there’s no substantial effort to enforce [the federal law banning straw purchases] at gun shows.”

The sale of assault weapons and undocumented private party gun transactions (which don’t require a background check) were far less common at the California shows, where they are regulated and require background checks.

Private party purchases are another suspected source of guns for criminals. After one such transaction that Wintemute witnessed in which four young men bought eight handguns, a gang unit officer commented, “They’ll just take ‘em out on the street and sell ‘em.”

Wintemute expected California’s stern laws to deter visitors from shows there, but found just the opposite: California shows had more visitors per vendor.

“Gun shows can be regulated so as to diminish their importance as sources of crime guns without greatly diminishing attendance or commercial activity,” he said.

The bottom line, according to Wintemute: “Regulation works.”


http://kstp.com/article/stories/S354039.shtml?cat=1

Oh gosh, what's this? "A new bill introduced at the Capitol is aimed at existing Minnesota gun laws. Lawmakers want to close a loophole that allows anyone to buy guns at private sales without a background check." And it's dated 2008? Does that mean there's currently no fucking regulation at Minnesota gun shows for private sales? Not even by the godly ATF?

"This is a very dangerous weapon. No ID, no background check or anything that went along with the purchase of a gun," Duluth Police Chief Gordon Ramsey said as he displayed a gun that was purchased through the loophole


Hey, I got an idea. Lets see what the ATF has to sale about private sales. Straight from their handbook, motherfucker.

When a transaction takes place between
private (unlicensed) persons
who reside in the same State, the
Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require
any record keeping.
A private
person may sell a firearm to another
private individual in his or her State of
residence and, similarly, a private
individual may buy a firearm from
another private person who resides in
the same State. It is not necessary
under Federal law for a Federal firearms
licensee (FFL) to assist in the
sale or transfer when the buyer and
seller are "same-State" residents.
Of
course, the transferor/seller may not
knowingly transfer a firearm to someone
who falls within any of the categories
of prohibited persons
contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S. C.
§§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated
above, there are no GCA-required
records to be completed
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
talismania
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States2364 Posts
June 28 2008 04:18 GMT
#172
On June 28 2008 09:21 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2008 09:00 talismania wrote:
eh. don't think the founders really foresaw the issues with this amendment. seems to me that it's meant to protect militias, hence the part about, you know, the militias. They didn't word it well enough though, and now it can be interpreted as giving everyone the right to own a gun, whether they're part of a state militia or not.


You do not know what you're talking about.

I'll let a co-author of the amendment speak for himself:

Show nested quote +
George Mason during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788 said:
I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.






I mean, it's true that I know nothing of the historical circumstances of the penning of the amendment or what the co-authors thought of it.

I just look at it logically... if George Mason felt that way, he should have written it so that it said "so that the people are not enslaved, they have a right to arms." or something like that. There's no point in using "militia" as a proxy for "the people" when you could just say "the people". There had to be SOME reason they invoked the concept of a militia (perhaps you, as an apparent historian of these matters, know what it is). The point is that the militia line is there, and it can't be ignored and somehow semantically wished away.

either way, I don't see why people can't defend their homes with rifles or shotguns instead of handguns... at the range that they would be facing an intruder it wouldn't really matter.
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
June 28 2008 04:24 GMT
#173
Kwark's (mis)understanding of the AMerican Revolution has always amused me.

Mindcrime, Funchucks, and RPF raped this thread.

Good read.
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
Funchucks
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada2113 Posts
June 28 2008 04:49 GMT
#174
On June 28 2008 13:18 talismania wrote:
I just look at it logically... if George Mason felt that way, he should have written it so that it said "so that the people are not enslaved, they have a right to arms." or something like that. There's no point in using "militia" as a proxy for "the people" when you could just say "the people". There had to be SOME reason they invoked the concept of a militia (perhaps you, as an apparent historian of these matters, know what it is). The point is that the militia line is there, and it can't be ignored and somehow semantically wished away.

"Chainsaw bandits being inconvenient at the best of times, the right of the people to keep and arm bears shall not be infringed."

"The cost of living being rather higher than one would expect in a so-called 'free state', the right of the people to beg and keep alms shall not be infringed."

"Honey being necessary to the toast of a free state, the right of the people to keep and farm bees shall not be infringed."

"This first part of the sentence being a mere comment, the rest of it shall be considered a rule which has legal force unaffected by the first part."
I serve my houseguests slices of butter.
rpf
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States2705 Posts
June 28 2008 05:19 GMT
#175
On June 28 2008 13:18 talismania wrote:
I mean, it's true that I know nothing of the historical circumstances of the penning of the amendment or what the co-authors thought of it.

That goes without saying for most TL members; even Americans.

On June 28 2008 13:18 talismania wrote:
I just look at it logically... if George Mason felt that way, he should have written it so that it said "so that the people are not enslaved, they have a right to arms." or something like that. There's no point in using "militia" as a proxy for "the people" when you could just say "the people". There had to be SOME reason they invoked the concept of a militia (perhaps you, as an apparent historian of these matters, know what it is). The point is that the militia line is there, and it can't be ignored and somehow semantically wished away.

I just look at it logically, too: The first clause needs the second to exist, and vice versa. The militia is comprised of the people, and only a well-equipped (i.e. "well-regulated") militia can perpetuate the security of a free state, hence why I, and millions of other level-headed individuals will adamantly oppose legislation that arbitrarily limits what the law-abiding can own.

* The term "well-regulated" in the 18th century is synonymous with saying "well-equipped" today.
* Mason defined "arms" as weaponry of military use

On June 28 2008 13:18 talismania wrote:
either way, I don't see why people can't defend their homes with rifles or shotguns instead of handguns... at the range that they would be facing an intruder it wouldn't really matter.

Well then don't use a handgun to defend yourself, but don't tell me what I can and can't use. I'm not a criminal; I'm not the one you need to worry about.

On June 28 2008 13:24 HeadBangaa wrote:
Kwark's (mis)understanding of the AMerican Revolution has always amused me.

Mindcrime, Funchucks, and RPF raped this thread.

Good read.

Agreed.

Jibba: I'm sorry you don't understand that there are more applicable laws than just those imposed by the ATF. There are still federal, state, and local laws that must be taken into account. There's still paperwork that's supposed to be filled out during private transactions.

And whether you or I like it, there's illegal sales of firearms all the time. How you think the problem only exists at gun shows is beyond me. But hey, keep listening to the horseshit the talking heads from the Brady Campaign keep feeding you.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
June 28 2008 05:48 GMT
#176
On June 28 2008 13:18 talismania wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2008 09:21 Mindcrime wrote:
On June 28 2008 09:00 talismania wrote:
eh. don't think the founders really foresaw the issues with this amendment. seems to me that it's meant to protect militias, hence the part about, you know, the militias. They didn't word it well enough though, and now it can be interpreted as giving everyone the right to own a gun, whether they're part of a state militia or not.


You do not know what you're talking about.

I'll let a co-author of the amendment speak for himself:

George Mason during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788 said:
I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.






I mean, it's true that I know nothing of the historical circumstances of the penning of the amendment or what the co-authors thought of it.

I just look at it logically... if George Mason felt that way, he should have written it so that it said "so that the people are not enslaved, they have a right to arms." or something like that. There's no point in using "militia" as a proxy for "the people" when you could just say "the people". There had to be SOME reason they invoked the concept of a militia (perhaps you, as an apparent historian of these matters, know what it is). The point is that the militia line is there, and it can't be ignored and somehow semantically wished away.


It doesn't matter. What matters is that those involved fully intended for it to be an individual right.

When the Bill of Rights was first being formulated, it was not their intent to add its contents to the end of the Constitution. It was their intent to insert the parts of the Bill of Rights into the appropriate places in the Constitution.

Take a look at this.

The bottom left of that page shows that they clearly intended for the right to bear arms to be inserted into Article 1 Section 9. What is Article 1 Section 9 all about? Well, it's all about limits on Congress.

It was NOT going to be placed in Article 1 Section 8 (The Powers of Congress) which says this:

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress


The only logical conclusion is that its original and correct meaning is that of an individual right.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
5HITCOMBO
Profile Joined March 2006
Japan2239 Posts
June 28 2008 07:36 GMT
#177
On June 28 2008 13:18 talismania wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2008 09:21 Mindcrime wrote:
On June 28 2008 09:00 talismania wrote:
eh. don't think the founders really foresaw the issues with this amendment. seems to me that it's meant to protect militias, hence the part about, you know, the militias. They didn't word it well enough though, and now it can be interpreted as giving everyone the right to own a gun, whether they're part of a state militia or not.


You do not know what you're talking about.

I'll let a co-author of the amendment speak for himself:

George Mason during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788 said:
I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.






I mean, it's true that I know nothing of the historical circumstances of the penning of the amendment or what the co-authors thought of it.

Stop contributing like you do, then.

I just look at it logically... if George Mason felt that way, he should have written it so that it said "so that the people are not enslaved, they have a right to arms." or something like that. There's no point in using "militia" as a proxy for "the people" when you could just say "the people". There had to be SOME reason they invoked the concept of a militia (perhaps you, as an apparent historian of these matters, know what it is). The point is that the militia line is there, and it can't be ignored and somehow semantically wished away.

It's only unclear because you take it completely without context and try to interpret it based on what you found on the internet.

either way, I don't see why people can't defend their homes with rifles or shotguns instead of handguns... at the range that they would be facing an intruder it wouldn't really matter.

Do you realize how much more effective and non-lethal you can be with a pistol than a shotgun or rifle?
I live in perpetual fear of terrorists and studio gangsters
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-28 13:43:10
June 28 2008 13:35 GMT
#178


Jibba: I'm sorry you don't understand that there are more applicable laws than just those imposed by the ATF. There are still federal, state, and local laws that must be taken into account. There's still paperwork that's supposed to be filled out during private transactions.

And whether you or I like it, there's illegal sales of firearms all the time. How you think the problem only exists at gun shows is beyond me. But hey, keep listening to the horseshit the talking heads from the Brady Campaign keep feeding you.

Fuck the Brady Campaign. Maybe you missed the first two major parts of my post that detailed how state and local laws are not keeping up with enforcement and that it is still fairly easy to obtain a firearm without any real regulation. You also must've missed my post where I said private transactions happen at all different levels, and then the little idiot chose to say something about ATF gunshow regulation which turns out to be absolutely false.

Say what you want about my moral view on guns, but don't confuse me for an idiot that listens to Michael Moore or looks at lobbyist fact sheets. I specifically look at newspaper articles, research papers and official documents.

You're the one who refuses to give credence to any decision made by the Supreme Court or Congress between 1800 and 1990.
"Oh, that silly Militia Act that federalizes state militia means nothing. Thomas Jefferson said the definiton of a militia is "blah blah blah blah" and it doesn't matter what anyone in power said after him."
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24764 Posts
June 28 2008 16:05 GMT
#179
On June 28 2008 16:36 5HITCOMBO wrote:
Do you realize how much more effective and non-lethal you can be with a pistol than a shotgun or rifle?

I'm only idly reading this thread, but could you please elaborate on what you mean. I'd definitely agree with non-lethal if you consider the logic behind the advice that you bring a rifle to a gun fight, not a handgun, but I'm not yet understanding why you label the handgun as more effective. I'll gladly read your explanation or link to information, but in case you were going to suggest it is common sense, please do not (hopefully I'm wrong about this).
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-28 17:01:48
June 28 2008 16:31 GMT
#180
On June 28 2008 09:50 Funchucks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2008 08:07 Jibba wrote:
On June 28 2008 00:29 Funchucks wrote:
On June 28 2008 00:18 Jibba wrote:
On June 28 2008 00:08 Funchucks wrote:
On June 27 2008 22:23 Jibba wrote:
On June 27 2008 14:56 Funchucks wrote:
On June 27 2008 14:06 Jibba wrote:
The underlying problems in D.C. and other super heavy crime cities need to be addresses, but overall throughout the country I think there's a lot less bad guys than people believe and I still don't see how semi-automatic weapons fit into the mix.


If you're specifically against semi-automatic pistols
Sounds good to me.

If you're specifically against semi-automatic rifles or shotguns, you're against very conventional and common hunting equipment.

That too.

In other words, "I didn't read any of it, am not interested in hearing any facts that will make anything I said seem foolish, and will continue to hold views based on ignorance."

I read it all. Somehow "conventional hunting equipment" doesn't make a compelling argument.

First of all, you're dodging the "semi-automatic pistol = safer than the alternative" argument.
It's safer in handling and maintenance. The alternatives are less deadly weapons, however.

This is silly. The point of a sidearm is to be a deadly weapon.

Revolvers are lower-priced and more reliable at lower price points. There are models that take larger and more powerful rounds than any semi-automatic pistol.

The only thing that would make semi-automatic pistols "more deadly" is the larger ammunition capacity. By the same token, this makes the semi-automatic a more effective defense, especially against criminals who attack in gangs.

Limited ammunition could discourage the citizen from firing warning shots, making his behavior more deadly.

Revolvers and semi-automatic pistols each have their advantages and disadvantages. If there is going to be a concealed carry law, then the armed citizen should choose his preferred weapon. Restricting him to one or the other is not logically consistent.
Show nested quote +
Secondly, you're not addressing the "semi-automatic rifles and shotguns have only a slightly faster rate of fire than the alternative" argument. You apparently have no trouble advocating the confiscation of a whole category of legitimate sporting equipment which is very rarely used in crime and does not make criminals significantly more effective or dangerous.
I'm also well aware that hunting rifles are rarely used in serious crimes, which is why Canada can have a large quantity of guns with low crime rates. I just don't think people should have high calibre, laser sighted rifles.

This has nothing at all to do with "semi-automatic".

I do think anyone who wants to purchase a high caliber, laser-sighted rifle shouldn't be allowed to have any guns or breed and pass on his defective genes.
deadly is a measure of risk to public, after all, those who want to regulate certain arms more than others and thus set up special categories to classify them are interested in the danger to public aspect of it.

in any case, as soon as classifications are devised, the argument turns from rights to welfare policymaking. the government's power to regulate arms is already presumed. the choice is between one form of regulation and another. however, if you want to attack that power of regulation head-on, i do not see how arguing for a more expansive stock of "guns fit for private possession" will help the general case of gun rights.


anyways, how many people actually read the entire decision and dissents. seems like the only substantial issue resolved is the no-go of the total ban, with some functional derivatives. this is acceptable, but not really the wild west kind of victory gun nuts may think.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
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