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Bloodyhawk2000
United States7 Posts
Poll: Hardest race to play? (Vote): Protoss (Vote): Terran (Vote): Zerg In your opinion which do you think is the hardest race to use? I am a Zerg player and I saw someone say that Zerg was a harder race to use then Protoss. I have never had any problems in learning my race. So which race do you think is the hardest to use. | ||
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noobienoob
United States1173 Posts
abcdefghijklmopqrstuvwxyz1234567890 edit: I'd have to say Terran is the hardest race to use because they require so much concentration/attention to use effectively; the Terran units have REALLY STUPID AI compared to Zerg and Protoss Units so you have to be paying attention to your units most of the time on top of macroing and doing everything else that needs to be done. To add to that their units are fragile and for the most part have really crappy mobility. This is offset by the fact that when they are managed correctly, they can get by through pure mechanics alone due to the ranged nature of their units. Zerg is next in line as the zerg macro is a bit more complex than the other two races, their units are very fragile (set aside ultralisks) and you also have to control many units at a time. Fortunately, zerg units are blessed with good AI and are very mobile. Protoss is probably the easiest race to use because they have so many options, their units are very strong and versatile, and the macro is also very basic. The only thing not so easy about Protoss is Reaver micro and aiming spells, but those two aren't even that hard.. and they got cannons, fuck. lol jk  | ||
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Aurious
Canada1772 Posts
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
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xmShake
United States1100 Posts
Protoss is the easiest in both aspects. | ||
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MoNKeYSpanKeR
United States2869 Posts
It really depends on the player, it's relative to the skill of the player and there choices and the skill level at which its played at. | ||
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MoNKeYSpanKeR
United States2869 Posts
Zerg is hard, unlike the other 2 you are working to balance economic production with unit production, which sounds simple, but when faced with real situations in a game it becomes MUCH harder to handle. Look at people newly starting zerg, there major problems are the fact they have no idea when to make stuff, or whens the right time to do stuff, like the race of Zerg, the player must use instincts that come with experience (aka Game Sense) to know when to do stuff what to do and timing. Instinct with Zerg is probably the most key factor, that and timing. If you over produce fighting units you can leave yourself at an economic disadvantage, if you overproduce economy, you leave yourself too weak of a tactical advantage, meaning your risking it. Without risk there is no reward though, somewhere along the line you gotta risk something. Flawless play doesn't really exist. Edit: and if you were Bloodhawk-Lz or bloodhawk-lzuruha or something, i remember you. Also this is a pretty bad thread, and is probably going to get closed soon. We have had a few topics on this already, and they just come to people voting whatever race they play. Each race is respectively different and harder in different aspects, but protoss is commonly acknowledged as easiest to use, yet hardest to master, especially on higher levels. Maybe if you asked what race would be good to start with and try to get good with, at which point most would say protoss becuase of how strait forward it generally is, atleast for beginers. | ||
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Seraphim
United States4467 Posts
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xhuwin
United States476 Posts
On February 26 2008 14:18 Seraphim wrote: Strategically, P is very hard Can you give an example? I don't think P is any harder strategically than the other two races (assuming you're making that observation relative to the other races, in the context of this poll). | ||
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Zalfor
United States1035 Posts
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Seraphim
United States4467 Posts
Especially in ZvP, Z can win with good mechanics alone, not that that is easy by any means. | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
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Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
Not saying Protoss is inferior, but definitely the learning curve for Protoss is much easier and once you get the basics down you're good to go to improve. There is a huge gap that Zerg and Terrans have to make, where you see D+/C- Terrans suck soooo much compared to C+, even though the ranking is only a slight difference. | ||
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Seraphim
United States4467 Posts
On February 26 2008 14:27 nevake wrote: In terms of timing, toss is definitely the easiest (the timing is more natural than the other 2) and Terran is most likely the hardest. Overall I think Terran is hard because of the mechanics and timings, zerg is next because of how you have to attack, and toss is easiest in most cases in everything. I agree that anything mechanical in P in easier than the other two races. I'm not saying the thinking part of T or Z is easy by any means, but it seems that P is especially difficult in developing its mindset. My point is - It's easy for a P to get to D+ or C- but incredibly difficult to get to B- and beyond | ||
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On February 26 2008 14:57 Ancestral wrote: I think Zerg and Terran are both very hard, since I don't play them. But I'm thinking about switching because I yearn to be different, and everyone on ICCup plays Protoss, apparently. Come to the Overmind my child, it's a choice you'll never regret. | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
On February 26 2008 14:05 Aurious wrote: T>Z>P | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2008 14:59 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: Come to the Overmind my child, it's a choice you'll never regret. I am considering it, but my P is the only one good enough to beat anyone on ICCup at all, and my friends who play because I convince them too are so bad I can easily beat them in any of the nine matchups. I guess I could just start from square one, read build orders, play online, lose, repeat. | ||
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clazziquai
6685 Posts
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On February 26 2008 14:29 Superiorwolf wrote: Terran harder than Zerg harder than Protoss. Not saying Protoss is inferior, but definitely the learning curve for Protoss is much easier and once you get the basics down you're good to go to improve. There is a huge gap that Zerg and Terrans have to make, where you see D+/C- Terrans suck soooo much compared to C+, even though the ranking is only a slight difference. yeah I guess the "gap" just comes later for protoss | ||
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Daranee
338 Posts
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l)K-Arkaim
14 Posts
On February 26 2008 15:04 clazziquai wrote: P is harder at highly competetive level lol. But the hardest to use is Terran by FAR. Wow seriously? Can anyone confirm this because if it's true then I am going to have a tough time in my terran career just getting past D+. | ||
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InfeSteD
United States4658 Posts
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mikeymoo
Canada7170 Posts
On February 26 2008 14:10 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: Where's Night Elf? Dammit I was gonna say that. | ||
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ATeddyBear
Canada2843 Posts
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ChessWhiz
United States260 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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noobienoob
United States1173 Posts
edit@below: just joking, but as far as I was concerned when I played WC3 NE was so easy to play compared to the other three races. I quit cuz my race Undead sucked ballz  | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2008 15:30 noobienoob wrote: Night Elf is fucking ez, just build Demon Hunter and run around the map randomly and at some point you'll just win ^^;;; I don't get it, is WarIII horribly imbalanced or something? All I ever did was campaign :/ | ||
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tiffany
3664 Posts
case in point, historically protoss has had the least amount of success in progaming, and it used to be a big deal when more than a few protoss made a starleague. the current scene seems to suggest a more level playing field, but don't forget to factor in a few favorable protoss maps | ||
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MaRiNe23
United States747 Posts
On February 26 2008 15:33 tiffany wrote: i agree with seraphim; while protoss is relatively easier mechanically and strategically for lower tier players, it is much harder to perfect at a professional level. case in point, historically protoss has had the least amount of success in progaming, and it used to be a big deal when more than a few protoss made a starleague. the current scene seems to suggest a more level playing field, but don't forget to factor in a few favorable protoss maps Agreed with what she said. And examples like legend of the fall comes to mind like garimto and anytime. Also, bisu revolutionizing pvz helped turn protoss players drastically too. Overall the skill level has increased alot since the old days and players found ways to basically get the job done. | ||
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Newbistic
China2912 Posts
With the other two races you just pump workers and troops, and end up with an army. All you gotta pay attention to is the timing and positions. With Zerg you have to pay attention to timing AND economy, when to use larva on troops and when to use larva on drones. Plus the hatcheries end up all over the map, while with Terran and Protoss most of the unit production is clustered in a single place. | ||
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5532 Posts
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
For me I always struggled playing Terran until I decided to switch to Zerg quite a few years ago, at that time it was just because i liked the zerg forces and some of their possibilities in battle were fun. But also the race clicks with how I think about the game, I like to set things up with feints and follow them up with tech switches, mass droning or drops. I dont like to simply macro and then micro in the center to win my games. Zerg is imo more strategical, where T and P are more tactical and mechanical. | ||
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ineverwin
United States93 Posts
For example: PvT is probably the easiest matchup C- and below. If the players are of equal skill, the protoss will usually win, simply because of the multitasking and timing required for TvP. However, once you start playing against Terrans with real macro and good timing, you finally realize the danger of facing an army that can and will deal much more damage than yours, if fought on Terran's terms. Same for ZvT. At lower levels, Zerg can toy with Terran, while higher level ZvT can feel helpless. In response to red.venom: I can't really agree that Zerg is more strategic. All races can do some pretty creative strategies (both tactical and strategic). At lower levels, Terran is too busy dealing with mechanics to be able to worry about it, but Protoss can pull the very same GayStrats that Zerg can (even faking drops), but they can also hide tech and proxy and generally use buildings in more creative ways than zerg can. Boxer showed that Terran's can be very deceptive and creative at mid-levels (2002 pro-level is probably B-/B+ now), and if you watch professional games, I don't think I ever get the feeling that Zergs are being more strategic ZvT than Terrans. If anything, Terrans are having to bend over backwards to be creative to beat modern Zergs, while Zergs are playing textbook. | ||
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0xDEADBEEF
Germany1235 Posts
- If you're slow (low APM), hardest is Terran, then Zerg, then Protoss. - If not, hardest is Zerg, then Terran, then Protoss. | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
In terms of game sense, Zerg macro is pretty hard. Terran is more based on timing. Protoss is stuck between again because probes can always be mining and strong unit hp gives a bit more leniency on timing. In terms of tactics, Protoss comes out on top due to lack of unit variety and slow tech tree. So the Protoss really, REALLY has to make the best use of his units. TvP you can raid / drop with vults, lay mines, you can defend with sieged tanks, drop them, or push with them. ZvP cracklings are pretty all purpose, lurkers can drop, contain, turtle, counter melee, ultralisks just rape shit. PvT all units play a very narrow role, zealots kill tanks / drag mines, goons kill vults / cleanup, ht's storm support attack / storm raid. Same with PvZ zealots don't necessarily counter anything but hydras and are dead even with lings (whoever has more / micros better wins), they are just there to keep ling numbers down and make sure goons don't get raped. Goons counter lurks and ultralisks but only with support. The ht pretty much makes or breaks PvZ, the HT is the P's crackling in PvZ storms everything + in archon form kills shit. Wow, anyway, the point I was trying ot make was Protoss have to make the best of their units because they are low in number and take a long time to replenish. I think this is why it's harder to play P on a higher level. I don't remember the point of my post anymore, weeeee. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On February 26 2008 14:18 MoNKeYSpanKeR wrote: What XMShake said is pretty accurate actually, protoss is considered the most simple (yet ironically in the game they are the most technologically advanced?) Ironically? Advanced does not mean something is worse, harder to use or less effective. | ||
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eugen1225
Yugoslavia134 Posts
Well lets takea look a this shall we, when you auto attack lings they are so stupid, they actually require a whole second to auto aquire a target and start moving and attacking, if you dance your attacked unit, they take another second of stupidity to start moving again, hence the constant requirement to focus them to be effective (ling micro), now does teran have to do this with rines. no, ranged units do not suffer from this retarded 1 second delay, and guess what 99% teran units are ranged, so we have to conclude that Terran does not have the most stupid units as someone boldly stated. Also i disagree of teran being the hardest to use, it always has the least forces on the ground, so i ts easyer to group them, toss always has to use more army to beat the terran army (and stay 1 expo ahead) and so does the zerg, in PvZ zerg have so many units its impossible to even try and grp them all when population reaches over 100, toss even on very high population still has around 4 grps, easily hotkeyable, also its so much harder to use swarms efectivly than storms or Iradiate, iradiate being the easyest one to use. Some may disagree, some may agrree with me, but theres no real way of proving witch is harder to use, since a lot of the skill in using a race is strat and timing, on pro level, execution is no longer a problem to any of the players, so this discusion is a bit pointless. Only not-gosu ppl like you and me (cuz thats what we are, its reality we are not,pro no matter how good some of you may be) can debate this, and hold some relevance in some of our minds, hence the views are highly subjective (so is mine in the end, although i try to be as objective as i can). | ||
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noobienoob
United States1173 Posts
On February 26 2008 19:17 eugen1225 wrote: Well, try to engage 2 lurkers with a lurker egg in front of them without microing at all besides attack-moving/scanning to the spot and see what the marines end up doing. Watch Goliaths stupidly stand there as Carriers go out of range.Someone wrote terran units are stupid compared to toss and zerg, hmmm.... Well lets takea look a this shall we, when you auto attack lings they are so stupid, they actually require a whole second to auto aquire a target and start moving and attacking, if you dance your attacked unit, they take another second of stupidity to start moving again, hence the constant requirement to focus them to be effective (ling micro), now does teran have to do this with rines. no, ranged units do not suffer from this retarded 1 second delay, and guess what 99% teran units are ranged, so we have to conclude that Terran does not have the most stupid units as someone boldly stated. Also i disagree of teran being the hardest to use, it always has the least forces on the ground, so i ts easyer to group them, toss always has to use more army to beat the terran army (and stay 1 expo ahead) and so does the zerg, in PvZ zerg have so many units its impossible to even try and grp them all when population reaches over 100, toss even on very high population still has around 4 grps, easily hotkeyable, also its so much harder to use swarms efectivly than storms or Iradiate, iradiate being the easyest one to use. Some may disagree, some may agrree with me, but theres no real way of proving witch is harder to use, since a lot of the skill in using a race is strat and timing, on pro level, execution is no longer a problem to any of the players, so this discusion is a bit pointless. Only not-gosu ppl like you and me (cuz thats what we are, its reality we are not,pro no matter how good some of you may be) can debate this, and hold some relevance in some of our minds, hence the views are highly subjective (so is mine in the end, although i try to be as objective as i can). I was talking about if you don't try to micro your units besides the bare minimum A+Click. Zerglings as well as other zerg units are very smart when using A+Click and will rape provided you engage/flank correctly, marines and Goliaths are horrible and tend to just get raped if not controlled. Of course marines are a lot more efficient when you micro them, but that requires attention. Tell me which one is harder to control while keeping up in macro, lurk/ling/ultra or marine/med/vessel? Point is Terran is way harder to efficiently control than other races. Yes a good Terran's late-game is a real bitch to handle as a zerg, but if you can't handle it odds are the Terran player owning you probably worked his ass off training a lot more than you have on your zerg to get to the level of play that he's at. okay i admit dragoons are pretty dumb vs tanks/mines edit:...you said irradiate is the easiest to use and storm/swarm is harder.. okay LOL why did I even bother responding to you <_> | ||
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LeoTheLion
China958 Posts
whereas terran just 1t2t3t4t 1a2a3a4a (though casting irradiate is a little apm demanding) | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
EDIT: But then again, all these discussions are retarded. | ||
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drug_vict1m
844 Posts
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Doctorasul
Romania1145 Posts
I dunno, whenever I won on LT versus a gay terran cliffer, I felt pretty good. You tell me, is it easier to spam turrets on cliffs or to drop while sacrificing shuttles, snipe incoming dropships while not falling behind economically? Also I was under the impression PvZ is damn hard; I guess I'm just falling behind the times. Edit - I voted zerg because knowing when to choose economy over units and vice versa seems to me to be such a difficult thing to learn. I don't know anything about ZvT but Z micro looks so much more difficult and with larger penalties when doing it wrong, especially late game. | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
zerg on the other hand, at every point in the game gets to choose what unit combinations they must do, and make decisions based on many many different factors present in the game. | ||
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3nickma
Denmark1510 Posts
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Fen
Australia1848 Posts
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
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Skew
United States1019 Posts
Mahaha. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
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epjx31
United Kingdom324 Posts
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FieryBalrog
United States1381 Posts
On February 26 2008 19:30 noobienoob wrote: Well, try to engage 2 lurkers with a lurker egg in front of them without microing at all besides attack-moving/scanning to the spot and see what the marines end up doing. Watch Goliaths stupidly stand there as Carriers go out of range. I was talking about if you don't try to micro your units besides the bare minimum A+Click. Zerglings as well as other zerg units are very smart when using A+Click and will rape provided you engage/flank correctly, marines and Goliaths are horrible and tend to just get raped if not controlled. Of course marines are a lot more efficient when you micro them, but that requires attention. Tell me which one is harder to control while keeping up in macro, lurk/ling/ultra or marine/med/vessel? Point is Terran is way harder to efficiently control than other races. Yes a good Terran's late-game is a real bitch to handle as a zerg, but if you can't handle it odds are the Terran player owning you probably worked his ass off training a lot more than you have on your zerg to get to the level of play that he's at. okay i admit dragoons are pretty dumb vs tanks/mines edit:...you said irradiate is the easiest to use and storm/swarm is harder.. okay LOL why did I even bother responding to you <_> Terran micro/tactics is just mechanically hard, everyone sees the level of multitasking/micro Ts have to pull off so the difficulty in playing Terran is just more obvious. Whereas controlling an army that can melt in 3 seconds if improperly positioned or caught off guard makes controlling zerg units quite annoying too. Marines are "dumb" if youre trying to spread to kill lurks but try having your ling/lurk group caught off guard by a stray tank shot and see how "dumb" they are :p Not to mention Terran has an advantage in suffering less slippery slope than the other races, you make mistakes as a Terran and you still have more chances to come back in the game than the other 2 races. E.g. TvZ you lose your army-> youre quite behind, but you can sit and turtle in your main+nat and try to abuse your super cost-efficient units to get back in the game. ZvT you lose your army-> your nat gets obliterated. I'm not sure what you're talking about on the last part, Irradiate is a hell of a lot easier to use than swarm, using swarm takes some really precise coordination of your forces as well as positioning gamesense, irradiate is essentially a duck-hunt button (see it, irradiate it). You swarm too early-> T simply retreats. You swarm too late-> everythings dead. Not to mention you have to coordinate the defiler with lings or it will die before it gets a single spell off, its an 80 HP slow-ass ground unit whereas irradiate is on a 200 HP speedy flier. | ||
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
On February 26 2008 16:10 Newbistic wrote: Ugh Zerg is hardest by far. With the other two races you just pump workers and troops, and end up with an army. All you gotta pay attention to is the timing and positions. With Zerg you have to pay attention to timing AND economy, when to use larva on troops and when to use larva on drones. Plus the hatcheries end up all over the map, while with Terran and Protoss most of the unit production is clustered in a single place. This is one of the reasons i think Zerg is the hardest to play. | ||
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Wonders
Australia753 Posts
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25998 Posts
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