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On December 23 2018 04:18 Rodya wrote:
A lot of people here keep rehashing the same point: that people intentionally cut worker production. Congratulations on being smart enough to notice that, but not being patient enough to realize that the OP now undertands this. That doesn't mean that your worker production is optimized. I feel like this tool could be really useful for coming up with new builds.
If there were still pro teams, then coaches would take this tool seriously and try to see if there was a way they could exploit it to improve team performance. And that is really all the OP is saying: "here I made a flexible tool with many features, try to see what use you can make of it, and let me know how it goes!". Once you realize this, many of the responses in this thread are perplexing.
That's the thing. He actually doesn't, otherwise he still wouldn't be plugging his silly 9 mins, 2 mins no workers idea. You don't have to be a pro to look at that if a pro player has 63 probes at 9 mins to figure that probably he stopped making probes because he has enough of them already.
On December 23 2018 06:00 XenOsky wrote:
this is a good tool for low level players, i don't get all the hate. It's pointless because anybody with basic maths can in less than a minute do the exact same thing. In fact, if you would just watch and copy a pro build, it'll be more useful than this program.
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On December 23 2018 10:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2018 06:00 XenOsky wrote:
this is a good tool for low level players, i don't get all the hate. It's pointless because anybody with basic maths can in less than a minute do the exact same thing. In fact, if you would just watch and copy a pro build, it'll be more useful than this program.
Everyone who is decent at this game has already copied pro builds. The question is what comes next? Look at the pictures in the first post. If you are an experienced player (say around 2k) and you wanted to take your game to the next level, one way you can do that is to take a vod of a pro player using a build, and plug in this CoachAI to see how many more idle seconds you have compared to them at each point in the game.
You can use a pro replay to see when exactly they cut workers, and you can then compare how much army production you have as them exactly in 3 minutes.
You can look at your own games, and see the difference in idle time between you and Flash, and you can figure out exactly how many minerals you are missing as a result of that. I imagine the tool could be updated so that barracks and factories can be watched for idle time. I don't see how this tool is useless, personally. It seems like it can give you specific numbers for things that people already look for in a replay. When I look at my replay, I just say "oh, too much worker idle time", or "oh, my macro isn't fast enough". It would be nice to have a specific number whose progress I could track and compare it to my favorite players.
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On December 23 2018 11:14 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2018 10:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On December 23 2018 06:00 XenOsky wrote:
this is a good tool for low level players, i don't get all the hate. It's pointless because anybody with basic maths can in less than a minute do the exact same thing. In fact, if you would just watch and copy a pro build, it'll be more useful than this program. Everyone who is decent at this game has already copied pro builds. The question is what comes next? Look at the pictures in the first post. If you are an experienced player (say around 2k) and you wanted to take your game to the next level, one way you can do that is to take a vod of a pro player using a build, and plug in this CoachAI to see how many more idle seconds you have compared to them at each point in the game. You can use a pro replay to see when exactly they cut workers, and you can then compare how much army production you have as them exactly in 3 minutes. You can look at your own games, and see the difference in idle time between you and Flash, and you can figure out exactly how many minerals you are missing as a result of that. I imagine the tool could be updated so that barracks and factories can be watched for idle time. I don't see how this tool is useless, personally. It seems like it can give you specific numbers for things that people already look for in a replay. When I look at my replay, I just say "oh, too much worker idle time", or "oh, my macro isn't fast enough". It would be nice to have a specific number whose progress I could track and compare it to my favorite players.
I do agree that if Moataz can make it measure idle worker time and number workers over time (like in SC2), that would be a great contribution to the Starcraft community.
On another note, I don't think that was main purpose of CoachAI (even though it is probably more useful than the actual purpose, imo), which I think was to show how optimal macro would look like. Moataz said "a 70 EAPM player can make ~20 workers more than Flash @9:00 from the same build ?! ?! ?!" This statement leads me to think that the only way that this is possible is that CoachAI was doing non-stop worker production over all else so it would have to be adapted to be useful for builds that involve worker cuts. I don't think it's impossible though, and maybe he could make the AI do, for example, an idealized Flash Build that accounts for worker cuts and also tries to build the right amount of army units at different times (so that it's not just mindlessly prioritizing worker production over all else), Even though it obviously wouldn't be a perfect model, it would give an decent enough picture of how optimal macro would look like. My main point is that, with regard to its original purpose, it probably isn't super useful at the moment but it might have potential.
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CoachAI v4.0 has arrived ! 
- Major improvments to the TimedBo feature including TTS capabilities (time to say goodby to human coaches!).
- New hotkeys.
- Replay Bo recorder can now show more stuff by pressing CTRL, Upgrade/Tech start time is also logged.
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I hadn't seen this thread until today, and when I read the title in the side-bar, I was like "I bet that's a Moataz post" jokingly. Then I was right. lol
I appreciate that you put forth the effort to perform exercises in critical thinking.
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On June 18 2019 16:13 ninazerg wrote:
I hadn't seen this thread until today, and when I read the title in the side-bar, I was like "I bet that's a Moataz post" jokingly. Then I was right. lol
I appreciate that you put forth the effort to perform exercises in critical thinking.
Thank you nina, I appreciate if you give it a shot and state your experience (what you like/dislike).
In the past, I didn't think Nexus gives supply, but nobody is going to be a newbie forever.
Nobody is always right. Moataz included.
Edit: I only came again to this thread because the main CoachAI thread is closed (mods refused to re-open it), I just believe this thing shouldn't be buried for whatever reasons.
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WCS
