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On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory.
There's definitely a deal to be had. Democrats should give Trump the wall in exchange for some policy that they want.
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On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory.
A crisis of his own making which only he can solve and somehow turns taxpayers paying for the "wall" (that won't be built) that he promised Mexico would pay for is Trump starting the year with a huge win as far as Republican voters are concerned.
He successfully swallowed Warren's announcement whole, and the media seems to want to ride out O'rourke's popularity for a while and I haven't seen any serious analysis of his positions and votes from your mainstream pundits so they might really think he's their best shot or just holding him up as a shield to keep progressives from criticizing other candidates (like Harris or Klobachar) while they build name recognition.
It's weird because Trump is like an idiot savant at this stuff and seems to just stumble into inexplicably advantageous positions knowing better than seemingly anyone just how far he can detach from reality without losing his base.
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On January 05 2019 06:06 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. A crisis of his own making which only he can solve and somehow turns taxpayers paying for the "wall" (that won't be built) that he promised Mexico would pay for is Trump starting the year with a huge win as far as Republican voters are concerned. He successfully swallowed Warren's announcement whole, and the media seems to want to ride out O'rourke's popularity for a while and I haven't seen any serious analysis of his positions and votes from your mainstream pundits so they might really think he's their best shot or just holding him up as a shield to keep progressives from criticizing other candidates (like Harris or Klobachar) while they build name recognition. It's weird because Trump is like an idiot savant at this stuff and seems to just stumble into inexplicably advantageous positions knowing better than seemingly anyone just how far he can detach from reality without losing his base.
Frankly I'm okay with Trump getting to call this a win, as long as Democrats get something decent in return. Full citizenship for DACA recipients and at least legal status for their parents is worth it I think. That's a big benefit for a lot of people, plus the country as a whole.
On January 05 2019 06:05 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. There's definitely a deal to be had. Democrats should give Trump the wall in exchange for some policy that they want.
They've been trying to make a deal for years. The pattern is that Trump initially indicates that he will agree to something, and then shoots it down after Miller works him. His inconsistency is really toxic to the deal making process.
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On January 05 2019 06:05 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. There's definitely a deal to be had. Democrats should give Trump the wall in exchange for some policy that they want.
I don't see a good reason for them to do that. They have the leverage here, and the shutdown isn't popular.
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On January 05 2019 06:17 Mercy13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 06:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. A crisis of his own making which only he can solve and somehow turns taxpayers paying for the "wall" (that won't be built) that he promised Mexico would pay for is Trump starting the year with a huge win as far as Republican voters are concerned. He successfully swallowed Warren's announcement whole, and the media seems to want to ride out O'rourke's popularity for a while and I haven't seen any serious analysis of his positions and votes from your mainstream pundits so they might really think he's their best shot or just holding him up as a shield to keep progressives from criticizing other candidates (like Harris or Klobachar) while they build name recognition. It's weird because Trump is like an idiot savant at this stuff and seems to just stumble into inexplicably advantageous positions knowing better than seemingly anyone just how far he can detach from reality without losing his base. Frankly I'm okay with Trump getting to call this a win, as long as Democrats get something decent in return. Full citizenship for DACA recipients and at least legal status for their parents is worth it I think. That's a big benefit for a lot of people, plus the country as a whole. Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 06:05 xDaunt wrote:On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. There's definitely a deal to be had. Democrats should give Trump the wall in exchange for some policy that they want. They've been trying to make a deal for years. The pattern is that Trump initially indicates that he will agree to something, and then shoots it down after Miller works him. His inconsistency is really toxic to the deal making process.
Would they be getting full citizenship or a potentially interruptable path to it?
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On January 05 2019 06:06 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. A crisis of his own making which only he can solve and somehow turns taxpayers paying for the "wall" (that won't be built) that he promised Mexico would pay for is Trump starting the year with a huge win as far as Republican voters are concerned. He successfully swallowed Warren's announcement whole, and the media seems to want to ride out O'rourke's popularity for a while and I haven't seen any serious analysis of his positions and votes from your mainstream pundits so they might really think he's their best shot or just holding him up as a shield to keep progressives from criticizing other candidates (like Harris or Klobachar) while they build name recognition. It's weird because Trump is like an idiot savant at this stuff and seems to just stumble into inexplicably advantageous positions knowing better than seemingly anyone just how far he can detach from reality without losing his base.
I'm not sure that's the case.
It seems to me that Trump supporters are willing to detach themselves from reality to almost any limit to support him. Doesn't matter how much he flip flops, lies, changes his position, talks utter nonsense, backs down, fails OR succeeds, he maintains unwavering support.
XDaunt's shift from considering Trump a clown to full on cheerleader is informative to me, because I'd normally say he's the sort of person who should be smart enough to see through the bullshit. Trump can't will people to delude themselves, they have to want to do it.
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On January 05 2019 06:30 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 06:17 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 06:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. A crisis of his own making which only he can solve and somehow turns taxpayers paying for the "wall" (that won't be built) that he promised Mexico would pay for is Trump starting the year with a huge win as far as Republican voters are concerned. He successfully swallowed Warren's announcement whole, and the media seems to want to ride out O'rourke's popularity for a while and I haven't seen any serious analysis of his positions and votes from your mainstream pundits so they might really think he's their best shot or just holding him up as a shield to keep progressives from criticizing other candidates (like Harris or Klobachar) while they build name recognition. It's weird because Trump is like an idiot savant at this stuff and seems to just stumble into inexplicably advantageous positions knowing better than seemingly anyone just how far he can detach from reality without losing his base. Frankly I'm okay with Trump getting to call this a win, as long as Democrats get something decent in return. Full citizenship for DACA recipients and at least legal status for their parents is worth it I think. That's a big benefit for a lot of people, plus the country as a whole. On January 05 2019 06:05 xDaunt wrote:On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. There's definitely a deal to be had. Democrats should give Trump the wall in exchange for some policy that they want. They've been trying to make a deal for years. The pattern is that Trump initially indicates that he will agree to something, and then shoots it down after Miller works him. His inconsistency is really toxic to the deal making process. Would they be getting full citizenship or a potentially interruptable path to it?
I'm not sure what you're asking. I'd prefer full citizenship, but I can conceive of deals I would support which would involve some sort of pathway instead.
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On January 05 2019 06:30 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 06:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. A crisis of his own making which only he can solve and somehow turns taxpayers paying for the "wall" (that won't be built) that he promised Mexico would pay for is Trump starting the year with a huge win as far as Republican voters are concerned. He successfully swallowed Warren's announcement whole, and the media seems to want to ride out O'rourke's popularity for a while and I haven't seen any serious analysis of his positions and votes from your mainstream pundits so they might really think he's their best shot or just holding him up as a shield to keep progressives from criticizing other candidates (like Harris or Klobachar) while they build name recognition. It's weird because Trump is like an idiot savant at this stuff and seems to just stumble into inexplicably advantageous positions knowing better than seemingly anyone just how far he can detach from reality without losing his base. I'm not sure that's the case. It seems to me that Trump supporters are willing to detach themselves from reality to almost any limit to support him. Doesn't matter how much he flip flops, lies, changes his position, talks utter nonsense, backs down, fails OR succeeds, he maintains unwavering support. XDaunt's shift from considering Trump a clown to full on cheerleader is informative to me, because I'd normally say he's the sort of person who should be smart enough to see through the bullshit. Trump can't will people to delude themselves, they have to want to do it.
He backed off the birther thing (though reportedly against his personal opinion), so there do seem to be limits, they just don't seem to follow any identifiable pattern from our perspectives imo.
Rather than assume we can ask xDaunt or anyone that would vote for Trump if the election were held today whether they can provide us with an instance where Trump went too far from the truth or failed in an objective and was overwhelmingly responsible for the error?
Or is dave right that nothing he's said or done has been far enough from truth, reality, or his stated intentions for you to recall as unduly problematic?
On January 05 2019 06:36 Mercy13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 06:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2019 06:17 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 06:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. A crisis of his own making which only he can solve and somehow turns taxpayers paying for the "wall" (that won't be built) that he promised Mexico would pay for is Trump starting the year with a huge win as far as Republican voters are concerned. He successfully swallowed Warren's announcement whole, and the media seems to want to ride out O'rourke's popularity for a while and I haven't seen any serious analysis of his positions and votes from your mainstream pundits so they might really think he's their best shot or just holding him up as a shield to keep progressives from criticizing other candidates (like Harris or Klobachar) while they build name recognition. It's weird because Trump is like an idiot savant at this stuff and seems to just stumble into inexplicably advantageous positions knowing better than seemingly anyone just how far he can detach from reality without losing his base. Frankly I'm okay with Trump getting to call this a win, as long as Democrats get something decent in return. Full citizenship for DACA recipients and at least legal status for their parents is worth it I think. That's a big benefit for a lot of people, plus the country as a whole. On January 05 2019 06:05 xDaunt wrote:On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. There's definitely a deal to be had. Democrats should give Trump the wall in exchange for some policy that they want. They've been trying to make a deal for years. The pattern is that Trump initially indicates that he will agree to something, and then shoots it down after Miller works him. His inconsistency is really toxic to the deal making process. Would they be getting full citizenship or a potentially interruptable path to it? I'm not sure what you're asking. I'd prefer full citizenship, but I can conceive of deals I would support which would involve some sort of pathway instead.
I thought there was already something written that you were describing as a DACA fix that granted full citizenship and my initial thought was I thought the legislation was for a "path" which would be more than long enough to be interrupted by Trump or the next administration resulting in wall funding and no citizenship for DACA folks.
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On January 05 2019 06:38 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 06:30 iamthedave wrote:On January 05 2019 06:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. A crisis of his own making which only he can solve and somehow turns taxpayers paying for the "wall" (that won't be built) that he promised Mexico would pay for is Trump starting the year with a huge win as far as Republican voters are concerned. He successfully swallowed Warren's announcement whole, and the media seems to want to ride out O'rourke's popularity for a while and I haven't seen any serious analysis of his positions and votes from your mainstream pundits so they might really think he's their best shot or just holding him up as a shield to keep progressives from criticizing other candidates (like Harris or Klobachar) while they build name recognition. It's weird because Trump is like an idiot savant at this stuff and seems to just stumble into inexplicably advantageous positions knowing better than seemingly anyone just how far he can detach from reality without losing his base. I'm not sure that's the case. It seems to me that Trump supporters are willing to detach themselves from reality to almost any limit to support him. Doesn't matter how much he flip flops, lies, changes his position, talks utter nonsense, backs down, fails OR succeeds, he maintains unwavering support. XDaunt's shift from considering Trump a clown to full on cheerleader is informative to me, because I'd normally say he's the sort of person who should be smart enough to see through the bullshit. Trump can't will people to delude themselves, they have to want to do it. He backed off the birther thing (though reportedly against his personal opinion), so there do seem to be limits, they just don't seem to follow any identifiable pattern from our perspectives imo. Rather than assume we can ask xDaunt or anyone that would vote for Trump if the election were held today whether they can provide us with an instance where Trump went too far from the truth or failed in an objective and was overwhelmingly responsible for the error? Or is dave right that nothing he's said or done has been far enough from truth, reality, or his stated intentions for you to recall as unduly problematic? Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 06:36 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 06:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2019 06:17 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 06:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. A crisis of his own making which only he can solve and somehow turns taxpayers paying for the "wall" (that won't be built) that he promised Mexico would pay for is Trump starting the year with a huge win as far as Republican voters are concerned. He successfully swallowed Warren's announcement whole, and the media seems to want to ride out O'rourke's popularity for a while and I haven't seen any serious analysis of his positions and votes from your mainstream pundits so they might really think he's their best shot or just holding him up as a shield to keep progressives from criticizing other candidates (like Harris or Klobachar) while they build name recognition. It's weird because Trump is like an idiot savant at this stuff and seems to just stumble into inexplicably advantageous positions knowing better than seemingly anyone just how far he can detach from reality without losing his base. Frankly I'm okay with Trump getting to call this a win, as long as Democrats get something decent in return. Full citizenship for DACA recipients and at least legal status for their parents is worth it I think. That's a big benefit for a lot of people, plus the country as a whole. On January 05 2019 06:05 xDaunt wrote:On January 05 2019 05:49 Mercy13 wrote:On January 05 2019 05:38 GreenHorizons wrote:From ZeroCool in the other thread Could have sworn I mentioned that a few pages back. Anyway, as P6 has stated, the things you don't think about, will slowly stop working. NASA, FCC, SEC, HUD, etc. When these services, that affect a very, very large portion of citizens are stopped, those affected will make their voices heard. You'll see some very lively town hall meetings with politicians.
The stock market and by extension, the economy, will slowly tank as this standoff ensues, and the US will lose a credit rating or two because of it. That in turn will make borrowing more expensive, which in turn, makes other necessary things expensive. Taxes will rise but because they have to in order to pay the borrowed money, not because we want to improve infrastructure or handout free education and universal healthcare. this is actually a really important observation. Trump is creating yet another crisis he alone can solve and Republicans have to blame Democrats or rebuild their entire world view, pretty easy to imagine which of those will happen. Trump's got everyone by the balls and he knows it because no one blames the kid for acting like a kid, they blame the adults for failing to keep him in check and Democrats have conditioned their base to expect Democrats to be the adult. So despite Trump screwing over plenty of Republican voters for a childish fit over a "wall" they won't blame him, they'll blame Democrats like they do for everything else. Most Democrats will blame Republicans, but just enough Democrats, independents, and Republicans will blame Trump, but expect Democrats to prevent all of those problems. If they start hitting those voters will blame Democrats for failing as one half of Trump's "parents" and Democrats will have to cave. Best case for Democrats if they want to go the veto-proof route it has to favor Republicans because nothing even slightly Dem favored can clear a veto-proof Senate majority. The only thing stopping the Senate from supporting a clean bill to reopen the government is Trump not giving them cover. They'll support whatever Trump comes around to. Everyone but immigration hardliners seem amenable to a deal involving "wall" money for a fix to DACA. I expect Trump will eventually go for something like that and declare victory. There's definitely a deal to be had. Democrats should give Trump the wall in exchange for some policy that they want. They've been trying to make a deal for years. The pattern is that Trump initially indicates that he will agree to something, and then shoots it down after Miller works him. His inconsistency is really toxic to the deal making process. Would they be getting full citizenship or a potentially interruptable path to it? I'm not sure what you're asking. I'd prefer full citizenship, but I can conceive of deals I would support which would involve some sort of pathway instead. I thought there was already something written that you were describing as a DACA fix that granted full citizenship and my initial thought was I thought the legislation was for a "path" which would be more than long enough to be interrupted by Trump or the next administration resulting in wall funding and no citizenship for DACA folks.
Ah, well I'm not super familiar with the details of what has been proposed in the past so there might have been something along those lines. I wasn't referring to anything specific though. DACA recipients already have to a jump through a lot of hoops, so for what it's worth I personally wouldn't support any pathway to citizenship which involves more than minimal additional process.
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On January 05 2019 06:03 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2019 09:43 IgnE wrote:On January 04 2019 05:28 xDaunt wrote:On January 04 2019 05:24 IgnE wrote:
theres a lot of fake evidence for a lot of things. i still wouldnt want to be uyghur in china. One of the ironies is that Uyghur food is super popular in China right now and may secretly be the best variety of Chinese food. It's right up there with Sichuan food. Too bad it is almost impossible to find in the US. too many bell peppers and too much fried dough I have three words for you: da pan ji. And the Uyghur dumplings are the bomb. That said, I am thrilled that there is another person out there who agrees with me that bell peppers ghetto-up most every dish that they're in.
bell peppers are the second worst vegetable behind those little corn cob things
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On January 05 2019 09:35 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2019 06:03 xDaunt wrote:On January 04 2019 09:43 IgnE wrote:On January 04 2019 05:28 xDaunt wrote:On January 04 2019 05:24 IgnE wrote:
theres a lot of fake evidence for a lot of things. i still wouldnt want to be uyghur in china. One of the ironies is that Uyghur food is super popular in China right now and may secretly be the best variety of Chinese food. It's right up there with Sichuan food. Too bad it is almost impossible to find in the US. too many bell peppers and too much fried dough I have three words for you: da pan ji. And the Uyghur dumplings are the bomb. That said, I am thrilled that there is another person out there who agrees with me that bell peppers ghetto-up most every dish that they're in. bell peppers are the second worst vegetable behind those little corn cob things
Say what you want about their entry into ethnic foods, but keep your grubby mitts off my bell peppers. For shame!
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Bell peppers are a European corruption of a North American treasure, developed for bland palates. They only exist for a certain kind of culinary signalling value. They otherwise substitute for better ingredients.
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Can anyone explain this AOC dance video conspiracy being circulated by people or have people just gone off the deep end?
lol @ xDaunt "ghetto-up" who says that? Is that a white people thing?
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On January 05 2019 12:07 IgnE wrote:
Bell peppers are a European corruption of a North American treasure, developed for bland palates. They only exist for a certain kind of culinary signalling value. They otherwise substitute for better ingredients.
They’re excellent stuffed with ground beef and cheese. They do great in stir fry’s. I cook with them regularly.
All your food opinions are now suspect and I only wonder what other horrors are present in your mind.
The little corn things are rightfully rated. Lower on the totem pole are kale and iceberg lettuce.
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Iceberg lettuce is too insignificant to matter. It's the KFC of vegetables: Trumpian. I imagine Trump (if he ever eats salad) eats iceberg lettuce with carrots, tomatoes, shredded cheese product, and ranch dressing.
Kale may have been overrated, but now that it's hype has died down is properly rated. It's obviously better cooked than raw.
Stuffing bell peppers is a gimmick. It's something people figured out when they were trying to think of a use for such a useless vegetable. As already stated, its presence in a stir-fry is downright offensive.
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Is there not a food thread?
Looks like another corporate dem is testing the waters
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I made it political. Trump has bad taste.
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How did you english weirdos come to name those "bell peppers" wtf
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What do you call them? in German?
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On January 05 2019 12:41 IgnE wrote:
What do you call them? in German?
French for me, "poivron". Come to think of it it's weird as well, it's pepper with a suffix that says that it's small.
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EPT
