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On August 03 2017 18:00 JungleTerrain wrote:You guys realize that BW streamers make a ton of money every month right? Adding them all together I'm sure it's over $100k a month. www.teamliquid.netEdit: after some math: In Feb 2017 BW streamers made around 342,000,000 Korean Won, which is more than $300,000 USD. This is only balloons from afreeca, which does not include YouTube or other sources of revenue. This is also only the top 15 streamers, I don't think the remaining streamers make as much. I wonder what it is now?
Yes, this is what the "Bw omg passion" people are trying to say. And it is impressive that they can seemingly make a good living on streaming.
However this makes these players into what other communities would call full-time streamers rather than professional players, since the work load is so focused on entertaining rather than actually improving.
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On August 03 2017 16:27 duke91 wrote:100% of BW funding comes from sponsors or fans.
Don't really want to get into this pissing match but I highly doubt this is true. I'd be very surprised if Blizzard isn't supporting ASL.
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On August 03 2017 17:42 tub74557 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 15:12 Letmelose wrote:On August 03 2017 14:49 tub74557 wrote:On August 01 2017 04:10 Letmelose wrote:On August 01 2017 02:33 Fango wrote:On August 01 2017 02:22 gumballdead wrote:The reason why SC2 failed is simple: its not as fun of a game to play as BW. It is not fun to build up for 10 minutes and get your whole army crushed because you looked away for two seconds. Brood War was much more mechanically challenging but battles lasted longer and you had a a plethora of UMS games to play if you didn't want to melee. Arcade wasn't added for 2 years and melee in SC2 is just the same cookie cutter builds every game. Don't even get me started on LotV's loss of early game tactics, there was a whole article written here about the lack of strategic depth in SC2.Blizzard has failed to address damage over and over again, instead they added units like widow mines to the game. Another HIGHLY competitive 1v1 game that's very difficult is Street Fighter. If you make a mistake and your opponent punishes you with a Critical Art there is always a chance to come back with smart play, because you get V-Trigger or Bar built up. In SC2 you eat the ultra and then immediately lose the game.. It is unforgiving and not fun, no wonder its a dead game. As I said in the other post, SC2 is more successful than BW in the west. You're literally saying a game is dead, because it isn't like a game that is twice as dead. I guess BW elitists forget they don't live in Korea We're not living in an alternative reality where Korea doesn't exist. Professional Brood War may be dead because Blizzard killed it, but Brood War as a game is in no way shape or form twice as dead as Starcraft 2 in the current climate, one nation's passion for the game prevents that from being a true statement. The love Korea has for Brood War has allowed the scene to prosper without any support from Blizzard, and has in fact convinced Blizzard to take an active involvement with all the business about the remastered version of Brood War. https://www.fuzic.nl/events/?order_by=start&order=descFrom a quick search, it seems that in the year of 2017, the only Starcraft 2 tournament that had over 50,000 peak concurrent viewership on Twitch was the semi-finals and finals for IEM. Just a month or so earlier to IEM, the semi-finals of the ASL had over 200,000 peak concurrent viewership on AfreecaTV (Korea's streaming platform of choice) alone, and had over 300,000 peak concurrent viewership if you include all streaming platforms around the world. http://news20.busan.com/controller/newsController.jsp?newsId=20170117000394http://bbs.afreecatv.com/app/index.php?board=now_report&pageNo=5&b_no=1418&control=viewThe most recent Brood War show-matches that happened a couple of days ago had around 90,000 peak concurrent viewership on NAVER, around 100,000 peak concurrent viewership on AfreecaTV, and had well over 300,000 peak concurrent viewership if you include all streaming platforms around the world. https://nbamania.com/g2/bbs/board.php?bo_table=freetalk&wr_id=3048631Just as it annoys you when people here spread misinformation about your game of choice, it annoys me when people like you spread misinformation about my game of choice. Go defend your game, but be accurate with your statements if you want to drag Brood War down in this shitfest of a thread. So...this is so-called "passion"? https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/152-starcraft-brood-war/events$134k prize pool, seriously? Or you are saying Koreans are so cheap and mean, thus they don't want to invest their money in their "passion" game? Which part of professional Brood War being dead did you not get? There are no professional Brood War players anymore. Only streamers. If you are interested in the revenue of these streamers, please be my guest and find out for yourself exactly how cheap Koreans are. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/466030-afreeca-feed?page=84#1664By your logic United States of America must be more passionate about their sports than the rest of the world combined. I personally think football (soccer) is the most loved sports in the world, but I guess you don't see any value in passion from those who you regard to be cheap. What a way to view the world. Good luck with that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue So you mean streamers cannot attend tournament? Then what is ASL? So why ASL's sponsor invest so little money in it? And why no other third party entities invest more money to create more tournament? And don't you know revenue =/= investment value? The investment in soccer world cup is around $200 billion, which means judging by investment, soccer is the most loved sports in the world. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/14/qatar-world-cup-200-billion-dollar-gamble
If you equate passion with how much large companies invest in the overall business I guess the "passion" of footballing fans must have increased by over ten times compares to the last World Cup, not because more people watched it, cherished what they saw, but because this World Cup is going cost more money.
You can throw around the those large numbers all you want. In the end Brood War players are making a nice living, being loved and being watched by thousands of fans. You seem to be more concerned whether it is a sound business model for the investors. Are you concerned that not enough people are harvesting more money off the talents of our heroes, or are you boasting the fact that it easy easier for Starcraft 2 to strike a partnership deal with Blizzard when using their games to host a tournament?
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On August 03 2017 18:24 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 17:42 tub74557 wrote:On August 03 2017 15:12 Letmelose wrote:On August 03 2017 14:49 tub74557 wrote:On August 01 2017 04:10 Letmelose wrote:On August 01 2017 02:33 Fango wrote:On August 01 2017 02:22 gumballdead wrote:The reason why SC2 failed is simple: its not as fun of a game to play as BW. It is not fun to build up for 10 minutes and get your whole army crushed because you looked away for two seconds. Brood War was much more mechanically challenging but battles lasted longer and you had a a plethora of UMS games to play if you didn't want to melee. Arcade wasn't added for 2 years and melee in SC2 is just the same cookie cutter builds every game. Don't even get me started on LotV's loss of early game tactics, there was a whole article written here about the lack of strategic depth in SC2.Blizzard has failed to address damage over and over again, instead they added units like widow mines to the game. Another HIGHLY competitive 1v1 game that's very difficult is Street Fighter. If you make a mistake and your opponent punishes you with a Critical Art there is always a chance to come back with smart play, because you get V-Trigger or Bar built up. In SC2 you eat the ultra and then immediately lose the game.. It is unforgiving and not fun, no wonder its a dead game. As I said in the other post, SC2 is more successful than BW in the west. You're literally saying a game is dead, because it isn't like a game that is twice as dead. I guess BW elitists forget they don't live in Korea We're not living in an alternative reality where Korea doesn't exist. Professional Brood War may be dead because Blizzard killed it, but Brood War as a game is in no way shape or form twice as dead as Starcraft 2 in the current climate, one nation's passion for the game prevents that from being a true statement. The love Korea has for Brood War has allowed the scene to prosper without any support from Blizzard, and has in fact convinced Blizzard to take an active involvement with all the business about the remastered version of Brood War. https://www.fuzic.nl/events/?order_by=start&order=descFrom a quick search, it seems that in the year of 2017, the only Starcraft 2 tournament that had over 50,000 peak concurrent viewership on Twitch was the semi-finals and finals for IEM. Just a month or so earlier to IEM, the semi-finals of the ASL had over 200,000 peak concurrent viewership on AfreecaTV (Korea's streaming platform of choice) alone, and had over 300,000 peak concurrent viewership if you include all streaming platforms around the world. http://news20.busan.com/controller/newsController.jsp?newsId=20170117000394http://bbs.afreecatv.com/app/index.php?board=now_report&pageNo=5&b_no=1418&control=viewThe most recent Brood War show-matches that happened a couple of days ago had around 90,000 peak concurrent viewership on NAVER, around 100,000 peak concurrent viewership on AfreecaTV, and had well over 300,000 peak concurrent viewership if you include all streaming platforms around the world. https://nbamania.com/g2/bbs/board.php?bo_table=freetalk&wr_id=3048631Just as it annoys you when people here spread misinformation about your game of choice, it annoys me when people like you spread misinformation about my game of choice. Go defend your game, but be accurate with your statements if you want to drag Brood War down in this shitfest of a thread. So...this is so-called "passion"? https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/152-starcraft-brood-war/events$134k prize pool, seriously? Or you are saying Koreans are so cheap and mean, thus they don't want to invest their money in their "passion" game? Which part of professional Brood War being dead did you not get? There are no professional Brood War players anymore. Only streamers. If you are interested in the revenue of these streamers, please be my guest and find out for yourself exactly how cheap Koreans are. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/466030-afreeca-feed?page=84#1664By your logic United States of America must be more passionate about their sports than the rest of the world combined. I personally think football (soccer) is the most loved sports in the world, but I guess you don't see any value in passion from those who you regard to be cheap. What a way to view the world. Good luck with that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue So you mean streamers cannot attend tournament? Then what is ASL? So why ASL's sponsor invest so little money in it? And why no other third party entities invest more money to create more tournament? And don't you know revenue =/= investment value? The investment in soccer world cup is around $200 billion, which means judging by investment, soccer is the most loved sports in the world. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/14/qatar-world-cup-200-billion-dollar-gamble If you equate passion with how much large companies invest in the overall business I guess the "passion" of footballing fans must have increased by over ten times compares to the last World Cup, not because more people watched it, cherished what they saw, but because this World Cup is going cost more money. You can throw around the those large numbers all you want. In the end Brood War players are making a nice living, being loved and being watched by thousands of fans. You seem to be more concerned whether it is a sound business model for the investors. Are you concerned that not enough people are harvesting more money off the talents of our heroes, or are you boasting the fact that it easy easier for Starcraft 2 to strike a partnership deal with Blizzard when using their games to host a tournament?
I'm saying in my opinion, if people have passion in a game, they would invest more money in it to create more tournaments.
Like our Chinese people love Warcraft 3, so there are 51 events of $550k prize from 2016 to today. No partnership and no prize support from Blizzard.
Isn't that really hard to understand?
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On August 03 2017 18:24 nighcol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 16:27 duke91 wrote:100% of BW funding comes from sponsors or fans. Don't really want to get into this pissing match but I highly doubt this is true. I'd be very surprised if Blizzard isn't supporting ASL.
Blizzard has never supported ASL. It might change since they are releasing remastered, but Blizzard has never supported any broodwar tournaments before. Mostly they ignored Korea, then tried convert BW tournaments to SC2 once SC2 was released.
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On August 03 2017 19:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 18:24 nighcol wrote:On August 03 2017 16:27 duke91 wrote:100% of BW funding comes from sponsors or fans. Don't really want to get into this pissing match but I highly doubt this is true. I'd be very surprised if Blizzard isn't supporting ASL. Blizzard has never supported ASL. It might change since they are releasing remastered, but Blizzard has never supported any broodwar tournaments before. Mostly they ignored Korea, then tried convert BW tournaments to SC2 once SC2 was released.
How do you know this?
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On August 03 2017 18:59 tub74557 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 18:24 Letmelose wrote:On August 03 2017 17:42 tub74557 wrote:On August 03 2017 15:12 Letmelose wrote:On August 03 2017 14:49 tub74557 wrote:On August 01 2017 04:10 Letmelose wrote:On August 01 2017 02:33 Fango wrote:On August 01 2017 02:22 gumballdead wrote:The reason why SC2 failed is simple: its not as fun of a game to play as BW. It is not fun to build up for 10 minutes and get your whole army crushed because you looked away for two seconds. Brood War was much more mechanically challenging but battles lasted longer and you had a a plethora of UMS games to play if you didn't want to melee. Arcade wasn't added for 2 years and melee in SC2 is just the same cookie cutter builds every game. Don't even get me started on LotV's loss of early game tactics, there was a whole article written here about the lack of strategic depth in SC2.Blizzard has failed to address damage over and over again, instead they added units like widow mines to the game. Another HIGHLY competitive 1v1 game that's very difficult is Street Fighter. If you make a mistake and your opponent punishes you with a Critical Art there is always a chance to come back with smart play, because you get V-Trigger or Bar built up. In SC2 you eat the ultra and then immediately lose the game.. It is unforgiving and not fun, no wonder its a dead game. As I said in the other post, SC2 is more successful than BW in the west. You're literally saying a game is dead, because it isn't like a game that is twice as dead. I guess BW elitists forget they don't live in Korea We're not living in an alternative reality where Korea doesn't exist. Professional Brood War may be dead because Blizzard killed it, but Brood War as a game is in no way shape or form twice as dead as Starcraft 2 in the current climate, one nation's passion for the game prevents that from being a true statement. The love Korea has for Brood War has allowed the scene to prosper without any support from Blizzard, and has in fact convinced Blizzard to take an active involvement with all the business about the remastered version of Brood War. https://www.fuzic.nl/events/?order_by=start&order=descFrom a quick search, it seems that in the year of 2017, the only Starcraft 2 tournament that had over 50,000 peak concurrent viewership on Twitch was the semi-finals and finals for IEM. Just a month or so earlier to IEM, the semi-finals of the ASL had over 200,000 peak concurrent viewership on AfreecaTV (Korea's streaming platform of choice) alone, and had over 300,000 peak concurrent viewership if you include all streaming platforms around the world. http://news20.busan.com/controller/newsController.jsp?newsId=20170117000394http://bbs.afreecatv.com/app/index.php?board=now_report&pageNo=5&b_no=1418&control=viewThe most recent Brood War show-matches that happened a couple of days ago had around 90,000 peak concurrent viewership on NAVER, around 100,000 peak concurrent viewership on AfreecaTV, and had well over 300,000 peak concurrent viewership if you include all streaming platforms around the world. https://nbamania.com/g2/bbs/board.php?bo_table=freetalk&wr_id=3048631Just as it annoys you when people here spread misinformation about your game of choice, it annoys me when people like you spread misinformation about my game of choice. Go defend your game, but be accurate with your statements if you want to drag Brood War down in this shitfest of a thread. So...this is so-called "passion"? https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/152-starcraft-brood-war/events$134k prize pool, seriously? Or you are saying Koreans are so cheap and mean, thus they don't want to invest their money in their "passion" game? Which part of professional Brood War being dead did you not get? There are no professional Brood War players anymore. Only streamers. If you are interested in the revenue of these streamers, please be my guest and find out for yourself exactly how cheap Koreans are. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/466030-afreeca-feed?page=84#1664By your logic United States of America must be more passionate about their sports than the rest of the world combined. I personally think football (soccer) is the most loved sports in the world, but I guess you don't see any value in passion from those who you regard to be cheap. What a way to view the world. Good luck with that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue So you mean streamers cannot attend tournament? Then what is ASL? So why ASL's sponsor invest so little money in it? And why no other third party entities invest more money to create more tournament? And don't you know revenue =/= investment value? The investment in soccer world cup is around $200 billion, which means judging by investment, soccer is the most loved sports in the world. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/14/qatar-world-cup-200-billion-dollar-gamble If you equate passion with how much large companies invest in the overall business I guess the "passion" of footballing fans must have increased by over ten times compares to the last World Cup, not because more people watched it, cherished what they saw, but because this World Cup is going cost more money. You can throw around the those large numbers all you want. In the end Brood War players are making a nice living, being loved and being watched by thousands of fans. You seem to be more concerned whether it is a sound business model for the investors. Are you concerned that not enough people are harvesting more money off the talents of our heroes, or are you boasting the fact that it easy easier for Starcraft 2 to strike a partnership deal with Blizzard when using their games to host a tournament? I'm saying in my opinion, if people have passion in a game, they would invest more money in it to create more tournaments. Like our Chinese people love Warcraft 3, so there are 51 events of $550k prize from 2016 to today. No partnership and no prize support from Blizzard. Isn't that really hard to understand?
China has the largest online gaming population in the world, and is probably in posession of the largest market in terms of e-Sports consumers. What are you stating apart from the fact that China doesn't host Brood War tournaments to the scale of other e-Sports titles?
I guess by your criteria Qatar is more passionate for football than Brazil by a country mile. More investment equals more passion, right?
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On August 01 2017 09:26 [F_]aths wrote:
SC2 did some things wrong in my opinion, for example Protoss building shapes are no longer that unique than in SC1. And the deathball issue is present in both casual and pro games. But I think the memory of BW is much better than it actual was.
Nope, it's actually as good to watch as I remmembered.
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On August 03 2017 19:05 nighcol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 19:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On August 03 2017 18:24 nighcol wrote:On August 03 2017 16:27 duke91 wrote:100% of BW funding comes from sponsors or fans. Don't really want to get into this pissing match but I highly doubt this is true. I'd be very surprised if Blizzard isn't supporting ASL. Blizzard has never supported ASL. It might change since they are releasing remastered, but Blizzard has never supported any broodwar tournaments before. Mostly they ignored Korea, then tried convert BW tournaments to SC2 once SC2 was released. How do you know this?
I don't understand why you think Blizzard has ever funded a BW tournament.
Your standard of evidence required is backwards. There nothing to presuppose that they have, and everything to that they never had. I can't prove they they haven't, other than that Blizzard would be excercising unusual restraint in not slapping their logo all over ASL, that they had no marketing investment whatsoever over in any BW tournament. Maybe they are doing some secretive offshore money channelling into ASL. I don't know. I might as well turn the question round to you. Why do you think Blizzard is funding ASL? Do you have access to Blizzard and ASL accounts?
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On August 03 2017 20:42 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I don't understand why you think Blizzard has ever funded a BW tournament.
Your standard of evidence required is backwards. There nothing to presuppose that they have, and everything to that they never had. I can't prove they they haven't, other than that Blizzard would be excercising unusual restraint in not slapping their logo all over ASL, that they had no marketing investment whatsoever over in any BW tournament. Maybe they are doing some secretive offshore money channelling into ASL. I don't know. I might as well turn the question round to you. Why do you think Blizzard is funding ASL? Do you have access to Blizzard and ASL accounts?
I wasn't demanding proof, just asking you what you're going by since you were making statements that made it seem like you have absolute certainty they never have. Blizzard branding is present at ASL (so they kinda have slapped their logo in there...) and they have advertised ASL on their websites and Battle.net. They clearly support the SC2 tournament by Afreeca. They have in more recent times started valuing the interest Koreans still show for BW as is evident by what they've done with SC Remastered.
Those things are mostly what has made me think it's likely they'd be supporting ASL but I'm not saying that's a fact. You can easily be less optimistic and say it's merely possible but I don't know if it's reasonable to say there's no chance in hell.
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On August 03 2017 13:00 Jealous wrote:
^ As much as that makes a great story, that's all it really seems like. A story you wove with little to no evidence and a lot of biased conjecture. I don't know that much about the design process of SC2 besides what was proposed for each expansion and some of the more major drama/stagnant periods, so I understand that some of that is partially true but when you start making inferences about the intelligence of various people I almost lol'd.
I don't doubt it's controversial. You can lol all you want, but to lead an incredibly complex game like SC, you need to be very smart. You can't just be someone who, for example, looks at a unit like Swarm Host and says 'this is cool, zerg will have a unit they can siege with and it's very zergy, because it makes a lot of little zergs'. There is a long thought process that needs to happen for a game like SC that wasn't a part of C&C or DoW, there needs to be an understanding of how a meta develops, how top players will use the unit, as it should be obvious to you that they will look for an edge. But then, as you said, you don't know much about SC2 development and history, so the detail in my post isn't something you can appreciate.
On August 03 2017 13:53 Arrinao wrote:
Yeah I have a very mixed feelings about that post. The intelligence remarks were pretty dumb. Also the two guys "in charge". Just because they were the ones interacting doesn't mean there weren't other behind the curtain. That DBro because he was the only one who could understand the game at competitive level... umm I doubt that. Ultimately though the whole idea of the "balance designer" is funny to me, at least in the sense of an RTS. Fiddling around with knobs is worthless if you have a bad base. Lead designer should be the one doing balance since he is also the one to remake something from the ground up if it doesn't fill the scheme. Why Dbro relegated that to something else, shows pretty much again that he wasn't the right man up there. The rest of the post... well I can actually put my stamp over that. Especially at the fact that it was a cinderella to WoW. Pretty much the reason SC2 as a project was even conceived, I believe, was purely because of esports and the licensing fees tied to them, as a means of long term income, similar to WoW subscriptions, or later microtransactions from their newer games. When the esports failed to "deliver" as the scene was dragged by LoL and Dota, SC2 was slowly becoming a bastard child. I could feel that at the LoTV release... there was not even half as much hype surrounding it as it used to be for Heart of the swarm. The campaign felt like it completely gave up on all the side stories and just rushed to finish the main one with the simple good and evil bullshit.
There is no separating reasons for why the developers weren't capable of making any sound decisions from what their ability and character traits were. Especially when you have this contrast with a brilliant man that is Rob Pardo (who, btw. also lead design on WC3 and WoW). I find it funny how quickly you choose to believe instead that there was this great team of designers that were nowhere to be seen. Let me expand on that for you. There were actually three multiplayer designers on SC2. The third of them was Matthew Cooper, who came to Blizzard together with David Kim from Dawn of War. You'd remember him from the early Battle Reports? Unfortunately, his impact was negligible, so they quickly moved him to work on Heroes of the Storm. You can look at the credits if you want. There were a total of 12 of at least partial designers on the game (some of them were technical designers, you can look up google on what that job is), but the majority of them worked on the campaign, while the rest worked on systems. If you watch the BlizzCon panels, you'll see most of them and you can listen to what their role was and what they focused on. I don't doubt they occasionally threw in some ideas for units, often meant for the campaign, but they were neither the ones who did multiplayer design nor made any decisions pertaining to it, of that I'm quite sure. All decision making and the bulk of design for multiplayer were Browder and Kim. Please note, that while David Kim was hired as a balance designer, it was never his true role. He was a full designer on the game, that much is also obvious from his interviews and panels.
As for why SC2 was conceived: I think it came from the right place. Wanting to make another great RTS, after that team was done with WC3, SC2 was the logical next step. It would sell, it wouldn't require any additional resources the way WoW did. I think that was the thought process since the beginning, so they never revised it. They never got that Korea wasn't the only place where eSports existed and could exist. And they didn't care to find out and update their thinking either way. The approach was "we make the game, let the players do with it what they like. If they make big tournaments, cool, we'll go, do some good PR there, have a fun weekend, stop at that." I mean, that's what they even said publicly all the time.
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On August 03 2017 21:12 nighcol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 20:42 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I don't understand why you think Blizzard has ever funded a BW tournament.
Your standard of evidence required is backwards. There nothing to presuppose that they have, and everything to that they never had. I can't prove they they haven't, other than that Blizzard would be excercising unusual restraint in not slapping their logo all over ASL, that they had no marketing investment whatsoever over in any BW tournament. Maybe they are doing some secretive offshore money channelling into ASL. I don't know. I might as well turn the question round to you. Why do you think Blizzard is funding ASL? Do you have access to Blizzard and ASL accounts? I wasn't demanding proof, just asking you what you're going by since you were making statements that made it seem like you have absolute certainty they never have. Blizzard branding is present at ASL (so they kinda have slapped their logo in there...) and they have advertised ASL on their websites and Battle.net. They clearly support the SC2 tournament by Afreeca. They have in more recent times started valuing the interest Koreans still show for BW as is evident by what they've done with SC Remastered. Those things are mostly what has made me think it's likely they'd be supporting ASL but I'm not saying that's a fact. You can easily be less optimistic and say it's merely possible but I don't know if it's reasonable to say there's no chance in hell.
I've never seen Blizzard marketing in any season of ASL. I do tend to not watch the adverts in the videos. Never once saw a Blizzard logo there. I don't visit their websites, but there have been over 15 years of BW tournaments. Never saw any blizzard funding there either. Are they funding ASL4? I don't know, and nor do you. So why are you telling us that you think Blizzard is funding BW tournaments when there is nothing to suggest that they have ever done so? They might fund a bw remastered tournament sometime in the future seeing as they are releasing a remastered version of bw, but at this point you are just superimposing your own version of reality over the past.
Can I be absolutely certain that Blizzard has never funded BW tournaments? Of course I can never be certain. It's the obvious inference from observation, without access to accounting records from Blizzard. For all I know Blizzard could have been secretly funnelling money through secretive means, but that is a level of certainty required of me far higher than of your suppositions from no grounds at all.
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On August 03 2017 22:52 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Never once saw a Blizzard logo there.
What? there are plenty of Blizzard logos in the ASL.
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LUL C'mon, some of guys here are blind. Blizz never ever supported any BW tournaments, post KeSPA scene left without anything after SC2 hit. All money comes from Afreeca (donations got big part) and sponsors, it's them who revived scene. Sonic tried to revive starleague as well before got bankrupt. All other minor offline and online leagues were held by support of fans who donated.
Maybe only now Blizzard will start supporting SC:R.
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On August 03 2017 11:38 JohnSmithII wrote:
The main reasons SC2 never stood a chance had little to do with outside factors. A lot of what was posted here were consequences. But they had roots. Cause and effect...
yes let's talk cause and effect.
outside factors always impact any video game's success. it always has to do with outside factors. game playing is done in one's spare time with spare money. you need a good economy otherwise the children are working from the time they are 14. while the adults are working non-stop. i got my 1st job at 14.
in 1965 South Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world. Had the economy stayed that way there'd be no RTS game play in South Korea. Brood War owes part of its success in South Korea to an economic boom that occurred in the late 60s, 70s, and 80s.
if the Russian economy were in the same state it was in the early 90s video games would be nothing in Russia.
state of technology is also a huge outside factor in teh success of any video game. the state of technology changed drastically during the RTS genre's history. ignoring the state of technology is to ignore the mindset of the prototypical video game consumer because that consumer sees the game through the lens of the current tech state.
outside factors are fundamental to the success of any video game because it's source of revenue is disposable income.
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Japan11285 Posts
Can you point us to a video where the Blizzard logo is not to be found as you claim?
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how much is SCR selling for again? is it $150? oh, its $15. it'll be interesting to see if this is enough to give the RTS genre another billion dollar franchise. Clash of Clans developer Supercell pulled in over 1 billion in 2016.
Clash of Clans eroded a lot of demand from RTS games. remember the 1990s when RTS was growing by leaps and bounds?
Welp, this looks a lot like ur typical 90s RTS game except you can play it any time.. any where. and you don't have to practice your micro 7 days a week to "keep ur skills up"...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iwHWawI.jpg)
it has all the fun parts the general consumer loved about 90s RTS games without the frustration of hitting the "s" key instead of the "a" key.
The changing state of technology not only wrecked SC2, but the entire RTS genre.
i suspect the next major entry in the SC franchise will not require a PC/Mac. Hell, David Kim and Dustin Browder could be working on it as i type this. Does anyone think the SC franchise's next major offering will be PC/Mac only?
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On August 03 2017 23:00 BossPurple wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 22:52 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Never once saw a Blizzard logo there. What? there are plenty of Blizzard logos in the ASL.
There are? Like I said I mostly watch the videos, so I choose to watch the games being played. If I watch it live, I generally alt tab and leave sound on and do something else till the game starts. I saw some of those funny korean adverts though. I always see afreeca logos and some other korean logos, even though I have no idea what those other companies do. Never saw a blizzard advert or logo, but if they are there, then I stand corrected and they are there. Just compare with other Blizzard tournaments. Heroes of the storm, SC2, overwatch. Blizzard is everywhere there. Their adverts, their marketing. What is in BW? But, in the end, I am being asked to prove a negative. How exactly, am I suppose to prove that Blizzard does not fund ASL? None of us has access to their records, and observation indicates that Blizzard has never funded BW tournaments. Where does this baseless claim that blizzard has funded ASL come from?
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![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/thumb/7/71/ASL_finals_venue2.jpg/450px-ASL_finals_venue2.jpg)
Bottom right.
Blizzard logo does of course not equal Blizzard sponsorship.
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EPT
