EPT1 year since Life has been arrested - Page 18
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engesser1
264 Posts
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
The throwing CS:GO players: They are banned for life (huhuhu) by valve. They will never be able to play a valve sponsored event. All other big organisations, who want to work with valve togeather, ESL, FaceIT, Dreamhack, ELEAGUE and so on banned them too forever. The throwers (AZK, steel, dazed and swag from ex IBP were the most prominent ones) cant play compeitive CS:GO outside of real minor tournaments. All they can do is either switch games (like AZK plays overwatch for liquid) or stream CS:GO on twitch. The life = viewers = sponsors = cool things: Sponsors sponsor esports not because they sell +3 telecom contracts with it, but because they do brand building. They want to be connected to the minds of the young esport followers, youthen their brand and get promotional material, people talking about them and looking modern. What is the worst that can happen? Being linked to something corruptive, someone acting illegal by a crime that is heavily tabued in South Korea. Nobody wants to be connected to this. Life might mean 1000 viewers more, but he also means less sponsors, not more. Espeically esport sponsorships in non prime games are still mostly driven by passion of a few workers in the companies, not by numbers and ROI. These ones would pull away as fast as they can. Yeah, maybe Fanobet, b.win or fucking t.martin will start sponsoring CS:GO cups, but is that what you want? Just ask yourself how afreeca felt, when they swapped their player with KT to get life as a designated ace player... only that he gets arrested one day later by the police for matchfixing. I bet really fucking great for the continuity of their SC II team. If he would be so good for your viewership and bring your sponsors, one of the one million smaller onlinecups that started to exist would have tried to invite him to play there. Tell my why this does not happen? Kespa is gone, these cups are not affilated to anything big in the scene. Lifetime SC II esports ban compareable to head on a pike. This is so stupid that it makes me laugh everytime I read it. You people are acting like his sentence was 1000 years of prison and if he is not dead then, getting piked. His sentence was 2 years on probation, 80.000$ payment and the lifetime ban by Kespa, thats it. He is now free to do everything he wants, except playing professional Starcraft II. Its like saying a rotten Doctor, who's licence got removed by the gouvernment and is not allowed to treat patience in any way, would be getting put his head on a pike. Would you like to be treated by him? Or a teacher who is forbidden to teach at any school because of certain crimes, would you want him to teach your children in a school? A corrupt cop, who gets money to look away from the drug traffing in his reach, a crime without victim, gets removed of the duty forever, would you call for second chance? These people are all getting a second chance, just not in the branches they fucked up so massivly that its unreasonable to allow them to work there again. The rotten doctor, the to much in children interested teacher, the corrupt cop, the matchfixing esportler, nothing stops them to take their second chance and find a new job, a new life outside of the branches they misstreated like garbadge. Life has all the second chances in the world, he can enlist in the army, redo his missed education, find a job, a partner for a famliy, 99,9999% of his life are still open, just this tiny little spot, SC II esport, is closed for him. But lets all be real here: You dont want a second chance for life, you want a blank check for him. Else there would be the 1 year since 4B was banned, 1 year since Yoda was banned threads. But they arent here, even tho their crimes could be watched with less harshness, as both of them had a forcing, misstreating element with their coach in this, while Life, at least as what is out in public, did it for pure money gain. You just want to see life back, nomatter what he has done, no matter what opportunities he now has everywhere else. And now, bring up the past of my country to wipe away what I said, I am certainly 71 years old so I was part of it as a new born child. | ||
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Hildegard
Germany348 Posts
However, when pushing for harsh punishments keep in mind that it could mean losing something significant. Life was one of the most promising players SC2 ever had and the loss of not having him anymore is severe. | ||
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Phaenoman
568 Posts
On March 14 2017 20:58 Hildegard wrote: However, when pushing for harsh punishments keep in mind that it could mean losing something significant. Life was one of the most promising players SC2 ever had and the loss of not having him anymore is severe. You can talk about the general punishment in case of a certain crime, but popularity should not be an argument to lower any punishment. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On March 14 2017 20:58 Hildegard wrote: Pep Guardiola was caught using doping as a player. Guardiola was also cleared of his charges and declared not guilty years later which I don't think is going to happen with Life. Also if he had been banned for life it would have likely been a ban as a player, not any other position. The referee Robert Hoyzer was banned for life from refereeing but he is allowed to be a player, manager, etc. So it's different from getting banned by KeSPA. | ||
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Hildegard
Germany348 Posts
On March 14 2017 21:06 Phaenoman wrote: You can talk about the general punishment in case of a certain crime, but popularity should not be an argument to lower any punishment. I wasn't referring to popularity, sorry if that wasn't clear. I meant we don't know how he would have influenced the scene in the years to come. On March 14 2017 21:13 Elentos wrote: Guardiola was also cleared of his charges and declared not guilty years later which I don't think is going to happen with Life. Also if he had been banned for life it would have likely been a ban as a player, not any other position. The referee Robert Hoyzer was banned for life from refereeing but he is allowed to be a player, manager, etc. So it's different from getting banned by KeSPA. I didn't know Guardiola was cleared. Good point. Is Life banned from being a coach or commentator as well or just as player? | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On March 14 2017 21:30 Hildegard wrote: I didn't know Guardiola was cleared. Good point. Is Life banned from being a coach or commentator as well or just as player? I'm pretty sure he was banned in general. Taking Prime's headcoach for reference, who was also banned because of matchfixing. But I have no idea if KeSPA can actually ban people from commentating. | ||
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SKNielsen1989
174 Posts
On March 14 2017 21:06 Phaenoman wrote: You can talk about the general punishment in case of a certain crime, but popularity should not be an argument to lower any punishment. It's not about popularity, it's about greatness - but maybe your mind is just too simple to appriciate such a thing. | ||
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Phaenoman
568 Posts
On March 14 2017 22:01 SKNielsen1989 wrote: It's not about popularity, it's about greatness - but maybe your mind is just too simple to appriciate such a thing. Don't start insulting. The same argument is applyable to talent, greatness, whatever you like. Just because someone is extraordinary at something doesn't mean he deserves special treatment. Talk about simple minds... | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12570 Posts
On March 14 2017 22:09 Phaenoman wrote: Don't start insulting. The same argument is applyable to talent, greatness, whatever you like. Just because someone is extraordinary at something doesn't mean he deserves special treatment. Talk about simple minds... You guys are misunderstanding the point. It's not about giving Life special treatment, it's about whether the treatment that we give to all of them is appropriate. I don't want Life allowed to come back because he's Life, I want him allowed to come back because I think he's been punished enough in relation to what he has done. When people mention all of the things he could be doing in the community if he was allowed to come back, it's not because he's Life, it's because he's not there. Any of the banned players could be doing things if they were there. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On March 14 2017 22:27 Nebuchad wrote: You guys are misunderstanding the point. It's not about giving Life special treatment, it's about whether the treatment that we give to all of them is appropriate. I don't want Life allowed to come back because he's Life, I want him allowed to come back because I think he's been punished enough in relation to what he has done. When people mention all of the things he could be doing in the community if he was allowed to come back, it's not because he's Life, it's because he's not there. Any of the banned players could be doing things if they were there. You maybe, but I'm pretty sure for most of the people it's exactly because he's Life. None of the other players got any threads dedicated to them. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12570 Posts
On March 14 2017 22:29 Elentos wrote: You maybe, but I'm pretty sure for most of the people it's exactly because he's Life. None of the other players got any threads dedicated to them. Hildegard specifically mentioned that it wasn't about Life being popular so they are misunderstanding his point. And it makes sense that people would focus on the most famous name when they're defending a cause, that's going to get more attention. I'd have to see people specifically say they want Life to be allowed back but not BByong to accept that this is an actual argument. | ||
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SKNielsen1989
174 Posts
On March 14 2017 22:09 Phaenoman wrote: Don't start insulting. The same argument is applyable to talent, greatness, whatever you like. Just because someone is extraordinary at something doesn't mean he deserves special treatment. Talk about simple minds... Personally, I dont think anyone deserves anything. It's simply a matter of weighting pros and cons; in this case: do we think the potential benefit of punishing Life to discourage other people from fixing matches outweight the loss of people not being able to witness potential inspired greatness from Life? | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On March 14 2017 22:32 Nebuchad wrote: Hildegard specifically mentioned that it wasn't about Life being Life so they are misunderstanding his point. And it makes sense that people would focus on the most famous name when they're defending a cause, that's going to get more attention. I'd have to see people specifically say they want Life to be allowed back but not BByong to accept that this is an actual argument. I'm not saying the other players are getting ignored because people don't want them to come back. I'm saying they're getting ignored because this topic is mostly brought up by people who only care about Life and don't give a singular shit about the others. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12570 Posts
On March 14 2017 22:38 Elentos wrote: I'm not saying the other players are getting ignored because people don't want them to come back. I'm saying they're getting ignored because this topic is mostly brought up by people who only care about Life and don't give a singular shit about the others. And as long as they don't oppose the others coming back, even if they don't care, that's a defensible position. As opposed to wanting Life to get special treatment because he's popular, which is not a defensible position. | ||
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Phaenoman
568 Posts
On March 14 2017 22:27 Nebuchad wrote: You guys are misunderstanding the point. It's not about giving Life special treatment, it's about whether the treatment that we give to all of them is appropriate. I don't want Life allowed to come back because he's Life, I want him allowed to come back because I think he's been punished enough in relation to what he has done. When people mention all of the things he could be doing in the community if he was allowed to come back, it's not because he's Life, it's because he's not there. Any of the banned players could be doing things if they were there. I don't think so. Not at all. There have been more players, but this thread is dedicated to Life. Tell me why? On March 14 2017 22:36 SKNielsen1989 wrote: Personally, I dont think anyone deserves anything. It's simply a matter of weighting pros and cons; in this case: do we think the potential benefit of punishing Life to discourage other people from fixing matches outweight the loss of people not being able to witness potential inspired greatness from Life? A crime is a crime and has punishments. Thinking about benefits and drawbacks, if it doesn't inlcude literal human lifes, is very questionable. | ||
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Hildegard
Germany348 Posts
I simply wanted to point out that handing life-long sentences comes at a price for the SC2 community. Life is a good example of that because he was one of the most promising players SC2 ever had, meaning his loss will affect us more. Please include the first sentence of this post, if you quote me. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12570 Posts
On March 14 2017 22:53 Phaenoman wrote: I don't think so. Not at all. There have been more players, but this thread is dedicated to Life. Tell me why? Because he's more famous, and issues tend to revolve around more famous people easier than they do around less famous people. But you already knew that, so I'm not sure what you're attempting to do. | ||
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Phaenoman
568 Posts
On March 14 2017 23:04 Nebuchad wrote: Because he's more famous, and issues tend to revolve around more famous people easier than they do around less famous people. But you already knew that, so I'm not sure what you're attempting to do. Ofc and that's the point. Don't tell me ppl that try to defend Life cared much about players in similar situations. If they did, if they had such principles, they'd start "fighting" before Life's case, not now. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12570 Posts
On March 14 2017 23:23 Phaenoman wrote: Ofc and that's the point. Don't tell me ppl that try to defend Life cared much about players in similar situations. If they did, if they had such principles, they'd start "fighting" before Life's case, not now. Your argument was that they wanted to lower the punishment because he's popular. You're now saying that they care about the issue because he's popular. Please be aware of what you're arguing. | ||
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