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[WoW] Battle for Azeroth - Page 496

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BfA Community Links:
GP : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/KKMpKPSlgd?region=EU&faction=Horde
TLEUH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/v9x5bAF3jD?region=EU&faction=Horde
TLEUA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/ALwgJnC5Wo?region=EU&faction=Alliance
TLNAH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/vPrmjJxiVnJ?region=US&faction=Horde
TLNAA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/YeZj7P0SXLn?region=US&faction=Alliance
Bnet: Bnet - https://blizzard.com/invite/amvLM0EubJv

On November 03 2016 06:57 GTR wrote:
I've created a Google Form/Spreadsheet for people to help add eachother.

Hopefully this will makes things easier for us to find people for Mythic+ runs and what not as opposed to sifting through 150+ pages of discussion.

Form
Spreadsheet

If a moderator could add this as a moderator note at the top it'd be appreciated.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22664 Posts
October 27 2018 01:07 GMT
#9901
Its a problem with storytelling.
Conflict often arises from 2 sides having a different view of what happened.
The only way to tell this in game is through telling 2 different stories, one of which is true and one which is false (or both can be partly true/false)

But this leads to confusion when you experience both viewpoints. Something that doesnt happen in other mediums of story telling.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-27 05:00:48
October 27 2018 01:15 GMT
#9902
+ Show Spoiler +
There's "he said, she said" and then there are dudes literally committing genocide in front of the player character
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Warri
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany3208 Posts
October 28 2018 00:25 GMT
#9903
https://www.wowhead.com/news=288209/a-look-at-the-tank-changes-in-8-1-so-far?webhook/a-look-at-the-tank-changes-in-8-1-so-far
Oh would you look at that, they made HotP heal relative to the targets missings health again rather than the casters. Sadly, if it stays on GCD, you still can't afford to cast it on others.
The other changes are a bit disappointing. Brew basically unchanged since ISB is 100% uptime and same for DK since bone shield is 100% uptime. DK only loses a bit survival on huge pulls but not enough to call it a nerf tbh.
Dont know a thing about warriors so i cant comment on that.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-28 03:23:44
October 28 2018 02:34 GMT
#9904


Stuff looks tuned ez (but not completely irrelevant due to solid health pools) at low levels atm! I'm curious to play through 1-120 again to see how stuff handles after squish 2.0 and the additional tuning / stealth fixes.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
October 28 2018 03:39 GMT
#9905
On October 28 2018 09:25 Warri wrote:
https://www.wowhead.com/news=288209/a-look-at-the-tank-changes-in-8-1-so-far?webhook/a-look-at-the-tank-changes-in-8-1-so-far
Oh would you look at that, they made HotP heal relative to the targets missings health again rather than the casters. Sadly, if it stays on GCD, you still can't afford to cast it on others.
The other changes are a bit disappointing. Brew basically unchanged since ISB is 100% uptime and same for DK since bone shield is 100% uptime. DK only loses a bit survival on huge pulls but not enough to call it a nerf tbh.
Dont know a thing about warriors so i cant comment on that.


Oh man, 1.5% less staggered damage, Brewmaster is finished guys. /sarcasm

They're so stuck about that spec. Stagger can literally never be balanced correctly. If bosses are about big physical hits, brewmaster will always be the best raid tank in the game.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-28 07:06:41
October 28 2018 04:23 GMT
#9906
Soul Barrier for veng DH seems like an interesting mechanic in theory but falls apart in practice IMO (i've triple checked on how it actually works since bfa, it's not intuitive)

TL;DR it puts up a 12 second buff which provides a shield for 40k (16% of my HP). Each time you use a soul you get a "free" additional 8k shield on top of the regular heal provided by the buff. You get that 40k absorb from the shield and can often add 120k more from the "free" extra absorb generated by soul consumption.

The main problem with it is that unlike the legion design, if the shield hits 0 then you instantly lose the buff and stop getting the bonus heal/absorb.

Sometimes you can keep it up for the full 12 seconds (30 sec CD), other times you press shield and half a global later it's gone before you can do anything which means losing a huge fraction of the CD's value.

To prevent that as much as possible you'd ideally use it during active mitigation, with 4-5 souls up already and fracture+immo available to quickly increase the shield but it's awkward to actually get to that point in a fight where you have the threat and resources to put a good shield up - you're usually using Fracture, Immo and Souls to establish threat and stay alive during the pull.

It works much better stacked with the other (low uptime!*) active mitigation because when you put the shield up without it you're likely to get smacked once by a boss or a pack of mobs and instantly lose the buff so that it can't do its job - you need to use your first mitigation to ensure that the second mitigation isn't mostly wasted. That keeps you alive very well for a while, but now you're like 12 seconds into the fight with no mitigation and everything on cooldown which is not exactly a great situation.

*30% is considerable uptime for active mitigation but in this case it feels very low because of how squishy you are without it. A lot of the time it's like.. do you have demon spikes up, or are you kiting? I've stood my ground way too often against a pack of like 3 mobs in a level 10 and died to melee hits in 380 gear



Rough EHP figures for my char with and without DS just taking into account HP, Armor, Dodge and Parry:

520.9k base

1134.9k DS (218% of baseline)

That is one hell of a bump and understandable why we can tank pretty solidly for 12 seconds or so at a time and then turn into wet paper. It'd be a lot more fun IMO if the baseline EHP was higher - maybe DS should give +50% or +70% EHP rather than +118%.

An increased uptime would also help to reduce those instances where you have to make the choice between running or dying in the middle of the fight but wouldn't be strictly necessary if you weren't so weak outside of DS; it's the combination of requiring the mitigation to be up yet not having uptime that is problematic and BFA has pushed that extreme more than any other expansion AFAIK.

Metamorphosis adds less EHP than Demon Spikes with a quarter of the already low uptime, it's far less relevant to the spec than it used to be
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
October 28 2018 14:43 GMT
#9907
what is the good horde outpost to upgrade? i transferred back to horde and im not gonna waste resources doing all of them for beer, scrapper, etc. just want to do whichever one is actually helpful like the fast mount that alliance has

also noticing that the alliance team of followers at the mission table is better than the horde team. on the alliance team, the follower that reduces time by 50% also has a flat 15% bonus to success. then there's another one that has 40% to bonus loot. and then for 3rd, you can almost always get it to 200% with one guy or another depending on what kind of troops there are to counter. the only time when you dont get 200% is when there are no troops to counter so you dont get that bonus from 3rd guy

horde doesn't have this awesome combo of basically always getting 200% and 50% reduced time
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
October 28 2018 16:56 GMT
#9908
The one that has the super fast "mount" upgrade is south west of Stormsong.

Not as useful as the Crawg guy for Alliance to go to Uldir.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Spicy_Curry
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States10573 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-28 22:09:41
October 28 2018 22:08 GMT
#9909
veng dh isn't the greatest atm but the fact that you can reset last resort by dying is pretty bonkers

also the last 2 weeks have made me want to stop playing because the affixes are so bad in M+
High Risk Low Reward
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-29 07:38:03
October 28 2018 22:51 GMT
#9910
On October 29 2018 07:08 Spicy_Curry wrote:
veng dh isn't the greatest atm but the fact that you can reset last resort by dying is pretty bonkers

also the last 2 weeks have made me want to stop playing because the affixes are so bad in M+


Mathematically it's not bad, it's just not fun in that way because of playstyle and mechanical issues


Same there, dead group finder as well.

I don't understand the obsession for rogue skips; so many groups on like underrot and freehold that will only take a rogue because they want to shroud the first part of the instance trash on a tyrannical week. Even if it were a lot harder you could just invis pot it lol, nobody is blowing 400g potions every minute to speed up your level 10 run so not being able to pot for 10 minutes after the invis isn't important.

Not as useful as the Crawg guy for Alliance to go to Uldir.


It takes longer to fly to the Crawg and then take it to Uldir than it does to just walk to Uldir

--

After getting no items from ~20 farm normal expeditions i just got 4 items from my first 2 runs on Heroic. I guess it's highly likely that they stealth nerfed normals after it was figured out that they dropped more. Heroic and Mythic spawn the events a lot less often though!
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-29 15:44:55
October 29 2018 15:41 GMT
#9911
i'm enjoying these affixes. explosive is a joke (except when everything was broken on tuesday but then they hotfixed all the broken stuff). honestly it's fun for me bopping the explosives. bolstering is pretty much a joke for any normal group that doesn't pull multiple packs. i'm enjoying actually getting to do damage as a healer and not ever running low on mana.

certain bosses on high enough keys are always gonna be hard on tyrannical weeks but that's a fundamental aspect of mythic+ imo

the community perception on which dungeons are hard and things like "needing" a rogue are pretty annoying when it actually leads to having trouble making groups. i agree with cyro that people overreact. but i would add that a few of the popular skips involve mounting up while the rogue uses sprint so invis pot is not a true replacement

really not looking forward to bursting/quaking as a healer. it's just so annoying and unfun. i think they're affixes that are easier to time but it personally feels more stressful and unfun to heal. can't drink for 4 seconds after every pack AND quaking will randomly interrupt drinking as well. i might actually use mana potions, idk. i'll have to check how much they cost.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
October 29 2018 16:15 GMT
#9912
On October 28 2018 13:23 Cyro wrote:
Soul Barrier for veng DH seems like an interesting mechanic in theory but falls apart in practice IMO (i've triple checked on how it actually works since bfa, it's not intuitive)

TL;DR it puts up a 12 second buff which provides a shield for 40k (16% of my HP). Each time you use a soul you get a "free" additional 8k shield on top of the regular heal provided by the buff. You get that 40k absorb from the shield and can often add 120k more from the "free" extra absorb generated by soul consumption.

The main problem with it is that unlike the legion design, if the shield hits 0 then you instantly lose the buff and stop getting the bonus heal/absorb.

Sometimes you can keep it up for the full 12 seconds (30 sec CD), other times you press shield and half a global later it's gone before you can do anything which means losing a huge fraction of the CD's value.

To prevent that as much as possible you'd ideally use it during active mitigation, with 4-5 souls up already and fracture+immo available to quickly increase the shield but it's awkward to actually get to that point in a fight where you have the threat and resources to put a good shield up - you're usually using Fracture, Immo and Souls to establish threat and stay alive during the pull.

It works much better stacked with the other (low uptime!*) active mitigation because when you put the shield up without it you're likely to get smacked once by a boss or a pack of mobs and instantly lose the buff so that it can't do its job - you need to use your first mitigation to ensure that the second mitigation isn't mostly wasted. That keeps you alive very well for a while, but now you're like 12 seconds into the fight with no mitigation and everything on cooldown which is not exactly a great situation.

*30% is considerable uptime for active mitigation but in this case it feels very low because of how squishy you are without it. A lot of the time it's like.. do you have demon spikes up, or are you kiting? I've stood my ground way too often against a pack of like 3 mobs in a level 10 and died to melee hits in 380 gear



Rough EHP figures for my char with and without DS just taking into account HP, Armor, Dodge and Parry:

520.9k base

1134.9k DS (218% of baseline)

That is one hell of a bump and understandable why we can tank pretty solidly for 12 seconds or so at a time and then turn into wet paper. It'd be a lot more fun IMO if the baseline EHP was higher - maybe DS should give +50% or +70% EHP rather than +118%.

An increased uptime would also help to reduce those instances where you have to make the choice between running or dying in the middle of the fight but wouldn't be strictly necessary if you weren't so weak outside of DS; it's the combination of requiring the mitigation to be up yet not having uptime that is problematic and BFA has pushed that extreme more than any other expansion AFAIK.

Metamorphosis adds less EHP than Demon Spikes with a quarter of the already low uptime, it's far less relevant to the spec than it used to be


I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like this. The way I have been tanking, after watching some Method dude stream has been:

1. Jump in, spikes right before damage
2. immo + fracture
3. Spirit Bomb
4. Jump away
5. Wait for CDs to go back, then do it all again

Kiting and jumping around just doesn't feel like tanking. It feels like I am kinda gimmicky. It works well, since DHs are able to quickly accumulate a lot of AOE threat. But I don't feel like a tank the same way I felt like a tank on my DK when I played WOTLK. Then again, I was only ever doing heroic dungeons in WOTLK. Doing Mythic+8 on my DH is probably a lot harder than heroics in WOTLK.

I guess it is kinda fun...I just like feeling super thick and beefy. DHs are just not thick and beefy. But if every tank did everything the same way, that'd be no fun, right?
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-29 17:16:15
October 29 2018 17:08 GMT
#9913
On October 30 2018 00:41 NonY wrote:
i'm enjoying these affixes. explosive is a joke (except when everything was broken on tuesday but then they hotfixed all the broken stuff). honestly it's fun for me bopping the explosives. bolstering is pretty much a joke for any normal group that doesn't pull multiple packs. i'm enjoying actually getting to do damage as a healer and not ever running low on mana.

certain bosses on high enough keys are always gonna be hard on tyrannical weeks but that's a fundamental aspect of mythic+ imo

the community perception on which dungeons are hard and things like "needing" a rogue are pretty annoying when it actually leads to having trouble making groups. i agree with cyro that people overreact. but i would add that a few of the popular skips involve mounting up while the rogue uses sprint so invis pot is not a true replacement

really not looking forward to bursting/quaking as a healer. it's just so annoying and unfun. i think they're affixes that are easier to time but it personally feels more stressful and unfun to heal. can't drink for 4 seconds after every pack AND quaking will randomly interrupt drinking as well. i might actually use mana potions, idk. i'll have to check how much they cost.


Have you run with pugs since you switched ?

Ive spent more time leveling alts than I have running M+ this week. I just dont trust the group finder anymore there is such a dearth of good players signing up for even 10's 11's I cant wait for 1 hour to make a solid grp.

And alot of the successful runs I am having to work overtime. In a sense its nice because the more challenging it is it keeps you sharp and improves your play. But sometimes its also nice to just coast just to flex a bit. And its certainly not fun to have to it at like 10-11.


+ Show Spoiler [ Shitty NA Alliance Exhibit A] +

Like here is an example from a 10 TD that I took just before wolf boss, because I felt like I was having to do way to much on orbs. Not even the full dungeon by the end I was so exhausted carrying the orb killing I just wanted to go to sleep. Yes its somewhat easier for me, but I was getting stretched to the very limit of my mobility cooldowns and awareness to catch everything.

And it would be fine if this was the exception but like it feels almost standard to get people who have inflated scores from lazy affixes to then get something they have to do and trying to coast through that aswell. Never ever had this issue on horde.

[image loading]

Granted I ran mostly with guild and high skilled players, but still even if we pulled a pug here or there it was rare that it turned out badly.

And the other half of the time Im playing with friends who just arent very good and I have to tank people avging 8-9k dps with only 1 or 2 of them actually pulling their weight..

That part is fun because the point is to just do stuff and stay in touch with buddies scattered all over, but Im not gonna lie there are points where I laugh it off but it starts to wear on you when something you complete on your own in 20 mins takes like an hour.











arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
October 29 2018 18:27 GMT
#9914
I felt like this week was one of the easier ones, only boss i had trouble on(although only key i was doing) was the 2nd boss of Motherlode, but that just took a bit of editing strategy so the orbs didnt spawn everywhere at once. Though he would do the odd spawn like 10 at once it wasnt too bad.

I cant exactly be expected to be orb slayer since im playing a warlock and all anyway though lol.
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
October 29 2018 18:28 GMT
#9915
Yeah that's pretty rough. My group was much much better. The DH we pugged was doing almost nothing to explosives but the hunter was doing a lot. And then our little premade was me and the tank and a rogue, who were all paying attention and attacking explosives.

Affliction lock is really bad at dealing with explosives so doing 2 runs with them is rough. Honestly I wouldn't target them at all as affliction. So if a group is bringing affliction lock, presumably to help with the tyrannical bosses, then the other dps should be classes good at dealing with explosive. Brewmaster, rogues and prot paladin should all be doing better than that. Not sure about resto druid and holy priest.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
October 29 2018 18:32 GMT
#9916
On October 30 2018 03:28 NonY wrote:
Yeah that's pretty rough. My group was much much better. The DH we pugged was doing almost nothing to explosives but the hunter was doing a lot. And then our little premade was me and the tank and a rogue, who were all paying attention and attacking explosives.

Affliction lock is really bad at dealing with explosives so doing 2 runs with them is rough. Honestly I wouldn't target them at all as affliction. So if a group is bringing affliction lock, presumably to help with the tyrannical bosses, then the other dps should be classes good at dealing with explosive. Brewmaster, rogues and prot paladin should all be doing better than that. Not sure about resto druid and holy priest.

I think we were using sub rogue/arms warrior, so the orbs could be one shot as long as you didnt get multiple in a huge area anyway. Granted I was playing demo since i wasnt feeling like putting my brain to sleep with affliction, they still died too fast that even instant cast abilities to one shot them(and by that i mean demon bolt) wouldnt even reach them before the melee got them.

I agree with not swapping as affliction though, if you get off a dot tick i think something is going horribly wrong with your orb killing
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-29 19:58:54
October 29 2018 19:48 GMT
#9917
On October 30 2018 03:28 NonY wrote:
Yeah that's pretty rough. My group was much much better. The DH we pugged was doing almost nothing to explosives but the hunter was doing a lot. And then our little premade was me and the tank and a rogue, who were all paying attention and attacking explosives.

Affliction lock is really bad at dealing with explosives so doing 2 runs with them is rough. Honestly I wouldn't target them at all as affliction. So if a group is bringing affliction lock, presumably to help with the tyrannical bosses, then the other dps should be classes good at dealing with explosive. Brewmaster, rogues and prot paladin should all be doing better than that. Not sure about resto druid and holy priest.


Im ok with the affliction lock not burning orbs, thats totally ok and I had no beef with that and he was pulling his weight on bosses, thats expected. But the other two just blew my mind, because there were times were i would take a far explosive and then maybe spend a gcd or two on the pack itself just to see if they would switch and then end up like RKking 1 orb and blackouting the other and hoping it would crit or spend another TP to finish it off. Instead of a rogue that couldve just killed it while I was off in egypt handling the tougher one and spending those GCDs to AOE. And I even then dont mind being orb bitch if I wasnt also topping damage for the dungeon.

I've ran with holy if they have a cast to spare they can 1 shot crit orbs and I have friend who is really good with that and communicates when shes doing it, its actually quite life changing in terms of your efficiency as a grp through the dungeion when your grp is proactive. Theres nothing worse than having to sit and stare at an orb casting and abandon a FOF cast mid way because the tank or the melee dps couldnt be fussed.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-29 20:31:27
October 29 2018 20:23 GMT
#9918
Finding it quite awkward to solo orbs on Havoc. Most of the main damage abilities (eye beam, blade dance/tor, fel rush, fel barrage, throw glaive) do zero damage to orbs; we're left with demon's bite which can take 3 or 4 globals to kill 1 orb or Chaos Strike which costs a lot of fury yet often takes 2 globals now instead of the 1 that it took in Legion.

In Legion we had far more haste most of the time and got a soul from one shotting orbs with CS which refunded basically all of the fury cost and reduced eyebeam+stun CD by 5 seconds so that also made a huge difference for being able to handle most of them by yourself if necessary.

We're a 1.5 second GCD spec so an orb often taking 3 globals to get down is an eternity; many times there have been 3-4 orbs up at a time and i've tried to kill them all but been unable to get the last 1-2 before they exploded, especially if one or more didn't spawn in melee.

Has been a really hard and slow PUG week, i can see why it wouldn't be too bad for organized groups with good comps.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-29 20:27:41
October 29 2018 20:24 GMT
#9919
Having to interrupt FoF to kill an orb because nobody else is killing orbs would upset me. As a player who heals most of the time, I'd probably let the orb blow up and let the healer deal with it. Just too bad you can't karma during FoF haha

I guess I'll change my evaluation of explosive. Like most affixes, it can be a non-issue when the group handles it well or it can be a massive headache if the group doesn't handle it well. Looks like I'm lucky that I've got people who are eager to kill them and when we pugged a hunter he was on top of them as well. All you non-healers enjoy your bursting + quaking this week.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20345 Posts
October 29 2018 20:51 GMT
#9920
Explosive rated pretty harshly here https://www.wowhead.com/news=288248/jdotb-bfa-q-a-8-mdi-all-stars-weekly-affix-advice
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
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