EPTAnd a lot of top guilds sell runs for real money because they sold them for gold before and now have more gold then they know what to do with.
[WoW] Battle for Azeroth - Page 494
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BfA Community Links: GP : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/KKMpKPSlgd?region=EU&faction=Horde TLEUH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/v9x5bAF3jD?region=EU&faction=Horde TLEUA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/ALwgJnC5Wo?region=EU&faction=Alliance TLNAH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/vPrmjJxiVnJ?region=US&faction=Horde TLNAA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/YeZj7P0SXLn?region=US&faction=Alliance Bnet: Bnet - https://blizzard.com/invite/amvLM0EubJv On November 03 2016 06:57 GTR wrote: I've created a Google Form/Spreadsheet for people to help add eachother. Hopefully this will makes things easier for us to find people for Mythic+ runs and what not as opposed to sifting through 150+ pages of discussion. Form Spreadsheet If a moderator could add this as a moderator note at the top it'd be appreciated. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21648 Posts
And a lot of top guilds sell runs for real money because they sold them for gold before and now have more gold then they know what to do with. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
How they are managing it and such in terms of sanctioning people of wrong doing etc etc is ofcourse a reasonable thing to debate, but the issue isnt one that concerns me enough to have an opinion personally. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On October 26 2018 02:14 Rebs wrote: Yeah I think for them Gold carries are not a problem because its contained within the in game economy. But profiting monetarily from their product is a no go which is an OK enough distinction for me. How they are managing it and such in terms of sanctioning people of wrong doing etc etc is ofcourse a reasonable thing to debate, but the issue isnt one that concerns me enough to have an opinion personally. Well gold spenders buy tokens to get that gold and Blizzard earns 7 € per token bought / sold. Obviously they dont want to be cut out here. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
A lot of people have been asking for proof/additional information in the comments. I will present to you the case of our raider Eroka (banned for 6 months) (who has given me permission to post here): This raider has two toons at max level: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/frostmourne/Eroka (three heroic clears) https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/frostmourne/Erokajrii (one heroic clear, and sporadic bosses) Here are the logs to all four of this man's heroic clears. They are all guild runs. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LG69tfNCTaQPVYrB - Split 1 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4q8bDXydjcMzBYPg - Split 2 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2Mv6nPQ4NZtY7Tf3 - First G'huun kill as part of split 1/2 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KL4Mm6V21BHDthXz - Guild Uldir Week 2 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fj3qwTVaKW7y8HFN - Guild Uldir Week 3 As you can see, this encompasses ALL of Eroka's runs bar a few extra bosses on his rogue targeting gear. These are all progression clears with only guildies. One of these happened to be the sale for which he killed H Zul with us, and was subsequently banned for 6 months. He received no gold. He was unaware and received no benefit for the RMT. Why is this man banned? He CLEARLY has no part in any RMT. From a guy that was formerly wrongly permabanned: The only thing that saved my account was the fact that so many thousands of people were incorrectly banned at that time that they took a second look and realized their mistake. But it still cost my guild a good 60+ US ranks on Mythic Gul'dan. (If someone wants proof there are tons of blue posts archived at Wowhead/MMOChampion with all the details where Blizzard fully admits it was THEIR mistake.) But what if there hadn't been 5,000 other people in the same situation? What if it were just me, or a few dozen people? They wouldn't have given us any mind at all. It was eventually reversed but that was horribly stressful. I was one of the people who got hit in that banwave (and it was later reversed/I was given a couple weeks of game time... big whoop). I posted upthread about this bit: "When I tried to put in appeals, the response was honestly incredibly disappointing. I understand that they can't be "soft on crime" or whatever, but I got a nice GM who kinda slipped and revealed that he didn't have access to any of the "proof" and therefore couldn't repeal or review anything even if he wanted to. That banwave was done automatically and they won't even allow a human to review the evidence to evaluate if it was correct. The GM just gets a note in the system that says to tell us that "the ban has been 100% confirmed and any attempts to appeal will be denied, do not contact us about this again" and have to tell that to us. The irony of getting treated like a horrible dirty cheater then having them turn around with their tail between their legs and give me a couple weeks of game time..." It was pretty satisfying seeing all the people on Reddit and the WoW forums who were so quick to dismiss reports of incorrect bans have to eat their words, though. The most disappointing part is that, at least according to the GM I talked to, they don't even give their team any leeway to even review the evidence. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15664 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21648 Posts
On October 26 2018 02:15 Redox wrote: Blizzard was firmly against RMT's long before the WoW token existed.Well gold spenders buy tokens to get that gold and Blizzard earns 7 € per token bought / sold. Obviously they dont want to be cut out here. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
Actually I will just spoiler this whole thing as I went off on a little bit of a rant, some minor spoilers from the book are in here too. + Show Spoiler + While it was a pretty decent book, it just has me scratching my head all the more as to where the idea of Sylvanis being "morally grey" comes from. Pretty much everything I have now read and seen sets her up as a totally self-serving, power-hungry, cunning, and vile villain. She "cares about the Forsaken" but only as tools to keep her in power and stand as a defense for her own destruction. In the book she literally kills a decent sized group of her own people, pretty indiscrimenently. The main plot of Before the Storm was Anduin setting up a meeting between the Forsaken and Human families/loved ones as an attempt to heal the rifts between their people. A very small number of the Forsaken decide they would prefer to return to a life with their still living families and make an attempt to do so. Sylvanis sees this as a defection and murders all the Forsaken taking part in the meeting (even those that are attempting to return to her side). The only ones she doesn't kill are those who got disappointed by the meeting when their family was too afraid to actually go through with the meeting. Then there was this meeting Sylvanis had with her sisters. I haven't read the comic that depicts this meeting myself, but have seen it described on a couple of you-tube videos. The general gist was the 3 sisters meet, share their stories and plans, and attempt to cleanse a tower in the ghostlands that has some significance to them. I am probably missing some of the nuance, but in general Sylvanis seems to feel betrayed by her sisters due to the fact that they prefer to remain with the living and their new families/lives than come stay with her (or as it is hinted in the novel, become a Forsaken with her). She even had a trap set to have her sisters killed by some dark rangers, but ends up deciding not to murder them. So even the idea that she cares about her family seems like a stretch as she will only accept them if they will choose to come be with her/become like her. Not even going to rehash the events leading directly into BFA that were in game... but still the more I have dug into the story here the more I have no clue why anyone can see Sylvanis as anything but a villain these days. It's even hinted at in the book that Sylvanis wanted war all along, even before Azerite was discovered, as she suggests she wants to demolish Stormwind and raise the dead to make new forsaken. Now I don't think it's impossible for them to not have her character go off the deep end and become totally evil, but everything seems to point to her going that way. Even if she does turn around on a few points and become less filled with hatred she has done enough fucked up shit that she should probably be imprisoned. I don't know what they were thinking when they tried to push this "morally grey" idea as literally nothing supports that. In fact she is basically a stone's throw away from being Arthas 2.0 at this point imo. TLDR: How is Sylvanis anything but a evil bitch? What is left to even vuagly redeem her character anymore? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21648 Posts
On October 26 2018 04:21 Tictock wrote: Its basically the core of the complaint people have about the story. There is no realistic way they can redeem Sylvanas so we just have Garrosh 2.0. Horde leader goes berserk and has to be put down.So I wound up purchasing Before the Storm, the lead-in novel to BFA, on audiobook for a trip I had early this month and just got around to finishing it. So fair warning, if you don't care about the lore or story of WoW you should skip this post. Actually I will just spoiler this whole thing as I went off on a little bit of a rant, some minor spoilers from the book are in here too. + Show Spoiler + While it was a pretty decent book, it just has me scratching my head all the more as to where the idea of Sylvanis being "morally grey" comes from. Pretty much everything I have now read and seen sets her up as a totally self-serving, power-hungry, cunning, and vile villain. She "cares about the Forsaken" but only as tools to keep her in power and stand as a defense for her own destruction. In the book she literally kills a decent sized group of her own people, pretty indiscrimenently. The main plot of Before the Storm was Anduin setting up a meeting between the Forsaken and Human families/loved ones as an attempt to heal the rifts between their people. A very small number of the Forsaken decide they would prefer to return to a life with their still living families and make an attempt to do so. Sylvanis sees this as a defection and murders all the Forsaken taking part in the meeting (even those that are attempting to return to her side). The only ones she doesn't kill are those who got disappointed by the meeting when their family was too afraid to actually go through with the meeting. Then there was this meeting Sylvanis had with her sisters. I haven't read the comic that depicts this meeting myself, but have seen it described on a couple of you-tube videos. The general gist was the 3 sisters meet, share their stories and plans, and attempt to cleanse a tower in the ghostlands that has some significance to them. I am probably missing some of the nuance, but in general Sylvanis seems to feel betrayed by her sisters due to the fact that they prefer to remain with the living and their new families/lives than come stay with her (or as it is hinted in the novel, become a Forsaken with her). She even had a trap set to have her sisters killed by some dark rangers, but ends up deciding not to murder them. So even the idea that she cares about her family seems like a stretch as she will only accept them if they will choose to come be with her/become like her. Not even going to rehash the events leading directly into BFA that were in game... but still the more I have dug into the story here the more I have no clue why anyone can see Sylvanis as anything but a villain these days. It's even hinted at in the book that Sylvanis wanted war all along, even before Azerite was discovered, as she suggests she wants to demolish Stormwind and raise the dead to make new forsaken. Now I don't think it's impossible for them to not have her character go off the deep end and become totally evil, but everything seems to point to her going that way. Even if she does turn around on a few points and become less filled with hatred she has done enough fucked up shit that she should probably be imprisoned. I don't know what they were thinking when they tried to push this "morally grey" idea as literally nothing supports that. In fact she is basically a stone's throw away from being Arthas 2.0 at this point imo. TLDR: How is Sylvanis anything but a evil bitch? What is left to even vuagly redeem her character anymore? Most likely Blizzard will redeem her anyway in some really really stupid way. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
To me it looks like there will be no redemption for her and it seems like Blizzard is going a rather unconventional way with her story. It rather seems many people are upset because they fear they wont get to see redemption and a "good" Sylvanas. Also to me she has been unredeemable years ago already, and I think Blizzard realized that as well. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
I'd be a bit disappointed if they go a Garrosh 2.0 route, but I don't think they will. I am expecting something much more like Arthas 2.0 or something along those lines. I just think the issue atm is that there is all this stuff out in the open that she has done that is pretty f'ed up but Blizz is acting like there is still reasons why some of the Horde would follow/support her when really even her own people should be seriously questioning her validity as a leader right now. Garrosh at least commanded respect from the horde due to being warchief for years before he went bad, and he was an Orc so he got a bit more leeway for that. From the sounds of things though none of this is going to be addressed for a long time though as the story in 8.1 seems to be focused on strengthening our allegiances with the Zandalari and Kul-Tirans, though I suppose they may plant the seeds of what will come. Also to me she has been unredeemable years ago already, and I think Blizzard realized that as well. This is very true, it was pretty clear even back in WoD that this was probably going to be her path (minus becoming Warchief). Which is why it is even stranger that they keep acting like there is somehow something redeeming about her actions, but refuse to do anything to show it. Personally I thought maybe it was in her relationship with the Forsaken, but having gotten through the novel I see that is not even the case. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15664 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21648 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15664 Posts
On October 26 2018 06:06 Gorsameth wrote: There is some stuff from Wotlk about undead being immune to old god influences. That's why they had skeletons mining Saronite (which is old god blood). I have faith in old god engineering. They could figure SOMETHING out. Perhaps Azshara could throw something together?? I have faith in her. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On October 26 2018 05:53 Mohdoo wrote: Am I the only one who thinks Sylvanas has been subtly controlled by an old god or some other powerful creature for the past long ass time? A slow, deliberate work up to crazy warchief is a lot harder to stop than someone who goes crazy in 1 day. If an old god wanted to mess things up, they'd make sure the person they are controlling stays in power by never being too obvious. Yea, old god corruption was kinda my thought when I returned for the last bit of legion and saw the pre-release stuff. Problem is that Undead are supposed to be resistant to the old gods (the Litch King was supposed to be opposed to Yogg and vise versa, but it didn’t come across in-game). If this is the route they are going with the story I’d bet it is one of the forces of Death itself that has been guiding her and not an Old god. It would add up with how the “Loa” picked her to be warchief (I think we are supposed to have assumed Bonswandi is the Loa in question, but he has dialog stating he has a boss.) This is why I keep saying I see her going more Arthas 2.0 than Garrosh. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Blizzard has hotfixed Emissary Rewards in all regions to provide 2000 gold (up from 700) and 1600 AP (up from 1000). It would add up with how the “Loa” picked her to be warchief (I think we are supposed to have assumed Bonswandi is the Loa in question, but he has dialog stating he has a boss.) + Show Spoiler + The 8.1 content goes against that, saying that it was some unknown force that "picked" sylvanas and explicitly ruling out the involvement of a ton of people including the loa | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15664 Posts
On October 26 2018 06:28 Cyro wrote: Hooray! I started 120 with 32K gold. I am currently down to 12K gold. | ||
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
'Well their logs show sales from OTHER REALMS so they're CLEARLY RMT SALES because GOLD CAN'T BE TRADED CROSS REALM!" | ||
TheEmulator
28087 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Shifting gold onto mission table results in afk / alt army farming. More gold coming from the table means that less gold has to come from actually playing the game in order for the economy to be balanced. | ||
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