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United Kingdom20320 Posts
On December 08 2015 00:25 Spicy_Curry wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2015 15:01 Cyro wrote:
That reaver isn't progress, they're abusing a "trick" to have three trinkets up simultaneously (though arcane is a little bit broken regardless). Some guilds on my server have 2-4 mages using that "trick" to clear the raid faster every week (for gear etc) and for a big damage boost on progress fights, i'm sure there are many more elsewhere
WCL recognises that and tags a lot of them yellow Why does it even matter at this point?
Because there's still a lot of competition when only 0.2% of players have finished the tier. Same reason that wonky balance still matters, we're gonna be here for another 6 months. It's bad practice to completely abandon an expansion 50-70% of the way in. There are a ton of guilds who either can't abuse it or don't want to abuse it yet the others are running away with it, i doubt there will be even short term bans for intentionally abusing stuff like that on dozens of fights (which i really disagree with) but they should at least fix it promptly
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But i wont buy this game if the pvp just suck as it has sucked in pretty much every WoW expansion.
Dont give me that grind shit to gear. IT SUCK. IT STINK.
Make it skillwise even in 1v1, and fast paced.
And once and for all, ONE-SHOTTING someone is utterly disgusting gameplay wise.
WoW PVP has never been what you want but WOD is one of the further expansions from it
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daily reminder that blizzard killed pugs with the premade finder
and fuck pug leaders who insist on having a hardon for 2/4//9 comps
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United Kingdom20320 Posts
daily reminder that blizzard killed pugs with the premade finder
pugs ARE the premade finder
it was always like this, TBC pugs didn't do shit and WOTLK pugs were just way less efficient and not cross realm so you had little choice - and what's wrong with having some of the best comps?
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Who remembers GearScore?
People forming groups with strangers will always look for some shorthand for skill, it's a necessity. Unless Blizzard builds their own alternative to WarcraftLogs/Mr. Robot/whatever that's how it's always going to be.
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On December 08 2015 07:44 Seuss wrote:
Who remembers GearScore?
People forming groups with strangers will always look for some shorthand for skill, it's a necessity. Unless Blizzard builds their own alternative to WarcraftLogs/Mr. Robot/whatever that's how it's always going to be.
I was so lucky, I quit the game right before Gearscore became a thing. Honestly, my approach to PuGs is this: I invite everyone with reasonable gear, we pull the boss. If we win, I distribute loot, if we lose, I kick the 2 lowest DPS and/or everyone that fucked up a crucial mechanic, then reload. It can sometimes take a while, but getting rid of dead weight ASAP is by far the best way to get a successful pug, because after the first few bosses you usually have a solid group.
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United Kingdom20320 Posts
That's what we do, but we usually start with requirements like ilvl. If you grab 10 people out of a pool of 720+ you'll get much better numbers from people on average than if you pull them from 690+. There are a ton of i670-710 alts where people have no idea how to play, no ring etc.
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Because there's still a lot of competition when only 0.2% of players have finished the tier. Same reason that wonky balance still matters, we're gonna be here for another 6 months. It's bad practice to completely abandon an expansion 50-70% of the way in. There are a ton of guilds who either can't abuse it or don't want to abuse it yet the others are running away with it, i doubt there will be even short term bans for intentionally abusing stuff like that on dozens of fights (which i really disagree with) but they should at least fix it promptly
Yea the only two fights this actually matters is for zakuun and iron reaver which pretty much everyone agrees are free bosses. There is no way in hell that some extra dps at the start of archimonde mythic is going to help you out in the actually difficult phases. Besides its always been a shitshow between expansions when it comes to balance im surprised people forget so easily.
This has happened previously:
Warriors-> Vanilla
Rogues-> BC
Mages -> ICC 30%
Warlocks -> SOG 4/4
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i had 4th highest dk gearscore on frostmane back in the day at the end of wrath
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Italy12246 Posts
On December 08 2015 08:36 Spicy_Curry wrote:Show nested quote +Because there's still a lot of competition when only 0.2% of players have finished the tier. Same reason that wonky balance still matters, we're gonna be here for another 6 months. It's bad practice to completely abandon an expansion 50-70% of the way in. There are a ton of guilds who either can't abuse it or don't want to abuse it yet the others are running away with it, i doubt there will be even short term bans for intentionally abusing stuff like that on dozens of fights (which i really disagree with) but they should at least fix it promptly
Yea the only two fights this actually matters is for zakuun and iron reaver which pretty much everyone agrees are free bosses. There is no way in hell that some extra dps at the start of archimonde mythic is going to help you out in the actually difficult phases. Besides its always been a shitshow between expansions when it comes to balance im surprised people forget so easily. This has happened previously: Warriors-> Vanilla Rogues-> BC Mages -> ICC 30% Warlocks -> SOG 4/4
0/21/40 warlocks during BT and Sunwell, never forget
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On December 08 2015 08:15 Cyro wrote:
That's what we do, but we usually start with requirements like ilvl. If you grab 10 people out of a pool of 720+ you'll get much better numbers from people on average than if you pull them from 690+. There are a ton of i670-710 alts where people have no idea how to play, no ring etc.
There is no "pool of 720+" if you're kicking at least 3 people per attempt. People who are 720+ aren't pugging. Even if you somehow manage to get 720 people to fill the raid, you run out too quickly. You have to expand the ilvl if you're going to be cycling through people until you get a stable group. Item level only really counts towards the DPS/HPS floor and ceiling, but doesn't account for mechanics, raid awareness, and especially for healing efficiency.
On December 08 2015 09:01 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 08:36 Spicy_Curry wrote:Because there's still a lot of competition when only 0.2% of players have finished the tier. Same reason that wonky balance still matters, we're gonna be here for another 6 months. It's bad practice to completely abandon an expansion 50-70% of the way in. There are a ton of guilds who either can't abuse it or don't want to abuse it yet the others are running away with it, i doubt there will be even short term bans for intentionally abusing stuff like that on dozens of fights (which i really disagree with) but they should at least fix it promptly
Yea the only two fights this actually matters is for zakuun and iron reaver which pretty much everyone agrees are free bosses. There is no way in hell that some extra dps at the start of archimonde mythic is going to help you out in the actually difficult phases. Besides its always been a shitshow between expansions when it comes to balance im surprised people forget so easily. This has happened previously: Warriors-> Vanilla Rogues-> BC Mages -> ICC 30% Warlocks -> SOG 4/4 0/21/40 warlocks during BT and Sunwell, never forget
The old "Press 2 over and over again" build.
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United Kingdom20320 Posts
Yea the only two fights this actually matters is for zakuun and iron reaver
Not true at all
There is no way in hell that some extra dps at the start of archimonde mythic is going to help you out
Then why are people discussing all over the place how many healers to bring to meet DPS checks to phase archi in X condition? That's just on the last boss. It's a big deal wherever a damage boost in the first 20 seconds of the fight matters and it's free to do.
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There is no "pool of 720+" if you're kicking at least 3 people per attempt. People who are 720+ aren't pugging.
There actually are, i do a couple runs at least a few days a week as guild boosting ~5-10 people per run and pugging some. There are always 720+'s in the finder for archimonde. Mythic geared players are ~735-740 and there are dozens of 720's and hundreds of 710's
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On December 08 2015 09:39 Cyro wrote:Not true at all Show nested quote +There is no way in hell that some extra dps at the start of archimonde mythic is going to help you out Then why are people discussing all over the place how many healers to bring to meet DPS checks to phase archi in X condition? That's just on the last boss. It's a big deal wherever a damage boost in the first 20 seconds of the fight matters and it's free to do. ------ Show nested quote +There is no "pool of 720+" if you're kicking at least 3 people per attempt. People who are 720+ aren't pugging. There actually are, i do a couple runs at least a few days a week as guild boosting ~5-10 people per run and pugging some. There are always 720+'s in the finder for archimonde. Mythic geared players are ~735-740 and there are dozens of 720's and hundreds of 710's
Yeah, for Archimonde. You think they're queueing up like that for HFA -> Gore?
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United Kingdom20320 Posts
Nop but those ones are way way easier to pug
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On December 08 2015 10:16 Cyro wrote:
Nop but those ones are way way easier to pug
Yet it's still required to be 710-715 to do so.
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United Kingdom20320 Posts
On December 08 2015 11:28 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 10:16 Cyro wrote:
Nop but those ones are way way easier to pug Yet it's still required to be 710-715 to do so.
By a fraction of groups yeah. You can make your own group in about 3-10 minutes with i680 if the others are being unreasonable; there are a lot of people who feel the same way as you do out there. Unfortunately a majority of them are pretty shit but there are some good people mixed in
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What I dont get is why so many people try to make PUGs happen. On the servers I know lots of guilds are desperately looking for members. And because of the lack of applicants they accept people with like 20 item level less than the PUG groups.
And it is also not like guilds come with lots of social responsibilities these days. They are not much more than scheduled raids with recurring participants.
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On December 08 2015 09:39 Cyro wrote:Not true at all Show nested quote +There is no way in hell that some extra dps at the start of archimonde mythic is going to help you out Then why are people discussing all over the place how many healers to bring to meet DPS checks to phase archi in X condition? That's just on the last boss. It's a big deal wherever a damage boost in the first 20 seconds of the fight matters and it's free to do. ------ Show nested quote +There is no "pool of 720+" if you're kicking at least 3 people per attempt. People who are 720+ aren't pugging. There actually are, i do a couple runs at least a few days a week as guild boosting ~5-10 people per run and pugging some. There are always 720+'s in the finder for archimonde. Mythic geared players are ~735-740 and there are dozens of 720's and hundreds of 710's
Our guilds average ilvl when we killed archimonde was 725. Our average raid dps has almost doubled now that our raid ilvl is 740+ so thats why I say that 3 people who make up 20% of the opening burst is almost irrelevant. At this point you dont even need to play very well to clear the boss, you just need to refine your strategy and focus on staying alive. Its just really funny when people fail to accept the game as it is and choose to complain instead of adapting and utilizing what they are throwing a tantrum over. Also just because people are discussing shit all over the place doesnt make it useful. At this point you can 4 heal archimonde. That one extra healer affords you so much more than some pos playstyle that mages are forced to play to be competitive (with other mages, its all proportional). What do you even expect to happen? Mages no longer are able to swap tome for another trinket and your raid dps goes down by a "substantial" amount. Then the same people complain that they shouldve been buffed instead of nerfing mages.
RoR + WW never 4get
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On December 08 2015 13:11 Spicy_Curry wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 09:39 Cyro wrote:Yea the only two fights this actually matters is for zakuun and iron reaver Not true at all There is no way in hell that some extra dps at the start of archimonde mythic is going to help you out Then why are people discussing all over the place how many healers to bring to meet DPS checks to phase archi in X condition? That's just on the last boss. It's a big deal wherever a damage boost in the first 20 seconds of the fight matters and it's free to do. ------ There is no "pool of 720+" if you're kicking at least 3 people per attempt. People who are 720+ aren't pugging. There actually are, i do a couple runs at least a few days a week as guild boosting ~5-10 people per run and pugging some. There are always 720+'s in the finder for archimonde. Mythic geared players are ~735-740 and there are dozens of 720's and hundreds of 710's Our guilds average ilvl when we killed archimonde was 725. Our average raid dps has almost doubled now that our raid ilvl is 740+ so thats why I say that 3 people who make up 20% of the opening burst is almost irrelevant. At this point you dont even need to play very well to clear the boss, you just need to refine your strategy and focus on staying alive. Its just really funny when people fail to accept the game as it is and choose to complain instead of adapting and utilizing what they are throwing a tantrum over. Also just because people are discussing shit all over the place doesnt make it useful. At this point you can 4 heal archimonde. That one extra healer affords you so much more than some pos playstyle that mages are forced to play to be competitive (with other mages, its all proportional). What do you even expect to happen? Mages no longer are able to swap tome for another trinket and your raid dps goes down by a "substantial" amount. Then the same people complain that they shouldve been buffed instead of nerfing mages. RoR + WW never 4get
Who cares what difference it makes to a guild that has all content cleared? The question is obviously if it helps those that have not.
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On December 08 2015 13:17 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 13:11 Spicy_Curry wrote:On December 08 2015 09:39 Cyro wrote:Yea the only two fights this actually matters is for zakuun and iron reaver Not true at all There is no way in hell that some extra dps at the start of archimonde mythic is going to help you out Then why are people discussing all over the place how many healers to bring to meet DPS checks to phase archi in X condition? That's just on the last boss. It's a big deal wherever a damage boost in the first 20 seconds of the fight matters and it's free to do. ------ There is no "pool of 720+" if you're kicking at least 3 people per attempt. People who are 720+ aren't pugging. There actually are, i do a couple runs at least a few days a week as guild boosting ~5-10 people per run and pugging some. There are always 720+'s in the finder for archimonde. Mythic geared players are ~735-740 and there are dozens of 720's and hundreds of 710's Our guilds average ilvl when we killed archimonde was 725. Our average raid dps has almost doubled now that our raid ilvl is 740+ so thats why I say that 3 people who make up 20% of the opening burst is almost irrelevant. At this point you dont even need to play very well to clear the boss, you just need to refine your strategy and focus on staying alive. Its just really funny when people fail to accept the game as it is and choose to complain instead of adapting and utilizing what they are throwing a tantrum over. Also just because people are discussing shit all over the place doesnt make it useful. At this point you can 4 heal archimonde. That one extra healer affords you so much more than some pos playstyle that mages are forced to play to be competitive (with other mages, its all proportional). What do you even expect to happen? Mages no longer are able to swap tome for another trinket and your raid dps goes down by a "substantial" amount. Then the same people complain that they shouldve been buffed instead of nerfing mages. RoR + WW never 4get Who cares what difference it makes to a guild that has all content cleared? The question is obviously if it helps those that have not.
Thats exactly it. It doesnt help us but it does help you. So do it?
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EPT
