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United Kingdom20322 Posts
A lot of people seem to say it that way
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/S0s2RfS.png)
Blizz plz "new" traits?  I see what u did thar!
Wide Eyes (Rank 1) (New) Reduces the cost of Eye Beam by 5 Fury.
Wide Eyes (Rank 2) (New) Reduces the cost of Eye Beam by 10 Fury.
Wide Eyes (Rank 3) (New) Reduces the cost of Eye Beam by 15 Fury.
Wide Eyes (Rank 4) (New) Reduces the cost of Eye Beam by 20 Fury.
Wide Eyes (Rank 5) (New) Reduces the cost of Eye Beam by 25 Fury.
Wide Eyes (Rank 6) (New) Reduces the cost of Eye Beam by 30 Fury.
Wide Eyes (Rank 7) (New) Reduces the cost of Eye Beam by 35 Fury.
Wide Eyes (Rank 8) (New) Reduces the cost of Eye Beam by 40 Fury.
Interesting. With a fury bar of 130, a cost of 50 and a blind fury generation of 115 (t19-2p) you need to have ~50-65 fury to cast it without wasting resource gen which results in regular and significant overflow. With eyebeam cost being lowered from 50 to 25 by default and fury bar getting an extra +20 that range will be extended
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It occured to me earlier today that while M+ rewards are being buffed, there is still a ceiling for AP rewards at level 10. Doing mythic level 16 for example stuff has ~1.66x more health and damage than level 10(?) it's a lot slower even with no new affix. You're also likely to be doing worse keys and depleted keys so there will be a bit of a weird split between AP/legendary farming low mythic+ and gear farming high mythic+.
I think another ~1.25x AP increase at levels 15 and later 20 would fit better. We get 1.25x AP going from 4 to 7 and going from 7 to 10. They add an extra affix but they're "only" +3 levels instead of +5 which roughly makes up for it - farming 15's instead of 10's is night and day.
AK25 AP would then be:
200k at level 4
250k at level 7
312k at level 10
390k at level 15
488k at level 20
so a level 20 would be worth less than two 7's but levels 15-20+ would give something more appriciable over straight 10's.
And also the HP and Damage scaling by the same amount is a little bit iffy because our outgoing damage scales a lot faster than our health. As you get higher level m+ the dungeons bias away from difficulty in killing things and towards difficulty in staying alive until the difficulty of the dungeon becomes all about avoiding constant oneshot mechanics. I can see a change in the future so that enemy HP increases more quickly than enemy damage if this isn't adressed in another way (7.2 is reworking some stuff)
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Almost 8 resets over without legendary #5~ That's 7 weekly chests, 8-9 world bosses, ~54 emissaries, probably 140 raid bosses on normal-mythic and some mythic+ farming as well so the rate must be pretty low. I'm curious on a lot of exact implementation details for the drops
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My guild was raiding like crazy this week to progress fast in Nighthold. Nonsense imo since you are not better just because you raided more for a week. Not really fun to me when raids get that long.
Anyway Guldan hc is super annoying, especially as healer. For 8 min you are just bored and then bam it gets super crazy and it seems almost hopeless to try to heal that. We get barely past first Black Harvest and then the stacking of that soul debuff just starts. This long p1 and p2 before the actual difficulty starts makes progressing just so tedious.
I feel like my guild is not good enough for this and there will be many more hours of wiping. :/
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
My guild was raiding like crazy this week to progress fast in Nighthold. Nonsense imo since you are not better just because you raided more for a week. Not really fun to me when raids get that long.
Didn't you hear? The worth of a guild is entirely defined by how QUICKLY they kill the bosses (measured in days since launch), not what they're capable of or how many people kill themselves during/after progression 
I feel like my guild is not good enough for this and there will be many more hours of wiping. :/
Hey, 19 bosses on week 1 - sure the 20'th might take a little while
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On January 23 2017 09:37 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +My guild was raiding like crazy this week to progress fast in Nighthold. Nonsense imo since you are not better just because you raided more for a week. Not really fun to me when raids get that long. Didn't you hear? The worth of a guild is entirely defined by how QUICKLY they kill the bosses (measured in days since launch), not what they're capable of or how many people kill themselves during/after progression
Yeah it is stupid but at least when you do this during hc progress with flex raid you can have people leave or join the raid as they feel like or their time allows. So when I had enough I just left. And luckily I missed out on only 1 kill while missing a good part of the progress tries.
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Joined a pug at botanist hc as tank. First tried him without exp (just killed normal previously). Then killed elisande on try 2. Then we spent 7 hours on guldan and got him to 23% in our best try but now its just too late for people to continue. Hopefully we manage to get most of the good people back tomorrow and try to finish him.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
I have not done those bosses yet on HC, PUG lyfe is a bit too much. I did spend about four hours in various groups on Spellblade thingy and a few hours on tich and star dude after killing the first 3 + krosos, might get a few more kills before reset
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Oh yeah spellblade also took me like 5 hours with a bad semi guild group where i was about to go mad.
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Hmm we had so far the most wipes on botanist I think. Or maybe elisande. I expect gul'dan will take a lot more than that.
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On January 23 2017 10:51 Warri wrote:
Joined a pug at botanist hc as tank. First tried him without exp (just killed normal previously). Then killed elisande on try 2. Then we spent 7 hours on guldan and got him to 23% in our best try but now its just too late for people to continue. Hopefully we manage to get most of the good people back tomorrow and try to finish him.
Try 2 Elisande sounds indeed pretty good. Though my guild also needed less time for her than Botanist and Tichondrius. About 23% is also what we did multiple times on Guldan but this is just where the fight starts.
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Why though? There doesnt seem to be any change to normal and all abilities in p3 seemed manageable? Fire is pretty hard but with a proper strat i think its doable. Our problem was that we hardly reach p3 and never with all alive because bonds/eye combo kills people.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
The p3 abilities seemed to be undertuned on purpose on normal. I was worried about not having proper understanding / tactics down for them but it was fine for the vast majority of the raid to ignore them on normal mode. On HC maybe not so much.
Anyone else noticed a lot less performance around auriel's area? Seems highly CPU limited and poorly performing for me and i've seen some other comments about it.
How are you guys doing with legendary drops 5, 6, 7 on a single character?
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Yeah maybe I am overestimating p3 since I saw other guilds not taking too long with it once they reached it. Problem we had is simply the pure dmg of black harvest, fire and stacking soul dot as well as coordinating releasing souls at right time.
Bond / eye does not seem like a big problem, simply dont break bonds when eyes are incoming. You can really take your time with breaking them. Also healer action button helps if it happens.
On January 24 2017 02:25 Cyro wrote:
How are you guys doing with legendary drops 5, 6, 7 on a single character?
I have 4 but am fine with it, 4th one was only 4 weeks ago. Also Nightwell loot treated me nicely, like 905 relic.
Still wondering if chance drops after the 4th
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
I think it's a question of how much the chance drops for each one rather than if it drops at all.
If they're not actively lowering the droprates then there might be some other effects causing that.
With 8 legendaries on the loot table the chance could naturally be 2x higher than when you have 4 legendaries on the loot table, etc - that would be a natural consequence of a system that treats each legendary as a seperate item but it would not happen if there was a "legendary drop" proc which then dice rolled an item out.
There's some clear manipulation on top of that to speed up the earlier legendaries but very hard to say anything conclusive about 4+.
There may also be some effects which were unintentional even to blizzard, you can look at the 50 essences of aman'thul quest for an example of that. They treated it like a different style of quest so that they could offer it specifically to people with 910 legendaries but in treating it that way instead of as a repeatable hand-in quest with items in your bag they caused any essences that you obtained over 50 to be deleted when you hand in the quest.
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Well fwiw my 4th leg was the fastest of all. :D
Yeah I know variance etc.
Shouldnt by now someone have datamined and analyzed legendary drops?
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
There are some people analyzing a lot of droprate data but it's tricky to say stuff even with that. Sometimes the droprates change without documentation, the armory often won't report drops and it won't report where the drop came from; they cannot tell how much content you did before each legendary, only how much content you have done and how many legendaries you have total. They can't tell which legendaries you got before droprate changes, which ones after etc.. end result being that there is enough data to make suggestions but not enough accurate data to conclusively say a lot of things.
A recent analysis showed a droprate of approx one per 30 days for the highest AP earners (14 days checked over end of dec to start of jan) but these are highly active players with about ~75 boss kills and ~248 m+ runs per month in that period. Personally i'm about to hit 9 weeks (2 month) for my 5'th. I think i've done a bit more legendary-weighted content than that but over a period of twice as much time.
I've broken out the Vengeance dungeon tanking again since 7.1.5 and it feels pretty great, between being a bit better at playing it and the buffs i can do a ton more now. When i jump from 26 to 35 traits it'll get a ton better still and i also have some more new talent options to try out.
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On January 24 2017 02:34 Redox wrote:Yeah maybe I am overestimating p3 since I saw other guilds not taking too long with it once they reached it. Problem we had is simply the pure dmg of black harvest, fire and stacking soul dot as well as coordinating releasing souls at right time. Bond / eye does not seem like a big problem, simply dont break bonds when eyes are incoming. You can really take your time with breaking them. Also healer action button helps if it happens. Show nested quote +On January 24 2017 02:25 Cyro wrote:
How are you guys doing with legendary drops 5, 6, 7 on a single character? I have 4 but am fine with it, 4th one was only 4 weeks ago. Also Nightwell loot treated me nicely, like 905 relic. Still wondering if chance drops after the 4th
No healer action button for p3. Just gotta coordinate breaking the empowered bonds.
We tank switched in p2 on bonds, new tank standing behind the old one so Gul'dan moves past him, letting melee help split the damage.
Solo tank p3. the other tank runs in from time to time to trigger Fel Scythe and for releasing souls since the dmg from standing in the well is pretty trivial for a tank.
Leaves everyone else to just worry about eye and bonds.
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On January 24 2017 03:03 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2017 02:34 Redox wrote:Yeah maybe I am overestimating p3 since I saw other guilds not taking too long with it once they reached it. Problem we had is simply the pure dmg of black harvest, fire and stacking soul dot as well as coordinating releasing souls at right time. Bond / eye does not seem like a big problem, simply dont break bonds when eyes are incoming. You can really take your time with breaking them. Also healer action button helps if it happens. On January 24 2017 02:25 Cyro wrote:
How are you guys doing with legendary drops 5, 6, 7 on a single character? I have 4 but am fine with it, 4th one was only 4 weeks ago. Also Nightwell loot treated me nicely, like 905 relic. Still wondering if chance drops after the 4th No healer action button for p3. Just gotta coordinate breaking the empowered bonds. We tank switched in p2 on bonds, new tank standing behind the old one so Gul'dan moves past him, letting melee help split the damage. Solo tank p3. the other tank runs in from time to time to trigger Fel Scythe and for releasing souls since the dmg from standing in the well is pretty trivial for a tank. Leaves everyone else to just worry about eye and bonds.
I dont think there are bonds in p3.
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On January 24 2017 03:03 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2017 02:34 Redox wrote:Yeah maybe I am overestimating p3 since I saw other guilds not taking too long with it once they reached it. Problem we had is simply the pure dmg of black harvest, fire and stacking soul dot as well as coordinating releasing souls at right time. Bond / eye does not seem like a big problem, simply dont break bonds when eyes are incoming. You can really take your time with breaking them. Also healer action button helps if it happens. On January 24 2017 02:25 Cyro wrote:
How are you guys doing with legendary drops 5, 6, 7 on a single character? I have 4 but am fine with it, 4th one was only 4 weeks ago. Also Nightwell loot treated me nicely, like 905 relic. Still wondering if chance drops after the 4th No healer action button for p3. Just gotta coordinate breaking the empowered bonds. We tank switched in p2 on bonds, new tank standing behind the old one so Gul'dan moves past him, letting melee help split the damage. Solo tank p3. the other tank runs in from time to time to trigger Fel Scythe and for releasing souls since the dmg from standing in the well is pretty trivial for a tank. Leaves everyone else to just worry about eye and bonds.
hmm interesting, I hoped in for HC clears and we just had people in grps run in and soak. Its not that much damage even for a clothie like me.
It felt kinda easy we had like 15 odd pulls and most of them was just people dropping flames in melee till we got fed up and made a weakaura for them and it died pretty quick after.
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Yea fires were fucking us up till we got it figured for the good ol' spread 8 yards. Wasn't that hard, looking forward to mythic next reset. Botanist I reckon will be "fun"
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I'm enjoying Nighthold thus far, but pugging it is proving to be quite painful.
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EPT
