EPTOn January 04 2015 18:59 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@kjwj, Soulkey had better ZvT than Hydra and ZerO.
@kjwj, Soulkey had better ZvT than Hydra and ZerO.
yeah soulkey is so much better than zero with his around 53% zvt compared to zero's 52% zvt.
EffOrt returns to Brood War - Page 3
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
yeah soulkey is so much better than zero with his around 53% zvt compared to zero's 52% zvt. | ||
kjwcj
Australia1064 Posts
On January 04 2015 18:59 ForTehDarkseid wrote: ffs I am not arguing that Soulkey is better than Effort. @kjwj, Soulkey had better ZvT than Hydra and ZerO. by what metric? | ||
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
On January 04 2015 18:48 kjwcj wrote: i guess it depends on what your definition of modern is. zero or soulkey over effort over any period of time is insanity though. I think "modern" is conventionally interpreted as starting somewhere between "Savior's run" and "the end of Savior's run", with Savior more or less being the first modern Zerg. The three greatest modern Zerg's were Jaedong, Savior, and Effort in that order, and I don't think there's that much room for debate. Maybe in a blue moon you can argue Savior over Jaedong for sheer impact on the game, but Jaedong was so good for so long with every thing you could ask for (OSLs and MSLs, PL dominance, PL playoff performance, even random stuff like winning a GSL and WCG), and once he reached 5 titles to top Savior's 4, I think it really sealed it. Note this is "greatness", kind of like how in sports you view greatness within the context of era and relative dominance (all star games, MVP voting, leading the league, titles, that kind of stuff), not "peak skill level". Certainly most top Zergs were better at their peak than Savior ever reached before being banned, but guys like Zero, Soulkey, Hydra, Calm, Luxury, etc., just didn't do enough. In the total history of BW you'd put Yellow and July above Effort as well, but their accomplishments were mostly before the modern era (only major exception being July getting half-handed an OSL in 2008 with a Protoss only run at the bracket stage - no disrespect to that run as it was awesome). | ||
Riner1212
United States337 Posts
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kjwcj
Australia1064 Posts
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lemmata
468 Posts
On January 04 2015 17:51 c3rberUs wrote: Just curious, who may the other zerg be if EffOrt is the third? Jaedong, ___, EffOrt? Is it + Show Spoiler + sAviOr Is it + Show Spoiler + Luxury? Is it GGPlay? I doubt its ZerO. Well,  July has a Golden Mouse to his name. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21245 Posts
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danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
On January 04 2015 16:29 L_Master wrote: ERRRRRRRRR MAAAAAAHHH GEEERRDDDD!!!!!!! This is fucking sweet. it is indeed, 2015 looking great so far ^^ | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3829 Posts
My favorite player outside of JD/Anytime | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11293 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
On January 04 2015 19:09 kjwcj wrote: by what metric? Hydra is 2-5 against Fantasy (second best TvZ after Flash). Zero is 5-9 and Soulkey is 6-1, according to TLPD. Best streak against Terrans: Soulkey 8, Hydra 6, Zero 5 (EffOrt 8, Jaedong 12). | ||
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Thinasy
2856 Posts
On January 04 2015 18:47 Probemicro wrote: people like july, savior, gorush deserve to be there more than him for actually influencing the metagame and accomplishing something. soulkey is brillant in sc2 but hes just above average in BW Just above average? what did I just read. Also your post regarding win rate is stupid, the difference in their actual skill in ZvT is huge. Soulkey had flaws that stopped him from winning a title, but nontheless he's played some of the best ZvT games during the 2010-2012 period without a doubt | ||
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
On January 04 2015 19:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Post Savior ranking is Jaedong-Chasm-The Rest in terms of ranking. No one touched Jaedong, and the gap between Jaedong and Effort is many times greater than the gap between Effort and the rest of the swarm. Oh yeah no doubt. By race, there's a huge chasm between the top couple of guys and the rest in every case. Jaedong over everyone for Z, Flash / Fantasy over everyone for T (Flash to Fantasy is arguably pretty big as well, but that's no knock on Fantasy - just that Flash ended up being uniquely great), Bisu / Stork / Jangbi to everyone for P. Though really Bisu / Stork were pretty far above Jangbi too, except that final pair of OSLs really redeemed the career of a mostly great player who had a really awful slump (the kind that none of the other elite players ever had, and few players ever have really since most players who go through that get benched permanently and never return). Jaedong was the only pantheon-level Zerg player post-Savior era, while both T and P had two (Flash / Fantasy and Bisu / Stork ... I don't think Jangbi was a pantheon level player). I might be missing some guys pre-Savior era, but to me the pantheon is Boxer / Nada / Oov / Flash / Fantasy for T, Yellow / July / Savior / Jaedong (maaaybe Chojja?) for Z, and Garimto / Reach / Nal Ra / Bisu / Stork for P. Within the pantheon, I think Boxer / Nada / Oov / Flash / Yellow / Savior / Jaedong / Bisu are a cut above. | ||
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
On January 04 2015 20:01 Thinasy wrote: Just above average? what did I just read. Also your post regarding win rate is stupid, the difference in their actual skill in ZvT is huge. Soulkey had flaws that stopped him from winning a title, but nontheless he's played some of the best ZvT games during the 2010-2012 period without a doubt zero played many top tier games as well, with flashy heavy queen usage in zvt, and hive zvz which not many zergs dare to venture into. oh zero has bad zvt compared to soulkey's top tier zvt. why does soulkey not have say 60% win rate then? are you going to say something about arbitrary "flaws". or you are just going terran imba/tank OP? | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
On January 04 2015 20:14 Probemicro wrote: oh zero has bad zvt compared to soulkey's top tier zvt. why does soulkey not have say 60% win rate then? Because ZerO was ZvP specialist in Woongjin, he played less Terrans in Proleague. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
Anyways, great news i like Effort as a player, will root for him. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
though i'd love for july to play, he's currently serving mandatory military time | ||
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BonitiilloO
Dominican Republic627 Posts
and also confirmed for ssl11 according to sonic. [QUOTE]On January 01 2015 17:47 lemmata wrote: + Show Spoiler + Original here Members of Sonic TV: Thank you for coming in to work hard on the first day of the year. Thank you, Cho Minsung PD and other staff members. Thank you caster Jung Sorim, commentator Kim Carry, and commentator TheMarine. Thank you, everyone who watched todays games. Thank you, everyone who came to see the matches offline despite the cold weather. The round of 32 has concluded successfully. This is the first time that the studio has been opened since the construction at Sonic TV studio. It was warmed by the passion of the many people who came today. This is only the beginning. Starting January 7, the Sbenu Starleague will be broadcast on Ongamenet. I would like to find more talented players and develop amateur players so that a Brood War league can continuously exist into the distant future. It will be a long-term project, but it does not seem impossible if you and I combine our efforts. Effort has already signed up for the next league and I hope to include more amateurs as well. It makes me depressed to think that I am a year older. Ha~ T_T Happy new year! Thank you^^ The resurrection of Brood War that we've been talking about for a long time is finally near get him on the sidebar please.[/QUOTE] i know this was going to happen, BW will became what it was before if SC2: LotV doesnt deliver. | ||
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chongu
Malaysia2599 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3829 Posts
On January 04 2015 20:31 SC2BF3Love wrote: i know this was going to happen, BW will became what it was before if SC2: LotV doesnt deliver. What a weird situation for Blizzard to find themselves in | ||
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