EPT[G] the ignorant build -PvZ - Page 2
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straycat
230 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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11B
United States188 Posts
have a counter you have in mind? In theory.LOL  ...- Any variation of 15Hat//16Pool (hat/pool in general) or any variation of 14 or 15Pool/XHatch - 3 Queens and 2 spines (helping choke towards your ramp w/Queen help) - 5:00 2xgas - Drone up to 2 base saturation minus 1 gas. Take 3rd gas around 7:00 (16x2 and 3x3; 41) - 6:00 Hatch in main (yep, weird back at ya) followed by zergling speed (6:05) - 6:30 2x evo - 7:05 +1/1 (melee/cara) - 7:00 a double injected eggs hatch > Lings - 7:45 another double inject of Lings + start Lair > pressure/harrass/deny Protoss 3rd. - 8:30 a triple inject eggs hatch > Lings (Total of 75-80 Lings and attack before 10:00 with +1/1) - 9:00 4th Hatch at Expo > drone drone drone into IP and tech path of your choice. Pretty much 1 more inject cycle and a few more drones and your saturated. It's not perfect cause I just threw it together. I.e., the 2nd spine in conjunction with 2x gas at 5:00 gives you a few idle larvae but even then, you can still afford to start zergling speed, double upgrades (just after 7:00) and reach 41 drones nlt 6:40-50. You're first inject cycle larvae into lings will also have about 2-3 idle larvae (cant afford). However, past that you don't have any problems spending your $$ and still reach the final Ling benchmarks I mention. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
On November 14 2014 04:10 Ignorant prodigy wrote: lol really? interesting... i have like 2K plus games as zerg and have never once seen 2 gate into expand proxy gates maybe.. but that is NOT and expand build *shrug* maybe it's out of the meta now, but 2gate into expand has been around since at least 2011. Maybe not many people do it anymore, but I've played against it a few times. Pros don't do it really, but on ladder you see all kinds of shit. I guess it's uncommon enough that people are commenting on it, so I guess it really has fallen out of the meta =P | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On November 14 2014 09:00 Defenestrator wrote: *shrug* maybe it's out of the meta now, but 2gate into expand has been around since at least 2011. Maybe not many people do it anymore, but I've played against it a few times. Pros don't do it really, but on ladder you see all kinds of shit. I guess it's uncommon enough that people are commenting on it, so I guess it really has fallen out of the meta =P It's pretty much been used by no one. NoNy use to do it on ladder for a couple weeks in like 2011, and MC did it in an NASL game against Machine on Crossfire (by memory?) but apart from that it pretty much doesn't exist. I also tried it on the ladder a bit and it's not completely terrible but it isn't a thing for a reason. Definitely not pretty common, i'd go as far that it has never truly existed in the metagame at any point in time, except for a couple people briefly experimenting. It hasn't fallen out of the meta, because it was never in the meta lol. In fact, you probably wouldn't even find proper builds written up for it, any 2gate builds you would find would be 2 gate sentry expands, which is a completely different thing. | ||
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
On November 14 2014 09:16 blooblooblahblah wrote: It's pretty much been used by no one. NoNy use to do it on ladder for a couple weeks in like 2011, and MC did it in an NASL game against Machine on Crossfire (by memory?) but apart from that it pretty much doesn't exist. I also tried it on the ladder a bit and it's not completely terrible but it isn't a thing for a reason. Definitely not pretty common, i'd go as far that it has never truly existed in the metagame at any point in time, except for a couple people briefly experimenting. It hasn't fallen out of the meta, because it was never in the meta lol. In fact, you probably wouldn't even find proper builds written up for it, any 2gate builds you would find would be 2 gate sentry expands, which is a completely different thing. OK now that you've thrown down the gauntlet... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/361095-pvz-2gate-pressure-expand-into-3stargate-vrs http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/135561-zvp-fast-expand-versus-2gate-zealots Saying it was ever part of the "standard meta" is probably going too far, but I remember 1 pro who used to do this pretty often.... his name eludes me, he's since retired, I think he used to play for ROOT. Also, as a reminder, zealot build times were increased by a few seconds (5 seconds I think) because of 2gate, and I'm not talking about proxy 2-gate, we're talking cross-map pressure (though maps were smaller back then). As a side note to OP: a friend of a friend apparently uses a 2gate build, but blocks the hatch with a pylon. That way it's a lot harder to get a spine in place in time to defend the nat by the time you hit. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Yeah 2 gate I guess *used* to be part of the meta but that was on maps like Xelnaga and Metalopolis where you couldn't move out at all to secure your natural for obvious reasons... but even on the #dreampool this build is soooo far out of the meta. | ||
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Ignorant prodigy
United States385 Posts
I didn't execute quite as smoothly as I wanted but you get the jist... this guy's response was pretty common... jump to 19:30. the beginning was me just trying to get the OBS and streaming settings right. idontusehotkeys also.. I know i'm bad.. so lets not criticize my play lol | ||
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NeV
Italy370 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On November 15 2014 02:56 NeV wrote: I think this is only viable vs someone who doesn't know how to react. Isn't this true of any build? | ||
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7795 Posts
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
No ;p | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
This build is very potent not because its weird but because its strong vs very aggressive 10 pool zerg and very greedy openings. You will do well vs anything else too because you almost allways force defenses. Important to note is that you should totally suicide your zealots if you can deal significant amounts of damage with them. 4-5 zealots is a magical number that early in the game as you can kite and 1 shot small numbers of lings easily. 3 zealots + MSC must be a strong option too! The stargate is to punish overreactions like roaches and the fact that zerg cant be aggressive against it. Its a very nice opening and very versataile. Mutas are indeed a problem but you can support your army with phoenixes if you scout it early enough. | ||
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
On November 22 2014 11:45 clickrush wrote: Haha opening was extremely common during the WoL beta and first year in PvZ. Either 10gate / double gate zealot aggression into air into 2 base deathball while getting a third. This build is very potent not because its weird but because its strong vs very aggressive 10 pool zerg and very greedy openings. You will do well vs anything else too because you almost allways force defenses. Important to note is that you should totally suicide your zealots if you can deal significant amounts of damage with them. 4-5 zealots is a magical number that early in the game as you can kite and 1 shot small numbers of lings easily. 3 zealots + MSC must be a strong option too! The stargate is to punish overreactions like roaches and the fact that zerg cant be aggressive against it. Its a very nice opening and very versataile. Mutas are indeed a problem but you can support your army with phoenixes if you scout it early enough. It doesn't do well vs "anything else." 7RR hard-counters this build (not like anyone does that anymore... for the inundated, 7RR = "7 roach rush" off of 1 base into expo at around 32-34 supply), and is even more potent now that you can get burrow. Alternately if Z defends properly with 1 spine, queen + some lings and doesn't over-produce units, Z has a nice lead going into the early-midgame. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
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KingLumps
74 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On November 22 2014 11:45 clickrush wrote: Haha opening was extremely common during the WoL beta and first year in PvZ. Either 10gate / double gate zealot aggression into air into 2 base deathball while getting a third. While reading this I also felt we have gone in a (very, very) large circle here haha. If I remember correctly, this opening was the main reason why the zealot buildtime was changed to 38 seconds with one of the first WoL patches. | ||
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SourPatchParent
United States44 Posts
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