EPTIs this the general conclusion? Is it impossible for a zerg to fast expand against a 2gate zealot build? Are there any fast expanding builds that work against this?
ZvP Fast Expand versus 2gate zealots
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RavenNevermore
Canada66 Posts
Is this the general conclusion? Is it impossible for a zerg to fast expand against a 2gate zealot build? Are there any fast expanding builds that work against this? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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DennyR
Germany379 Posts
scout him early, if he doesnt have gas yet skip zerglings and start producing roaches. with the first roach out u can expand and build up pressure and maybe even win, because roaches own zealots hard, even without speedupgrade. | ||
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Phisk
166 Posts
Generally its pretty risky to exp before you got any lings in production. Dont be afraid to cancel a hatch if you scout a 2 gate opening, its much better than just loosing it to zealot preassure. It would help a lot if you gave us some replays so we can see what you are doing wrong, as there is more than one way to FE as zerg. | ||
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prochobo
United States232 Posts
I usually don't commit too hard and might make 5-6 zealots for aggression then back off. If you can hold off the 2 gate, you are ahead of the Toss player since you have your expo and that benefit snowballs as time goes on. 2 gates aren't as easy as every one makes them out to be, especially with the build time increase. | ||
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
 your expansion will be delayed but you won't be behind. iirc the Protoss will be behind unless he built the gateways at his natural's choke, put a cannon down and got a quick nexus. That's the smartest way to 2 gate I've seen. If he doesn't get the cannon your roaches will do a lot of damage and if holds his main ramp he'll be super late on his expo. You're not in a bad spot either way, you have map control and you should drone hard. That's the way I understand the dynamic in a pvz 2-gate game as it seems to play out. Come to think of it, they just increased the zealot build time, didn't they? Does this hurt the 2-gate rush significantly? | ||
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RavenNevermore
Canada66 Posts
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DennyR
Germany379 Posts
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Tookie22
United States187 Posts
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Usyless
54 Posts
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Templar.
Canada133 Posts
On July 12 2010 04:52 RavenNevermore wrote: You guys are misunderstanding me. I'm not asking for tips on my build, and i'm not asking if fast expanding IS the best option. I'm just asking if there IS a fast expand build that works against it. the 14 hatch 13 pool build is suspose to be a direct counter to 2 gate pressure, but I assume this works only on 4 player maps such as LT and meta. | ||
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memcpy
United States459 Posts
double extract trick 12 hatch 11 pool double extract trick overlord queen 2 drones queen | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
But it may be possible to do, I just have never done it, nor have I seen anyone do it very well. edit: Desert Oasis may be the only exception, but even that is iffy, and I'd have to see it to believe it (I exclude DO so I never play on it). | ||
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DrTossRulezz
United States45 Posts
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Ruthless
United States492 Posts
On July 12 2010 03:59 RavenNevermore wrote: Is this possible? Since beta came back, protoss, who I used to be quite strong against as a player have been dominating me with constant 2gates. Part of it is that I'm rusty, part of it is cuz i'm awful (thank you day[9]). I began practicing with my protoss friend attempting to get a fast expand build versus a 2 gate zealot push, and I've come to the personal conclusion that it's impossible if the opponent has acceptable micro. Is this the general conclusion? Is it impossible for a zerg to fast expand against a 2gate zealot build? Are there any fast expanding builds that work against this? I did a lot of testing. the 14 pool 14 hatch then spam lings can still work if its far spots but otherwise i think you need some sort of one base gas opening for speed or roaches before placing your expo. | ||
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
I do play random though so I scout slightly later. | ||
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EssayReader
Korea (South)127 Posts
Early Roaches Expand It's not as fast, but because they focus so much on a harassment, you will still have an economic advantage in the late mid-game and late game. Just get 3 Queens, 1 for your main, 1 for your ramp/creep tumors/energy stacker and 1 for your expansion. The reason for this is that most of your Protoss players are going to be only using minerals for Zealots and Gateways. Gas can be saved for Void Rays or Phoenixes (if they want) and with the Zealot's increased building time, Probes have time to mine a few more minerals that they want. | ||
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DuncanIdaho
United States465 Posts
14 pool (send out initial olord to scout nearest main spawn and hotkey the hatchery and olord, make 9drones, then olord, 10th drone, scout while waiting on olord, build 4 more drones, drop the spawning pool in a place to increase running distance for enemy melee, such as zealots, to your drones) 15 hatch(make drones till you're at 15/18, and right about that time and meanwhile, as you're approaching 300min have a drone arriving at your natural expo spot) After this, I tend to make an olord, queen, and 6 lings, not necessarily in that order, butyou get the point. I tend to make a spine crawler in my main, and as soon as it's done, such that it will arrive at the natural expo as soon as it spreads creep, I'm having it arrive to plant itself. Generally, the earliest you should expect something, you'll have lings, a queen, and a spine crawler to take them on, and so far I've done well enough. Meanwhile, I tend to make an extractor and some drones to mine it as well as a roach warren, and maybe another spine crawler or two, depending upon my mood. Beyond that, I lair up and tech to hydralisks if they keep sending zealots, since they micro well against lots. Unless of course, toss stalker rushes me, then it just feels like a meat grinder of who can make the most roaches vs stalkers, meanwhile teching to spire for muta harass, and later blords/corrupters. Hopefully that helps, but dont give up on the fast expansion, that's what zerg is made for... edit: I also hear speedlings do well against lots, and if they make chargelots the hydralisks lose their micro advantage... | ||
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
Ra trys 2 gate but after the patch it seems zealot are too late to counter mass zerglings. result ra is been forced to play 1 base whereas tlo has 3 . heres the link btw | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
This is the build I use: 14 pool 15 hatch 14 queen/overlord make pure lings when your queen finishes, cast a spawn larva and then send it to your expo while building another queen in your main | ||
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