EPTAs for the attacks or non attacks or whatever, it doesn't really matter because now GG is associated with these actions even if they never happened. It's better to just focus on the actual journalism side of things because lord knows the rabbit hole that we'll keep going down if we have to wade through the slime that has been posted on the attacks side of things (on both sides).
Gamergate and video game journalism - Page 14
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Please don't go calling people racist, misogynists, or any combination therein. Don't start throwing around words like "white Knight" or SJW, these words are at this point used in a derogatory manner regarding this debate. You can discuss that these terms exist, but do not attribute them to any individual user or group of users on this website. Try to have a serious discussion about the topic at hand without resorting to personal attacks and we will all be the better for it. Breaking this rule will result in an automatic temp ban the length of which will depend on the comment you make. This thread started not so bad. It is getting worse. If you want to have this discussion on TL be respectful of your fellow users, we all live in the same house. Effective now: Page 21 October 18th 08:31 KST | ||
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las91
United States5080 Posts
As for the attacks or non attacks or whatever, it doesn't really matter because now GG is associated with these actions even if they never happened. It's better to just focus on the actual journalism side of things because lord knows the rabbit hole that we'll keep going down if we have to wade through the slime that has been posted on the attacks side of things (on both sides). | ||
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Dunnobro
United States67 Posts
@Ret-con: A lot of Quinnspiracy people turned into #Gamergate, but #Gamergate was specifically about the corruption. It started with Adam Baldwin tweeting about it, no mention of Zoe. So I guess you could argue for it either way, I don't really care about the past or how people choose to perceive it though. It's just not the time for that. http://www.historyofgamergate.com/volume-1-a-peoples-history.html According to this, it was essentially the reaction of the media to the concerns of the Quinnspiracy that sparked #Gamergate. So... Involved but irrelevant? | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On October 17 2014 10:53 Dunnobro wrote: No it isn't. Zoe is irrelevant. It's what the media allowed her to do that is the issue. You can't penalize the media by proving how awful a person who doesn't work in the media is. Who the fuck is penalizing the media by proving how awful Zoe is. Certainly not me except users like "sushiman", "Slaughter", and "Dunnobro" that penalized myself for bringing the pretext to light. More public shaming/punishment to her should be welcomed by sending a message out there to everybody that you can't get away scamming the gaming community by trading sexual favors and faking being a victim. | ||
Falling
Canada11529 Posts
On October 17 2014 11:07 Xiphos wrote: Who the fuck is penalizing the media by proving how awful Zoe is. Certainly not me except users like "sushiman", "Slaughter", and "Dunnobro" that penalized myself for bringing the pretext to light. More public shaming/punishment to her should be welcomed by sending a message out there to everybody that you can't get away scamming the gaming community by trading sexual favors and faking being a victim. So do you believe that the online response to Zoe was proportional to her behaviour? And further, "More public shaming... should be welcomed" do you think more is needed? More beyond what she already received? | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On October 17 2014 11:07 Xiphos wrote: Who the fuck is penalizing the media by proving how awful Zoe is. Certainly not me except users like "sushiman", "Slaughter", and "Dunnobro" that penalized myself for bringing the pretext to light. More public shaming/punishment to her should be welcomed by sending a message out there to everybody that you can't get away scamming the gaming community by trading sexual favors and faking being a victim. Apparently you can get away with it, the rest of gaming media covered for her pretty hardcore. And it makes sense. Their corruption keeps the cash flowing for them. Devs sell games to idiots that still read IGN and the like, reviewers keep getting early access to big-name games which keeps their ad revenue up. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On October 17 2014 11:07 Xiphos wrote: Who the fuck is penalizing the media by proving how awful Zoe is. Certainly not me except users like "sushiman", "Slaughter", and "Dunnobro" that penalized myself for bringing the pretext to light. More public shaming/punishment to her should be welcomed by sending a message out there to everybody that you can't get away scamming the gaming community by trading sexual favors and faking being a victim. Corruption in gaming journalism has nothing to do with her faking being a victim. About the only relevance is trading sexual favors for favorable press, which is on the asshats in gaming journalism much more than her. Truly, if she is a compulsive liar and still has a large following, there's no good reason to keep attacking her because she'll just keep deflecting it just the same. Treat Zoe like the bullet point she is, as a quick example of how fucked up the whole sector is, right next to the catered meals and VIP events given to "journalists" that are supposed to rate and inform us about games. | ||
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Dunnobro
United States67 Posts
On October 17 2014 11:07 Xiphos wrote: Who the fuck is penalizing the media by proving how awful Zoe is. Certainly not me except users like "sushiman", "Slaughter", and "Dunnobro" that penalized myself for bringing the pretext to light. More public shaming/punishment to her should be welcomed by sending a message out there to everybody that you can't get away scamming the gaming community by trading sexual favors and faking being a victim. Then you don't get Gamergate. Smearing and shaming is their game, we're about the facts. And they stop being relevant as far as Zoe goes beyond the journalists side of corruption. This is not the time or platform to shame her. That undermines the whole message man, please I want #gamergate to succeed and giving them ammo isn't helping. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On October 17 2014 11:12 Falling wrote: So do you believe that the online response to Zoe was proportional to her behaviour? And further, "More public shaming... should be welcomed" do you think more is needed? More beyond what she already received? Well there are some variables at play here. There is a concept called karma. The primary concern would be the emotional discontent from her supporters caused by her lying manipulative behaviors either in terms of marketing support and/or monetary support. That being said, the level of punishment that she deserves should equate to the level of emotional discontent and monetary dissatisfaction of the people. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On October 17 2014 11:24 Xiphos wrote: Well there are some variables at play here. There is a concept called karma. The primary concern would be the emotional discontent from her supporters caused by her lying manipulative behaviors either in terms of marketing support and/or monetary support. That being said, the level of punishment that she deserves should equate to the level of emotional discontent and monetary dissatisfaction of the people. Karma is served by the heavens, not by hundreds+ of angry gamers. It's much better to serve the cause by collecting trash on the journalists (in regards to their ethical misconduct). | ||
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Dunnobro
United States67 Posts
I'm pro gamergate man, I'm not trying to defend Zoe at all. Just please consider what you're doing, what needs to be done. We need to convince neutral people #Gamergate isn't actually evil, and has a focus on the corruption. Zoe has nothing to do with the corruption, she's was just facilitated by it. You focus on proving how bad she is then the message is lost. It's the same pitfall others have fallen into. They thought this was about rejecting liberalism/feminism and not being apolitical against corruption that happens to be leftist. So they lost interest. (Or being progressive and tried to get us to infight against Milo who's just a conservative journalist who reported on #Gamergate. He isn't even really apart of it) Focus on the corruption. There is NOTHING to gain by proving Zoe is bad, and everything to gain proving the media is bad. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On October 17 2014 11:28 aksfjh wrote: Karma is served by the heavens, not by hundreds+ of angry gamers. It's much better to serve the cause by collecting trash on the journalists (in regards to their ethical misconduct). If you kill someone, whether or not this "heaven" exist, it will still be the court system, the mob, and the people putting you in the cell. While yes Zoe Quinn don't deserve the full blame regarding nepotism (the journalists do too) but she enabled the entire fiasco. Notice how I've also placed information regarding the journalist up there. Funny how people can choose to ignore things. If we were to be fair, she deserves 50% of the blame for gaming nepotism. So saying that she is completely irrelevant in this case is the equivalency of attempting the steal a bell and covering your ears by thinking that just because you can't hear it, the ringing isn't there. BOTH sides should be chastised, BOTH sides are equally to blame. BOTH sides are accomplices. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
On October 17 2014 11:07 Xiphos wrote: Who the fuck is penalizing the media by proving how awful Zoe is. Certainly not me except users like "sushiman", "Slaughter", and "Dunnobro" that penalized myself for bringing the pretext to light. More public shaming/punishment to her should be welcomed by sending a message out there to everybody that you can't get away scamming the gaming community by trading sexual favors and faking being a victim. You mean rehashing the same stuff over again is "bringing pretext to light"? This type of stuff is old news, even among Gamergaters who want to MOVE PAST this whole thing with Zoe. Your not bringing anything to the table except prolonging the image that this is more about some random developer whose actions are shrouded in BS that basically no one except insiders actually knows the truth? I mean where is your condemnation on the journalist side? I don't see you calling out and posting a bunch of image macros about any of them. The whole point of my posts was to point out how counter productive bringing Zoe into it STILL at this point in time is pointless. Outside perception on its side is something that it needs on its side if Gamegate wants to go anywhere. People with no clue about gaming mostly just kind of nod their heads at each other as their previous negative conceptions about gamers get reinforced because Gamergate has utterly failed to control the narrative because it lacks coherency and that the fact that what sparked this whole thing DID in fact come from a bad place that contained a lot of half truths to it (seriously people got outraged by an EX ranting and took it at face value). I can tell you right now that Gamergate isn't winning over people on the outside. I know of at least 4 different people on my Facebook feed who have posted things that basically paint Gamergate in the worst possible way, and these are people who have Master's and PhD degrees. The narrative has already changed and most of the headlines I see now are about threats/harrassment against various bloggers/critics/developers who are women within the gaming world. Its less than tasteful origins has completely tainted it in the eyes of the public. It just can't shake this image unless it actually has a clear focus and organization that changes the perception of it. | ||
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Dunnobro
United States67 Posts
People with degrees are just as susceptible to lies and the spins of the media as anyone else, but they can't keep spinning forever. Also #Gamergate can't really be blamed alone for people getting a false perception of them. Their enemy is the one who controls information, they withhold the good and magnify the bad. What do you expect to happen when your enemy is LITERAL BULLIES: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0GzV04IUAAXkNj.jpg:large Glorifying bullying during bullying prevention month... And then you have the guardian threatening people for being non-biased against #Gamergate. But yea, move past Zoe god dammit. These issues are way more important, Zoe has been discussed to death. She's on max signal boost, obviously more isn't gonna help. She's an INDIE DEVELOPER. An individual, focusing on her is like focusing on who was murdered, when you already know who did it, why, and how. She is merely a reoccurring nonfactor. Signal boost THIS. | ||
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
CNN's coverage is just terrible. http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/living/gamergate-explainer/index.html On one side are the so-called hardcore gamers, most of them male, who make and play adrenaline-fueled games such as the "Halo" and "Call of Duty" shooter series. On another side are a new wave of gaming enthusiasts, many of them women, who are making and playing games that don't involve a shootout, a chase or sometimes even a quest of any kind. I just have to facepalm at the "professional and objective coverage." | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On October 17 2014 12:55 Dunnobro wrote: Not sure how you can claim #Gamergate isn't winning people over on the outside, I mean they just had Georgina speak on Huffpo who was anti-gg until she got banned for not being anti enough. A few "converted" posts on r/kotakuinaction too. And no stories about it, but many neutrals were harassed for not taking a side against gamergate like boogie. People with degrees are just as susceptible to lies and the spins of the media as anyone else, but they can't keep spinning forever. Also #Gamergate can't really be blamed alone for people getting a false perception of them. Their enemy is the one who controls information, they withhold the good and magnify the bad. What do you expect to happen when your enemy is LITERAL BULLIES: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0GzV04IUAAXkNj.jpg:large Glorifying bullying during bullying prevention month... And then you have the guardian threatening people for being non-biased against #Gamergate. But yea, move past Zoe god dammit. These issues are way more important, Zoe has been discussed to death. She's on max signal boost, obviously more isn't gonna help. She's an INDIE DEVELOPER. An individual, focusing on her is like focusing on who was murdered, when you already know who did it, why, and how. She is merely a reoccurring nonfactor. Signal boost THIS. Is that $10,000 offer real? I'd like the free money, would make my upcoming move very stress free. | ||
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
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Trumpet
United States1936 Posts
On October 17 2014 10:59 Falling wrote: Except that Gamergate people keep trying to tell me that it had nothing to do with Zoe with first place. I think several post in this thread makes me lean towards that was simply GG going into damage control mode with a ret-con. The damage control ret-con is super weird to me... if GG cares about the issues it claims to, why use a banner that's origins are in harassing a woman? It's easy to trace the first use of gamergate and see it all about ZQ with a bunch of already debunked info. I've still yet to see the kotaku review of DQ that everyone claims she slept with someone to get. Forgot who said it first, but it's like gamergate only exists to defend gamergate at this point. tbh, I don't like that the biggest proponent of GG in this thread is a brand new acount that has only ever posted in this thread. I don't have anything specifically against you, dunnobro, but when controversial issues pop up and new accounts are doing the arguing it feels like the forum is being or is going to be jumped on by outsiders as a new marketing battleground. Stick around here and prove me wrong! | ||
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Dunnobro
United States67 Posts
You should watch the GG 60 seconds video. Also, there were two different types of main problems had with Zoe. 1: "She was a slut and needed to be harassed" 2: "She and this group of men were morally corrupt and this needed to be addressed by the gaming media. " You can consider these people the same exact group if you want, and both went onto become #Gamergate but I personally think it's disingenuous to lump genuinely concerned people to assholes who for the most part do not control the narrative. And I don't think those really concerned with harassing her would've bothered to expand their horizons. And no prob. I'm a smasher, after all. I'm powerhouse on smashboards in case you think I'm some absolute random. (I am a random, but an old random) | ||
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ShiroKaisen
United States1082 Posts
The close relationship between AAA publishers and gaming media outlets is the real problem, but GG started in reaction to Quinn stuff and in the end, it's going to be completely impossible to separate it from the extremists who just want Anita and other "SJWs" out of their lives. 'cause apparently any time a review points out that a game treats women or minorities poorly, they were paid for in money or sexual favors to go along with the "SJW agenda." And apparently this is an even bigger deal than the decades-long partnership between gaming news and game developers that render real "games journalism" impossible. If GG had just picked up where Doritogate left off and stopped talking about how much it hates feminism and Social Justice Strawmen it might've actually done something worthwhile. As it is, it's just gonna be a bunch of angry people who get other people angry and in the end, nothing is going to change except maybe the Gawker network takes a hit. | ||
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Dunnobro
United States67 Posts
Mostly that's a relative privation fallacy though, backtracking information is hard. Fresh information gets people riled up, we can slam them with it later of course. Do note though, the big reason Doritogate failed was because the gaming journalists refused to cover it. So there was a barrier between us and them, we get an objective gaming journalism on our side...? Well we get an ally in that fight instead of a big fat hurdle. Also real talk Doritogate is one of the main examples of the corruption what the fuck? The biggest issue is even being able to talk about the examples of corruption You seem to be under the impression that just because people aren't talking as much about OLD news as they are about NEW news that it's completely ignored. The fact is, no one is even defending Doritogate, it's just getting ignored completely by the opposition because they don't feel it applies to them. Also the main reason the "SJW Agenda" is so talked about is because that's the narrative they're using to deflect criticism, more than the agenda itself being the issue. | ||
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