Huawei and now Xiaomi are sending user data to Chinese servers which are of course linked to the Chinese Communist Party, or even worse, hacking, identity theft, credit card theft, etc the list goes on. I also wouldn't trust any other Chinese companies like Lenovo.
Huawei and Xiaomi are rising as big players in the smartphone market. Huawei, for example, ranked 3rd in Q2 2014 smartphone shipments behind Samsung and Apple. And some Americans seem to have been buying their products (uh oh).
IMO people should stick to Apple, Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC, etc... companies that can be trusted. Chinese companies can not be trusted (yet). It will take a long time, possibly decades, for Chinese companies to be free from their puppet strings organized by the Chinese government.
No we shouldn't trust Carrier Rootkit (which is not a mobile phone manufacturer). There are many civil and criminal lawsuits that have been launched against them:
Another company that is doomed to fail. Huawei and Xiaomi should be boycotted until they can prove that personal information is not sent to these Chinese servers. Of course, this will be impossible to prove. That's why I will never trust Chinese brands when it comes to IT.
This is the cold, hard truth. They could be stealing your personal info, identity, credit cards, etc if you own a Huawei or Xiaomi phone. This is China, not America where the sole purpose of the NSA was to record and listen to various conversations. They are 2 completely different countries consisting of people with completely different interests.
No we shouldn't trust Carrier Rootkit (which is not a mobile phone manufacturer). There are many civil and criminal lawsuits that have been launched against them:
My point is the industry is such a free for all money grab that we shouldn't trust anybody, and no-one should be under the illusion that their mobile data is in any way safe or private. Frankly if my data is being sent to someone else i wouldn't care whether it was the manufacturer of the phone or some third party developer, i would be equally as pissed off.
No we shouldn't trust Carrier Rootkit (which is not a mobile phone manufacturer). There are many civil and criminal lawsuits that have been launched against them:
My point is the industry is such a free for all money grab that we shouldn't trust anybody, and no-one should be under the illusion that their mobile data is in any way safe or private. Frankly if my data is being sent to someone else i wouldn't care whether it was the manufacturer of the phone or some third party developer, i would be equally as pissed off.
Sending personal/business/government data of American users to the Chinese Communist Party presents a huge security threat to the USA. This is the primary concern. Remember, there are possibly businessmen and government workers in the USA who may have bought a Huawei or Xiaomi phone. It doesn't just concern the public.
Also, if these "Chinese servers" are linked to hackers, then this would be a concern for the people who bought a Huawei and Xiaomi phone. Identity theft and credit card theft are rampant in China.
On July 30 2014 17:54 AutoEngineer wrote: IMO people should stick to Apple, Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC, etc... companies that can be trusted. Chinese companies can not be trusted (yet).
Feel free to distrust Chinese companies. But then, what makes you say the companies you named are trustworthy? Did you miss the whole NSA scandal?
@OP: What the article says is that the collected data is sent back to China. Well these are Chinese company, should they upload their data to another country just to make you happy? Unlike other several scandals in the past with other manufacturers or Google, there is no evidence yet that the phone transmits anything more than anonymous preferences statistics.
From the article you linked yourself:
The auto-backup feature also apparently comes disabled according to Xiaomi, so the collection of preference calculation is something that sounds like it has to be enabled by the user in the first place, which could be exactly what happened in this scenario. In short, we shouldn’t be rushing to burn anyone at the stake.
Of course you are free to boycott those brands, but your post really looks anti-Chinese, and you conveniently decide to ignore the NSA scandal while saying Apple and Samsung are to be trusted. Maybe it was not done on purpose, the way I read it, it is suggesting that Huawei and Xiaomi are very elaborate scams by the Chinese government to steal Americans' credit cards numbers.
If memory serves, Samsung is one of the world's most corrupt companies. Further, what Huawei and Xiaomi are doing doesn't seem very different from what several other cellphone manufacturers did in the US. That others are doing the same doesn't mean that we should all up and trust these two companies, but looking to a company like Apple or Samsung and expecting a trustworthy company that will keep your mobile data private is also foolish.
No we shouldn't trust Carrier Rootkit (which is not a mobile phone manufacturer). There are many civil and criminal lawsuits that have been launched against them:
My point is the industry is such a free for all money grab that we shouldn't trust anybody, and no-one should be under the illusion that their mobile data is in any way safe or private. Frankly if my data is being sent to someone else i wouldn't care whether it was the manufacturer of the phone or some third party developer, i would be equally as pissed off.
Sending personal/business/government data of American users to the Chinese Communist Party presents a huge security threat to the USA. This is the primary concern.
You have got to be kidding me.
How is this any different than the USA getting all this information unlawfully from all of its supposed allies?
On July 30 2014 19:32 Zealously wrote: If memory serves, Samsung is one of the world's most corrupt companies. Further, what Huawei and Xiaomi are doing doesn't seem very different from what several other cellphone manufacturers did in the US. That others are doing the same doesn't mean that we should all up and trust these two companies, but looking to a company like Apple or Samsung and expecting a trustworthy company that will keep your mobile data private is also foolish.
Corrupt? Yes, of course. But corruption applies to all big, successful companies.
Apple was also accused of poor working conditions at Foxconn. Apple and other smartphone companies are just as corrupt as Samsung.
No big, successful company on the face of this world is not corrupt. They had to get to their position by cheating one way or another. Steve Jobs was a corrupt person, but all of this is censored by the American mainstream media. If you don't believe that the biggest companies of today are products of corruption and cheating, then you have not been exposed to the reality of the business world.
But there's a difference between corruption and hacking/theft/espionage.
The point of this thread is to discuss hacking/theft/espionage. While corruption is also an issue, that's not the main point of this thread.
No we shouldn't trust Carrier Rootkit (which is not a mobile phone manufacturer). There are many civil and criminal lawsuits that have been launched against them:
My point is the industry is such a free for all money grab that we shouldn't trust anybody, and no-one should be under the illusion that their mobile data is in any way safe or private. Frankly if my data is being sent to someone else i wouldn't care whether it was the manufacturer of the phone or some third party developer, i would be equally as pissed off.
Sending personal/business/government data of American users to the Chinese Communist Party presents a huge security threat to the USA. This is the primary concern.
You have got to be kidding me.
How is this any different than the USA getting all this information unlawfully from all of its supposed allies?
If you're referring to the NSA, then the NSA pertains to mainly within US borders.
I know the difference very well, but what is the difference between the US hacking and spying and China doing the same? Both countries are gathering this type of information to get whatever upper hand they can, but I don't understand your apparent willingness to forgive the US while condemning China for doing the same thing.
On July 30 2014 19:46 Zealously wrote: I know the difference very well, but what is the difference between the US hacking and spying and China doing the same? Both countries are gathering this type of information to get whatever upper hand they can, but I don't understand your apparent willingness to forgive the US while condemning China for doing the same thing.
Well for starters, I'm American and I'm much more sensitive about China stealing my personal information compared to the NSA, a subset of the US government, doing the same. The NSA was a huge scandal and even affects us to this day, however their spying was not directed at other countries and was not for corporate gain.
The Chinese on the other hand could be using this for corporate gain, identity theft and credit card theft. Huawei, Xiaomi, Lenovo all have ties to either the Chinese government or high level officials in the CCP. The Chinese government leaders and officials have financial interests in these companies.
This is the main difference between China (still largely a communist country when it comes to government-business relations) and the USA (and other capitalist/western countries).
In fact, the NSA did target other countries. I'm unclear on the exact extent of the NSA's spying on other countries (and I am writing this from my phone which makes googling sources difficult), but tapping the phone belonging to the German chancellor seems like the exact thing you are condemning China for doing. In case you haven't read much about it, you can read a little about PRISM here.
If you're referring to the NSA, then the NSA pertains to mainly within US borders.
What the hell are you talking about? Have you not read any of the news concerning the US spying on European countries, particularly Germany? About wiretapping Merkel's personal phone?
Or are you so US-centric that you weren't even aware about the international outcry over NSA spying?
If you're referring to the NSA, then the NSA pertains to mainly within US borders.
What the shit are you talking about? Have you not read any of the news concerning the US spying on European countries, particularly Germany? About wiretapping Merkel's personal phone?
Or are you so US-centric that you weren't even aware about the international outcry over NSA spying?
Relax, no need to use foul language.
Yes, the NSA did wiretap on Angela Merckel's phone but 99% of the wiretapping were within US borders.
On July 30 2014 19:32 Zealously wrote: If memory serves, Samsung is one of the world's most corrupt companies. Further, what Huawei and Xiaomi are doing doesn't seem very different from what several other cellphone manufacturers did in the US. That others are doing the same doesn't mean that we should all up and trust these two companies, but looking to a company like Apple or Samsung and expecting a trustworthy company that will keep your mobile data private is also foolish.
The only bad thing I know about Samsung is what they did to JangBi T_T
On July 30 2014 19:32 Zealously wrote: If memory serves, Samsung is one of the world's most corrupt companies. Further, what Huawei and Xiaomi are doing doesn't seem very different from what several other cellphone manufacturers did in the US. That others are doing the same doesn't mean that we should all up and trust these two companies, but looking to a company like Apple or Samsung and expecting a trustworthy company that will keep your mobile data private is also foolish.
The only bad thing I know about Samsung is what they did to JangBi T_T
I wouldn't have bought the S3 if that had come to light earlier, god damnit Samsung
Why does everyone want to spy on me? China, the USA, my own country... I just don't get it. I'm not that interesting, and it's supposed to be against our civil rights (in two of those countries, at least).
Why have these rights if they're just going to get violated anyway?
On July 30 2014 22:15 goiflin wrote: Why does everyone want to spy on me? China, the USA, my own country... I just don't get it. I'm not that interesting, and it's supposed to be against our civil rights (in two of those countries, at least).
Why have these rights if they're just going to get violated anyway?
2001 Mister Bush, one of the worst president that humanity has known. In the name of some conservative shit, managed to fuck up the middle east even more, to impose spying on every citizen of his own country and even on allies. He gave every argument to ammoral countries like China or Russia to do the same things. You can even wonder how he got elected two times, y consuming better than thinking... God bless america!
And also I don t think people should get patriotic with companies like that (Apple is international not American anymore) but instead if they want to help their country, buy things that are produced in the country itself regardless of the company's country of origin.
On July 30 2014 19:15 Pr0wler wrote: So the choice is NSA or the Chinese communists? Pretty hard one.
It's easy, if you live in the Chinese sphere of influence you pick NSA spying on you, if you live in the NSA sphere of influence you pick the Chinese spying on you.
I am more sadden by the fact that OP is more concerned about which country is spying on who than spying itself as an issue.
These mass surveillance will only get worse and comes in many different forms and as technology improves, more of our information will get monitored / trackable.
On July 30 2014 19:32 Zealously wrote: If memory serves, Samsung is one of the world's most corrupt companies. Further, what Huawei and Xiaomi are doing doesn't seem very different from what several other cellphone manufacturers did in the US. That others are doing the same doesn't mean that we should all up and trust these two companies, but looking to a company like Apple or Samsung and expecting a trustworthy company that will keep your mobile data private is also foolish.
Corrupt? Yes, of course. But corruption applies to all big, successful companies.
Apple was also accused of poor working conditions at Foxconn. Apple and other smartphone companies are just as corrupt as Samsung.
No big, successful company on the face of this world is not corrupt. They had to get to their position by cheating one way or another. Steve Jobs was a corrupt person, but all of this is censored by the American mainstream media. If you don't believe that the biggest companies of today are products of corruption and cheating, then you have not been exposed to the reality of the business world.
But there's a difference between corruption and hacking/theft/espionage.
The point of this thread is to discuss hacking/theft/espionage. While corruption is also an issue, that's not the main point of this thread.
No we shouldn't trust Carrier Rootkit (which is not a mobile phone manufacturer). There are many civil and criminal lawsuits that have been launched against them:
My point is the industry is such a free for all money grab that we shouldn't trust anybody, and no-one should be under the illusion that their mobile data is in any way safe or private. Frankly if my data is being sent to someone else i wouldn't care whether it was the manufacturer of the phone or some third party developer, i would be equally as pissed off.
Sending personal/business/government data of American users to the Chinese Communist Party presents a huge security threat to the USA. This is the primary concern.
You have got to be kidding me.
How is this any different than the USA getting all this information unlawfully from all of its supposed allies?
If you're referring to the NSA, then the NSA pertains to mainly within US borders.
So chinese internet companies are doing for the chinese government what us-american internet companies are (wished to be) doing for the us-american government?
As written in the article : "Rumor: Xiaomi RedMi Note Accused Of Sending Personal Data To Chinese Servers"
We'd better spread this rumor fast so we can alert the consumer to buy products from the good companies (those where it's not a rumor but a fact that they send personal data to remote servers)
As long as 99% of mobile phones are made in China, good luck choosing a brand over another. If you dont want your personal data to be stolen, get a dumbphone and use for its purpose...to talk.
This thread is ironic but I'd rather send my data to the NSA than to a Chinese company where it may or may not be used for identity theft
That said we don't even know if the data on these phones is being used for identity theft, just that it's theoretically possible... and it's theoretically possible that the NSA could use my information for identity theft as well
Personally I'm a little conflicted about the issue. The information that we put through, it may or may not be stored and it may or may not be processed for screening. And disregarding the ethics, I think it is inevitable that at one point, it will be stored and it will be processed. But going back to the ethics, if you ever troubleshoot anything with your ISP, you'd quickly realise they can know whatever you are doing. My ISP at one point sent e-mails based on the contents of my download. Now this obviously isn't happening everywhere in the world, but for some of us it is already happening much closer. And is there really a breach of privacy? Hard to say, considering we are using their services, their bandwidth, and their systems.
On July 30 2014 17:54 AutoEngineer wrote: This is pretty big.
Huawei and now Xiaomi are sending user data to Chinese servers which are of course linked to the Chinese Communist Party, or even worse, hacking, identity theft, credit card theft, etc the list goes on. I also wouldn't trust any other Chinese companies like Lenovo.
Huawei and Xiaomi are rising as big players in the smartphone market. Huawei, for example, ranked 3rd in Q2 2014 smartphone shipments behind Samsung and Apple. And some Americans seem to have been buying their products (uh oh).
IMO people should stick to Apple, Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC, etc... companies that can be trusted. Chinese companies can not be trusted (yet). It will take a long time, possibly decades, for Chinese companies to be free from their puppet strings organized by the Chinese government.
Xiaomi phones covertly send user data to China: report
I welcome the possibility to choose which foreign government is spying on me. For the time being I will remain with the US. I believe in long-term relationships.
So I guess it is best to use a phone from a domestic company for business to prevent industrial espionage and use a phone produced in a non allied country as your personal phone to protect you from your own government... =D
I should of bought a chinese phone instead of the LG G2 , although i like the phone . The Oppo find 7 , Xiaomi Mi3 , 4 and the One plus One are far better value for the money you spend then other overpriced phones and flagships .
Technology in China has caught up , and will probably surpass the competition in a couple of years . And if i have to choose i would rather have China spying on me then US/EU .
On July 31 2014 04:30 eScaper-tsunami wrote: Personally I'm a little conflicted about the issue. The information that we put through, it may or may not be stored and it may or may not be processed for screening. And disregarding the ethics, I think it is inevitable that at one point, it will be stored and it will be processed. But going back to the ethics, if you ever troubleshoot anything with your ISP, you'd quickly realise they can know whatever you are doing. My ISP at one point sent e-mails based on the contents of my download. Now this obviously isn't happening everywhere in the world, but for some of us it is already happening much closer. And is there really a breach of privacy? Hard to say, considering we are using their services, their bandwidth, and their systems.
You're right. It's like how telephone companies and the postal service had complete unfettered access to our telephone conversations and mail and it was fine because we were using their services.
If you choose to buy a Huawei or Xiaomi phone, you'll have both the NSA and the Chinese being able to access your personal info.
With the other phones like Apple, Samsung and LG, you'll only have the NSA being able to access mainly by wiretapping (not the same as identity theft/credit card theft etc).
How about I just buy the better mobile depending on my preferences, regardless which government gets my information?
Though if I had to choose, I would choose China, just to even the odds. Both are equally bad and if any one of those two parties gets too powerful over the other, it will not be pretty.
If you choose to buy a Huawei or Xiaomi phone, you'll have both the NSA and the Chinese being able to access your personal info.
With the other phones like Apple, Samsung and LG, you'll only have the NSA being able to access mainly by wiretapping (not the same as identity theft/credit card theft etc).
And the fact that they 'only' spy on you makes them trustworthy? Keep in mind that this is a rumor while the NSA debacle is confirmed.
Xiaomi Mi4 is beautiful, found out about it yesterday and I want one.
OP, you realize that Samsung, Apple etc. all get their chips from Foxconn, a Chinese company? If China or the USA or any other country wants to spy on you, buying from a different company isn't going to stop that. Only if you disconnect from the internet, or install some other operating system like (non-Android) Linux onto your phone are you going to be even mildly safe. Even then, who knows who's looking at your ISP's data?
OK, so then you just encrypt all your data. But the data has to go somewhere, and at that end point it gets decrypted. Who's reading it there? Again, if China or the USA wants your data they are going to get it. The best that we can do as small-time individuals is to encrypt all our data and use good security practices to make things harder for the people spying on us.
I don't want the USA reading my data, I don't want China reading my data, and I don't want my own country's government reading my data. But the Mi4 is verra niizeeeeeeeee looking phone for an excellent price and I plan on getting it.
On July 31 2014 21:14 Birdie wrote:OP, you realize that Samsung, Apple etc. all get their chips from Foxconn, a Chinese company?
No they don't. Please don't say anything if you don't know what you're talking about.
Samsung gets its chips from Samsung, the Exynos processors. Some international Samsung variants use Snapdragon SoCs from Qualcomm. Foxconn doesn't design any SoCs or CPUs; your claims are all incorrect. Samsung products get all their RAM and memory/flash units from Samsung or Hynix, which are Korean companies. Apple iPhones get their memory from Hynix predominantly.
Also Foxconn may manufacture SoCs for Qualcomm but they can't put Chinese structures in there for obvious reasons.
And Apple's CPUs are 100% sourced from Samsung. For the iPhone 6, TSMC, a Taiwanese (NOT Chinese) company will also contribute. But from 2015 onwards, Samsung will be the only CPU supplier to Apple because Samsung is the only company that has the technology to manufacture 14nm processors.
On July 31 2014 21:14 Birdie wrote:OP, you realize that Samsung, Apple etc. all get their chips from Foxconn, a Chinese company?
No they don't. Please don't say anything if you don't know what you're talking about.
Samsung gets its chips from Samsung, the Exynos processors. Some international Samsung variants use Snapdragon SoCs from Qualcomm. Foxconn doesn't design any SoCs or CPUs; your claims are all incorrect. Samsung products get all their RAM and memory/flash units from Samsung or Hynix, which are Korean companies. Apple iPhones get their memory from Hynix predominantly.
Also Foxconn may manufacture SoCs for Qualcomm but they can't put Chinese structures in there for obvious reasons.
And Apple's CPUs are 100% sourced from Samsung. For the iPhone 6, TSMC, a Taiwanese (NOT Chinese) company will also contribute. But from 2015 onwards, Samsung will be the only CPU supplier to Apple because Samsung is the only company that has the technology to manufacture 14nm processors.
If Taiwan is no problem, then there is no need to argue about Foxconn in the first place, since that company is also Taiwanese.
In what part of the articles you linked is there any talk of identiy theft, credit cards shenanigans or whatever else you mentioned? Heck the first one even ends on the note of:
The auto-backup feature also apparently comes disabled according to Xiaomi, so the collection of preference calculation is something that sounds like it has to be enabled by the user in the first place, which could be exactly what happened in this scenario. In short, we shouldn’t be rushing to burn anyone at the stake.
Couldn't find anything of the likes with my mighty ctrl+f skills
On August 01 2014 01:11 Toadesstern wrote: In what part of the articles you linked is there any talk of identiy theft, credit cards shenanigans or whatever else you mentioned? Heck the first one even ends on the note of:
The auto-backup feature also apparently comes disabled according to Xiaomi, so the collection of preference calculation is something that sounds like it has to be enabled by the user in the first place, which could be exactly what happened in this scenario. In short, we shouldn’t be rushing to burn anyone at the stake.
Couldn't find anything of the likes with my mighty ctrl+f skills
The sources mentions SMS and pictures being shared to the server - the implication is that with chinese goverment ties and stuff like some hacking businesses also having such ties, who knows it'll just be SMSs and pictures...
I think it's partially a valid concern, but a bit overblown and a tad sinophobic from the OP.
On August 01 2014 01:11 Toadesstern wrote: In what part of the articles you linked is there any talk of identiy theft, credit cards shenanigans or whatever else you mentioned? Heck the first one even ends on the note of:
The auto-backup feature also apparently comes disabled according to Xiaomi, so the collection of preference calculation is something that sounds like it has to be enabled by the user in the first place, which could be exactly what happened in this scenario. In short, we shouldn’t be rushing to burn anyone at the stake.
Couldn't find anything of the likes with my mighty ctrl+f skills
The sources mentions SMS and pictures being shared to the server - the implication is that with chinese goverment ties and stuff like some hacking businesses also having such ties, who knows it'll just be SMSs and pictures...
I think it's partially a valid concern, but a bit overblown and a tad sinophobic from the OP.
no, clearly you dont udnerstand. because 2 companies might be sharing data with the government in a way that has never ever been seen before, we should boycott all chinese companies.
On August 01 2014 01:11 Toadesstern wrote: In what part of the articles you linked is there any talk of identiy theft, credit cards shenanigans or whatever else you mentioned? Heck the first one even ends on the note of:
The auto-backup feature also apparently comes disabled according to Xiaomi, so the collection of preference calculation is something that sounds like it has to be enabled by the user in the first place, which could be exactly what happened in this scenario. In short, we shouldn’t be rushing to burn anyone at the stake.
Couldn't find anything of the likes with my mighty ctrl+f skills
The sources mentions SMS and pictures being shared to the server - the implication is that with chinese goverment ties and stuff like some hacking businesses also having such ties, who knows it'll just be SMSs and pictures...
I think it's partially a valid concern, but a bit overblown and a tad sinophobic from the OP.
we should boycott all chinese companies.
sounds like when the chinese were all OMG BOYCOTT JAPANESE PRODUCTS, meanwhile they dont even realize how much of their shit is of japanese technology.
Don't have a smart-phone, limit the amount of personal data I have up on the web. No facebook either.
I like my privacy. Ever since I started using the internet, it seemed obvious to me that privacy didn't exist here. That's why you put as little personal information up there as possible.
Oh no! Government has all our data, they'll pinpoint our every move and use it against us!
On a more logical note, they're drowning themselves in mostly useless information like facts about cats or how much time people have for a personal break at work and lots and lots of porn.
If the governments want to do anything reasonable with this they'll just give it to commercial companies to sift through and make a quick buck like facebook does. Anyone who is worth tracking already knows other ways of communicating that aren't through cell phones/computers.
The only major concern is when they target companies, they'll get a lot of useful information through emails about what a company is currently working on and this makes corporate espionage a lot easier, so again, the best thing for the government to do is make a quick buck and sell it to commercial groups. (That is if the government actual cares about money. The US doesn't seem to.)
If you're referring to the NSA, then the NSA pertains to mainly within US borders.
What the shit are you talking about? Have you not read any of the news concerning the US spying on European countries, particularly Germany? About wiretapping Merkel's personal phone?
Or are you so US-centric that you weren't even aware about the international outcry over NSA spying?
Relax, no need to use foul language.
Yes, the NSA did wiretap on Angela Merckel's phone but 99% of the wiretapping were within US borders.
NSA has been caught (by our services) installing wiring devices on several network equipments and phones before they were shipped to several military of civilian companies in Europe. This is pure spying and not listening to conversations. This is as or more important for OUR safety than having data stored on a chinese server. Anything on a US server isn't safe either. Why should China be different than the US, because they could steal a credit card number ? Just tell your bank when it happens.
STOP with shitting on chinese companies on account of NO PROOF, when any company you sold as "good, safe" is involved in massive, legal data leakage.... Seriously. (and I'm in IT, government level. Some armies are considering buying chinese equipment instead of US one *because* of that)
IMO the populace of TL.net is clever enough to make fun of his little post and see that my reply is a caricature on his "paranoia".
Hmm. Resorting to ad hominem remarks now, are we?
Where is your proof that I am linked to the US intelligence agency? Right, you have none.
I thought ad hominem comments weren't allowed at TeamLiquid.
I find it slightly amusing that you would talk about proof in this discussion. You've willfully ignored several posts contradicting you - either because you somehow missed them all or because you don't know how to answer them - and make sweeping generalisations and uninformed statements. xpldngmn's post isn't exactly the pinnacle of TL posting (don't miss the last line in his post), that's true, but you're making a few mistakes in Forum Discussion 101 as well.
Anyone who believes for a moment the U.S. is not using its intelligence network for Industrial Espionage and not just catching 'terrorists' is taking a very optimistic view about it, and no you shouldn't trust the Chinese more, but then again they don't spend the equivalent of the next 20 highest spending countries worth on their military budget.
These companies will mine data just like facebook is doing, but if any mass instances of identity theft would come up they would be in trouble and lose customers, something that is unprofitable and thus unlikely. They will share data with the Chinese government, but then again, so do Google, Microsoft, Apple and every other U.S. based company with the U.S. government, so really, who gives a flying fuck.
On July 31 2014 05:54 raga4ka wrote: I should of bought a chinese phone instead of the LG G2 , although i like the phone . The Oppo find 7 , Xiaomi Mi3 , 4 and the One plus One are far better value for the money you spend then other overpriced phones and flagships .
Technology in China has caught up , and will probably surpass the competition in a couple of years . And if i have to choose i would rather have China spying on me then US/EU .
Chinese has caught up because there are 1.4 billion chinese ready to buy their own smartphones. Im sorry but chinese phones will not break through western/east asian markets. They'll get hit with massive patent sues and their brand image is literally shit. The specs are all identical and i would rather choose a reliable brand like samsung or LG
On July 30 2014 17:54 AutoEngineer wrote: This is pretty big.
Huawei and now Xiaomi are sending user data to Chinese servers which are of course linked to the Chinese Communist Party, or even worse, hacking, identity theft, credit card theft, etc the list goes on. I also wouldn't trust any other Chinese companies like Lenovo.
Huawei and Xiaomi are rising as big players in the smartphone market. Huawei, for example, ranked 3rd in Q2 2014 smartphone shipments behind Samsung and Apple. And some Americans seem to have been buying their products (uh oh).
IMO people should stick to Apple, Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC, etc... companies that can be trusted. Chinese companies can not be trusted (yet). It will take a long time, possibly decades, for Chinese companies to be free from their puppet strings organized by the Chinese government.
how do shit threads by terribly biased OPs, that troll out tons of argumentative emotional drivel, ultimately advancing nobody's viewpoints, survive so long?
On July 31 2014 05:54 raga4ka wrote: I should of bought a chinese phone instead of the LG G2 , although i like the phone . The Oppo find 7 , Xiaomi Mi3 , 4 and the One plus One are far better value for the money you spend then other overpriced phones and flagships .
Technology in China has caught up , and will probably surpass the competition in a couple of years . And if i have to choose i would rather have China spying on me then US/EU .
Chinese has caught up because there are 1.4 billion chinese ready to buy their own smartphones. Im sorry but chinese phones will not break through western/east asian markets. They'll get hit with massive patent sues and their brand image is literally shit. The specs are all identical and i would rather choose a reliable brand like samsung or LG
Exactly my views.
However, Chinese brands have already penetrated the US market/other western markets and are available. If US consumers start buying them en masse, you'll have millions of American personal data being transmitted to Chinese servers, where they can do anything they want with bank accounts, personal information and other private information.
On August 01 2014 10:40 StarStruck wrote: wait a second you think these other companies can be trusted? lmao... Well the 1st reply in this thread says it all as well.
These other companies (Apple, LG, Samsung etc) can be trusted because they do not transmit personal information outside of the US or your home country. They do not pose a security threat to your or my home country. Furthermore, most capitalist, democratic countries can be trusted when dealing with personal information.
Chinese companies, on the other hand, are linked to the Chinese government, which presents a conflict of interest in the name of corporate economic greed and possible identity/credit card theft. Basically the Chinese government is using unethical behavior to allow Chinese smartphone makers to destroy Apple and Samsung's lead in the smartphone market.
Apple and Samsung are a product of capitalism. They do not rely on government puppet string intervention and this is what drives competitiveness.
Xiaomi and Huawei on the other hand, are a product of Chinese government puppet strings. High-ranking Chinese government officials have huge financial interests in these companies. That's how the majority of Chinese companies operate. I thought this was common knowledge, but I guess some of you guys are naive (no offence intended).
On August 01 2014 11:15 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: how do shit threads by terribly biased OPs, that troll out tons of argumentative emotional drivel, ultimately advancing nobody's viewpoints, survive so long?
On July 31 2014 05:54 raga4ka wrote: I should of bought a chinese phone instead of the LG G2 , although i like the phone . The Oppo find 7 , Xiaomi Mi3 , 4 and the One plus One are far better value for the money you spend then other overpriced phones and flagships .
Technology in China has caught up , and will probably surpass the competition in a couple of years . And if i have to choose i would rather have China spying on me then US/EU .
Chinese has caught up because there are 1.4 billion chinese ready to buy their own smartphones. Im sorry but chinese phones will not break through western/east asian markets. They'll get hit with massive patent sues and their brand image is literally shit. The specs are all identical and i would rather choose a reliable brand like samsung or LG
Exactly my views.
However, Chinese brands have already penetrated the US market/other western markets and are available. If US consumers start buying them en masse, you'll have millions of American personal data being transmitted to Chinese servers, where they can do anything they want with bank accounts, personal information and other private information.
On August 01 2014 10:40 StarStruck wrote: wait a second you think these other companies can be trusted? lmao... Well the 1st reply in this thread says it all as well.
These other companies (Apple, LG, Samsung etc) can be trusted because they do not transmit personal information outside of the US or your home country. They do not pose a security threat to your or my home country. Furthermore, most capitalist, democratic countries can be trusted when dealing with personal information.
Chinese companies, on the other hand, are linked to the Chinese government, which presents a conflict of interest in the name of corporate economic greed and possible identity/credit card theft. Basically the Chinese government is using unethical behavior to allow Chinese smartphone makers to destroy Apple and Samsung's lead in the smartphone market.
Apple and Samsung are a product of capitalism. They do not rely on government puppet string intervention and this is what drives competitiveness.
Xiaomi and Huawei on the other hand, are a product of Chinese government puppet strings. High-ranking Chinese government officials have huge financial interests in these companies. That's how the majority of Chinese companies operate. I thought this was common knowledge, but I guess some of you guys are naive (no offence intended).
On August 01 2014 11:15 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: how do shit threads by terribly biased OPs, that troll out tons of argumentative emotional drivel, ultimately advancing nobody's viewpoints, survive so long?
Sir, you are the biased emotional one, not me.
today: american court rules that Microsoft must allow the US government to access data held in Dublin
It's not even the company going yolo better cooperate with the us gov, its literally a court going, hey american company give us your user data. as a proud american that is kinda :/
On August 02 2014 09:07 AutoEngineer wrote: Apple and Samsung are a product of capitalism. They do not rely on government puppet string intervention and this is what drives competitiveness.
You think it costs Samsung or Apple any more to produce these products as Xiaomi, Huawei and the like? If anything, they're making them cheaper. When you buy either of their products, you're paying premium largely for their marketing.
The reason people are moving to these devices is because of capitalism. Some guys in China realized it only costs about $100 (out of my ass) to produce and assemble and ship these devices... and people will happily pay at least double that!
Who wrote that article, anyway? One has to think that it may have been written by someone with… vested interests in this debate. A brand competitor, or someone working within a foreign government (in this case likely the US).
On August 02 2014 09:07 AutoEngineer wrote: Apple and Samsung are a product of capitalism. They do not rely on government puppet string intervention and this is what drives competitiveness.
You think it costs Samsung or Apple any more to produce these products as Xiaomi, Huawei and the like? If anything, they're making them cheaper. When you buy either of their products, you're paying premium largely for their marketing.
The reason people are moving to these devices is because of capitalism. Some guys in China realized it only costs about $100 (out of my ass) to produce and assemble and ship these devices... and people will happily pay at least double that!
Yep the profit margin on the iphones are INSANE. Something like 65-75% depending on the source you look at. Basically the $650 iphone flagship models of the time only costs about $200 to make and Apple fucks you hard with its fat dick that is the $450 profit.
Competition benefits YOU as a consumer. It's one thing to demand transparent business practices, but it's another to blindly declare your allegiance with the "American Brands" (ironically the largest share of the iphone's profits goes to Germany, and Samsung is of course a conglomerate based in... South Korea) and make a mental note not to ever buy anything Chinese in the smartphone market.
On July 31 2014 05:54 raga4ka wrote: I should of bought a chinese phone instead of the LG G2 , although i like the phone . The Oppo find 7 , Xiaomi Mi3 , 4 and the One plus One are far better value for the money you spend then other overpriced phones and flagships .
Technology in China has caught up , and will probably surpass the competition in a couple of years . And if i have to choose i would rather have China spying on me then US/EU .
Chinese has caught up because there are 1.4 billion chinese ready to buy their own smartphones. Im sorry but chinese phones will not break through western/east asian markets. They'll get hit with massive patent sues and their brand image is literally shit. The specs are all identical and i would rather choose a reliable brand like samsung or LG
I'm sorry but economic market forces are stronger than any biases you might have; see the first part of my post. The fact of the matter is that Xiaomi and Huawei phones are already gaining a foothold; I see quite a few people carrying them at work.
Also, your diction choice of the word "reliable" intrigues me; what exactly is it about an LG phone that is more reliable than a Xiaomi one?
I like how you think Huawei aren't also multinational corporations - they may have ties to the Chinese government, but then a lot of companies do. But they operate globally.
If you think the make or model of phone is indicative of who is spying where, you're also out of your mind. The NSA doesn't care what phone you have, because they are pulling it out of the networks. Your phone is irrelevant.
Oh, I should mention that the first part of this post is in part because when I walk out my door, if I look to the left, I can see the Huawei building. (It shares the building with another company, but their sign faces this way.)
There is a lot of globalism in the entire supply chain and manufacturing industries - parts going everywhere, assembly and pre-assembly taking place in different places; although a lot of final assembly does take place in China.
No we shouldn't trust Carrier Rootkit (which is not a mobile phone manufacturer). There are many civil and criminal lawsuits that have been launched against them:
My point is the industry is such a free for all money grab that we shouldn't trust anybody, and no-one should be under the illusion that their mobile data is in any way safe or private. Frankly if my data is being sent to someone else i wouldn't care whether it was the manufacturer of the phone or some third party developer, i would be equally as pissed off.
Sending personal/business/government data of American users to the Chinese Communist Party presents a huge security threat to the USA. This is the primary concern.
You have got to be kidding me.
How is this any different than the USA getting all this information unlawfully from all of its supposed allies?
I hope you know this a quite a different circumstance. Good attempt at justifying their actions though.
At least I know what to buy if I don't want to be spied on by American Govt and companies xD
On August 02 2014 09:07 AutoEngineer wrote:
These other companies (Apple, LG, Samsung etc) can be trusted because they do not transmit personal information outside of the US or your home country. They do not pose a security threat to your or my home country. Furthermore, most capitalist, democratic countries can be trusted when dealing with personal information.
= Most bullshit, biased post EVER. You have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about, and that's coming from an IT security guy working for a european government :-D The US or our countries, not posing security threats ? Capitalism can be trusted when dealing with personal info ????????!!!!! LOL
Hey, spying is fine guy, we just won't steal your credit card info ! Just know and use everything else that happens in your life !
Google and now Facebook are sending user data to US servers which are of course linked to the American National Security Agency, or even worse, hacking, identity theft, credit card theft, etc the list goes on. I also wouldn't trust any other American companies like Microsoft.
Oh, sorry, thought I was in one of the threads about the Snowden revelations. Seriously, the sentence
IMO people should stick to Apple, Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC, etc... companies that can be trusted.
On August 03 2014 07:00 ACrow wrote: This is pretty big.
Google and now Facebook are sending user data to US servers which are of course linked to the American National Security Agency, or even worse, hacking, identity theft, credit card theft, etc the list goes on. I also wouldn't trust any other American companies like Microsoft.
Oh, sorry, thought I was in one of the threads about the Snowden revelations. Seriously, the sentence
Google has a big app store for android stuff. They have shitloads of credit card informations. No idea about Facebook. And noone knows what the NSA does with your data since it's all secret.
The point being made is that you are talking nonsense, and are for some reason trying to instill fear of chinese companies while very much proposing that Samsung and Apple are the best companies in history and everyone should buy their phones. It is not very obvious WHO pays you right now, but it is very obvious that posting this bullshit is your job and SOMEONE pays you, because noone else shares your ridiculous opinions.
No we shouldn't trust Carrier Rootkit (which is not a mobile phone manufacturer). There are many civil and criminal lawsuits that have been launched against them:
My point is the industry is such a free for all money grab that we shouldn't trust anybody, and no-one should be under the illusion that their mobile data is in any way safe or private. Frankly if my data is being sent to someone else i wouldn't care whether it was the manufacturer of the phone or some third party developer, i would be equally as pissed off.
Sending personal/business/government data of American users to the Chinese Communist Party presents a huge security threat to the USA. This is the primary concern.
You have got to be kidding me.
How is this any different than the USA getting all this information unlawfully from all of its supposed allies?
Agreed. People are making it a bigger deal than it needs to be. It's not ok, but it's been happening for a while, it seems to be drawing more attention because it's China.
On August 03 2014 07:00 ACrow wrote: This is pretty big.
Google and now Facebook are sending user data to US servers which are of course linked to the American National Security Agency, or even worse, hacking, identity theft, credit card theft, etc the list goes on. I also wouldn't trust any other American companies like Microsoft.
Oh, sorry, thought I was in one of the threads about the Snowden revelations. Seriously, the sentence
IMO people should stick to Apple, Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC, etc... companies that can be trusted.
made me literally lol.
Google and Facebook have user credit card information? That's news to me.
The NSA does not use personal information for corporate or theft purposes.
Wait... you never heard of google play? Which rock have you been living under...
On August 04 2014 01:25 a_flayer wrote: Riiight... I'm getting an open source phone next, I guess.
So Android? lol
No, an open source phone. I don't think the google software (nor the LG software - I have an LG phone) is open source. I can't remove either of them from my phone. Maybe if I jump through hoops I can remove the software, but I dont like hoops. I mean a fully open source phone where I determine which software is installed.
why would the chinese government make companies more likely to do shit like credit card theft and fraud? I mean wtf dude, if anything the involvement of the chinese government would make anything like that much less likely to happen, because the money involved in randomly stealing money from some accounts like that is dwarfed by the money lost by the PR disaster this would lead to. The bigger the company, the less likely they are to be involved in small-scale scams that fuck over the average consumer, because the risk/reward potential is really terrible.
On August 04 2014 01:25 a_flayer wrote: Riiight... I'm getting an open source phone next, I guess.
So Android? lol
No, an open source phone. I don't think the google software (nor the LG software - I have an LG phone) is open source. I can't remove either of them from my phone. Maybe if I jump through hoops I can remove the software, but I dont like hoops. I mean a fully open source phone where I determine which software is installed.
No such thing exists at this time. Not while every phone's baseband processor continues to run closed-source and proprietary firmware. (At least as far as I'm aware)
Then even after that, there's still the SIM card...
On August 04 2014 01:25 a_flayer wrote: Riiight... I'm getting an open source phone next, I guess.
So Android? lol
No, an open source phone. I don't think the google software (nor the LG software - I have an LG phone) is open source. I can't remove either of them from my phone. Maybe if I jump through hoops I can remove the software, but I dont like hoops. I mean a fully open source phone where I determine which software is installed.
That is currently impossible. All modern phone hardware requires closed source driver software.
On August 04 2014 01:25 a_flayer wrote: Riiight... I'm getting an open source phone next, I guess.
So Android? lol
No, an open source phone. I don't think the google software (nor the LG software - I have an LG phone) is open source. I can't remove either of them from my phone. Maybe if I jump through hoops I can remove the software, but I dont like hoops. I mean a fully open source phone where I determine which software is installed.
No such thing exists at this time. Not while every phone's baseband processor continues to run closed-source and proprietary firmware. (At least as far as I'm aware)
Then even after that, there's still the SIM card...
Yeah, device drivers are proprietary but you can get a phone with an entirely open source basecode by buying any decent android phone with a solid modding community. You just have to flash a custom rom and not install the google apps package, and then it won't send any information to anything you didn't personally improve.
It's pretty damn impractical because you'd have no access to the play store but its quite possible if you're that concerned.
On August 03 2014 21:52 Simberto wrote: Google has a big app store for android stuff. They have shitloads of credit card informations. No idea about Facebook. And noone knows what the NSA does with your data since it's all secret.
The point being made is that you are talking nonsense, and are for some reason trying to instill fear of chinese companies while very much proposing that Samsung and Apple are the best companies in history and everyone should buy their phones. It is not very obvious WHO pays you right now, but it is very obvious that posting this bullshit is your job and SOMEONE pays you, because noone else shares your ridiculous opinions.
Yeah just because I'm against Chinese government's big business means I must work for either Apple or Samsung.
On August 03 2014 21:52 Simberto wrote: Google has a big app store for android stuff. They have shitloads of credit card informations. No idea about Facebook. And noone knows what the NSA does with your data since it's all secret.
The point being made is that you are talking nonsense, and are for some reason trying to instill fear of chinese companies while very much proposing that Samsung and Apple are the best companies in history and everyone should buy their phones. It is not very obvious WHO pays you right now, but it is very obvious that posting this bullshit is your job and SOMEONE pays you, because noone else shares your ridiculous opinions.
Yeah just because I'm against Chinese government's big business means I must work for either Apple or Samsung.
I don't see how that makes any logical sense.
It's an inference to explain your unusual behavior about this subject. The people who explain why you're wrong, you ignore all their posts and only reply to the guys who have no patience to rebut you again so call you an astroturfer. Yet somehow on page 4 you have technical knowledge of manufacturing. It's fine if you have these fears about China or something but trying to make it look like they're rooted in fact is sophistry.
On August 03 2014 07:00 ACrow wrote: This is pretty big.
Google and now Facebook are sending user data to US servers which are of course linked to the American National Security Agency, or even worse, hacking, identity theft, credit card theft, etc the list goes on. I also wouldn't trust any other American companies like Microsoft.
Oh, sorry, thought I was in one of the threads about the Snowden revelations. Seriously, the sentence
IMO people should stick to Apple, Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC, etc... companies that can be trusted.
made me literally lol.
Google and Facebook have user credit card information? That's news to me.
The NSA does not use personal information for corporate or theft purposes.
You don't know what the NSA does because they are classified with more layers than a wedding cake. I know that you can file for instance a class action lawsuit against a company, or have an insider blow the whistle without political persecution. That doesn't work against the NSA.
I'm not a telecom expert but I know a picture of a connection to an IP address in CLOSE_WAIT is not a fucking smoking gun of Red treachery.
I mean some parts are just laughable... Chinese companies are run with "corporate greed" but for Apple and Samsung you think it's capitalist virtue. Then throw in "security threat" like the President is texting nuclear codes on a Redmi Note. Your audience here is too shrewd to fall for pre-war buzzwords like that.
And identity theft here is an accusation you've made with no evidence at all. You just fucking invented it. The actual article claims (without evidence, and none of the articles cite the original Hong Kong guy where the proof would be) that text messages and photos were being logged. Not that your bank account was being stolen to finance accounts for a WoW gold farm or whatever else you can come up with that threatens US security.
Like Drone explained earlier, the risks and rewards aren't balanced for this to make sense, especially as you have no evidence. Remember the guy a while ago who claimed Google AdSense was stealing from accounts? It doesn't add up. Financial institutions have fraud departments, they tend not to like it when people steal their money. Huge companies and petty bank fraud, these things aren't in proportion and with (again) a lack of any evidence, your skepticism should range from wild to rabid... unless you have a dog in this fight and are making random shit up because you don't like "communism" and "security threats."
Lol just don't use Google app - Android phones all use Google app and if you choose not to use it you won't get your info stolen. I have OnePlus One and it's better than HTC One in my opinion at half price - money isn't a decider for me but my One is also more powerful than HTC or any other Android at this moment. Only problem is battery life ain't long but hey it's same with most smartphones - 1 day and charge plus invite system makes it hard to get but I waited 1 month to get an invite to buy phone. Mean my Chinese OnePlus One 64GB 2.5 Quad, 13 MP camera, 3GB Ram costs 60% less than IPhone 16 GB, Dual 1.3, 8 MB camera, 1GB Ram. I could live without using my Chinese phone for purchasing anything through internet. If you can afford a smartphone than buy a PC with protection software and sleep well. Chinese do lie about their products but it's business and everyone else does - like OnePlus One lied about stereo speakers and same was done by Apple etc etc etc. I never use my credit card through smartphone anyway so it ain't an issue for me. I never used it on Samsung or HTC or Iphone - alway used my PC for banking, eBay and Amazon etc.
This thread was flawed to begin with, and I don't think it's going to go anywhere better in the future. If you want to make a thread on TL in the future, AutoEngineer, please do your best to leave your significant biases out of it.
EPT
