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Hi
I write this post because I am really frustrated about current game state.
I have noticed many issues with current game and I'd like you to tell me if I am wrong or not.
1. Starting hand cards
I really would like to be able to choose which cards I'd like to start with.
Many times I got 5/6/7 starting hand, so I had to change every card and draw some other - the result was that I got 4/6/7 with same cards as 6 and 7 as well. Its not like I got only 5,6,7 cards in deck. Got many 2 mana cards, and my decks mana curves are well balanced. Drafting scenarios like this really favors aggro players or miracle rogues, when there is almost non high cost cards. I would rather want to draft endless times until drafting time is over or got starting cards pool limited to 4 mana max.
Its imbalanced when u meet druid enemy, who got roll coin, 2 innervate, yeti starting hand and u can do shit to stop him because your cheapest first card is 4 mana ...
2. Arena cards drafting
Ok I know arena is random etc. I know u can pwn 12-0 with average card picks, u just need synergize them well etc. My problem with arena drafting is that its just too random.
First of all every player should draft cards from same random card pool (probably changing every day) + some basic hero cards. There also should be limits like 2 cards maximum like they are in normal constructed games scenarios.
Situations like - your enemy got 4 ice lance cards + frostbolt, while u got 1 fireball should not exsist.
It would be cool if I know my enemy is drafting from same card pool so I wont be surprised by situations I cannot win. (2x antonidas while u dont have single legend, yes I know u dont need legends to win)
Also I would like to have ability to change my choosen cards any moment for other 2 cards that were available to choose. So when I see good synergy between cards I am able to change my cards and do something less random and more skill required, and not following some kind of mana curves standards.
3. Random effects on cards
Ok I hate this one. Sometimes they are life savers. Sometimes you hate them for doing nothing or actually helping enemy. Perfect example is a mage card - arcane missisles.
Fight scenario for example:
- enemy got 4 health left
- enemy got 5 attack minion with 2 health left
- your turn
- you got 5 health and arcane missisles
I would like to choose between killing my enemy or killing ogre. But most of the times ogre is left with 1 health and enemy got 2 health or smth simillar.
There are plenty other cards that work same. They are perfect or retarded.
Mad goblin. Kill enemy minion or yours. omg ...
Its not fun when u losing because of random effects u cant control or got bad luck.
4. Constructed games cards advantage
Blizzard says that in custom games you are going to have ~50% win ratio.
Isnt it a bit naive?
Example: You are new player, you played some other card games before so you are not complete rookie. You smashing computer enemies easy. Earned your basic cards.
Lets play vs human enemy!
First game you win easy because your enemy played terrible and got low value cards in deck.
Second game you win easy too.
Third game your enemy is starting to think, but still u outplay him.
Fourth game (100% win ratio so far), you play vs enemy who got 5 rare cards giving him monstruous advantage. But hey you still manage to somehow win the game.
Fifth game. Your enemy playing bad. But he got 3 rare cards which giving him easy time in early game + legend card which kill u ez mode in late game.
What can you do to win? Nothing. You do not have resources (cards) needed to counter him.
Blizzard want you to have 50% win ratio.
The only thing u can do is to collect gold for buying cards or you can always go buy some for real money if u want to hey hey $_$
What my point is? When I read constructed strategy forums about hearthstone, there are clearly many super strong strategies, but they include very rare cards as well.
You can always say that the new player can reach legend rank with basic cards only.
But there always are going to be scenarios like your enemy simply outcarding you badly (not outplaying just got 10x better cards and u can do shit about it)
My idea is simple. I want to play vs enemies who got simillar deck value as me.
If I am using basic free cards only I want to play vs enemies who only uses basic cards too. If I am using 30 legendaries I want to play vs enemy who got legendaries only too, not vs "noobs" with 1-2 rares. I hope you see my point of view.
Just my three words about current state of the game.
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It seems like you fundamentally don't like the mechanics of a typical card game. I advise you to stop playing Hearthstone.
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Try writing to the "Hearthstone QQ Therapy" thread, it helps a lot.
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So you want to delete everything that makes the game fun ?
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This is all just whining. The only complaint of yours that might be valid is the arena drafting - maybe it could stand to be tweaked a tiny bit, but nowhere near as much as you suggest. Unfortunately the head game designer has said they don't have any plans to change anything related to arena, so tough luck I guess. If you really don't enjoy the game as much as it seems, don't play.
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Welcome to hearthstone.
Enjoy your stay or not.
Its a card game man. Maybe a little more RNG than usual, but thats the life of the card game.
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3 card mulligans are indeed extremely tiny and have a large chance to make you be stuck with all your high cost cards.
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On May 23 2014 22:18 Magixxxx wrote:
It seems like you fundamentally don't like the mechanics of a typical card game.
This.
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All of your complaints are terrible.
Knowing how and what to mulligan--playing the odds to give yourself the best shot at an optimal start--is a big part of card game strategy.
The entire point of arena is that it doesn't typically allow for optimal synergy and constructed-style strategies, forcing players to approach the game in a different way.
Most "random" cards are all about playing the odds as well. The expected value of a Mad Bomber play, for example, changes enormously based on board state--the uncertainty of the outcome is what forces players to think more carefully about the odds and decide when to take calculated risks. Compare to a card like Faerie Dragon, which is essentially completely binary in its impact, and I think a card like Mad Bomber is on the whole a better differentiator of skilled players who can better calculate the odds on the fly, and those who can't.
The entire point of CCG's is to collect cards so you can build progressively cooler and more diverse decks. This is just fundamental to how every CCG ever works. And the truth is, Hearthstone is actually a way more accessible, more level playing field than, say, MtG. It gives you a ton of cards for free to start, many of which are very good (e.g. Ooze and Yeti, class basics like Fireball and Fire Elemental, etc.) It makes it pretty easy to acquire new cards at a good rate just by playing normally and doing quests, without having to spend money. And there are many, many examples of free decks that have been successfully piloted to Legend. Compare to MtG--no one is just gonna hand you a ton of Magic cards for free when you start out, nor will they hand you another pack every couple days if you just play regularly. Your only option is to buy them outright. And MtG, like Hearthstone, has some viable cheap decks, but also many examples of rarer cards packing more punch than more common equivalents.
Basically, your post is equivalent to writing about SC2 "I am really frustrated about the current gamestate of Starcraft 2. Here are my issues:
-You have to manually manage your economy in real time. This gives too much advantage to players who practice to have good mechanics.
-Getting killed by stuff you didn't scout is annoying. They should remove Fog of War.
-You should be able to choose your race after you see your opponent and map and starting spawn locations, that way you can pick the best one.
-Having to individually click the best spot to target spells in the heat of battle introduces too many random misclick mistakes. There should be an autotarget option to make sure you get good value."
In other words, the "issues" you outline are fundamental components of the game, and if you don't like them it just sounds like you don't like CCG's.
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Yeah, maybe u guys are right. Maybe I stopped enjoy the game somehow.
Its quite hard to enjoy game when u realize:
Vox wrote:
This game is 90% netdecking 10% not making dumb moves. The best decks in the game eliminate most of the luck inherent in this card game through broken cycling and basically play themselves once you've drawn 10x more cards than your opponent (hunturd, zoo, miracle, etc)
Mathmick wrote:
The skill in Hearthstone comes from decision making. Being able to build a deck, understand how/why it works, knowing what constitutes a good play, knowing how greedy you can be etc. etc.
Obviously, in a turn-based game there is going to be very little mechanical skill involved. No fast clicking (unless you are aiming for triple boots) or anything like that. It's just the ability to analyse your options and select the best one each time.
Prozak wrote:
this game is like 70% luck. all it comes down to is whoever draws the better/timelier cards. there are very few strategic decisions to be made and even the ones you do make are usually lucky gambles that you cant tell if it was the right call until later on in the game.
Doom wrote:
The fact that full face decks can be so effective as they are is taking a huge hit on the skill factor imo. Aggro doesnt have to be full face look at zoo, its an aggro style control deck.
When a deck can go full face and ignore 90% of the minions on the board and be able to win enough to go past rank 5 theres not much skill in that sorry, that is just rush face and hope my enemy dont draw AoE or a taunt, a full face strat should not be viable ever. I say it again Aggro =/= Full face.
Just some random posts from hearthstone forums.
On May 23 2014 22:30 SkullZ9 wrote:
So you want to delete everything that makes the game fun ?
I want fair games only. Its okay to loss vs player who got same deck value as you.
But it is not okay to play vs people who decks value are just way stronger and there is nothing u can do to actually fight them.
Yeah I know I might seem frustrated at times, but this is just how it is.
I guess when I wrote this thread my intention was to get some kind of encouragement to play some more.
But u people actually tellin me to stop so ...
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There is only ONE real unfair advantage and you missed it completely.
The Coin.
Or rather, the fact that the coin counts as a spell.
I don't mind the second player getting one more usable mana and an additional card, I think that outside of Arena, that is pretty awesome balance-wise.
However, I hate the fact that it draws a card with gadgetzan and activates combos.
Feels like it makes a Rogue twice as strong.
Turn 2 SI7 with battlecry is often enough to completely turn the game in their favor if they are at all tempo oriented.
And turn 5 gadgetzan coin conceal draws TWO cards and is incredibly powerful.
Other than that I think this is fine and all your complaints are childish.
People made it to legendary with very basic decks. I managed to get to rank 3 last season with a watcher druid with no legendaries.
Also copypastaing some random posts from some random forum has 0 value, seriously.
If you want encouragement here is some:
Stop being a little bitch and deal with it.
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About things you pointed in compare to sc2.
awesomoecalypse wrote:
You have to manually manage your economy in real time. This gives too much advantage to players who practice to have good mechanics.
The more you practice the better mechanics you got. Its advantage only vs players who are not experienced enough. In competetive play there is no such term as - he was faster so he won, because every top player is equally fast.
In hearthstone the more you practice the better cards u might have or you might not have, because its all random.
This gives advantage to players which are more lucky than u.
Getting killed by stuff you didn't scout is annoying. They should remove Fog of War.
Except you can scout in fog of war, and with basic knowledge of openers u are safe.
In hearthstone u will never know what cards your enemy got, you dont even know which card you will get next turn, and cant control that aspect. So its another random aspect.
You should be able to choose your race after you see your opponent and map and starting spawn locations, that way you can pick the best one.
There is no best / bad race map spot in sc2. Every is quite equal, and every race got pros and cons which you can use at your advantage.
In hearthstone there are best decks that own ladder easy. There are even power ranks which says the current hero dominator. The player with basic deck and some rares have 0 chances vs top monthly deck player. Because his deck got too low value.
Having to individually click the best spot to target spells in the heat of battle introduces too many random misclick mistakes. There should be an autotarget option to make sure you get good value."
Except you dont need to use spells to play successfuly at top level and accuracy comes with experience.
In hearthstone you need expensive cards to be challenging opponent or you just losing easy.
Kod) wrote:
People made it to legendary with very basic decks. I managed to get to rank 3 last season with a watcher druid with no legendaries.
Yeah it might hold true that basic decks are viable. However in arena when drafting is completely random there is possibility your enemy will have much bigger deck value or some kind of combo and you cannot do anything about it because your draft was poor or just too average to competete.
You people should answer yourself some questions:
What is the best way to be competetive in this game?
Its obviously u need to win more games to play vs "better opponents".
What is the best way to win most games?
You need deck which negates luck factor of the game. So you need cards expensive cards 95% of the time.
What is the best way to get rare / legendary cards?
Its obviously arena. If you got lucky and draw good cards / make good combo, you will easy make 12-0 and get 2 card packs + gold + dust + can play another arena
While on the other hand if you make 0-3 then because your cards were average, u lost some gold and get 1 card pack.
The randomness of this arena thing will make or break your day.
So the game in current state is:
1) arena luck fest
2) slowly farming cards
3) pay 2 win
Kod) wrote:
Other than that I think this is fine and all your complaints are childish.
Whats wrong with being child? Maybe I am teenager.
There are many kids in legendary rank. Why do I have to behave as old man? I did not offend anyone while you do.
Stop being a little bitch and deal with it.
The funny thing is that most people believe that players in legendary rank are skilled players, while they most of the time just copy pasted top decks from internet and were lucky with card drops, so they could actually build top decks and win games.
<peace>
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On May 23 2014 22:11 Vipermagi wrote:
1. Starting hand cards
I really would like to be able to choose which cards I'd like to start with.
2. Arena cards drafting
My problem with arena drafting is that its just too random.
3. Random effects on cards
Its not fun when u losing because of random effects u cant control or got bad luck.
4. Constructed games cards advantage
Blizzard says that in custom games you are going to have ~50% win ratio.
If I am using basic free cards only I want to play vs enemies who only uses basic cards too. If I am using 30 legendaries I want to play vs enemy who got legendaries only too, not vs "noobs" with 1-2 rares.
Point 1: This is, as they say, not in the cards. You get some small amount of choice with your initial mulligan, with the understanding that you are still subject to chance. Drawing 3 cards from a 30 card deck will keep you from getting perfect cards every time unless all 30 are perfect starters. The situation in HS is much better than other card games like, say, poker, where you get what you get and if it doesn't work for you, you fold. You could take this approach, which would equate you to the ultra-tight poker player whose goal in the game is to win one big bet an hour (at a $10-20 limit game, for example, success is in gaining $20 in net money per hour by only playing premium hands and folding the rest outright).
Point 2: Random is random, it's a bit of a tautology. Either the draws are random, or you can pick your cards. If you can pick your cards, then Arena becomes constructed with prizes. It's like playing the lottery and asking to only be able to pick winning numbers. Arena can be fun, and can build your constructed decks much quicker than constructed-only play, but it is ruled by chance. With enough people playing, probability demands that some will draft Godly decks while I, it seems, get middling at best. It's the price you pay for the potential rewards.
Point 3: If you truly can't stand the random element, this will not go well for you, and it's beginning to snowball at this point. The thing about RNG is that it will swing your way at some point, leading to the giggleshits and musing over how Mad Bomber is amazing (this feeling will last until Bomber kills your 2-health minion and smacks you in the face for one instead of hitting either of your opponent's 1-health minions). You can minimize RNG in your decks, but you'll never remove it from the game and you can't control your opponents' decks (see point 5 for exception). RNG balances otherwise OP cards by making their effects/results less than guaranteed.
Point 4: You outlined an 80% win percentage scenario to make your point about a 50% win scenario? I don't get that. If you can't take the losses, again, this will not go well for you. I would take extra joy in win number 4 from your test case, because you outplayed a higher value hand, showing that good play can trump great cards.
As to the matchup question, start adding friends, and if you want a free cards only game you can set those up. Gameplay for rewards, whether in constructed or arena, means you play by the rules Blizz sets, and that means praying at the altar of RNGesus, using those rewards to add key cards to your decks, and hopefully feeling bad for the occasional new player who stumbles into your crosshairs.
HS has a heavy luck/chance element to it. If you can't enjoy it when it's on your side/not get too chapped when it's not, this game probably isn't going to last for you. If you can make peace with it, then welcome to the club.
Or, barring all this, you can just play Zoo 
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1. Starting hand cards
I really would like to be able to choose which cards I'd like to start with.
Honestly I stopped reading here. You obviously don't grasp the basics of a card game or you wouldn't be complaining about that.
You're lucky you get to mulligan at all, some card games don't even have that.
Imagine playing poker where everyone got to choose the cards they started with. Get the hint?
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Your first point, and the fact that you think such a thing as "Deck Value" (presumably in terms of dust?) actually affects the strength of a deck makes you lose all credibility.
Prior to kitkatz's recent tech updates, Control Warrior, the most expensive competitive deck in the game, consistently got wrecked by Zoo, the cheapest competitive deck, in terms of dust.
This isn't a "current game state" you're unhappy with. You don't like the game, and any other TCG for that matter.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
Complain in the QQ thread.
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EPT
